Crossrail is already here!
 

I've just received an email telling me:

The RAIB is carrying out an investigation into an incident when a
road rail engineering machine ran away from Brentford to Romford on
4 November 2007.

Obviously it must have taken Crossrail, since going round the NLL would
involve climbing uphill.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Crossrail is already here!
 

Clive D. W. Feather scribbled with quill and ink on parchment:
I've just received an email telling me:

The RAIB is carrying out an investigation into an incident when a
road rail engineering machine ran away from Brentford to Romford on
4 November 2007.

Obviously it must have taken Crossrail, since going round the NLL would
involve climbing uphill.

So they mean Romwood, not Romford then? :)

--
alan G
http://alangcds.netsoundsmusic.com/

for my website for selling my private collection of records - vinyl and
cds, plus VHS videos . These are mainly action, scifi and horror.

Keep checking back at netsoundsmusic.com as I am uploading new stock for
sale regularly.

Crossrail is already here!
 

On 6 Nov, 10:20, alanG wrote:
Clive D. W. Feather scribbled with quill and ink on parchment: I've just received an email telling me:

The RAIB is carrying out an investigation into an incident when a
road rail engineering machine ran away from Brentford to Romford on
4 November 2007.

Obviously it must have taken Crossrail, since going round the NLL would
involve climbing uphill.

So they mean Romwood, not Romford then? :)

--
alan Ghttp://alangcds.netsoundsmusic.com/

for my website for selling my private collection of records - vinyl and
cds, plus VHS videos . These are mainly action, scifi and horror.

Keep checking back at netsoundsmusic.com as I am uploading new stock for
sale regularly.

Details he http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/...04_romford.cfm
[Brentwood & Romford named correctly!]

--
Ken

Crossrail is already here!
 

On Nov 6, 2:00 pm, Ken wrote:
On 6 Nov, 10:20, alanG wrote:





Clive D. W. Feather scribbled with quill and ink on parchment: I've just received an email telling me:

The RAIB is carrying out an investigation into an incident when a
road rail engineering machine ran away from Brentford to Romford on
4 November 2007.

Obviously it must have taken Crossrail, since going round the NLL would
involve climbing uphill.

So they mean Romwood, not Romford then? :)

--
alan Ghttp://alangcds.netsoundsmusic.com/

for my website for selling my private collection of records - vinyl and
cds, plus VHS videos . These are mainly action, scifi and horror.

Keep checking back at netsoundsmusic.com as I am uploading new stock for
sale regularly.

Details hehttp://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/...ons_register/0...
[Brentwood & Romford named correctly!]

Doesn't make sense to me. How can it run away when placed on the
track? Was it in gear and if so
didn't anyone notice any of the wheels turning? If it was purely by
gravity what sort of gradiant is on
that stretch of line that it moved off so fast someone couldnt' jump
into the cab?

"The operator of the machine jumped from it at Gidea Park"

Why didn't he put the brakes on?? Presumably they were working or it
wouldn't have been able to drive there
by road in the first place.

B2003

Crossrail is already here!
 

In message om, at
06:00:44 on Tue, 6 Nov 2007, Ken remarked:

Details he http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/...04_romford.cfm
[Brentwood & Romford named correctly!]

"The RAIB’s initial examination indicates that the maintenance
condition of the road rail machine did not contribute to the
incident."

Hmm, they always speak in code!

Did it have a working brake, but no-one put it on, not even the chap
inside who jumped off at Gidea Park? Or was the brake maintained OK, but
someone had disabled it in a non-maintenance kind of way?
--
Roland Perry

Crossrail is already here!
 

On 6 Nov, 15:45, Roland Perry wrote:

"The RAIB's initial examination indicates that the maintenance
condition of the road rail machine did not contribute to the
incident."

Hmm, they always speak in code!

Did it have a working brake, but no-one put it on, not even the chap
inside who jumped off at Gidea Park? Or was the brake maintained OK, but
someone had disabled it in a non-maintenance kind of way?

I don' t know, but I have found out some more details. Services from
Liverpool St to Shenfield and beyond were using the Up & Down Main
lines, however the half-hourly Gidea Park terminators were using the
Electric [ie slow/local] lines, and turning round in GP middle
siding. The engineering possession extended from Gidea Park country
end to Shenfield. The trolley ran away (how I don't know) down the
steeply-graded Brentwood bank, out of the possession and on to the
operational railway. I have heard that a 315 had just gone into the
middle siding at Gidea Park when this trolley whizzed by 'wrong road'.

