Hi,
I'm mildly disappointed in the lack of connections the GOBLin line has
with tube lines (very mildly - it's not one of the things that causes
me to lose sleep, but it is a shame.)
It crosses four tube lines (Cebtral, Victoria, Piccadilly and
Northern), yet only connects with one and that's only because the
Victoria line was built to connect with it.
I was wondering, was the GOBLin built after the tube lines? Does
anyone know the rationale behind its route? Have there ever been plans
to connect it with the lines it crosses? Which came first: the GOBLin
or the tube lines?!
All the best,
LackOsleep.

On 27 Nov, 14:00, wrote:
Hi,
I'm mildly disappointed in the lack of connections the GOBLin line has
with tube lines (very mildly - it's not one of the things that causes
me to lose sleep, but it is a shame.)
It crosses four tube lines (Cebtral, Victoria, Piccadilly and
Northern), yet only connects with one and that's only because the
Victoria line was built to connect with it.

I think until changes due to Thameslink in 1981 the GOBlin ran into
Kentish Town rather than Gospel Oak, and used to connect with the
Northern line there.
Even further in the past there was a station at Junction Road near to
Tufnell Park Northern line station. The area needed for rebuilding the
platforms there is still available and there is a development site on
the north side. If London Borough of Islington or the London
Development Agency were interested they could get private developers
to contribute to its rebuilding, e.g. including wheelchair ramps on
neighbouring land.

Dominic

wrote:

I was wondering, was the GOBLin built after the tube lines? Does
anyone know the rationale behind its route?

That's a little tricky as the current route wasn't determined until 1981
when the western ending switched from Kentish Town (needed for what became
Thameslink) and routed to Gospel Oak (this is probably also why the platform
layout at Gospel Oak means any through service running onto the North London
Line can't actually call at Gospel Oak). At one stage the line used to run
down to Moorgate via St Pancras and the Widened Lines.

Have there ever been plans
to connect it with the lines it crosses? Which came first: the GOBLin
or the tube lines?!

Most of the GOBLIN predates the tubelines, but as noted above the actual
current GOBLIN route is modern. There was a Northern Line connection at
Kentish Town but this was lost when the end was switched.

There's a walkable interchange between Leytonstone High Road and Leytonstone
on the Central Line, but this has never to my knowledge been officially
regarded as a valid one. (Nor for that matter is Forest Gate - Wanstead Park
despite the two stations being in sight of each other.) Also the Central
Line at Leytonstone took over an existing railway line that predated the
GOBLIN.

Part of the problem with existing overground interchanges, quite apart from
the competitive nature of pre 1923 railways actively discouraging this sort
of thing, is that the GOBLIN was largely built through existing built-up
areas so often didn't have the luxury of being designed to join up the dots
of other stations. The Picadilly Line similarly was in private hands when it
was built and is also underground - again not conducive to interchange.

In message
,
writes

I was wondering, was the GOBLin built after the tube lines? Does
anyone know the rationale behind its route?

The GOBLIN, as known today, has existed only since about 1981. It is an
amalgam of various bits of other lines, although the South Tottenham to
Forest Gate section was built in 1894 (at the encouragement of a
property speculator) to join the Midland Railway with the London,
Tilbury and Southend. Service patterns have been very varied over the
years, including some trains to and from St Pancras and Moorgate - none
of which proved to be particularly popular.

Passenger services were threatened with closure for many decades and
have long been very poor, and the route is (or was) more useful for
freight - hence, very little reason for tube interchange. Of course,
things are now changing ...
--
Paul Terry

On 27 Nov, 14:00, wrote:
It crosses four tube lines (Cebtral, Victoria, Piccadilly and
Northern), yet only connects with one and that's only because the
Victoria line was built to connect with it.
I was wondering, was the GOBLin built after the tube lines?

Going line by line:
- The Northern Line was built to interchange with it, at Kentish Town,
which has since been removed from the route.
- The Goblin was built after the Central Line station (though it
wasn't the Central Line then), and the Goblin station is about as
close as it could be without completely changing the Goblin's route.
- The Piccadilly Line people chose to connect with tram interchanges
at Manor House and Turnpike Lane instead. At the time, they were
trying to improve journey times along the whole line by closing
stations, so three stations in the area would have been considered
excessive.
- The Victoria Line crosses it near Seven Sisters (I believe it stays
north of the Goblin all the way to Walthamstow Central). There is a
reasonable interchange between South Tottenham and Seven Sisters.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, Paul Terry wrote:

In message
,
writes

I was wondering, was the GOBLin built after the tube lines? Does
anyone know the rationale behind its route?

