What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

Or perhaps I should say 'what was the motivation for building it'?

I only ask because London Bridge is a mere ten minute stroll from
Cannon Street. Presumably Cannon Street trains have always passed
through London Bridge (apart from those heading towards Charing
Cross). So why go to the expense of building viaducts from the Borough
Market junction, bridging the river, and building a terminus station
at Cannon Street when it's virtually within spitting distance of a
much more significant station at London Bridge? Was it perhaps
intended to extend the line further north at some point?

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

On Oct 18, 10:46 pm, "Obadiah Jones"
wrote:
Or perhaps I should say 'what was the motivation for building it'?

I only ask because London Bridge is a mere ten minute stroll from
Cannon Street. Presumably Cannon Street trains have always passed
through London Bridge (apart from those heading towards Charing
Cross). So why go to the expense of building viaducts from the Borough
Market junction, bridging the river, and building a terminus station
at Cannon Street when it's virtually within spitting distance of a
much more significant station at London Bridge? Was it perhaps
intended to extend the line further north at some point?

London Bridge is only significant because so many trains go there or
through there. Nearly everyone arriving there by train immediately
goes somewhere else, by another train, by Underground or by bus.

Cannon Street is in the City, where many people actually need to go.
It also has room for trains to turn round, which three platforms at
London Bridge would not be adequate for.

You might as well suggest that all trains terminate at Clapham
Junction instead of going to Victoria or Waterloo, since it's a more
significant station than either by the same definition.

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007, MIG wrote:

On Oct 18, 10:46 pm, "Obadiah Jones"
wrote:

Or perhaps I should say 'what was the motivation for building it'?

I only ask because London Bridge is a mere ten minute stroll from
Cannon Street. Presumably Cannon Street trains have always passed
through London Bridge (apart from those heading towards Charing Cross).
So why go to the expense of building viaducts from the Borough Market
junction, bridging the river, and building a terminus station at Cannon
Street when it's virtually within spitting distance of a much more
significant station at London Bridge? Was it perhaps intended to extend
the line further north at some point?

London Bridge is only significant because so many trains go there or
through there. Nearly everyone arriving there by train immediately
goes somewhere else, by another train, by Underground or by bus.

But as Obadiah pointed out, even if you transfer to leg-power at London
Bridge, it's only a slightly longer walk to anywhere you want to get to. A
viaduct, bridge and stations purely to save a few minutes' walk seems a
bit generous. Could they not just have laid on omnibuses?

Mind you, i think these things were a lot cheaper back then. They must
have been, given the amount of railway that was built.

tom

--
3364147 Complete space vehicles (excluding propulsion systems)

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

Obadiah Jones wrote:
Or perhaps I should say 'what was the motivation for building it'?

I only ask because London Bridge is a mere ten minute stroll from
Cannon Street. Presumably Cannon Street trains have always passed
through London Bridge (apart from those heading towards Charing
Cross). So why go to the expense of building viaducts from the
Borough Market junction, bridging the river, and building a
terminus station at Cannon Street when it's virtually within
spitting distance of a much more significant station at London
Bridge? Was it perhaps intended to extend the line further north at
some point?

Cannon Street station opened in 1866, and for the next 50 years most
trains were reversed there before continuing to Charing Cross (opened
1864). H.P. White wrote in 1963; "In 1904 between 5 and 6 p.m. on
weekdays 25 down trains and almost as many up passed through London
Bridge and all but 2 or 3 had to be reversed in Cannon Street." And
these were all steam-hauled! In those days, Cannon Street had more
passengers than Charing Cross, so the demand was clearly there.

Also, the (horse-drawn) traffic congestion along the Strand and Fleet
Street in the 1870s and 80s was such that a shuttle service at 5-minute
intervals was run on an additional track between Charing Cross and
Cannon Street. (The Circle Line wasn't completed through Cannon Street
until 1884.)

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

"Obadiah Jones" wrote in message
...
Or perhaps I should say 'what was the motivation for building it'?

