What will become of the Heathrow Express with Crossrail?
 

When crossrail starts with Hex vanish? I can't see any reason for its
continued existence but what would happen to the franchise holders?
Will they get a "cut" in crossrail or will the next (or current?)
contract expire the day corssrail is due to expire?

B2003

What will become of the Heathrow Express with Crossrail?
 

"Boltar" wrote in message
ups.com...
When crossrail starts with Hex vanish? I can't see any reason for its
continued existence but what would happen to the franchise holders?
Will they get a "cut" in crossrail or will the next (or current?)
contract expire the day corssrail is due to expire?


HEx will carry on as the non-stop service, and Heathrow Connect will be
taken over by Crossrail. It's all covered on their website, where they
explain how the flyover at airport junction will be altered to provide
separate non conflicting junctions from both the fast and relief lines.

Paul

What will become of the Heathrow Express with Crossrail?
 

On Oct 6, 5:39 pm, Boltar wrote:
When crossrail starts with Hex vanish?

Heathrow Express will continue as is, with Crossrail replacing
Heathrow Connect. HEx customers already pay over the odds for a not
particularly convenient journey, and I'm sure they'll continue to.

I can't see any reason for its
continued existence but what would happen to the franchise holders?

Heathrow Express is owned and run by BAA. It isn't a franchise and
I'd imagine they have quite a long term track access agreement with
Network Rail for getting its trains to Paddington, so it can't easily
be shut down by external forces.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

What will become of the Heathrow Express with Crossrail?
 

"Boltar" wrote in message
ups.com...
When crossrail starts with Hex vanish? I can't see any reason for its
continued existence but what would happen to the franchise holders?
Will they get a "cut" in crossrail or will the next (or current?)
contract expire the day corssrail is due to expire?

They seem to have no difficulty selling an express train
in Vienna that costs twice the price and only takes 5 minutes
less than the stopper.

tim

What will become of the Heathrow Express with Crossrail?
 

On Oct 6, 6:27 pm, "tim....." wrote:
"Boltar" wrote in message

ups.com...

When crossrail starts with Hex vanish? I can't see any reason for its
continued existence but what would happen to the franchise holders?
Will they get a "cut" in crossrail or will the next (or current?)
contract expire the day corssrail is due to expire?

They seem to have no difficulty selling an express train
in Vienna that costs twice the price and only takes 5 minutes
less than the stopper.


And weekend trains to Birmingham at Virgin's weekday prices that take
longer than Chiltern.

What will become of the Heathrow Express with Crossrail?
 

MIG wrote:

And weekend trains to Birmingham at Virgin's weekday prices that take
longer than Chiltern.

Not the best time to have posted that, really! The other weekend the
resignalling of the South Midlands and the repositioning of the junctions at
Tyseley (to allow higher speeds for non-stop services) commenced. As a
result, weekend Chiltern services are only running (alternately) to Dorridge
and to Coventry, hourly, on Saturdays and to Dorridge and to Birmingham New
Street (via Coventry) on Sundays until the end of the autumn.

What will become of the Heathrow Express with Crossrail?
 

On Oct 6, 6:27 pm, "tim....." wrote:
They seem to have no difficulty selling an express train
in Vienna that costs twice the price and only takes 5 minutes
less than the stopper.

Presumably though that goes to somewhere useful. Paddington was a no-
other-choice option for Hex. When crossrail opens why would anyone pay
more to go to paddington when they could get a slightly slower train
and actually get much nearer to their destination?

B2003

What will become of the Heathrow Express with Crossrail?
 

Jack Taylor wrote:
MIG wrote:
And weekend trains to Birmingham at Virgin's weekday prices that take
longer than Chiltern.

Not the best time to have posted that, really! The other weekend the
resignalling of the South Midlands and the repositioning of the junctions at
Tyseley (to allow higher speeds for non-stop services) commenced. As a
result, weekend Chiltern services are only running (alternately) to Dorridge
and to Coventry, hourly, on Saturdays and to Dorridge and to Birmingham New
Street (via Coventry) on Sundays until the end of the autumn.

That notwithstanding, the journey times (even with the change at
Banbury, Leamington Spa or Coventry onto VT services) are *still*
comparable with Chiltern's normal timings.

Weekday Off-Peak: 2 hours 15 minutes (average)
Headline Time (18:00 ex-MYB): 1 hour 59 minutes

Saturday: 2 hours 15 minutes (average)

Sunday: 2 hours 19 minutes (average)

At present, we have the following:

Saturday (change at Coventry): 2 hours 29 minutes

Sunday (direct to New Street): 2 hours 39 minutes

So that's around 10 minutes slower on Saturdays and 20 on Sundays,
mostly (I suspect) due to the single track section between Leamington
Spa and Coventry.

Cheers,

Barry

What will become of the Heathrow Express with Crossrail?
 

