Eurostar's south London farewell
 

"Mizter T" wrote in message
ups.com...

I'm sure I'm not the only one to have been cheered seeing the Eurostar
making it's way across south London from the other side of the glass,
its passing presence being signalled by sound before sight as the
distinctive noise of the purring electric motors approaches - a noise
I once heard memorably described by an old lady as sounding like a
1,000 hairdriers all blowing at once! It has provided a bit of
romantic wonder to onlookers, whether they be on adjacent trains,
stations or just near the railway line - where are the people in the
sleek never-ending white and yellow train going to, or coming from...
a romantic Parisian liason, a far-away land, a first visit to London,
or an escape away from it...

And I remember, twenty years before Eurostar, similarly timing my walks with
the dog at night so as to catch the Night Ferry cruising through Beckenham
Junction on its way to meet the boat at Dover..

--
Walter Mann

Eurostar's south London farewell
 

On 14 Nov, 20:06, "John Rowland"
wrote:
tfh of Hednesford wrote:
Anyone any idea why a Eurostar would be passing through Queenstown
Road while I was there yesterday?

Never seen one there before

see
http://tonyhunter2814.fotopic.net/p46649528.html
for photo

Wasn't that the standard route from Waterloo to North Pole Depot?

Yes, absolutely. But obviously, as of yesterday, no more.

Eurostar's south London farewell
 

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 18:57:09 +0000, Tom Anderson wrote:

This is one of the things that absolutely baffles me about the automated
signalling systems that are being deployed now - why is it the signalling
system that makes decisions about how fast a train should go, and not the
train?

I take it you are happy with the concept of double yellows?

This is basically very similar.

Eurostar's south London farewell
 

"Mizter T" wrote in message
ps.com...
On 14 Nov, 20:06, "John Rowland"
wrote:
tfh of Hednesford wrote:
Anyone any idea why a Eurostar would be passing through Queenstown
Road while I was there yesterday?

Never seen one there before

see
http://tonyhunter2814.fotopic.net/p46649528.html
for photo

Wasn't that the standard route from Waterloo to North Pole Depot?

Yes, absolutely. But obviously, as of yesterday, no more.


Heading into Waterloo at 11:10 yesterday, perfectly possible at that time.

D

Eurostar's south London farewell
 

Dave wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote:

On 14 Nov, 20:06, "John Rowland"
wrote:
tfh of Hednesford wrote:
Anyone any idea why a Eurostar would be passing through Queenstown
Road while I was there yesterday?

Never seen one there before

see
http://tonyhunter2814.fotopic.net/p46649528.html
for photo

Wasn't that the standard route from Waterloo to North Pole Depot?

Yes, absolutely. But obviously, as of yesterday, no more.


Heading into Waterloo at 11:10 yesterday, perfectly possible at that time.

D

Of course. Maybe I should have said "as of today, no more" - or indeed
"as of yesterday evening, no more" - however other posts here have
basically indicated that North Pole depot shut up shop yesterday, so
Eurostar ECS through Queenstown Road was basically a thing of the past
as soon as the last ECS move from North Pole to Waterloo Int'l
happened yesterday - and I've no idea when that was (i.e. whether
morning, afternoon or early evening)!

Eurostar's south London farewell
 

Mizter T wrote:

Of course. Maybe I should have said "as of today, no more" - or indeed
"as of yesterday evening, no more" - however other posts here have
basically indicated that North Pole depot shut up shop yesterday, so
Eurostar ECS through Queenstown Road was basically a thing of the past

No, North Pole depot is still open but Waterloo International is shut!

Eurostar's south London farewell
 

John Rowland wrote:

Mizter T wrote:

Of course. Maybe I should have said "as of today, no more" - or indeed
"as of yesterday evening, no more" - however other posts here have
basically indicated that North Pole depot shut up shop yesterday, so
Eurostar ECS through Queenstown Road was basically a thing of the past

No, North Pole depot is still open but Waterloo International is shut!

Not really John, though it depends upon what you mean by open. The
North Pole depot has basically shut up shop now, as AIUI there are no
longer any Eurostar trains there at all anymore, nor have there been
since the last Eurostar left for an an ECS move to Waterloo
International sometime on tuesday (13 Nov).