I only ask because London Bridge is a mere ten minute stroll from Cannon
Street. Presumably Cannon Street trains have always passed through London
Bridge (apart from those heading towards Charing Cross). So why go to the
expense of building viaducts from the Borough Market junction, bridging
the river, and building a terminus station at Cannon Street when it's
virtually within spitting distance of a much more significant station at
London Bridge? Was it perhaps intended to extend the line further north at
some point?



Built back when they were seperate and rival railway companies.
Cannon st station opened 1866.

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

On Oct 18, 11:47 pm, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007, MIG wrote:
On Oct 18, 10:46 pm, "Obadiah Jones"
wrote:

Or perhaps I should say 'what was the motivation for building it'?

I only ask because London Bridge is a mere ten minute stroll from
Cannon Street. Presumably Cannon Street trains have always passed
through London Bridge (apart from those heading towards Charing Cross).
So why go to the expense of building viaducts from the Borough Market
junction, bridging the river, and building a terminus station at Cannon
Street when it's virtually within spitting distance of a much more
significant station at London Bridge? Was it perhaps intended to extend
the line further north at some point?

London Bridge is only significant because so many trains go there or
through there. Nearly everyone arriving there by train immediately
goes somewhere else, by another train, by Underground or by bus.

But as Obadiah pointed out, even if you transfer to leg-power at London
Bridge, it's only a slightly longer walk to anywhere you want to get to. A
viaduct, bridge and stations purely to save a few minutes' walk seems a
bit generous. Could they not just have laid on omnibuses?

Mind you, i think these things were a lot cheaper back then. They must
have been, given the amount of railway that was built.

tom


Things would have been very different. The current road bridge and
the Embankment didn't exist yet in 1860-something, and neither did the
District Line.

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 00:49:24 -0700, MIG wrote:

On Oct 18, 11:47 pm, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007, MIG wrote:
On Oct 18, 10:46 pm, "Obadiah Jones"
wrote:

Or perhaps I should say 'what was the motivation for building it'?

I only ask because London Bridge is a mere ten minute stroll from
Cannon Street. Presumably Cannon Street trains have always passed
through London Bridge (apart from those heading towards Charing Cross).
So why go to the expense of building viaducts from the Borough Market
junction, bridging the river, and building a terminus station at Cannon
Street when it's virtually within spitting distance of a much more
significant station at London Bridge? Was it perhaps intended to extend
the line further north at some point?

London Bridge is only significant because so many trains go there or
through there. Nearly everyone arriving there by train immediately
goes somewhere else, by another train, by Underground or by bus.

But as Obadiah pointed out, even if you transfer to leg-power at London
Bridge, it's only a slightly longer walk to anywhere you want to get to. A
viaduct, bridge and stations purely to save a few minutes' walk seems a
bit generous. Could they not just have laid on omnibuses?

Mind you, i think these things were a lot cheaper back then. They must
have been, given the amount of railway that was built.

tom


Things would have been very different. The current road bridge and
the Embankment didn't exist yet in 1860-something, and neither did the
District Line.

Though there has been a bridge there since something like 800AD, if you
have a look at London Bridge (the bridge) in the rush hour, you will see
hordes of commuters walking between the City and London Bridge railway
station.

Robin

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

On Oct 18, 10:46 pm, "Obadiah Jones"
wrote:

Or perhaps I should say 'what was the motivation for building it'?

I seem to remember that the las remaining boat train to France left
from Cannon Street, either until quite recently - or it still does.

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

On 18 Oct, 23:03, MIG wrote:
London Bridge is only significant because so many trains go there or
through there. Nearly everyone arriving there by train immediately
goes somewhere else, by another train, by Underground or by bus.

I wonder what the stats are. I'm thinking that the number of people
who have London Bridge as a final destination must be increasing, when
you think of all the employers in the area (Guy's Hospital, Ernst &
Young, Norton Rose, the rest of the More London Estate) plus the
popularity of Borough Market and Borough High Street generally.

Patrick

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

On 19 Oct, 09:29, "R.C. Payne" wrote:
Though there has been a bridge there since something like 800AD, if you
have a look at London Bridge (the bridge) in the rush hour, you will see
hordes of commuters walking between the City and London Bridge railway
station.

