In article
,
D7666 writes
To a certain extent NTL (or rather whoever they call themsevles this
week ex NTL) already works like that - its actual exchanges are not
necessariliy physically located in the ''area codes'' that they serve.

The same is true for BT. The Cambridge exchanges (DLEs) serve numbers in
Ely, Newmarket, and Bury St. Edmunds among others. There are many, many
area codes in northern Scotland, but the five northernmost exchange
sites are Perth, Dundee, Aberdeen, Inverness, and Lerwick.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

On 15 Nov, 13:35, "Clive D. W. Feather" cl...@on-the-
train.demon.co.uk wrote:
I have heard that there are a handful of exchanges within
London were that does work.

I would very much doubt that, unless you're talking about PBXes. If you
can identify one, please let me know and I'll ensure it gets fixed.

Dear Clive pls can you give me the keys to your DMSU k thx

:P

Neil

--
Rehab is for quitters

On Nov 14, 10:05 pm, Adrian wrote:
On Nov 14, 1:09 pm, Mizter T wrote:



On 14 Nov, 19:25, James Farrar wrote:

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:13:02 GMT, wrote:

"contrex" wrote in message
roups.com...
On 14 Nov, 13:42, Rob wrote:
Hi

Does anyone know where I can find a comprehensive list of London
Underground ventilation shafts, used and disused? I went to a lecture
recently and they said there were 190 of them in total.

Thanks in advance

Rob Smith

If I were TFL I'd keep quiet about them. You might be a nutter or
terrorist for all we know.

Have you tried calling 0207 222 1234?

No such number.

Let me be a pedant back at you - there is such a number, the spacing
between the individual digits doesn't change the fact that if one
dialled it it would work - hence it is a valid telephone number.

Yes yes it isn't written in the 'approved' format, but thousands
(millions?) of Londoners do the same and manage just fine.

Yes, I use the 'correct' format, but I don't let the fact that others
don't wind me up! You should get over to uk.telecom - this 'mistake'
regularly has the inhabitants thereof completely frothing at the mouth
and winding each other up into a state of absolute indignation - I kid
you not!

Would that it were that simple. The implication is that one can dial
222 1234 within a notional STD code of "0207" AND expect to be
connected. I have heard that there are a handful of exchanges within
London were that does work. However the standard is now eight digit
local numbers within London. Dialing eight digits within STD code
"020" will always work.

Adrian

I'm well aware of all of this - though I'd eat my hat if there was a
public telephone exchange in London that still accepts 7-digit numbers
for local calling but I see that is being dealt with elsewhere in this
thread.

And I always just use the 8 digits to call London numbers from a
London landline. Indeed I normally give my number to other London
residents as just the 8 digits (unless perhaps they're specifically
entering into a mobile phone as I speak, though even sometimes then) -
and this can often cause confusion, so sometimes (dependent upon the
context) I might take that opportunity to briefly tell the recipient
that only 8 digits are needed for dialling within London. I also
normally write London numbers in the format (020) xxxx xxxx.

However I don't make a song or dance about it - that way lies the path
towards becoming a bore! If people use the 'wrong' format I do notice
but it isn't something that grates - life's too short to get fussed
about such inconsequential matters.

It is mildly disappointing to see the 'wrong' format used on official
documents / letterheads / signs, as I think those who work in
communications (in the PR sense rather than telco sense) should know
better, but it's hardly the end of the world.

Lastly "the kids" might well ignore any such distinction and just work
on the principle of an 11-digit number given the requirement to dial
the whole hog when using a mobile. I'd definitely point to mobile
phones as being a significant reason why the whole number is often
given - and if the whole number is given, then people care less about
breaking it down and putting the spaces in the right places.

Plus even the CLI on one of my BT brand phones connected to a BT line
displays the number incorrectly, which is a bit shabby!

On Nov 15, 8:49 pm, Adrian wrote:
On Nov 14, 6:04 pm, Pyromancer
wrote:

Why do people want to only dial part of the number? Why not just dial
the whole thing and be sure it will work from anywhere in the UK,
including mobiles?

Back in the days of electro-mechanical exchange switching and physical
connections number-shortening may have made sense, but surely by now
it's an anachronism?

If I had to take a guess, I would say that, for some countries,
telephone area codes will dissappear with a few decades. In the age
of mobile telephones and VoIP they are becoming increasingly
anachronistic.

Example: I have numbers relating to Bognor Regis, Edinburgh, Leeds,
Portsmouth, Anaheim, Beverly Hills and Reno. Very few of them connect
to telephones in the locations indicated!

Adrian

The US (or more precisely those countries participating in the North
American Numbering Plan) is an interesting case to look at.