"Boltar" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Oct 6, 6:27 pm, "tim....." wrote:
They seem to have no difficulty selling an express train
in Vienna that costs twice the price and only takes 5 minutes
less than the stopper.

Presumably though that goes to somewhere useful.

It goes to the same station that the other train goes to.
Which, whilst more convenient than Padd, is not ideal
for everybody.

tim

What will become of the Heathrow Express with Crossrail?
 

Mr Thant wrote:
On Oct 6, 5:39 pm, Boltar wrote:
When crossrail starts with Hex vanish?

Heathrow Express will continue as is, with Crossrail replacing
Heathrow Connect. HEx customers already pay over the odds for a not
particularly convenient journey, and I'm sure they'll continue to.

HEx customers would pay over the odds for that journey even if it took
longer than the other options. Actually sometimes it already does and
they do.
--
Michael Hoffman

What will become of the Heathrow Express with Crossrail?
 

On Oct 6, 8:45 pm, Boltar wrote:
On Oct 6, 6:27 pm, "tim....." wrote:

They seem to have no difficulty selling an express train
in Vienna that costs twice the price and only takes 5 minutes
less than the stopper.

Presumably though that goes to somewhere useful. Paddington was a no-
other-choice option for Hex. When crossrail opens why would anyone pay
more to go to paddington when they could get a slightly slower train
and actually get much nearer to their destination?


I wonder if a lot of travellers have package deals in which they've
already paid for it (not necessarily noticing how much, like the
orange juice in a large round of drinks), and would pay again to use
any other train.

What will become of the Heathrow Express with Crossrail?
 

Boltar wrote:
On Oct 6, 6:27 pm, "tim....." wrote:
They seem to have no difficulty selling an express train
in Vienna that costs twice the price and only takes 5 minutes
less than the stopper.

Presumably though that goes to somewhere useful. Paddington was a no-
other-choice option for Hex. When crossrail opens why would anyone pay
more to go to paddington when they could get a slightly slower train
and actually get much nearer to their destination?

Because they HEx has the word "express" in the name and better marketing
in general?
--
Michael Hoffman

What will become of the Heathrow Express with Crossrail?
 

"Jack Taylor" wrote
MIG wrote:

And weekend trains to Birmingham at Virgin's weekday prices that
take
longer than Chiltern.

Not the best time to have posted that, really! The other weekend
the resignalling of the South Midlands and the repositioning of the
junctions at Tyseley (to allow higher speeds for non-stop services)
commenced. As a result, weekend Chiltern services are only running
(alternately) to Dorridge and to Coventry, hourly, on Saturdays and
to Dorridge and to Birmingham New Street (via Coventry) on Sundays
until the end of the autumn.

They don't get as far as Dorridge on the Sundays. The NRT shows
alternate trains (the ones not running to Birmingham New Street) as
terminating at Leamington, but in fact they run on to Warwick
Parkway, where up trains start back from the down platform, crossing
back at Warwick.

What will become of the Heathrow Express with Crossrail?
 

Boltar wrote:
On Oct 6, 6:27 pm, "tim....." wrote:
They seem to have no difficulty selling an express train
in Vienna that costs twice the price and only takes 5 minutes
less than the stopper.

Presumably though that goes to somewhere useful. Paddington was a
no- other-choice option for Hex. When crossrail opens why would
anyone pay more to go to paddington when they could get a slightly
slower train and actually get much nearer to their destination?

Passengers using Terminal 5 may opt to use HEx for the whole journey
to/from Paddington, as Crossrail will not serve Terminal 5 on current
plans. Crossrail will serve T123 and T4, and HEx will serve T123 and
T5. Crossrail passengers travelling to T5 will need to change at T123
and take HEx to T5 (which will be free within the airport, as it is
currently between T123 and T4). This fact is disguised on the
Crossrail website as the route maps just show a "Heathrow Airport"
station without any indication of which terminals are served.

I rather doubt if this odd arrangement will actually be implemented in
10 years' time when Crossrail goes live.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

What will become of the Heathrow Express with Crossrail?
 

On Oct 6, 2:45 pm, "Jack Taylor" wrote:
MIG wrote:

And weekend trains to Birmingham at Virgin's weekday prices that take
longer than Chiltern.

Not the best time to have posted that, really! The other weekend the
resignalling of the South Midlands and the repositioning of the junctions at
Tyseley (to allow higher speeds for non-stop services) commenced. As a
result, weekend Chiltern services are only running (alternately) to Dorridge
and to Coventry, hourly, on Saturdays and to Dorridge and to Birmingham New
Street (via Coventry) on Sundays until the end of the autumn.

I'd forgotten about this!

Are there track plans available for the new Small Heath junctions?
ISTR that Tyseley was to be left (mostly) alone, with a pair of 60mph
flat chords installed at Small Heath to allow Chiltern services to
cross from the main lines to the relief lines south of Bordesley
Junction.