See this thread...
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....1c96be794a8b1/

....in particular the post from D7666 aka Nick where he says this

quote
[...] One piece of gen i picked up was that North Pole depot was
effectively cleared last week except for inspections on units required
for service. As of tonight it should be devoid of stock and parts
except for one barrier vehicle that is for scrap. The enhanced quasi-
border security is withdrawn at 06:00 tomorrow and from then on the
depot site is ''normal'' railway security.
/quote

I doubt there's much happening at all anymore at the North Pole depot.

Eurostar's south London farewell
 

Mizter T wrote:
John Rowland wrote:

Mizter T wrote:

Of course. Maybe I should have said "as of today, no more" - or
indeed "as of yesterday evening, no more" - however other posts
here have basically indicated that North Pole depot shut up shop
yesterday, so Eurostar ECS through Queenstown Road was basically a
thing of the past

No, North Pole depot is still open but Waterloo International is
shut!

Not really John, though it depends upon what you mean by open. The
North Pole depot has basically shut up shop now, as AIUI there are no
longer any Eurostar trains there at all anymore, nor have there been
since the last Eurostar left for an an ECS move to Waterloo
International sometime on tuesday (13 Nov).

I'm sorry, I remember all the talk about how the Eurostars would use the NLL
to get from St Pancras to North Pole, and completely missed out on the
subsequent decision to close North Pole.

Eurostar's south London farewell
 

Am Wed, 14 Nov 2007 15:21:57 UTC, schrieb "BH Williams"
auf uk.railway :

The 92s do not have KVB, unless some of those acquired by Europorte have
been so fitted- I shall enquire- but do have BR AWS/TPWS.

I thought the Class 92 locomotives are designed to run in France,
too?


Cheers,
L.W.

Eurostar's south London farewell
 

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:00:55 +0000, Ar wrote:

At least Eurostar will get less people using the service. No matter
what you say, for day trippers from the continent, St.Pancras may as
well be on the backside of the moon.

So, by your logic, lots of people also avoid going to Paris for the
day because of the location of Gare du Nord?

I suspect that most day trippers would get off the train and look at a
tube map or jump in a taxi to get to what they want to see first. As
KX/StP has more tube connections than Waterloo not only can people
reach more central London destinations in one hop, they should also be
able to find their way back to the station more comfortably.

I wonder just how many E* travellers unfamiliar with London have ended
up on the southbound Bank branch of the Northern line expecting it to
take them to Waterloo...?

Eurostar's south London farewell
 

"G" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:00:55 +0000, Ar wrote:

At least Eurostar will get less people using the service. No matter
what you say, for day trippers from the continent, St.Pancras may as
well be on the backside of the moon.

So, by your logic, lots of people also avoid going to Paris for the
day because of the location of Gare du Nord?


At Paris Nord, the move to St Pancras is advertised as taking Eurostar
nearer to Central London, which appears to confim that Eurostar think they
are now in a better location....

Paul

Eurostar's south London farewell
 

G wrote:

I wonder just how many E* travellers unfamiliar with London have ended
up on the southbound Bank branch of the Northern line expecting it to
take them to Waterloo...?

The same as the number who will now end up on the Charing Cross branch
expecting it to take them to St Pancras.

Eurostar's south London farewell
 

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 13:29:07 -0000, "John Rowland"
wrote:

G wrote:

I wonder just how many E* travellers unfamiliar with London have ended
up on the southbound Bank branch of the Northern line expecting it to
take them to Waterloo...?

The same as the number who will now end up on the Charing Cross branch
expecting it to take them to St Pancras.

Good point!

Eurostar's south London farewell
 

On Nov 13, 4:30 pm, John B wrote:
On 13 Nov, 17:00, Ar wrote:

At least Eurostar will get less people using the service. No matter
what you say, for day trippers from the continent, St.Pancras may as
well be on the backside of the moon.

I bet you ten thousand pounds that you're talking complete and utter
rubbish, and that E* visitor numbers will be higher in the year from
November 14 2007 to November 13 2008 than in the year November 14 2006
to November 13 2007.