All numbers there are stuck in being in the format (xxx) xxx xxxx,
with the first three digits being the area code. But of course there's
a massive demand for numbers as people get second lines and cell phone
numbers also exist within this numbering plan too.

So the initial solution was to split a single area code into two areas
and hence two area codes, so a group of people in one of the two areas
would then have a new area code.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_plan

But this was unpopular exactly because peoples area codes changes, so
eventually it was agreed to overlay new area codes on top of old area
codes - i.e. any particular place could be covered by two (or more)
area codes. This thus means that anyone dialling a number on another
area code - even if it's the house next door - would have to dial a 10-
digit number. And so as to ensure a level playing field between
different telecom companies, the FCC has made it compulsory for 10-
digit dialling even for local numbers in areas where there is an
overlay.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_plan

A bit of an undignified solution, not helped by the inflexible NANP
rules which mean all numbers are in the (xxx) xxx xxxx format. The
other issue of course is that there's more people - both the UK and
the NANP are fundamentally 10-digit systems, but the US alone has a
population of 300 million, compared to the UK's 60 million.

But perhaps it matters less now that more and more people are using
cell phones and hence dialling the whole number, including the area
code (though I'm unclear of whether this is necessarily the case with
all US cellular networks- an internet search didn't immediately reveal
the answer to that).

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 17:07:50 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:

And I always just use the 8 digits to call London numbers from a
London landline. Indeed I normally give my number to other London
residents as just the 8 digits

So do I, although when giving out my work number -- (020) 7580 xxxx --
the following tends to happen:

Me: "7580..." pause
Them: "07580..."

sigh

Lastly "the kids" might well ignore any such distinction and just work
on the principle of an 11-digit number given the requirement to dial
the whole hog when using a mobile. I'd definitely point to mobile
phones as being a significant reason why the whole number is often
given - and if the whole number is given, then people care less about
breaking it down and putting the spaces in the right places.

I agree with all of that.

Plus even the CLI on one of my BT brand phones connected to a BT line
displays the number incorrectly, which is a bit shabby!

One of the mobile companies -- Vodafone, I think -- that displays the
area the mobile is in on some handsets' screens displays 0207 / 0208,
too.

On Nov 15, 10:58 pm, "Clive D. W. Feather" cl...@on-the-
train.demon.co.uk wrote:

To a certain extent NTL

The same is true for BT.


I rather thought that might be the case but when working for NTL, BT
people at Oswestry seem to perceive any questions on that sort of
thing as nosiness from a competitor.

I'm sure the inof is probably in the public domain, I just never
looked for it.

--
Nick

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 22:05:15 -0000, Adrian
wrote:

The implication is that one can dial
222 1234 within a notional STD code of "0207" AND expect to be
connected. I have heard that there are a handful of exchanges within
London were that does work. However the standard is now eight digit
local numbers within London. Dialing eight digits within STD code
"020" will always work.

It's then very unlikely that dialling seven digits would ever work.
In a (notional) exchange with 020 7 numbers, how would you know
whether somebody dialling 722 2123 wanted 020 7722 2123, or whether
they were going to dial a final 4 because they wanted the travel
enquiry number? True, you could build a timeout into the system so
that it waited to see whether you'd dialled a complete number or not,
but phone numbers don't work that way - at least in the UK.

Martin

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:21:06 +0000, James Farrar
wrote:

One of the mobile companies -- Vodafone, I think -- that displays the
area the mobile is in on some handsets' screens displays 0207 / 0208,
too.

I put that down to the silly numbering conventions:

Large cities (e.g. Birmingham) = 4 digits (0121)
Provincial towns = 5 digits (e.g. 01772)
'02' numbers (e.g. London, NI, Cardiff) = 3 digits
Mobiles = 5 digits

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 12:49:29 -0800 (PST), Adrian
wrote:


If I had to take a guess, I would say that, for some countries,
telephone area codes will dissappear with a few decades.

In Spain, they already have.

--
Bill Hayles
http://www.rossrail.com

G wrote:
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:21:06 +0000, James Farrar
wrote:

One of the mobile companies -- Vodafone, I think -- that displays
the area the mobile is in on some handsets' screens displays 0207
/ 0208, too.

I put that down to the silly numbering conventions:

Large cities (e.g. Birmingham) = 4 digits (0121)
Provincial towns = 5 digits (e.g. 01772)
'02' numbers (e.g. London, NI, Cardiff) = 3 digits
Mobiles = 5 digits

Yes, most people seem to group the first five digits of a mobile number
(07xxx) together, but I'm not aware of any written convention that says
you should. Personally I quote mine as 0787 xxx xxxx because it easier
to remember that way.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)