"thoss" wrote in message
...
At 04:00:38 on Mon, 26 Nov 2007 Dr. Barry Worthington opined:-

That seems to be the way museums are going nowadays. Have you been to
the Science Museum lately? Serious science exhibits have been banished
in favour of kids' toys.

Sadly this is the case. The same thing applies to the NRM in York to some
extent and certainly to the excellent Tim Hunkin "How television works"
displays at the Bradford Museum of Photography, Film and Television. If
museums are to be made more appealing to children, there need to be other
museums for people who want serious scientific exhibits which provide
*information* and *explanation* as opposed just to fun and entertainment.

Sometimes "kids' toys" can be very informative, though. There was a
temporary exhibition at the Science Museum a few years ago about
aerodynamics and what makes a plane fly. They had a miniature wind tunnel
with foam wing sections which you could put your arm through to experience
the forces of drag and lift, and the concept of stalling if you increase the
angle of attack too far. Similarly they had an excellent demonstration of
the complicated swash plate linkage on a helicopter which changes the pitch
of each blade as the rotor turns so as it give more lift at one side,
rolling and pitching the helicopter. What as shame that this exhibition was
only temporary.

Dr. Barry Worthington wrote:

The average public, including the children, would much prefer to
see more vehicles.

Yebbut there needs to be a balance. Sometimes there are so many exhibits
in transport museums that one can't get a good look at them. I certainly
came away from the transport museum in Zurich with that feeling, and I
think it's true of the exhibits that are clustered around the turntable
in the NRM Great Hall as well. (I'm not suggesting the problem is easy
to solve, BTW.)
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p9683711.html
(Class 120 unit at Manchester Victoria, Jun 1985)

Sadly this is the case. The same thing applies to the NRM in York to some
extent and certainly to the excellent Tim Hunkin "How television works"
displays at the Bradford Museum of Photography, Film and Television.

That'll be the National Media Museum- they've embraced the 21st
century and added the internet to their remit, but also included radio
as a counterbalance. My guess (at least for the Science Museum and
its outposts) would be that their exhibits nowadays are arranged on
the basis that they have to assume more or less total ignorance on the
part of the visitor. Similarly, the LT museum probably operates on
the basis that they have to have a Routemaster because people expect
to see one, with no real understanding of the context or of the old
London Transport as an organisation which set itself out to sponsor
advances in British design and engineering. It's a pity they don't
have space to do something like the Glasgow transport museum and have
a mock-up Underground station at least- perhaps Acton needs to be
built up to be the enthusiasts' centre with Covent Garden as the
general interest base for tourists.

Dr. Barry Worthington wrote:
Why? The average public, including the children, would much prefer to
see more vehicles.

Really? The biggest problem with the old layout (for me at least) was
that it had too many very similar buses/trams, and it just got dull
very quickly. The current selection seems about right given the size
of the space. I just wish the non-vehicle exhibits were more
imaginative.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

"Ianigsy" wrote in message
...
Sadly this is the case. The same thing applies to the NRM in York to some
extent and certainly to the excellent Tim Hunkin "How television works"
displays at the Bradford Museum of Photography, Film and Television.

That'll be the National Media Museum- they've embraced the 21st
century and added the internet to their remit, but also included radio
as a counterbalance. My guess (at least for the Science Museum and
its outposts) would be that their exhibits nowadays are arranged on
the basis that they have to assume more or less total ignorance on the
part of the visitor. Similarly, the LT museum probably operates on
the basis that they have to have a Routemaster because people expect
to see one, with no real understanding of the context or of the old
London Transport as an organisation which set itself out to sponsor
advances in British design and engineering. It's a pity they don't
have space to do something like the Glasgow transport museum and have
a mock-up Underground station at least- perhaps Acton needs to be
built up to be the enthusiasts' centre with Covent Garden as the
general interest base for tourists.

Perhaps some well financed enthusiasts could tunnel from Charing Cross
(Jubilee) to Aldwych, and set up a preserved line...

Paul

David of Broadway wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:09:41 +0000, Paul Scott wrote:

Perhaps some well financed enthusiasts could tunnel from Charing
Cross (Jubilee) to Aldwych, and set up a preserved line...