My contact details are below, if you're shy about accepting the bet
online.


Gotta love the deafening silence that followed this one.

Jonn Elledge

Eurostar's south London farewell
 

Eurostar's south London farewell
 

"Lüko Willms" wrote in message
...
Am Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:56:38 UTC, schrieb Ar auf
uk.railway :

Anyway, for visually unintersting bordom, I think this persons video
just about sums up the new Eurostar route.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=A0GRF6d8EAg

The view is exclusively to the "outer" side, if I may say so, i.e.
away from the central parts of London. No idea how the view to the
other side might look like.

I found strange that I could see tracks to the left of the train --
the line is supposed to be double track, and on Great Britain trains
run normally on the left track. Was this video taken on one of the
test runs with volunteers? Well, after the line is opened officially
for commercial traffic, we will see more imagery and videos.


Various explanations I think. Leaving St Pancras, I don't think it becomes
normal 2 track railway until very close to the tunnel entrance, there are
various cross overs, flyunders etc to sort out the routes to the Eurostar
and Kent domestic platforms without conflicts. Through the Stratford
station 'box', the through track is the centre 1 of 3, with platform loops
either side. Between the east London tunnel portal and the Thames tunnel,
can't say. Perhaps it was wrong line working, or the videoed in up direction
and video played backwards...

Paul

Eurostar's south London farewell
 

Paul Scott wrote:

"G" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:00:55 +0000, Ar wrote:

At least Eurostar will get less people using the service. No matter
what you say, for day trippers from the continent, St.Pancras may as
well be on the backside of the moon.

So, by your logic, lots of people also avoid going to Paris for the
day because of the location of Gare du Nord?


At Paris Nord, the move to St Pancras is advertised as taking Eurostar
nearer to Central London, which appears to confim that Eurostar think they
are now in a better location....

Paul

I'd suggest that it merely confirms that is one part of their
advertising strategy.

St. Pancras and Waterloo as locations both have their plus and minus
points. I suppose there is a larger amount of potential hotel
accommodation for tourists nearer St Pancras than is the case with
Waterloo, though many of the hotels in the West End are broadly
equidistant from either station. Of course there's more Underground
lines which might help people get to where they want to go easier.

Eurostar's south London farewell
 

John Rowland wrote:

Mizter T wrote:
John Rowland wrote:

Mizter T wrote:

Of course. Maybe I should have said "as of today, no more" - or
indeed "as of yesterday evening, no more" - however other posts
here have basically indicated that North Pole depot shut up shop
yesterday, so Eurostar ECS through Queenstown Road was basically a
thing of the past

No, North Pole depot is still open but Waterloo International is
shut!

Not really John, though it depends upon what you mean by open. The
North Pole depot has basically shut up shop now, as AIUI there are no
longer any Eurostar trains there at all anymore, nor have there been
since the last Eurostar left for an an ECS move to Waterloo
International sometime on tuesday (13 Nov).

I'm sorry, I remember all the talk about how the Eurostars would use the NLL
to get from St Pancras to North Pole, and completely missed out on the
subsequent decision to close North Pole.

No problem. The decision to move to Temple Mills (or at least the firm
decision - it might have been an aspiration for a while) appears to
have been taken quite late in the day - from a quick search of
uk.railway perhaps it was taken in 2004, at the same time Eurostar
took the decision to quit Waterloo.

AIUI the new Temple Mills Eurostar depot was paid for by central
government, and in return the government will be transferred ownership
of Waterloo International (and possibly also the North Pole depot as
well) - I'm a bit hazy on this to be honest, but I'm pretty sure both
sites will come into the ownership of central government and at least
one of them was in effect a swap deal (if not both of them).

A significant benefit is that the NLL won't be clogged up with
Eurostars en-route to and from St. Pancras (and AFAICS a North Pole to
St. Pancras ECS move would require the Eurostar to be reversed on the
WLL as well, so clogging that up in the process). Other significant
benefits are securing the Waterloo Int'l terminal and the North Pole
depot for future railway use, though the North Pole depot site really
isn't at all suitable for other property developments and the Waterloo
site is hardly ideal either.