Then the person on board leapt off at GP platform, and the trolley
continued until it came to a stand by West Ham Utd's training ground,
towards Chadwell Heath station. So this had the potential to be a
serious incident, either for trackworkers (cf. Tebay) or for the
driver and pax of a down LST-Gidea Park service.

--
Ken

Crossrail is already here!
 

On Tue, 6 Nov 2007, Ken wrote:

On 6 Nov, 10:20, alanG wrote:
Clive D. W. Feather scribbled with quill and ink on parchment: I've just received an email telling me:

The RAIB is carrying out an investigation into an incident when a
road rail engineering machine ran away from Brentford to Romford on
4 November 2007.

Obviously it must have taken Crossrail, since going round the NLL would
involve climbing uphill.

So they mean Romwood, not Romford then? :)

Details he http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/...04_romford.cfm
[Brentwood & Romford named correctly!]

Typical cover-up. They don't want us to know the truth about the secret
tunnels they use to move the trains to and from the you-know-what!

Would someone be interested in reminding me why the RAIB and HSE or
whoever do parallel investigations?

tom

--
But for [Flavor Flav's] "YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAH BOYYYYYYYYYY"s alone he should
be given Rap Legend status. -- Nate Patrin, ILX

Crossrail is already here!
 

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
.li...
On Tue, 6 Nov 2007, Ken wrote:

On 6 Nov, 10:20, alanG wrote:
Clive D. W. Feather scribbled with quill and ink on parchment: I've
just received an email telling me:

The RAIB is carrying out an investigation into an incident when a
road rail engineering machine ran away from Brentford to Romford on
4 November 2007.

Obviously it must have taken Crossrail, since going round the NLL would
involve climbing uphill.

So they mean Romwood, not Romford then? :)

Details he
http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/...04_romford.cfm
[Brentwood & Romford named correctly!]

Typical cover-up. They don't want us to know the truth about the secret
tunnels they use to move the trains to and from the you-know-what!

Would someone be interested in reminding me why the RAIB and HSE or
whoever do parallel investigations?

tom

IIRC, the RAIB investigations are into the cause of the incident, and ways
of avoiding a future recurrence, and not in bringing a prosecution of a
'guilty party'- indeed, I believe that evidence given to them cannot be used
in a prosecution. This followed HSE handling of certain cases, where certain
parties were advised by their lawyers not to volunteer evidence in case they
incriminated themselves.
Brian
--
But for [Flavor Flav's] "YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAH BOYYYYYYYYYY"s alone he should
be given Rap Legend status. -- Nate Patrin, ILX

Crossrail is already here!
 

In message , Tom
Anderson writes
Typical cover-up. They don't want us to know the truth about the secret
tunnels they use to move the trains to and from the you-know-what!

Sssh. Nobody expects the S******* R******...

(fx: cue heavy banging at the door..)
--
James Christie

Crossrail is already here!
 

Doesn't make sense to me. How can it run away when placed on the
track? Was it in gear and if so
didn't anyone notice any of the wheels turning? If it was purely by
gravity what sort of gradiant is on
that stretch of line that it moved off so fast someone couldnt' jump
into the cab?

"The operator of the machine jumped from it at Gidea Park"

Why didn't he put the brakes on?? Presumably they were working or it
wouldn't have been able to drive there
by road in the first place.


what can happen with some machines, where the rail wheels are unpowered and
are driven by the rubbers, is that if the operator, whilst on-tracking the
machine does not put one rail axle all the way down before the other you can
end up with a situation where neither rail wheel is in contact with a rubber
tyre and the machine will start to run away.

if the machine controller is sensible he will chuckle to himself and wait 1
second for the operator to drop one end and stop the machine, but, if he is
a ****wit he will panic, hit the emergency stop button and leave the
operator rolling off down track in a machine with no way of stopping it.

i have only seen this myself on my machine controllers course where the
instructor did it on a short piece of track to show us what not to do but i
do know of worksites where it has happened for real.

since the report mentions a MEWP (mobile elevating working platform) it was
probably one of these http://www.readypower.co.uk/products/32, i have MC'd
these myself in worksites in this area, usually for balfour beatty OHL.

this method of driving a road rail vehicle (RRV) is called high rail, the
other 2 are low rail where the rubber road tyres sit on the rail and small
rail wheels are used only for guidance (ie land rovers) and independent
drive where separate (usually hydraulic) bogies are used, these are usually
used on tracked vehicles (ie dozers)

james

Crossrail is already here!
 

