Although I haven't ridden on one, I understand that the new SO class
buses introduced on route 148 (Shepherds Bush to Camberwell Green) by
Transdev have leather seats. Is this for evaluation or policy for all
new buses operated by Transdev in London?

London has a long and envious record of moquette seated trains and
buses, even during the seventies when almost all other bus operators
adopted PVC seat coverings. I realise that leather seat coverings are
now making a (to my mind, unwelcome) appearance on public transport in
many parts of the country but why has Transport for London accepted
this change? Is there evidence that this is what the public wants and
what is the point on a local bus route?

To my mind, leather seats (of the kind specified in public transport)
have a fairly spartan look compared to many of the bright moquettes
used and although they may offer a "wipe-clean" surface, they are more
prone to damage by scratching or other mistreatment / vandalism.
However, they are gradually creeping into many fleets now.


Jonathan

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 13:51:44 -0700, wrote:

Although I haven't ridden on one, I understand that the new SO class
buses introduced on route 148 (Shepherds Bush to Camberwell Green) by
Transdev have leather seats. Is this for evaluation or policy for all
new buses operated by Transdev in London?

No idea.

London has a long and envious record of moquette seated trains and
buses, even during the seventies when almost all other bus operators
adopted PVC seat coverings. I realise that leather seat coverings are
now making a (to my mind, unwelcome) appearance on public transport in
many parts of the country but why has Transport for London accepted
this change? Is there evidence that this is what the public wants and
what is the point on a local bus route?

I didn't think TfL specified the seat design or covering. Some aspects
of the vehicle design are TfL specified but most is down to the operator
AFAIK.

To my mind, leather seats (of the kind specified in public transport)
have a fairly spartan look compared to many of the bright moquettes
used and although they may offer a "wipe-clean" surface, they are more
prone to damage by scratching or other mistreatment / vandalism.
However, they are gradually creeping into many fleets now.

I might be out of date but the only fleets with leather seats are all
part of the Transdev (formerly Blazefield) group - Keighley and District
(single decks), Harrogate and District (route 36) and Lancashire United
(route X43).
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 13:51:44 -0700, wrote:

Although I haven't ridden on one, I understand that the new SO class
buses introduced on route 148 (Shepherds Bush to Camberwell Green) by
Transdev have leather seats. Is this for evaluation or policy for all
new buses operated by Transdev in London?

London has a long and envious record of moquette seated trains and
buses, even during the seventies when almost all other bus operators
adopted PVC seat coverings. I realise that leather seat coverings are
now making a (to my mind, unwelcome) appearance on public transport in
many parts of the country but why has Transport for London accepted
this change? Is there evidence that this is what the public wants and
what is the point on a local bus route?

To my mind, leather seats (of the kind specified in public transport)
have a fairly spartan look compared to many of the bright moquettes
used and although they may offer a "wipe-clean" surface, they are more
prone to damage by scratching or other mistreatment / vandalism.
However, they are gradually creeping into many fleets now.

Back in the 1920s and 1930s, leather covered seats were commonplace.
Probably easier to keep clean than moquette, which seemed to be more
often used on coaches. Also more durable, although wooden-slatted
seats probably win the prize for durability. This was before plastics
which simulate leather became available.

Transdev's subsidiaries in the North have introduced leather seats on
their high-profile services, and claim that higher-spec vehicles
caused passenger numbers to rise. Could be that they have decided to
introduce the concept to their London operations.
--
Terry Harper
Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org

On 16 Sep, 22:52, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 13:51:44 -0700, wrote:

To my mind, leather seats (of the kind specified in public transport)
have a fairly spartan look compared to many of the bright moquettes
used and although they may offer a "wipe-clean" surface, they are more
prone to damage by scratching or other mistreatment / vandalism.
However, they are gradually creeping into many fleets now.

I might be out of date but the only fleets with leather seats are all
part of the Transdev (formerly Blazefield) group - Keighley and District
(single decks), Harrogate and District (route 36) and Lancashire United
(route X43).
--
Paul C

Transdev have certainly been trailblazers in this area but these
services are generally over fairly long distances into major
conurbations - route X43 into Manchester from Burnley, route 36 from
Ripon / Harrogate into Leeds etc.