The GOBLIN, as known today, has existed only since about 1981. It is an
amalgam of various bits of other lines, although the South Tottenham to
Forest Gate section was built in 1894 (at the encouragement of a
property speculator) to join the Midland Railway with the London,
Tilbury and Southend.

Before that bit was built, where did the line go? Terminate at South
Tottenham? Now-lost curve up the West Anglia? Existing curve down the West
Anglia? Up via Harringay to THE NORTH, with the bit to South Tottenham
being added later?

Something that would be truly awesome would be a historical map of all
London's railways, a bit like what CULG does for the tube in textual form,
but done as an animated GIF (or flash or whatever), so you can see the
lines snaking out, joining up, rotting away, etc.

A bit like what microtubules do:

http://www.cumc.columbia.edu/dept/gs...stability.html
http://www.cumc.columbia.edu/dept/gs...sport_mts.html
http://www.borisylab.northwestern.edu/pages/movies.html

tom

--
Pizza: cheap, easy, and portable. Oh, wait, that's me. Never mind. -- edda

On 27 Nov, 15:21, Mr Thant
wrote:
On 27 Nov, 14:00, wrote:

It crosses four tube lines (Cebtral, Victoria, Piccadilly and
Northern), yet only connects with one and that's only because the
Victoria line was built to connect with it.
I was wondering, was the GOBLin built after the tube lines?

Going line by line:
- The Northern Line was built to interchange with it, at Kentish Town,
which has since been removed from the route.
- The Goblin was built after the Central Line station (though it
wasn't the Central Line then), and the Goblin station is about as
close as it could be without completely changing the Goblin's route.
- The Piccadilly Line people chose to connect with tram interchanges
at Manor House and Turnpike Lane instead. At the time, they were
trying to improve journey times along the whole line by closing
stations, so three stations in the area would have been considered
excessive.
- The Victoria Line crosses it near Seven Sisters (I believe it stays
north of the Goblin all the way to Walthamstow Central). There is a
reasonable interchange between South Tottenham and Seven Sisters.

U


One useful change not mentioned yet (in this thread at least, though
we've certainly been here before!) is the Upper Holloway to Archway/
Northern line (non-)interchange.

What is the best term for describing such an interchange - an out-of-
station interchange might be a good one, but in ticketing terminology
that means a journey where a change that involves transfer between
stations on the street can be completed on a single ticket. Using the
phrase 'out-of-station interchange' where through tickets might not be
valid would perhaps just serve to confuse things.

On 27 Nov, 15:38, Tom Anderson wrote:
Before that bit was built, where did the line go? Terminate at South
Tottenham? Now-lost curve up the West Anglia? Existing curve down the West
Anglia? Up via Harringay to THE NORTH, with the bit to South Tottenham
being added later?

Missing north curve to Tottenham Hale.

Something that would be truly awesome would be a historical map of all
London's railways,

On the internet, no one knows you're cribbing everything from the
London Railway Atlas:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/London-Railw.../dp/0711031371

Here's the relevant section:
http://tinyurl.com/yrhyqt

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, Mr Thant wrote:

On 27 Nov, 14:00, wrote:

It crosses four tube lines (Cebtral, Victoria, Piccadilly and
Northern), yet only connects with one and that's only because the
Victoria line was built to connect with it. I was wondering, was the
GOBLin built after the tube lines?

- The Victoria Line crosses it near Seven Sisters (I believe it stays
north of the Goblin all the way to Walthamstow Central). There is a
reasonable interchange between South Tottenham and Seven Sisters.

Er, Blackhorse Road?

tom

--
10 PARTY : GOTO 10

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007, Mizter T wrote:

One useful change not mentioned yet (in this thread at least, though
we've certainly been here before!) is the Upper Holloway to Archway/
Northern line (non-)interchange.

What is the best term for describing such an interchange

Outerchange?

tom

--
10 PARTY : GOTO 10