That's presumably because there are still loads of trains that
terminate at London Bridge, and when you factor in the time taken to
cross the overhead bridge from platforms 8-16 to platforms 1-3, plus
wait for a Cannon Street train, then get to Cannon Street, it's
probably just as quick to walk it. I bet if all those trains that now
terminate at London Bridge went on to Cannon Street, there'd be far
fewer people walking across London Bridge itself.

Patrick

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

On 18 Oct, 23:03, MIG wrote:
On Oct 18, 10:46 pm, "Obadiah Jones"
wrote:

Or perhaps I should say 'what was the motivation for building it'?

I only ask because London Bridge is a mere ten minute stroll from
Cannon Street. Presumably Cannon Street trains have always passed
through London Bridge (apart from those heading towards Charing
Cross). So why go to the expense of building viaducts from the Borough
Market junction, bridging the river, and building a terminus station
at Cannon Street when it's virtually within spitting distance of a
much more significant station at London Bridge? Was it perhaps
intended to extend the line further north at some point?

London Bridge is only significant because so many trains go there or
through there. Nearly everyone arriving there by train immediately
goes somewhere else, by another train, by Underground or by bus.


That's just not correct.

The assertion that "nearly everyone" arriving at London Bridge travels
on from there by some form of public transport doesn't stands up to
any scrutiny - that's definitely not the case, especially during the
peaks.

An awful lot of City commuters walk from LB station over London Bridge
to reach their workplaces - the pavements across the bridge are
thronging during the rush hour. Plus of course the vicinity of London
Bridge station is a destination in itself - think of the offices on
Tooley Street, Southwark Street, Southwark Bridge Road, Guy's Hospital.

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

On 18 Oct, 23:47, Tom Anderson wrote:
London Bridge is only significant because so many trains go there or
through there. Nearly everyone arriving there by train immediately
goes somewhere else, by another train, by Underground or by bus.

But as Obadiah pointed out, even if you transfer to leg-power at London
Bridge, it's only a slightly longer walk to anywhere you want to get to. A
viaduct, bridge and stations purely to save a few minutes' walk seems a
bit generous. Could they not just have laid on omnibuses?

In addition to everything else mentioned - if you were to take the
current (totally rammed) pedestrian traffic on London Bridge at rush
hour, then add on the 23 peak tph (= c.24,000 pax assuming 8-car 465s
= 400 pax per minute) that currently go on to Cannon Street, you'd
need to pedestrianise the bridge to get them all across...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

On 19 Oct, 11:40, John B wrote:
On 18 Oct, 23:47, Tom Anderson wrote:

London Bridge is only significant because so many trains go there or
through there. Nearly everyone arriving there by train immediately
goes somewhere else, by another train, by Underground or by bus.

But as Obadiah pointed out, even if you transfer to leg-power at London
Bridge, it's only a slightly longer walk to anywhere you want to get to. A
viaduct, bridge and stations purely to save a few minutes' walk seems a
bit generous. Could they not just have laid on omnibuses?

In addition to everything else mentioned - if you were to take the
current (totally rammed) pedestrian traffic on London Bridge at rush
hour, then add on the 23 peak tph (= c.24,000 pax assuming 8-car 465s
= 400 pax per minute) that currently go on to Cannon Street, you'd
need to pedestrianise the bridge to get them all across...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot orgwww.johnband.org

Of course, London Bridge (bridge) has, so far as I know, uniquely
uneven pavements. That on the downstream (busy) side is twice the
width of the other one just to take the pedestrian traffic (and it
doesn't wobble).

MaxB

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

On 19 Oct, 13:50, MaxB wrote:
On 19 Oct, 11:40, John B wrote:

On 18 Oct, 23:47, Tom Anderson wrote:

London Bridge is only significant because so many trains go there or
through there. Nearly everyone arriving there by train immediately
goes somewhere else, by another train, by Underground or by bus.

But as Obadiah pointed out, even if you transfer to leg-power at London
Bridge, it's only a slightly longer walk to anywhere you want to get to. A
viaduct, bridge and stations purely to save a few minutes' walk seems a
bit generous. Could they not just have laid on omnibuses?