National Express have specified that their operators procure coaches
with leather seats - first Scania Irizars and more recently the
Volvo / Caetano Levante model.

Other bus services I am aware of include Reading (Thames Valley Park
Shuttle), Lothian (Edinburgh Airport link), First Group in Plymouth
(park and ride), Trent Barton (their new Optare Tempos also have wood
laminate floors [1]), Arriva serving Teeside (Middlesborough
OmniCity), Travel West Midlands (new buses for premier line services).

However, most of these are premier routes or part of quality route
corridors.


Jonathan

[1] http://www.netescape-secure.co.uk/ne...seN.asp?ID=163

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007, wrote:

London has a long and envious record of moquette seated trains and
buses,

I don't think i'd ever come across the word 'moquette' until i read that.
I knew what it is, just not the name!

Anyway, here's a little website on it:

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/museumstudies/websites06/shields/

tom

--
NOW ALL ASS-KICKING UNTIL THE END

On 17 Sep, 00:51, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007, wrote:
London has a long and envious record of moquette seated trains and
buses,

I don't think i'd ever come across the word 'moquette' until i read that.
I knew what it is, just not the name!

Anyway, here's a little website on it:

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/museumstudies/websites06/shields/

tom


You could, for a while at least, buy from the LT Museum shop cushions
covered with old moquette - I'm pretty certain it was the actual
fabric that had been used on seats as opposed to a reproduction,
though thankfully it had been well cleaned!

A friend has a couple of these cushions and I hate them with a
passion! They're covered with the horrendous nightmare inducing old
luminous orange, yellow and muck brown moquette* that was used on
District and/or Circle line trains (I can't remember which stock), but
was also found on LT's Leyland Titan buses - none of which are in
still service, in London at least, thankfully.

These damn cushions instantly take me back to those horrendous slow,
trudging journeys on a trunk bus route served by Leyland Titans that I
used to make many moons ago. As I recall the ambience of those buses
was dire. Aside from the offending moquette, the rest of the nasty
decor, such as the yellow coloured ceiling that looked as if it was
yellowing further from age (perhaps it was), the side panelling and
the flooring were all truly in fitting with this scabby bus! When they
were stationary the engine turning over shook the whole bus - not in
an endearing manner ala the Routemaster, but in a distinctly jarring
manner - and courtesy of the then thoroughly laissez-faire attitude to
bus lanes at the time, and not just their enforcement but their very
existence (or lack of), the bus spent a lot of time stationary. I'm
pretty sure they used to break down a lot more often than their
counterparts of today too.

But of course this bus is now - inevitably (?) - the object of
nostalgia. See:
http://londonbuspageinexile.wordpres...20/titan-book-
progress/

You won't be surprised to hear me say good riddance!

* If you are a sadist you can take a look at this horrible moquette on
the LT Museum website here - if you're truly a sick individual then
you can follow their suggestion and use it as a tiled wallpaper for
your desktop. And if you're not sick and do this you soon will be...
http://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/76.aspx

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007, Mizter T wrote:

On 17 Sep, 00:51, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007, wrote:
London has a long and envious record of moquette seated trains and
buses,

I don't think i'd ever come across the word 'moquette' until i read that.
I knew what it is, just not the name!

* If you are a sadist you can take a look at this horrible moquette on
the LT Museum website here - if you're truly a sick individual then you
can follow their suggestion and use it as a tiled wallpaper for your
desktop. And if you're not sick and do this you soon will be...
http://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/76.aspx

Clearly sponsored by the RNIB in an effort to drive up membership.

tom

--
Got a revolution behind my eyes - We got to get up and organise

Mizter T wrote:

* If you are a sadist you can take a look at this horrible moquette on
the LT Museum website here - if you're truly a sick individual then
you can follow their suggestion and use it as a tiled wallpaper for
your desktop. And if you're not sick and do this you soon will be...
http://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/76.aspx

What are those moquettes?

These are my guesses...
1) D-Stock.
2) 1971 stock.
3) some bus.
4) Routemasters

But guesses is the operative word.

