On 25 Nov, 23:33, Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote:
In message , Ian Jelf
writes

Or should "Seniors" be 60s and over, in line with the Senior
Railcard? Since achieving that age, I have discussed this point at a
number of transport-related (e.g. preserved railway) locations. Some
sensibly say that they leave it to the individual visitor's
discretion. The most inventive solution was at the Listowel
Monorailway, where they charged me an amount midway between the full
and reduced rates!

Hmm, might be worth becoming a Friend, then- according to the leaflets
that were out last weekend, that's £20 a year and free entry.

And 10% off in the shop!

As do staff.


You're a bit like the mafia, you lot...

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007, Mizter T wrote:

On 24 Nov, 20:18, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2007, Mark Brader wrote:
Tom Anderson writes:

But do they take Oyster?

You may think you're joking,

I wasn't! It would be easy enough to do, i'd have thought, and a good
wheeze.

I think it would fall foul of regulatory issues though. I understand
that if Oyster were to be used as a cashless payment system (for non-
transport services) then it would have to be regulated by the FSA as if
it were a bank - whilst as things stand, Oyster can only be used as an
electronic ticket for travel so it doesn't fall within the scope of this
regulation.

I've heard this story too. Not totally convinced by it. Especially in this
case, where, since TfL operate the museum, the card is being used to pay
TfL, exactly as with travel.

tom

--
20 Minutes into the Future

In article ,
(Paul Terry) wrote:

In message
, Colin
Rosenstiel writes

Nightingale Lane tube station? Huh?

The name, prior to opening, of what was eventually called Clapham
South.

Oh yes. I should have remembered.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 26 Nov, 01:41, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007, Mizter T wrote:

(snip)

I think it would fall foul of regulatory issues though. I understand
that if Oyster were to be used as a cashless payment system (for non-
transport services) then it would have to be regulated by the FSA as if
it were a bank - whilst as things stand, Oyster can only be used as an
electronic ticket for travel so it doesn't fall within the scope of this
regulation.

I've heard this story too. Not totally convinced by it. Especially in this
case, where, since TfL operate the museum, the card is being used to pay
TfL, exactly as with travel.

tom


Well, I guess the point is that the card would thus be being used to
pay for something other than travel - AIUI it's the fact that the card
is only used as an electronic ticket to pay for travel that exempts it
from this regulation.

Mizter T wrote:
Well, I guess the point is that the card would thus be being used to
pay for something other than travel - AIUI it's the fact that the card
is only used as an electronic ticket to pay for travel that exempts it
from this regulation.

Starbucks [1] has a contactless payment system for coffee and Evening
Standard [2] for newspapers - neither of which are travel...

Maybe it's not the "travel" part that makes Oyster exempt, but "one use"?

If so, mobile phone companies must be stretching it a bit with phone
bills able to cover not just calls, but ringtones, games, and even
parking tickets? BT's micropayment system Click&Buy [3] too?

Maybe they're considered something like refillable gift cards from Boots
rather than bank cards, but the difference between the two can't be much
smaller than it is already.

[1] http://starbucks.co.uk/en-GB/_Card/
[2] https://www.eroscard.co.uk/index.asp
[3] http://www.epayments.bt.com/productinfo2.htm

In message
,
Mizter T writes

Well, I guess the point is that the card would thus be being used to
pay for something other than travel - AIUI it's the fact that the card
is only used as an electronic ticket to pay for travel that exempts it
from this regulation.

I'm not sure that's right. TfL certainly proposed to use Oyster as an
eCash card and got close to trialling such a system, but never went
ahead because of a lack of agreement about who would pay for processing,
allocating payments, in-store machines and the like.