In addition to everything else mentioned - if you were to take the
current (totally rammed) pedestrian traffic on London Bridge at rush
hour, then add on the 23 peak tph (= c.24,000 pax assuming 8-car 465s
= 400 pax per minute) that currently go on to Cannon Street, you'd
need to pedestrianise the bridge to get them all across...


Of course, London Bridge (bridge) has, so far as I know, uniquely
uneven pavements. That on the downstream (busy) side is twice the
width of the other one just to take the pedestrian traffic (and it
doesn't wobble).


Blackfriars Bridge now has a much wider pavement on upstream (western)
side, but that's not anything to do with heavy pedestrian traffic -
instead it's because the third traffic lane has been removed from the
northbound side of the bridge, and the pavement extended over much of
this space.

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

On Oct 18, 10:46 pm, "Obadiah Jones"
wrote:
Or perhaps I should say 'what was the motivation for building it'?

I only ask because London Bridge is a mere ten minute stroll from
Cannon Street. Presumably Cannon Street trains have always passed
through London Bridge (apart from those heading towards Charing
Cross). So why go to the expense of building viaducts from the Borough
Market junction, bridging the river, and building a terminus station
at Cannon Street when it's virtually within spitting distance of a
much more significant station at London Bridge? Was it perhaps
intended to extend the line further north at some point?

Well I guess it's down to history and that in the late 1800's,
competition for building railways and terminii was fierce.

As for now. then yes. Cannon Street is very very close to London
Bridge and the majority of commuters are bound for somewhere in The
City.

So you could argue that Cannon Street is no longer required.
But it does serve as useful interchange to the District/Circle and
it's also in spitting distance of Bank.
(more so than monument) So it use as an interchange to the Central/W&C
and DLR is quite good.

ALso note that Cannon Street Station and the office complex within it
will shortly be redeveloped as it's looking a bit tired.
(no doubt to provide more glass buildings and yet another Pret A
Manger!!!!)

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

On 19 Oct, 09:29, "R.C. Payne" wrote:
On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 00:49:24 -0700, MIG wrote:
On Oct 18, 11:47 pm, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Thu, 18 Oct 2007, MIG wrote:
On Oct 18, 10:46 pm, "Obadiah Jones"
wrote:

Or perhaps I should say 'what was the motivation for building it'?

I only ask because London Bridge is a mere ten minute stroll from
Cannon Street. Presumably Cannon Street trains have always passed
through London Bridge (apart from those heading towards Charing Cross).
So why go to the expense of building viaducts from the Borough Market
junction, bridging the river, and building a terminus station at Cannon
Street when it's virtually within spitting distance of a much more
significant station at London Bridge? Was it perhaps intended to extend
the line further north at some point?

London Bridge is only significant because so many trains go there or
through there. Nearly everyone arriving there by train immediately
goes somewhere else, by another train, by Underground or by bus.

But as Obadiah pointed out, even if you transfer to leg-power at London
Bridge, it's only a slightly longer walk to anywhere you want to get to. A
viaduct, bridge and stations purely to save a few minutes' walk seems a
bit generous. Could they not just have laid on omnibuses?

Mind you, i think these things were a lot cheaper back then. They must
have been, given the amount of railway that was built.

tom

Things would have been very different. The current road bridge and
the Embankment didn't exist yet in 1860-something, and neither did the
District Line.

Though there has been a bridge there since something like 800AD, if you
have a look at London Bridge (the bridge) in the rush hour, you will see
hordes of commuters walking between the City and London Bridge railway
station.


Yes of course, but not the current one, and not in exactly the same
location. The situation was not as it is now in a number of ways.

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

On 19 Oct, 16:36, MIG wrote:
Though there has been a bridge there since something like 800AD, if you
have a look at London Bridge (the bridge) in the rush hour, you will see
hordes of commuters walking between the City and London Bridge railway
station.

Yes of course, but not the current one, and not in exactly the same
location. The situation was not as it is now in a number of ways.

....although I do rather like the idea of Viking hordes of commuters
crossing Old London Bridge in 850AD, presumably on their way to invest
their Danegeld...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 09:29:24 +0100, "R.C. Payne"
wrote:

Though there has been a bridge there since something like 800AD, if you
have a look at London Bridge (the bridge) in the rush hour, you will see
hordes of commuters walking between the City and London Bridge railway
station.

