On 16 Dec, 09:07, Mike Bristow wrote:

Mizter T wrote:

How expensive would electrifying the GOBLIN be? I guess the follow on
to that question is why does it cost as much as that?

TfL have suggested to the line's user group[1] that it would cost up
to 40 million quid. They are not belived.

[1] http://www.barking-gospeloak.org.uk/


Thanks.

If the figures are from TfL then I would have (more) faith in them
than from another source (such as the DfT). TfL were keen on having
the GOBLIN electrified, and probably still are, it's just that they
don't have that kind of cash just sitting about - it would need to
come from the DfT (a large chunk of it at least). I wouldn't consider
TfL are the ones who put the brakes on with regards to this, it would
have been the DfT.

Simply because the GOBLIN is getting new diesel passenger trains, this
doesn't mean that TfL have given up on the idea. Bear in mind that
those new trains will be owned by a ROSCO, not TfL, so they're less of
a commitment.

I suspect that TfL will be keen to play a slow game on this one,
demonstrating the repressed passenger demand on the NLL that is
blocked from expanding because of the heavy freight traffic, and also
demonstrating their competence with regards to running London
Overground. I think they'll gradually be building their case on this
issue, in the hope of eventually getting government funding to
electrify the GOBLIN.

On 15 Dec, 23:09, "Clive D. W. Feather" cl...@on-the-
train.demon.co.uk wrote:
In article
,
Mizter T writes

[*] Does anyone know what this junction west of Dalston, where the
ELLX will join the NLL, will be called - presumably the same as what
was it called back when it was open?

It was called Dalston Western Junction. The other junction on the NLL
was Dalston Eastern Junction. Dalston Junction signal box was at the
south end of the station, where the two curves met. In diagram form
(east at the top):

|
* Dalston Eastern Jn
|\
| \ Dalston Junction (# = station)
| \--###\
| /--###*------ to Haggerston
| //--###*------
|//
** Dalston Western Jn
||

From west to east, the six tracks through the station we
platform 1: Down No. 2 (Electric)
platform 2: Up No. 2 (Electric)
platform 3: Down No. 1 (Steam)
platform 4: Up No. 1 (Steam)
platform 5: Down Poplar
platform 6: Up Poplar



Thanks Clive, much appreciated.

In fact you've jogged my memory - I've a feeling that there is still
an NSE era sign on the signalbox west of Dalston Kingsland that
declares "Dalston Western Junction" - I'll keep my eyes open next time
I pass through!

Mizter T wrote:

Going back to something you said - I had never considered the
possibility of a line north from Dalston Jn towards Stoke Newington,
meeting the Great Eastern line there. Of course now it ain't possible,
given all the stuff in the way, but I wonder if it was ever
considered. Probably not, given that the Stoke Newington line leads
down to Liverpool Street which was bang slap next door to the now
demolished Broad Street, terminus of the line from Dalston Jn.
Nonetheless it would have been a shorter and hence quicker route into
the City, avoiding the detour via Hackney and Bethnal Green that the
Great Eastern route takes.

The Forest Line proposal was to extend the W&C to Broad St - Dalston
Junction - Dalston East Junction - Hackney Wick - Clapton - Chingford. It
never got off page one of the study which produced it (1960s or so).

The Forest Line proposal was to extend the W&C to Broad St - Dalston
Junction - Dalston East Junction - Hackney Wick - Clapton - Chingford. It
never got off page one of the study which produced it (1960s or so).

How was it supposed to get to Broad Street without going through the
Bank of England's vaults, or the Escalator/lift shafts for the central
line?

On 16 Dec, 16:18, Mizter T wrote:

In fact you've jogged my memory - I've a feeling that there is still
an NSE era sign on the signalbox west of Dalston Kingsland that
declares "Dalston Western Junction" - I'll keep my eyes open next time
I pass through!

I saw it today, and it just says 'Western Junction', i.e. no
'Dalston'. I think the original sign was the same, but I'm not
absolutely certain. I believe the three actual junctions were named
'Dalston Western Junction', 'Dalston Eastern Junction' and 'Dalston
Junction'.