Eurostar's south London farewell
 

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...

Various explanations I think. Leaving St Pancras, I don't think it becomes
normal 2 track railway until very close to the tunnel entrance, there are
various cross overs, flyunders etc to sort out the routes to the Eurostar
and Kent domestic platforms without conflicts. Through the Stratford
station 'box', the through track is the centre 1 of 3, with platform loops
either side. Between the east London tunnel portal and the Thames tunnel,
can't say. Perhaps it was wrong line working, or the videoed in up
direction and video played backwards...

Paul

Its full BiDi.

At lest the tunnel between St.P and Stratford is anyway - that's the only
section I had anything much to do with. We still have the usual up and down,
but they can be used either way round. We would quite often be 'wrong
roaded' during testing so work could continue in the tunnel sections whilst
still running trains on the other side. My understanding it it will use the
traditional up/down now its open, and only wrong road in the event of a
problem, or other 'special' move.

Eurostar's south London farewell
 

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:18:29 -0000, "Q" ..@.. wrote:


"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...

Various explanations I think. Leaving St Pancras, I don't think it becomes
normal 2 track railway until very close to the tunnel entrance, there are
various cross overs, flyunders etc to sort out the routes to the Eurostar
and Kent domestic platforms without conflicts. Through the Stratford
station 'box', the through track is the centre 1 of 3, with platform loops
either side. Between the east London tunnel portal and the Thames tunnel,
can't say. Perhaps it was wrong line working, or the videoed in up
direction and video played backwards...

Paul

Its full BiDi.

Twiki!

Eurostar's south London farewell
 

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007, asdf wrote:

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 18:57:09 +0000, Tom Anderson wrote:

This is one of the things that absolutely baffles me about the
automated signalling systems that are being deployed now - why is it
the signalling system that makes decisions about how fast a train
should go, and not the train?

I take it you are happy with the concept of double yellows?

Yes.

This is basically very similar.

....

Could you explain how?

tom

--
Come on thunder; come on thunder.

Eurostar's south London farewell
 

In article ,
(Theo Markettos) wrote:

In uk.railway Paul Scott wrote:
Hopefully overnight tonight - I'm hoping to use that route
tomorrow...

There are no obstructions the other side of the doors, so there's
no reason it shouldn't be open tomorrow assuming all the shop fitting
out inside has finished.

It was open on the morning of the 14th but the shopfitting was far from
finished. Just 3 shops nearest to that entrance were open on Wednesday
when I looked.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Eurostar's south London farewell
 

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:05:14 +0000, Tom Anderson wrote:

This is one of the things that absolutely baffles me about the
automated signalling systems that are being deployed now - why is it
the signalling system that makes decisions about how fast a train
should go, and not the train?

I take it you are happy with the concept of double yellows?

Yes.

This is basically very similar.

...

Could you explain how?

Don't double yellows mean the train has to be going below a certain
(specified) speed on reaching the next signal?

Eurostar's south London farewell
 

Not necessarily, because it depends on how well the driver knows the line.

That double yellow is warning him that the signal ahead is yellow, after
which he really has to think of slowing down.


"asdf" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:05:14 +0000, Tom Anderson wrote:

Don't double yellows mean the train has to be going below a certain
(specified) speed on reaching the next signal?

Eurostar's south London farewell
 

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007, asdf wrote:

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 17:05:14 +0000, Tom Anderson wrote:

This is one of the things that absolutely baffles me about the
automated signalling systems that are being deployed now - why is it
the signalling system that makes decisions about how fast a train
should go, and not the train?

I take it you are happy with the concept of double yellows?

Yes.

This is basically very similar.

...

Could you explain how?

Don't double yellows mean the train has to be going below a certain
(specified) speed on reaching the next signal?

Oh, hang on, i was thinking of double yellow lines. *headdesk* I have no
idea at all what a double yellow light means.

I've kind of lost track of this thread, but isn't it the case that the
freight trains can't use the automatic signalling because the speeds are
wrong for that kind of train? So that's rather different to the double
yellow situation.

tom

--
Vegetables, rice and peas.