Hence the pavement reputedly being wider on the downstream side of the
bridge than the upstream side.

(Is this actually true, or is it an urban myth?)

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

On 19 Oct, 17:33, James Farrar wrote:
On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 09:29:24 +0100, "R.C. Payne"
wrote:

Though there has been a bridge there since something like 800AD, if you
have a look at London Bridge (the bridge) in the rush hour, you will see
hordes of commuters walking between the City and London Bridge railway
station.

Hence the pavement reputedly being wider on the downstream side of the
bridge than the upstream side.

(Is this actually true, or is it an urban myth?)

No urban myth - see this aerial view:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...=19&iwloc=addr

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

MIG wrote:
On 19 Oct, 09:29, "R.C. Payne" wrote:
On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 00:49:24 -0700, MIG wrote:

Things would have been very different. The current road bridge
and the Embankment didn't exist yet in 1860-something, and
neither did the District Line.

Though there has been a bridge there since something like 800AD,
if you have a look at London Bridge (the bridge) in the rush hour,
you will see hordes of commuters walking between the City and
London Bridge railway station.

Yes of course, but not the current one, and not in exactly the same
location.

Rennie's 1831 bridge was in exactly the same location as the present one
(1973). It was the old medieval bridge which was a short way downstream.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

Mizter T wrote:
On 19 Oct, 17:33, James Farrar wrote:
On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 09:29:24 +0100, "R.C. Payne"
wrote:

Though there has been a bridge there since something like 800AD, if you
have a look at London Bridge (the bridge) in the rush hour, you will see
hordes of commuters walking between the City and London Bridge railway
station.
Hence the pavement reputedly being wider on the downstream side of the
bridge than the upstream side.

(Is this actually true, or is it an urban myth?)

No urban myth - see this aerial view:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...=19&iwloc=addr


I asumed he meant is the *reason* for it true or an urban myth?

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

On Oct 19, 11:04 am, Mizter T wrote:
On 18 Oct, 23:03, MIG wrote:





On Oct 18, 10:46 pm, "Obadiah Jones"
wrote:

Or perhaps I should say 'what was the motivation for building it'?

I only ask because London Bridge is a mere ten minute stroll from
Cannon Street. Presumably Cannon Street trains have always passed
through London Bridge (apart from those heading towards Charing
Cross). So why go to the expense of building viaducts from the Borough
Market junction, bridging the river, and building a terminus station
at Cannon Street when it's virtually within spitting distance of a
much more significant station at London Bridge? Was it perhaps
intended to extend the line further north at some point?

London Bridge is only significant because so many trains go there or
through there. Nearly everyone arriving there by train immediately
goes somewhere else, by another train, by Underground or by bus.

That's just not correct.

The assertion that "nearly everyone" arriving at London Bridge travels
on from there by some form of public transport doesn't stands up to
any scrutiny - that's definitely not the case, especially during the
peaks.

An awful lot of City commuters walk from LB station over London Bridge
to reach their workplaces -

That's because their train terminates at London Bridge and it's not
worth the hassle of changing, but they'd stay on to Cannon Street if
there was such an option.

If London Bridge was so significant, there would be an equivalent
number of people walking south from the District Line every morning,
and there aren't.

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

In message , Obadiah Jones
writes

Or perhaps I should say 'what was the motivation for building it'?

The principal motivation was commercial competition. The South Eastern
Railway was initially happy with its terminus at London Bridge and its
later extension into the West End at Charing Cross. But in 1860, before
the extension was opened, its great rival (the London Chatham and Dover)
gained powers to build right into the heart of the city with a station
at Ludgate Hill. The South Eastern's answer, primarily in order not to
lose custom, was to build its own city terminus at Cannon Street.

--
Paul Terry

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

On Fri, Oct 19, 2007 at 03:01:11AM -0700, wrote:

plus the
popularity of Borough Market and Borough High Street generally.

Of course, the retail market is only busy on Saturdays, when the City is
closed.