AIUI, they still hope that Oyster will be used as an eCard at some time
in the future. But that hope may be overtaken by developments such as
the new Barclays "wave and pay" cards, that combine a debit card, Oyster
and eCash card on a single piece of plastic.
--
Paul Terry

On 25 Nov, 12:30, "John Salmon" wrote:
[Crossposted to uk.railway]
"Mizter T" wrote
Entry is £8, "Seniors" (presumably 65s and over) are £6.50, students
are £5.00, and following in the recent trend under-16s are free

Or should "Seniors" be 60s and over, in line with the Senior
Railcard? Since achieving that age, I have discussed this point at a
number of transport-related (e.g. preserved railway) locations. Some
sensibly say that they leave it to the individual visitor's
discretion. The most inventive solution was at the Listowel
Monorailway, where they charged me an amount midway between the full
and reduced rates!

To change the subject a little, some impressions about the content.
Starts off very well, and then finally ends up going downhill.....in a
big way.

Top floor is excellent. Large scale exhibits comprise a Sedan Chair,
the reproduction Shillibere Bus (which you can sit in!), a Thomas
Tilling Horse Bus, and a restored Horse tram. All in a diorama format
with horses and period people.

The Mezzanine Level is equally good, with a fine model dioramas on the
construction of the underground, the Beyer Peacock locomotive (you can
climb on part of the footplate), the Ashbury's carriage (you can sit
in one of the compartments), 'John Hampden' (the Metropolitan electric
locomotive), and a pre-war electric set, together with some
interesting displays on 'Metroland'.

The rest of the displays on the tube system are good, with a 'tupenny
tube' electric loco, and a padded cell, carriage (that you can sit
in). Much is made of the life and times of Frank Pick, and there is
another example of tube stock to explore.

Then.....disaster strikes. There has been an immense cull of the
previous buses and trams. One electric tram, not representative of
either LCC or LPTB. One trolleybus. An 'Old Bill' type General bus,
and a taxicab. On the other side of the hall, a Greenline coach, a
Routemaster, and a front entrance bus. So where are the rest?
Apparently, at their large exhibits store. which is sometimes open to
the public.

So, given top and mezzanine levels, what has happened to the rest of
the space? Well, there's a cafe/picnic area (in addition to the cafe
in the new wing), a chidren's play area, but most of the space is
given over to a lot of rather fatuous displays about the future of
transport in London, most of which take up far too much space.

Why? The average public, including the children, would much prefer to
see more vehicles. A triumph of the designer over the curator,
methinks....

Dr. Barry Worthington

Dr. Barry Worthington ("Dr. Barry Worthington" )
gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Then.....disaster strikes.

So, given top and mezzanine levels, what has happened to the rest of the
space?

but most of the space is given over to a lot of rather fatuous displays
about the future of transport in London, most of which take up far too
much space.

Why? The average public, including the children, would much prefer to
see more vehicles. A triumph of the designer over the curator,
methinks....

Sounds more like a triumph of the politico/PR man over the curator...

At 04:00:38 on Mon, 26 Nov 2007 Dr. Barry Worthington opined:-

On 25 Nov, 12:30, "John Salmon" wrote:
[Crossposted to uk.railway]
"Mizter T" wrote
Entry is £8, "Seniors" (presumably 65s and over) are £6.50, students
are £5.00, and following in the recent trend under-16s are free

Or should "Seniors" be 60s and over, in line with the Senior
Railcard? Since achieving that age, I have discussed this point at a
number of transport-related (e.g. preserved railway) locations. Some
sensibly say that they leave it to the individual visitor's
discretion. The most inventive solution was at the Listowel
Monorailway, where they charged me an amount midway between the full
and reduced rates!

To change the subject a little, some impressions about the content.
Starts off very well, and then finally ends up going downhill.....in a
big way.

Top floor is excellent. Large scale exhibits comprise a Sedan Chair,
the reproduction Shillibere Bus (which you can sit in!), a Thomas
Tilling Horse Bus, and a restored Horse tram. All in a diorama format
with horses and period people.

The Mezzanine Level is equally good, with a fine model dioramas on the
construction of the underground, the Beyer Peacock locomotive (you can
climb on part of the footplate), the Ashbury's carriage (you can sit
in one of the compartments), 'John Hampden' (the Metropolitan electric
locomotive), and a pre-war electric set, together with some
interesting displays on 'Metroland'.