On 6 Nov, 09:04, "Clive D. W. Feather" cl...@on-the-
train.demon.co.uk wrote:
Obviously it must have taken Crossrail, since going round the NLL would
involve climbing uphill.

I'm assuming there an Acme giant spring handily parked in the
platforms at Southall?

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

Crossrail is already here!
 

On 6 Nov, 14:00, Ken wrote:
On 6 Nov, 10:20, alanG wrote:



Clive D. W. Feather scribbled with quill and ink on parchment: I've just received an email telling me:

The RAIB is carrying out an investigation into an incident when a
road rail engineering machine ran away from Brentford to Romford on
4 November 2007.

Obviously it must have taken Crossrail, since going round the NLL would
involve climbing uphill.

So they mean Romwood, not Romford then? :)

Ho ho!


Details he
http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/...ons_register/0...
[Brentwood & Romford named correctly!]


I'm sure that in the past I've read Mr Perry's words about how
difficult it was working for a company based in Brentfword, as
deliveries would regularly turn up in Essex when they should have been
in West London... or was the Mr Perry regularly turning up in West
London when he should have been in Essex...

Crossrail is already here!
 

On 6 Nov, 22:42, Mizter T wrote:
On 6 Nov, 14:00, Ken wrote:

On 6 Nov, 10:20, alanG wrote:

Clive D. W. Feather scribbled with quill and ink on parchment: I've just received an email telling me:

The RAIB is carrying out an investigation into an incident when a
road rail engineering machine ran away from Brentford to Romford on
4 November 2007.

Obviously it must have taken Crossrail, since going round the NLL would
involve climbing uphill.

So they mean Romwood, not Romford then? :)

Ho ho!



Details he
http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/...ons_register/0...
[Brentwood & Romford named correctly!]

I'm sure that in the past I've read Mr Perry's words about how
difficult it was working for a company based in Brentfword, as
deliveries would regularly turn up in Essex when they should have been
in West London... or was the Mr Perry regularly turning up in West
London when he should have been in Essex...

My parents live in a district of East Kilbride called St. Leonards.
It is quoted on the street name signs, underneath the actual street
name. But don't put it on a postal address, or their mail will end up
going via E. Sussex!

--
Ken

Crossrail is already here!
 

In message . com, at
14:42:52 on Tue, 6 Nov 2007, Mizter T remarked:
I'm sure that in the past I've read Mr Perry's words about how
difficult it was working for a company based in Brentfword, as
deliveries would regularly turn up in Essex when they should have been
in West London... or was the Mr Perry regularly turning up in West
London when he should have been in Essex...

The latter. We were in Brentwood, and things were constantly being
addressed to Brentford. Part of the problem was that many of our
suppliers were in the Thames Valley, and Brentford Nylons (different
industry) had a high profile advertising campaign.
--
Roland Perry

Crossrail is already here!
 

On Nov 6, 8:30 pm, "john doe" wrote:
since the report mentions a MEWP (mobile elevating working platform) it was
probably one of thesehttp://www.readypower.co.uk/products/32, i have MC'd
these myself in worksites in this area, usually for balfour beatty OHL.

Ah , makes sense now. I assumed it was a Unimog type vehicle where the
road tyres actually sit on the rails.

B2003

Crossrail is already here!
 

On Tue, 6 Nov 2007, BH Williams wrote:

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
.li...

Clive D. W. Feather scribbled with quill and ink on parchment: I've
just received an email telling me:

The RAIB is carrying out an investigation into an incident when a
road rail engineering machine ran away from Brentford to Romford on
4 November 2007.

Would someone be interested in reminding me why the RAIB and HSE or
whoever do parallel investigations?

IIRC, the RAIB investigations are into the cause of the incident, and ways
of avoiding a future recurrence, and not in bringing a prosecution of a
'guilty party'- indeed, I believe that evidence given to them cannot be used
in a prosecution. This followed HSE handling of certain cases, where certain
parties were advised by their lawyers not to volunteer evidence in case they
incriminated themselves.

Fair enough. But does this require two entirely separate investigations?
How about doing the HSE/police bit, and then handing the results to the
RAIB to be extended with non-evidence evidence? Or allowing people to make
supplementary non-evidence statements when talking to the HSE? Are the
goals or methods of the two investigations sufficiently different that
this wouldn't work - aren't they both basically trying to find out what
happened? I suppose there would be practical problems in carrying out an
investigation where some of your evidence could be used in court and some
couldn't. And if the two bodies share information effectively, i suppose
there's little downside to them both working at once.

tom

--
If it ain't broke, open it up and see what makes it so bloody special.