--
David Cantrell | Nth greatest programmer in the world

Do not be afraid of cooking, as your ingredients will know and misbehave
-- Fergus Henderson

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

In message , David
Cantrell writes
On Fri, Oct 19, 2007 at 03:01:11AM -0700, wrote:

plus the
popularity of Borough Market and Borough High Street generally.

Of course, the retail market is only busy on Saturdays, when the City is
closed.
Not quite, Borough Market is also busy (fully manned and bustling) on
Fridays too; particularly at lunchtimes (probably due to the local
workers). I note from their website it's also open on Thursdays - I
worked in the local area a couple of years ago, but can't remember if it
was particularly busy then or not.

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

On Oct 18, 2:46 pm, "Obadiah Jones"
wrote:

Or perhaps I should say 'what was the motivation for building it'?


Methinks the other answers so far have missed a key point.

There used to be two 19th century rival companies at loggerheads with
other - the LCDR and the SER. Both these companies desired each their
own City terminus and own West End terminus. Thus - as far as they
could do it - the LCDR built Victoria (West End) and Holborn Viaduct
(City) and the SER built Charing Cross (West End) and Cannon Street
(City).

Even though those two concerns nominally merged into SECR they were
all but two seperate railways - and even through SR SE, BR SR SED,
Connex SE and SET/IKF those 19th competitors formed the key roots of
todays services - although SR electrifiying Holborn Viaduct altered
patterns serving that location, and it closed 1990s being served by
Blackfriars and City Thameslink insteads.

London Bridge is almost a red herring - it happens to be a large
station on the way, thats all.

--
Nick

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

On Mon, Oct 22, 2007 at 10:40:06PM +0100, Paul G wrote:
In message , David
Cantrell writes
Of course, the retail market is only busy on Saturdays, when the City is
closed.
Not quite, Borough Market is also busy (fully manned and bustling) on
Fridays too; particularly at lunchtimes

Oh? I thought that was only in the few weeks before Christmas.

Shame it's a little bit too far for me to go for lunch.

--
David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

PERL: Politely Expressed Racoon Love

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

On 23 Oct, 11:00, D7666 wrote:
There used to be two 19th century rival companies at loggerheads with
other - the LCDR and the SER. Both these companies desired each their
own City terminus and own West End terminus. Thus - as far as they
could do it - the LCDR built Victoria (West End) and Holborn Viaduct
(City) and the SER built Charing Cross (West End) and Cannon Street
(City).

Even though those two concerns nominally merged into SECR they were
all but two seperate railways - and even through SR SE, BR SR SED,
Connex SE and SET/IKF those 19th competitors formed the key roots of
todays services - although SR electrifiying Holborn Viaduct altered
patterns serving that location, and it closed 1990s being served by
Blackfriars and City Thameslink insteads.

....and even now, the trains from City Thameslink (i.e. Holborn Viaduct
renamed and with longer platforms) still run on the ex-LCDR lines to
Brighton via London Bridge or Loughborough Junction via Elephant &
Castle. Only when TL2K+n comes in will the service pattern move away
from the LCDR/SER split that we've had for the last 150 years...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

On 22 Oct, 11:28, David Cantrell wrote:
On Fri, Oct 19, 2007 at 03:01:11AM -0700, wrote:
plus the
popularity of Borough Market and Borough High Street generally.

Of course, the retail market is only busy on Saturdays, when the City is
closed.

--
David Cantrell | Nth greatest programmer in the world

Do not be afraid of cooking, as your ingredients will know and misbehave
-- Fergus Henderson

There doesn't seem to be much fuss over Smithfield Market being
knocked down.

Even though thats just as historic.

I guess the lack of well to do buying organic groceries doesn't help.

A.

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

On Tue, 23 Oct 2007, Londoncityslicker wrote:

On 22 Oct, 11:28, David Cantrell wrote:
On Fri, Oct 19, 2007 at 03:01:11AM -0700, wrote:

plus the popularity of Borough Market and Borough High Street
generally.

Of course, the retail market is only busy on Saturdays, when the City
is closed.

There doesn't seem to be much fuss over Smithfield Market being knocked
down.

First i've heard of it. What exactly is planned to be done to Smithfield?

tom

--
HE TORE HIS FACE OFF!!!

