On Nov 9, 1:55 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Yes - all the normal fares (£3.10 CDR?) are still available, using the NR
planner - as I've said before, LO is still part of the rail network. There
must be other lines where people have to decide whether to buy a NR style
return ticket, or use Oyster - those outer bits of the Met/Chiltern for
instance?

How will capping work? How does it work on those other lines?

I still don't understand why there isn't some web pages somewhere
laying all this out. Presumably someone has already thought about all
this - or are they waiting to see which passengers complain before
deciding what to do?

I presume (given that you've said everything is charged exactly as
before) that you'll get a Zsomething-6 cap plus singles between Hatch
End and whatever stations you're visiting. Or maybe any journey that
starts/terminates north of Z6 will be charged at NR rates? After all,
at the moment, if you have an oyster card that's reached it's cap
you'll have to leave the DC line at H&W and then buy a NR single to
complete your journey. If you buy a NR single from say Wembley Central
you'll not get a discount for having a capped oyster card. And if you
don't touch out at H&W you'll get an unresolved journey.

At weekends there are often lots of people making these short journeys
on the DC line. (Maybe there are during the week as well but I'm
almost never on the DC line outside of a weekend). So on Sunday you're
going to get lots of people asking these questions.

(Actually, my guess is that oyster won't be ready at these stations at
the weekend so the information hasn't been published to stop people
thinking they will be able to use it)

I've got a gold card, so I can watch and see what happens but other
people currently use NR singles/returns and ODTC would like to know
the answers to some of these questions before they travel on Sunday/
Monday

Tim.

As far as I am aware, London Overground remains part of National Rail
and normal NR fares will apply beyond Harrow & Wealdstone. The fact
that an Oyster Card can be used to pay for those fares by PAYG does
not mean that LU fares will be charged. After all, London Buses accept
Oyster PAYG but have different fares to LU.

Nor does it mean that there will be LU-style differential fares for
using Oyster PAYG as opposed to paper tickets. National Rail has not
signed up to that concept.

Were reduced fares to be brought in south of Watford Junction, under
the fares basket rules the affected franchisees would have the ability
to increase other fares by more than average to make up the
difference. So customers south of Watford would pay less whilst those
living north would suffer.

On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 10:50:08 -0800, W14_Fishbourne
wrote:

As far as I am aware, London Overground remains part of National Rail
and normal NR fares will apply beyond Harrow & Wealdstone. The fact
that an Oyster Card can be used to pay for those fares by PAYG does
not mean that LU fares will be charged. After all, London Buses accept
Oyster PAYG but have different fares to LU.

Nor does it mean that there will be LU-style differential fares for
using Oyster PAYG as opposed to paper tickets. National Rail has not
signed up to that concept.

Were reduced fares to be brought in south of Watford Junction, under
the fares basket rules the affected franchisees would have the ability
to increase other fares by more than average to make up the
difference. So customers south of Watford would pay less whilst those
living north would suffer.

An interesting question is what capacity Oyster has for charging
return fares.

For example, the fares from Harrow & Wealdstone to Watford Junction
a

CDS £3.50
SDS £3.70
CDR £3.60
SDR £5.30

(One way to do it would be for TfL could set a London Overground-only
off peak fare of £1.80, and a peak fare of £2.60)

wrote in message
ups.com...
On Nov 9, 1:55 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Yes - all the normal fares (£3.10 CDR?) are still available, using the NR
planner - as I've said before, LO is still part of the rail network.
There
must be other lines where people have to decide whether to buy a NR style
return ticket, or use Oyster - those outer bits of the Met/Chiltern for
instance?

How will capping work? How does it work on those other lines?

I still don't understand why there isn't some web pages somewhere
laying all this out. Presumably someone has already thought about all
this - or are they waiting to see which passengers complain before
deciding what to do?

Everything to do with the complexities of daily capping for the existing
zones is in the current fares leaflet, the various values are 50p less than
the equivalent day travelcard for the zones used. That explains why there
are 16 different caps for Tube/DLR...

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ckets-0709.pdf

It might reasonably be expected that this document will be republished by
Sunday - but I'm not holding my breath.
BTW, I liked the suggestion that the Oyster readers might not even work...

Paul

On Nov 9, 8:17 pm, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:

An interesting question is what capacity Oyster has for charging
return fares.

For example, the fares from Harrow & Wealdstone to Watford Junction
a

CDS £3.50
SDS £3.70
CDR £3.60
SDR £5.30



Oyster has no facility for charging return fares, nor am I aware that
one is planned. I'm not even sure if it can cope with the National
Rail switch between peak and off-peak fares yet - most of these
developments have still to be built into the Oyster system.

If you were silly enough to use Oyster to travel between H&W and WJ in
both directions, you will presumably be charged two single fares (at
least £7, maybe £7.40, instead of £5.30 peak and £3.60 off-peak).

This, of course, is due to different bits of TfL going off in
different directions - Ken and London Rail wanting to grab as many
bits of National Rail as it can as soon as it can, while Fares and
Ticketing is stuck in the LU mould and reluctant to develop Oyster to
cope without overcharging customers.

In message .com
W14_Fishbourne wrote:

On Nov 9, 8:17 pm, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:

An interesting question is what capacity Oyster has for charging
return fares.

For example, the fares from Harrow & Wealdstone to Watford Junction
a

CDS £3.50
SDS £3.70
CDR £3.60
SDR £5.30



Oyster has no facility for charging return fares, nor am I aware that
one is planned. I'm not even sure if it can cope with the National
Rail switch between peak and off-peak fares yet - most of these
developments have still to be built into the Oyster system.

It can cope with peak and off-peak fares on the UndergrounD


--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html

On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 12:00:13 -0000, Andy wrote:

Yes, National Rail don't operate trains, but I suggest that you tell
TfL this, as their Oyster documentation and maps always seems to refer
to National Rail trains. If a person were only to look at the TfL
leaflets, they might think that Oyster PAYG is available on some
trains where it doesn't appear to be if you refer to the National Rail
information. The example being Harrow - Wembley Central on the few
Southern peak hour services

Are you saying that PAYG is not valid on Southern between these
stations? Where is the National Rail information that says this?

On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 10:04:51 -0800, wrote:

(Actually, my guess is that oyster won't be ready at these stations at
the weekend so the information hasn't been published to stop people
thinking they will be able to use it)

I have to agree - I'll be pleasantly surprised if PAYG is valid beyond
Hatch End tomorrow.

On Nov 10, 3:48 pm, asdf wrote:


Are you saying that PAYG is not valid on Southern between these
stations? Where is the National Rail information that says this?


See foot of page at: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_...oysterservices

Oyster PAYG is not valid from Watford Junction, full stop, according
to this. Where does it say different?

London Midland will presumably set the fares from Watford Junction to
Euston, seeing as how they operate most of the through services that
customers will actually use for the journey, and they (through their
predecessors) will only have signed up to accepting Oyster when the
rest of the London area accepts it in 2009.

On Nov 10, 3:36 pm, rail wrote:


It can cope with peak and off-peak fares on the UndergrounD


But on a simplistic and entirely different basis to NR fares.