What will become of the Heathrow Express with Crossrail?
 

On Oct 6, 5:39 pm, Boltar wrote:
When crossrail starts with Hex vanish? I can't see any reason for its
continued existence but what would happen to the franchise holders?
Will they get a "cut" in crossrail or will the next (or current?)
contract expire the day corssrail is due to expire?

B2003

According to last nights Evening Standard Ken is going to have an
"intense conversation with BAA about this" No doubt his ability to
impose a new congestion zone around Heathrow could concentrate BAA's
mind wonderfully.

What will become of the Heathrow Express with Crossrail?
 

On 10 Oct, 07:55, Mwmbwls wrote:
On Oct 6, 5:39 pm, Boltar wrote:

When crossrail starts with Hex vanish? I can't see any reason for its
continued existence but what would happen to the franchise holders?
Will they get a "cut" in crossrail or will the next (or current?)
contract expire the day corssrail is due to expire?

B2003

According to last nights Evening Standard Ken is going to have an
"intense conversation with BAA about this" No doubt his ability to
impose a new congestion zone around Heathrow could concentrate BAA's
mind wonderfully.

Do we know if a journey on Crossrail from heathrow is going to be
cheaper than HEX?

I bet that they will charge a premium to travel on Crossrail and I
cant see Ken allowing Crossrail to be used on a normal zonal
Travelcard. (1-6 for Heathrow)

Most travellers will chose Crossrail to travel from Heathrow as their
ultimate destination in all likelyhood is not Paddington.

So i see the possbility HEX being gradually phased out as demand
dwindles.

A.

What will become of the Heathrow Express with Crossrail?
 

On 12 Oct, 12:00, Londoncityslicker
wrote:
On 10 Oct, 07:55, Mwmbwls wrote:

On Oct 6, 5:39 pm, Boltar wrote:

When crossrail starts with Hex vanish? I can't see any reason for its
continued existence but what would happen to the franchise holders?
Will they get a "cut" in crossrail or will the next (or current?)
contract expire the day corssrail is due to expire?

B2003

According to last nights Evening Standard Ken is going to have an
"intense conversation with BAA about this" No doubt his ability to
impose a new congestion zone around Heathrow could concentrate BAA's
mind wonderfully.

Do we know if a journey on Crossrail from heathrow is going to be
cheaper than HEX?

No decisions about fares will have been taken yet, given that
Crossrail won't open until at least 2018. Bear in mind that the branch
off the Great Western mainline to Heathrow is owned by BAA and isn't a
part of the 'National Rail network', so BAA might have to be placated.

Nonetheless the question of fares is a good one.

The Mayor has already said he will hold "vigorous" talks with BAA
about the future of HEx, so I'd imagine those talks will cover fares
and whether there should continue to be a premium-priced Express
service to/from Heathrow.


I bet that they will charge a premium to travel on Crossrail and I
cant see Ken allowing Crossrail to be used on a normal zonal
Travelcard. (1-6 for Heathrow)

I'd consider it highly likely that, apart from Heathrow, Crossrail
will adopt the same zonal fares system as for the Underground.

When it comes to Crossrail's fares to/from Heathrow then a premium
fare might be charged. Two reasons immediately spring to mind...

(1) BAA requiring this to be the case, given that they own the
Heathrow branch (see above)
(2) TfL wanting to even out demand between Crossrail and the
Piccadilly line.

The second point might well be key - if there was no price
differential then many passengers might simply switch to Crossrail,
which might end up too busy whilst the Piccadilly line went
underutilised.

Charging more for Crossrail would balance out passenger load somewhat.

All that said I can't imagine that TfL would be keen on having a
premium fare priced at the level of HEx.

Much work regarding passenger forecasts and other research, as well as
negotiating between TfL and BAA, lies ahead.


Most travellers will chose Crossrail to travel from Heathrow as their
ultimate destination in all likelyhood is not Paddington.

So i see the possbility HEX being gradually phased out as demand
dwindles.

It's hard to predict what will happen. Bear in mind that Crossrail is
a stopping service and will call at six stations between Paddington
and Heathrow (that's one more station than the existing Heathrow
Connect stopping service between Paddington and Heathrow).

There's also a certain prestige about having an Express service that
whisks people into central London, even if Paddington is on the edge
of central London.

Whether, though, there would remain a market for HEx after Crossrail
begins is hard to say. Arguably, it's really BAA's decision as they
would appear to have a pretty solid long-term track access contract
with Network Rail for HEx (a service which they own and operate
through a subsidiary company).

Operationally, it might make it easier for Crossrail if HEx wasn't
also operating in the Heathrow tunnels.

We shall see what happens.

What will become of the Heathrow Express with Crossrail?
 