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

In message , Tom
Anderson writes
On Tue, 23 Oct 2007, Londoncityslicker wrote:

On 22 Oct, 11:28, David Cantrell wrote:
On Fri, Oct 19, 2007 at 03:01:11AM -0700, wrote:

plus the popularity of Borough Market and Borough High Street
generally.

Of course, the retail market is only busy on Saturdays, when the
City is closed.

There doesn't seem to be much fuss over Smithfield Market being
knocked down.

First i've heard of it. What exactly is planned to be done to Smithfield?

There is a proposal to demolish the so-called "General Market" at
Smithfield (ie the buildings which face on to Farringdon Street). This
proposal doesn't affect the much better known East and West Markets,
which are what most people picture when they think of Smithfield.
Indeed, these have been much modernised over the years.

That said, there's something of a storm of protest even over the
redevelopment of the General Market with a public enquiry planned for -
I think - next month.

For the record, Borough Market is open for retail purposes on Thursday
and Friday afternoons and all day on Saturdays. For wholesale purposes
it's open every night except for Saturdays/Sundays.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

There doesn't seem to be much fuss over Smithfield Market being
knocked down.

Even though thats just as historic.


Its not being knocked down. Thats one of the few things round there
that's going to be left alone.
There is an office development threatening the "General Market" at
Smithfield, but that's the boarded up building on farringdon street
not "THE smithfield market" building.

Its a pity they couldn't think of an excuse to demolish the "Poultry
Market" there, I'm sure there are people who would be glad to loose it.

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

On Tue, 23 Oct 2007, Ian Jelf wrote:

In message , Tom Anderson
writes
On Tue, 23 Oct 2007, Londoncityslicker wrote:

There doesn't seem to be much fuss over Smithfield Market being
knocked down.

First i've heard of it. What exactly is planned to be done to
Smithfield?

There is a proposal to demolish the so-called "General Market" at
Smithfield (ie the buildings which face on to Farringdon Street). This
proposal doesn't affect the much better known East and West Markets,
which are what most people picture when they think of Smithfield.

Okay. Still, i wouldn't say the General Market is without historical and
aesthetic value:

http://www.ludgatecircus.com/smithfi...ral_market.htm
http://www.urban75.org/london/smithfield-market.html
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...=317287&page=9 (Phoenix Columns, i hear)

Is the demolition of the General Market necessary for something (Crossrail
or Thameslink), or is it just so someone can build an office block? I get
the impression from my brief reading that it's the latter.

tom

--
Understand the world we're living in

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

On Oct 22, 11:28 am, David Cantrell wrote:
On Fri, Oct 19, 2007 at 03:01:11AM -0700, wrote:

Oh God!!
The people who go to Borough market on Saturday!

Man to child:
"Alexander Alexander ! Time for LUNCH Alexander ! Ou est le fromage
Alexander? Ou est le fromage? Time for LUNCH. LUNCH!! LUNCH
Alexander!!!!!!"

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

In message .com,
Offramp writes
On Oct 22, 11:28 am, David Cantrell wrote:
On Fri, Oct 19, 2007 at 03:01:11AM -0700, wrote:

Oh God!!
The people who go to Borough market on Saturday!

Man to child:
"Alexander Alexander ! Time for LUNCH Alexander ! Ou est le fromage
Alexander? Ou est le fromage? Time for LUNCH. LUNCH!! LUNCH
Alexander!!!!!!"

As someone who often does walking tours of Bankside/Borough at weekends,
that has given me one of those delightful if messy coffee on keyboard
moments! :-))
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

In message , Tom
Anderson writes
On Tue, 23 Oct 2007, Ian Jelf wrote:

In message , Tom
Anderson writes
On Tue, 23 Oct 2007, Londoncityslicker wrote:

There doesn't seem to be much fuss over Smithfield Market being
knocked down.
First i've heard of it. What exactly is planned to be done to
Smithfield?

There is a proposal to demolish the so-called "General Market" at
Smithfield (ie the buildings which face on to Farringdon Street).
This proposal doesn't affect the much better known East and West
Markets, which are what most people picture when they think of Smithfield.

Okay. Still, i wouldn't say the General Market is without historical
and aesthetic value:
No, nor would I.