Charing Cross seems to me to be an excellent location for a museum
annex, with two tracks available for static car displays.

... except that it does get used from time to time for reversing trains when
the Jubilee service is suspended south of (east of?) Green Park.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:01:15 -0500, David of Broadway wrote:

Perhaps some well financed enthusiasts could tunnel from Charing Cross
(Jubilee) to Aldwych, and set up a preserved line...

Charing Cross seems to me to be an excellent location for a museum annex,
with two tracks available for static car displays. The station is
presumably still reasonably accessible, and it's even in walking distance
of the main museum at Covent Garden.

So is Aldwych. And that happens to have a fully usable running line...

On 27 Nov, 00:01, David of Broadway
wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:09:41 +0000, Paul Scott wrote:
Perhaps some well financed enthusiasts could tunnel from Charing Cross
(Jubilee) to Aldwych, and set up a preserved line...

Charing Cross seems to me to be an excellent location for a museum annex,
with two tracks available for static car displays. The station is
presumably still reasonably accessible, and it's even in walking distance
of the main museum at Covent Garden.

I've modeled this idea on the New York Transit Museum, which is housed in
a decommissioned terminal station. The platform level has a static car
display while the other exhibits are on the mezzanine level. The museum
buses are, unfortunately, kept off-site, and are only brought out for
special events. (snip)

OK, where do I start!

Charing Cross Tube station is sill very much open for business on the
Northern and Bakerloo lines, it is only the Jubilee line that is now
closed to passengers (since 1999 and the Jubilee line extension
diverted the line from Green Park to Westminster and then on east).
However the Jubilee platforms are still used fairly regularly as a
useful place to reverse trains if there's been some fowl-up somewhere
on the line.

So that's the first problem. The second is that there isn't actually
much space down there - sure, there's two full length platforms but
these are of the deep-level tube type, with an associated central
concourse tunnel and a set of escalators (and a number of other
passageways - I forget the layout). But this isn't any significant
amount of space whatsoever - no mezzanine level or anything like that,
so it's not a similar space to the New York Transit Museum (at least
going by the the photos I've just looked at on the net).

I'm also quite sure that even if these two intractable problems with
this plan somehow weren't intractable, there'd be no desire to have
museum goers intermingling with passengers within the station, as
there isn't any independent access to the platforms other than through
the station complex.

Then of course there'd be the issue of actually getting the rolling
stock to those platforms - bearing in mind that the LU lines aren't
that interconnected, and that increasingly each of the deep-level tube
lines are set up to use their specific stock only. Moving other stuff
around is certainly possible under an engineering possession (perhaps
with the need to use battery locos), but as you can see things are
getting complicated. And of course only deep-level tube stock would
actually fit down there!

So I dare suggest the Charing Cross annexe isn't at the top of the LT
Museum curator's to-do list!

Mizter T wrote:

So I dare suggest the Charing Cross annexe isn't at the top of the LT
Museum curator's to-do list!

A tube platform is unsuitable anyway, because the surface stock wouldn't
fit, and you could only have a dozen or so carriages in a two platform
station.

repeating myself There are two soon-to-be-unused tracks stretching from
Farringdon to Moorgate, passing a short walk from the Museum Of London. The
tracks are probably large enough for everything - I'm sure even A-stock
would fit.

David of Broadway wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 01:07:38 +0000, John Rowland wrote:

Mizter T wrote:

So I dare suggest the Charing Cross annexe isn't at the top of the
LT Museum curator's to-do list!

A tube platform is unsuitable anyway, because the surface stock
wouldn't fit, and you could only have a dozen or so carriages in a
two platform station.

Tube stock is better than no stock. And a dozen carriages would be
great!

repeating myself There are two soon-to-be-unused tracks stretching
from Farringdon to Moorgate, passing a short walk from the Museum Of
London. The tracks are probably large enough for everything - I'm
sure even A-stock would fit.

Ah - excellent point! That gets us static displays on two tracks at
Moorgate and Barbican - much better than Charing Cross alone. Will
the tracks remain connected to the Thameslink line at Farrington?

No, but since they are alongside the Met, that wouldn't be a problem. I was
thinking that one track would be turned into a "platform" stretching from
Farringdon to Moorgate, and the other would be filled with trains.