Ianigsy wrote in
ups.com:

I get the impression that while Oyster may be fine for people who live
in London and for tourists who only really want the central zones,
it's a bit more patchy for those of us who visit London once or twice
a year and want to go to specific places- but I'm sure it'll be fine
once it's settled down.

I think that's fair comment. It would be a little bit easier, of course, if
the obvious alternative for very occasional travellers - ie paying in cash
- weren't, by design, so astoundingly expensive in London.

--
Bewdley, Worcs. ~90m asl.

Ianigsy wrote in news:1194386594.889613.260210
@o3g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:

snip
I think the thing is that Oyster seems to be a step forward
technologically but a step backward (to the days before Travelcards)
in terms of how the PAYG side works.
snip

I sometimes think that maybe the appropriate regulatory body should have
said, "You can only introduce this when *all* trains in London can accept
them - and if that means no Oyster till 2010, Ken, then tough I'm afraid."

--
Bewdley, Worcs. ~90m asl.

Can anyone explain which route justifies Harrow and Wealdstone to
Harrow-on-the-Hill being £1.00 at all times according to the fare
finder? Even if you go via Brondesbury post 11 November, it can't be
done without going from Zone 5 to Zone 5 via Zone 2.

Does the single fare finder work by matching up pairs of stations and
selecting a fare or by looking simply at the zones of the two
stations?



Kenton to Northwick Park is a valid "out-of-barrier" interchange, so
that is the intended route.

On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 17:03:31 -0800, wrote:

Looking at the single fare finder on the TfL website - some fares
appear to be set with connections via London Overground in mind, a
single from Richmond to Harrow & Wealdstone is £1.80 peak, £1.00 off-
peak. From Gunnersbury to Stonebridge Park, the fare is £1.00 at all
times. Given that these journeys aren't possible other than via Zone
1 on PAYG at the moment, I guess that underground level Oyster fares
will apply more generally.

It's always been like that. It's to prevent holders of (e.g.) Z2-6
Travelcards being charged a Z1 extension fare when they make those
journeys using the NLL.

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 01:17:56 +0000, James Farrar wrote:

Quoted from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overground_Network

This link led me to [[London Overground]], which makes an interesting
point:

"When the [East London Railway] extension opens, the London Overground
will [...] be below the London Underground part of Whitechapel tube
station" (!)

That will be the case from Sunday at Stratford, where the NLL
platforms are below the Central Line platforms.

(Also just to the west of West Hampstead, where the NLL passes under
the Met and Jubilee, etc.)

On Nov 7, 1:03 am, wrote:

There is plenty of talk about Oyster PAYG being available on London
Overground but very little in writing about the actual fares to be
charged for PAYG. The assumption seems to be that the fares will be
the same as those on the underground under PAYG. Is this actually the
case?

I can't believe that four days before going live they don't seem to
even have published what zones the extra stations are going to be in
on the Watford line.

I got an email yesterday to my oyster card address giving me a link
(to a strange domain that redirected to tfl.gov.uk) but that had no
more information than I've seen before.

Tim.

On Nov 6, 11:43 pm, Tim Woodall wrote:
On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 22:50:21 +0000,
Charles Ellson wrote:



On Tue, 6 Nov 2007 14:16:48 -0000, "Peter Masson"
wrote:

"Ken" wrote

But Oyster PAYG will be accepted from Day One, throughout the
"Overground" network, even to Watford Jct., which is a big change.

Presumably Oyster PAYG will also be accepted on Southern between Watford
Junction and Clapham Junction, and on West Midlands (ex-Silverlink County)
between Watford Junction and Euston. But is this spelt out anywhere?
Presumably, though, not on VWC between Watford Junction and Euston, in view
of the take up/set down status of stops at Watford Junction.

The specific references to "North London Railway" and the map on:-
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ground-map.pdf
would seem to exclude Southern and the non-DC route from Euston to
Watford.

It's going to be a nightmare and people are going to get very confused
if that is the case. :-(


One more clue about possible acceptance of Oyster PAYG on Southern
services is the presence of Oyster PAYG validators on Platforms 2,16
and 17 at Clapham Junction (but not on the other platforms). Platforms
2 and 17 can be used by what will be the Overground trains (to / from
Willesden), but it would be very unusual to see a Metro train in
Platform 16, as the only access is via a shunt East (geographically) /
North (direction of the service) of the station. Any train undertaking
the shunt is likely to just run in service back in the Olympia
direction.

Also, within the zones, would Southern have any choice but to accept
PAYG, as I think that Silverlink would currently set the fares and if
they (as Overground) as setting the fares at PAYG Oyster levels, then
Southern would have no choice but to accept them. The acceptance (or
not) of PAYG to Watford Junction on Southern would just be the same as
PAYG for the London Midland services. As both are run by Govia, then
I'd imagine a common policy.

wrote in message
ups.com...
On 6 Nov, 23:07, brixtonite wrote:
On Nov 6, 1:52 pm, Ken wrote:

But Oyster PAYG will be accepted from Day One, throughout the
"Overground" network, even to Watford Jct., which is a big change.

Does this mean that someone with Oyster PAYG could get through the
barriers at Clapham Junction and Richmond or Wimbledon, although they
couldn't legally take a direct train between them? If they did, would
they be charged as if they'd changed at West Brompton and take the
district line?

The simple answer is to allow for the time the indirect route would
take. I think that it would be unlikely for someone to be able to make
the journey from Clapham Junction to Wimbledon via West Brompton in
less than 20 minutes whereas the direct route is well under half
that. Make the ticket gates charge a penalty for anyone making the
journey in less than 20 minutes.

No different to the existing situation between Paddington suburban and
Ealing Broadway, Ealing Broadway and Greenford, Wimbledon and
Richmond, New Cross or New Cross Gate and (say) Farringdon where
exising access is shared between the underground and National Rail.

Jonathan

Jonathan

How far out of London can you buy a combined London return fare inclusive of
a Travelcard. When I travel to London from Oxford I always ask for a London
Travelcard, that gives me a return fare to London plus an all zone
travelcard.

"Arthur Figgis" wrote in message
...
umpston wrote:
On Nov 6, 5:53 pm, "Peter Masson" wrote:

It occurs to me that the 'Overground' network branding would make more
sense if it consisted of all non-LUL lines where Oyster PAYG is
accepted. This would be much easier for visitors to London (and
residents for that matter) to understand.

3-4 years ago a London "Overground Network" was launched with a few photos
in the local papers and some shiney but largely pointless branded signage
at National Rail stations. It is lucky it was so underwhelming and soon
fizzled out, else it would add to the confusion. I've a feeling there are
still some ON signs around, which won't help.


There are plenty of old type 'on' overground network signs about in South
London. Another thread in uk.t.l proposed that TfL don't see them as their
problem, but its for the TOCs affected to put right - I think it will
definitely add to the confusion as soon as Sunday, when Ken announces with a
great fanfare that PAYG is now available on the 'Overground' - the new one
that is, not the previous one, or the 'colloquial' anything other than LU'
one...

Paul

wrote in message
ps.com...

There is plenty of talk about Oyster PAYG being available on London
Overground but very little in writing about the actual fares to be
charged for PAYG. The assumption seems to be that the fares will be
the same as those on the underground under PAYG. Is this actually the
case?


I don't think so. I've just emailed them with that very question though.
Current evidence from NR's online planner is that London Overground is just
a change of TOC, and fares will be rail fares, not tube fares, with normal
point to point NR tickets remaining available.

Another pertinent point is that NR fares change in January. There could be
wholesale changes to do with the London Fare Zones (as they are described by
DfT) at that time, like there were in January 07.

Paul