Snip

Is the demolition of the General Market necessary for something
(Crossrail or Thameslink), or is it just so someone can build an office
block? I get the impression from my brief reading that it's the latter.
My understanding is that it's for apartments (that's "flats" to you and
me) but I could be wrong.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

On 24 Oct, 22:23, Ian Jelf wrote:
In message , Tom
Anderson writes

On Tue, 23 Oct 2007, Ian Jelf wrote:

In message , Tom
Anderson writes
On Tue, 23 Oct 2007, Londoncityslicker wrote:

There doesn't seem to be much fuss over Smithfield Market being
knocked down.
First i've heard of it. What exactly is planned to be done to
Smithfield?

There is a proposal to demolish the so-called "General Market" at
Smithfield (ie the buildings which face on to Farringdon Street).
This proposal doesn't affect the much better known East and West
Markets, which are what most people picture when they think of Smithfield.

Okay. Still, i wouldn't say the General Market is without historical
and aesthetic value:

No, nor would I.

Snip

Is the demolition of the General Market necessary for something
(Crossrail or Thameslink), or is it just so someone can build an office
block? I get the impression from my brief reading that it's the latter.

My understanding is that it's for apartments (that's "flats" to you and
me) but I could be wrong.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of Englandhttp://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

The General Market isn't that near Crossrail - its to the south.
Thameslink does run under it, but that would just be track, not
platform, even with the plans for Farringdon. Its just an office block
that they plan to demolish it for.

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

Offramp wrote:

Oh God!!
The people who go to Borough market on Saturday!

Man to child:
"Alexander Alexander ! Time for LUNCH Alexander ! Ou est le fromage
Alexander? Ou est le fromage? Time for LUNCH. LUNCH!! LUNCH
Alexander!!!!!!"

Eeek! Too close to home!

Was in Fes, Morocco. Sitting on the windowsill of the hotel watching the
birds in the olive and palm trees. Eating some Chaumes we'd just purchased.
Went to rip open the bag and it slipped out of my hands, down into the
bushes below.... saw the door staff watch it fall.

Ran downstairs, door staff standing impassionatly, "Ou est moi fromage?" i
asked in best schoolboy French. Not a movement, not a flicker ....

So i dived into the bushes, discovered it floating, still in the bag, in a
small ornamental pond. "Ici moi fromage!" i exclaimed, holding up the
dripping bag... pulling the twigs out of my hair...

Still thay just looked on... with a "Bloody crazy these Brits!" look on
their faces..

No idea why but it became the catch phrase of the holiday. "Ou est moi
fromage?" would reduce us to a puddle of laughter.

Les

--
Remove Frontal Lobes to reply direct.

"These people believe the souls of fried space aliens inhabit their
bodies and hold soup cans to get rid of them. I should care what they
think?"...Valerie Emmanuel

Les Hemmings a.a #2251 SA

What is the point of Cannon Street (National Rail) Station?
 

Les Hemmings wrote:
Offramp wrote:

Oh God!!
The people who go to Borough market on Saturday!

Man to child:
"Alexander Alexander ! Time for LUNCH Alexander ! Ou est le fromage
Alexander? Ou est le fromage? Time for LUNCH. LUNCH!! LUNCH
Alexander!!!!!!"

Eeek! Too close to home!

Was in Fes, Morocco. Sitting on the windowsill of the hotel watching
the birds in the olive and palm trees. Eating some Chaumes we'd just
purchased. Went to rip open the bag and it slipped out of my hands,
down into the bushes below.... saw the door staff watch it fall.

Ran downstairs, door staff standing impassionatly, "Ou est moi
fromage?" i asked in best schoolboy French. Not a movement, not a
flicker ....
So i dived into the bushes, discovered it floating, still in the bag,
in a small ornamental pond. "Ici moi fromage!" i exclaimed, holding
up the dripping bag... pulling the twigs out of my hair...

Still thay just looked on... with a "Bloody crazy these Brits!" look
on their faces..

I suspect the hotel staff were as much amused by your search as by your
somewhat ungrammatical question "where is I/me cheese?" (moi fromage)
rather than "where is my cheese" (mon fromage) ;-)