On 12 Oct, 18:26, Mizter T wrote:
On 12 Oct, 12:00, Londoncityslicker
wrote:





On 10 Oct, 07:55, Mwmbwls wrote:

On Oct 6, 5:39 pm, Boltar wrote:

When crossrail starts with Hex vanish? I can't see any reason for its
continued existence but what would happen to the franchise holders?
Will they get a "cut" in crossrail or will the next (or current?)
contract expire the day corssrail is due to expire?

B2003

According to last nights Evening Standard Ken is going to have an
"intense conversation with BAA about this" No doubt his ability to
impose a new congestion zone around Heathrow could concentrate BAA's
mind wonderfully.

Do we know if a journey on Crossrail from heathrow is going to be
cheaper than HEX?

No decisions about fares will have been taken yet, given that
Crossrail won't open until at least 2018. Bear in mind that the branch
off the Great Western mainline to Heathrow is owned by BAA and isn't a
part of the 'National Rail network', so BAA might have to be placated.

Nonetheless the question of fares is a good one.

The Mayor has already said he will hold "vigorous" talks with BAA
about the future of HEx, so I'd imagine those talks will cover fares
and whether there should continue to be a premium-priced Express
service to/from Heathrow.



I bet that they will charge a premium to travel on Crossrail and I
cant see Ken allowing Crossrail to be used on a normal zonal
Travelcard. (1-6 for Heathrow)

I'd consider it highly likely that, apart from Heathrow, Crossrail
will adopt the same zonal fares system as for the Underground.

When it comes to Crossrail's fares to/from Heathrow then a premium
fare might be charged. Two reasons immediately spring to mind...

(1) BAA requiring this to be the case, given that they own the
Heathrow branch (see above)
(2) TfL wanting to even out demand between Crossrail and the
Piccadilly line.

The second point might well be key - if there was no price
differential then many passengers might simply switch to Crossrail,
which might end up too busy whilst the Piccadilly line went
underutilised.

Charging more for Crossrail would balance out passenger load somewhat.

All that said I can't imagine that TfL would be keen on having a
premium fare priced at the level of HEx.

Much work regarding passenger forecasts and other research, as well as
negotiating between TfL and BAA, lies ahead.



Most travellers will chose Crossrail to travel from Heathrow as their
ultimate destination in all likelyhood is not Paddington.

So i see the possbility HEX being gradually phased out as demand
dwindles.

It's hard to predict what will happen. Bear in mind that Crossrail is
a stopping service and will call at six stations between Paddington
and Heathrow (that's one more station than the existing Heathrow
Connect stopping service between Paddington and Heathrow).

There's also a certain prestige about having an Express service that
whisks people into central London, even if Paddington is on the edge
of central London.

Whether, though, there would remain a market for HEx after Crossrail
begins is hard to say. Arguably, it's really BAA's decision as they
would appear to have a pretty solid long-term track access contract
with Network Rail for HEx (a service which they own and operate
through a subsidiary company).

Operationally, it might make it easier for Crossrail if HEx wasn't
also operating in the Heathrow tunnels.

We shall see what happens.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Don't forget Crossrail will start & finish in the West at Maidenhead.

Therefore another chord from the West will be needed (presumably at
Airport Junction) to take Crossrail into / out of Heathrow. It will
presumably depend on how far Oyster has been extended westward from Z6
by FGW as to whether Oyster fares will be valid? I can't see ticket
examiners managing to check all tickets between the mainline &
Heathrow, so they'll need to develop some form of plan....

Also, while on the subject - is everyone aware that Crossrail will
require a two week closure of Paddington while the new station there
is constructed? I understand all local services during that time will
terminate at Ealing Broadway, while only some HSTs will go to
Waterloo.

Also, only the relief lines will be operating twixt 27th December and
2nd January, while Airport Junction is reconfigured this year.

What will become of the Heathrow Express with Crossrail?
 

"Chris" wrote in message
oups.com...

Don't forget Crossrail will start & finish in the West at Maidenhead.

Therefore another chord from the West will be needed (presumably at
Airport Junction) to take Crossrail into / out of Heathrow. It will
presumably depend on how far Oyster has been extended westward from Z6
by FGW as to whether Oyster fares will be valid? I can't see ticket
examiners managing to check all tickets between the mainline &
Heathrow, so they'll need to develop some form of plan....


Crossrail will only go to Heathrow from the east, at the modified Airport
Junction. This is covered at length in Crossrail's online resources, and
many other previous threads here.

Also, while on the subject - is everyone aware that Crossrail will
require a two week closure of Paddington while the new station there
is constructed? I understand all local services during that time will
terminate at Ealing Broadway, while only some HSTs will go to
Waterloo.

Don't you mean 'a two week closure of Paddington....' at some time during
the new station's build period, which is likely to be about 6 years all
together...

Paul S