The rest of the displays on the tube system are good, with a 'tupenny
tube' electric loco, and a padded cell, carriage (that you can sit
in). Much is made of the life and times of Frank Pick, and there is
another example of tube stock to explore.

Then.....disaster strikes. There has been an immense cull of the
previous buses and trams. One electric tram, not representative of
either LCC or LPTB. One trolleybus. An 'Old Bill' type General bus,
and a taxicab. On the other side of the hall, a Greenline coach, a
Routemaster, and a front entrance bus. So where are the rest?
Apparently, at their large exhibits store. which is sometimes open to
the public.

So, given top and mezzanine levels, what has happened to the rest of
the space? Well, there's a cafe/picnic area (in addition to the cafe
in the new wing), a chidren's play area, but most of the space is
given over to a lot of rather fatuous displays about the future of
transport in London, most of which take up far too much space.

Why? The average public, including the children, would much prefer to
see more vehicles. A triumph of the designer over the curator,
methinks....

That seems to be the way museums are going nowadays. Have you been to
the Science Museum lately? Serious science exhibits have been banished
in favour of kids' toys.
--
Thoss

On 26 Nov, 13:23, thoss wrote:
At 04:00:38 on Mon, 26 Nov 2007 Dr. Barry Worthington opined:-





On 25 Nov, 12:30, "John Salmon" wrote:
[Crossposted to uk.railway]
"Mizter T" wrote
Entry is £8, "Seniors" (presumably 65s and over) are £6.50, students
are £5.00, and following in the recent trend under-16s are free

Or should "Seniors" be 60s and over, in line with the Senior
Railcard? Since achieving that age, I have discussed this point at a
number of transport-related (e.g. preserved railway) locations. Some
sensibly say that they leave it to the individual visitor's
discretion. The most inventive solution was at the Listowel
Monorailway, where they charged me an amount midway between the full
and reduced rates!

To change the subject a little, some impressions about the content.
Starts off very well, and then finally ends up going downhill.....in a
big way.

Top floor is excellent. Large scale exhibits comprise a Sedan Chair,
the reproduction Shillibere Bus (which you can sit in!), a Thomas
Tilling Horse Bus, and a restored Horse tram. All in a diorama format
with horses and period people.

The Mezzanine Level is equally good, with a fine model dioramas on the
construction of the underground, the Beyer Peacock locomotive (you can
climb on part of the footplate), the Ashbury's carriage (you can sit
in one of the compartments), 'John Hampden' (the Metropolitan electric
locomotive), and a pre-war electric set, together with some
interesting displays on 'Metroland'.

The rest of the displays on the tube system are good, with a 'tupenny
tube' electric loco, and a padded cell, carriage (that you can sit
in). Much is made of the life and times of Frank Pick, and there is
another example of tube stock to explore.

Then.....disaster strikes. There has been an immense cull of the
previous buses and trams. One electric tram, not representative of
either LCC or LPTB. One trolleybus. An 'Old Bill' type General bus,
and a taxicab. On the other side of the hall, a Greenline coach, a
Routemaster, and a front entrance bus. So where are the rest?
Apparently, at their large exhibits store. which is sometimes open to
the public.

So, given top and mezzanine levels, what has happened to the rest of
the space? Well, there's a cafe/picnic area (in addition to the cafe
in the new wing), a chidren's play area, but most of the space is
given over to a lot of rather fatuous displays about the future of
transport in London, most of which take up far too much space.

Why? The average public, including the children, would much prefer to
see more vehicles. A triumph of the designer over the curator,
methinks....

That seems to be the way museums are going nowadays. Have you been to
the Science Museum lately? Serious science exhibits have been banished
in favour of kids' toys.


Dumbed down, along with school examinations, university "degrees", the
broadcast media, newspapers and magazines, all to suit the reducing
average intelligence of the population.