On 16 Sep, 21:51, wrote:
Although I haven't ridden on one, I understand that the new SO class
buses introduced on route 148 (Shepherds Bush to Camberwell Green) by
Transdev have leather seats. Is this for evaluation or policy for all
new buses operated by Transdev in London?

London has a long and envious record of moquette seated trains and
buses, even during the seventies when almost all other bus operators
adopted PVC seat coverings. I realise that leather seat coverings are
now making a (to my mind, unwelcome) appearance on public transport in
many parts of the country but why has Transport for London accepted
this change? Is there evidence that this is what the public wants and
what is the point on a local bus route?

To my mind, leather seats (of the kind specified in public transport)
have a fairly spartan look compared to many of the bright moquettes
used and although they may offer a "wipe-clean" surface, they are more
prone to damage by scratching or other mistreatment / vandalism.
However, they are gradually creeping into many fleets now.

Jonathan


I have ridden on one of these 148s that had leather seats today,
though I don't have any amazing revelation to recount to you about the
experience!

The seat was comfortable, but I'm not sure they were any more or less
so than a moquette fitted seat of the same design (though the design
of those seats is far better than some others, but I digress).

I suspect that the real test is what they're like in hot weather - as
leather can get a bit sticky, whilst I guess moquette is a somewhat
more breathable material. Of course we didn't have a roaring heat-wave
this summer just gone, but it looks like they're going to be a regular
meteorological fixture of the future so perhaps this'll be a more
critical issue when it comes to assessing the worthiness of leather
seats.

Regarding wear and tear - these were new seats on a new bus, so
nothing adverse was to be seen in this department.

I think I'd probably be right in suggesting that it's unlikely this is
real leather, but to be honest I didn't actually think about that
whilst on-board so I couldn't say for sure. Apart from any other
considerations, such as cost, real leather would likely attract
adverse comment from some vegans.

So, this member of the jury hereby wishes to record my current verdict
as being "don't know"!

On 20 Sep, 20:17, Mizter T wrote:
On 16 Sep, 21:51, wrote:

Although I haven't ridden on one, I understand that the new SO class
buses introduced on route 148 (Shepherds Bush to Camberwell Green) by
Transdev have leather seats. Is this for evaluation or policy for all
new buses operated by Transdev in London?


I have ridden on one of these 148s that had leather seats today,
though I don't have any amazing revelation to recount to you about the
experience!

The seat was comfortable, but I'm not sure they were any more or less
so than a moquette fitted seat of the same design (though the design
of those seats is far better than some others, but I digress).

I suspect that the real test is what they're like in hot weather - as
leather can get a bit sticky, whilst I guess moquette is a somewhat
more breathable material. Of course we didn't have a roaring heat-wave
this summer just gone, but it looks like they're going to be a regular
meteorological fixture of the future so perhaps this'll be a more
critical issue when it comes to assessing the worthiness of leather
seats.

Regarding wear and tear - these were new seats on a new bus, so
nothing adverse was to be seen in this department.

I think I'd probably be right in suggesting that it's unlikely this is
real leather, but to be honest I didn't actually think about that
whilst on-board so I couldn't say for sure. Apart from any other
considerations, such as cost, real leather would likely attract
adverse comment from some vegans.


Surely the whole point of the introduction of leather seats is that it
is real leather. If not, we are back to the seventies and the
interior of (NBC pre-1979) Leyland Nationals and the like.

I also had a ride on one of these this week - the interior is bright
and the seat design is OK. The covering isn't particularly soft or
luxurious, certainly nothing special. If someone wants to develop
comfortable travel, I'd rather have a deeper cushion than a different
seat covering.

As you say, one of the problems is the stickyness of vinyl/leather
seats in hot-weather (this is where my dislike of this comes from) -
in a car, I'm guessing most cars with leather seats would also have
air conditioning these days. Although these SO class vehicles have
extra air inlets upstairs over the front two windows, we are yet to
see how they will be in hot weather. The other problem, of course, is
that there is less friction so passengers could slip off seats in the
event of a sharp movement.

Still don't see the point.

Jonathan