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007, Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

In article ,
(Tom Anderson) wrote:

You're right about a cross-country link, but it's not Oxford to
Cambridge, it's from Ipswich to Nuneaton. The tracks are there, but the
route isn't suitable for freight trains. If it was, traffic between
Felixstowe and the West Midlands (which is most of the traffic through
Felixstowe) could go that way rather than via London.

Er, it's not W10 gauge and can't therefore take 9'6" containers on
standard wagons but it carries a good deal of freight, I can assure you!

Apologies! I may be slightly guilty of "if it ain't high cube, it ain't
freight (and well wagons are cheating)" thinking.

tom

--
Jim-Jammity Jesus Krispy Kreme Christ on a ****-rocket!

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007, John Rowland wrote:

Mizter T wrote:

Going back to something you said - I had never considered the
possibility of a line north from Dalston Jn towards Stoke Newington,
meeting the Great Eastern line there.

The Forest Line proposal was to extend the W&C to Broad St - Dalston
Junction - Dalston East Junction - Hackney Wick - Clapton - Chingford.
It never got off page one of the study which produced it (1960s or so).

Interesting. Presumably, the portal was to have been south of Dalston?

Are you sure about Dalston - Hackney Wick - Clapton - Chingford? Do you
mean Downs rather than Wick? Or perhaps by Clapton you're referring to Lea
Bridge station? The former would involve a curve at Hackney Downs that
doesn't exist now and seems like it would be a bit awkward; the latter
would be a rather circuitous route for Chingfordites.

tom

--
Jim-Jammity Jesus Krispy Kreme Christ on a ****-rocket!

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007, Peter Masson wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote

OK, excuse me for being a bit dense, I haven't entirely got my head
around these new post-ELLX arrangements on the NLL yet.

December Modern Railways suggests:

Basically, the ELL won't actually join the NLL at Dalston, it'll just turn
and run alongside it to Highbury & Islington. They'll be completely
segregated (although there may be connections, they won't be in use in
normal service, if i've got this right).

I draw myself a diagram to work this out, so i thought i'd share it, only
then i thought i'd draw it more nicely first. I hope you all appreciate
this:

http://flickr.com/photos/twic/2115244713/

It omits lots of things.

Dalston to Highbury & Islington ELLX will have the southern pair and NLL
the northern pair (doubled from Canonbury) with 4 platforms at each of
Canonbury and H&I. ELLX will terminate in the platforms at H&I, though
Dalston Junction will have 4 platforms, with the outer tracks for
through trains to/from H&I and the inner pair for trains that terminate
at Dalston Junction.

From H&I to Camden Road the NLL will have 4 tracks, the southern pair
westbound and the northern pair eastbound (though two tracks will have
reversible signalling, presumably to allow service to continue if one
pair is blocked for maintenance). Canonbury is shown as having three
platforms (no platform face on the northernmost line,

By 'Canonbury', do you mean 'Caledonian Road & Barnsbury'?

tom

--
Jim-Jammity Jesus Krispy Kreme Christ on a ****-rocket!

On 15 Dec, 20:56, Mizter T wrote:
As the photographer speculates, perhaps both the eastern and western
curves were safeguarded from development?

Yes they are. A route to the eastern curve is included in the new
design for Dalston Junction. What I can't figure out is how access to
the Kingsland shopping centre car park and loading bays would work.
It doesn't appear to have been designed in in obvious way.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

On 16 Dec, 20:21, Tom Anderson wrote:
I draw myself a diagram to work this out, so i thought i'd share it, only
then i thought i'd draw it more nicely first. I hope you all appreciate
this:

http://flickr.com/photos/twic/2115244713/

I'd think Camden Road would stick with having a side platform on the
southernmost line, an island right in the middle, with two new tracks
the north of that. Possibly a similar thing at all the other stations
(except Dalston Junction).

Am I right in thinking the use will alternate freight/passenger/
freight/passenger north-to-south, rather than f/p/p/f or p/f/f/p?

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London