On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 03:41:45 -0800 (PST), Paul Oter
wrote:

An annual (standard class) season ticket from Cambridge to London
Terminals is £3640 and to London Zones R1256 is £4600, a difference of
£960.

If you simply commute on working days only to a Zone 1 underground
station and use a pre-pay OysterCard, the annual cost of your tube
travel would be about £1.50 x 2 x 5 x 48 which is £720. So even if you
make occasional additional journeys at weekends, beyond Zone 1 or on
the bus it might be cheaper to get a London Terminals ticket and use a
pre-pay OysterCard.

The pricing difference did strike me as slightly mad for the majority
of commuters who will be doing exactly as you say, just two trips on
the tube. I suppose they rely on people not doing the maths.

However I need to travel around London for work and will be making
more than 2 journeys per day (and out as far as zone 6), so the London
Zones R1256 ticket will work out cheaper.

The reason why I was interested in seeing if the travelcard could be
put on Oyster was twofold.

Firstly, there seem to be more and more tube ticket barriers that
don't accept paper tickets. And it is always when you are in a hurry.

Secondly, using a £4,600 ticket multiple times every day increases the
risk of loss and the problem that they will only replace one lost
(expensive) ticket.

JB

On Jan 12, 11:29*am, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 16:37:20 -0800 (PST), MIG

wrote:
If so, that means that anyone who declines to have all his/her
movements tracked will no longer be able to get anything longer than a
weekly and will have to pay more, as on LU already. *You can't have a
monthly unless your card is registered.

AIUI you can't have a monthly season ticket of any kind without giving
your details in. *The purpose of this is to allow the issue of
replacements[1], mind, not to track particular tickets.

[1] Got my first ever replacement season yesterday after my old one
got drenched in the downpour and refused to open any barriers after
that...


This is true, but that exists on paper at the ticket office where you
bought it.

That means that IF you are arrested on suspicion of a crime, the
police could link the ticket in your pocket to the details held at the
station where you bought it and to any record that exists of it
passing through barriers. This would require a positive effort and
would depend on you being picked up with the ticket in your
possession.

With smartcards, your movements (and purchases in future) are being
recorded passively and stored in a database. At any time, any
authority could choose to identify all individuals with a pattern of
behaviour deemed to be of interest to them.

That's dramatically different.

On Jan 12, 11:58 am, tony sayer wrote:
In article
s.com, Paul Oter scribeth thus
(commuting from Cambridge to London)

PaulO

BTW.. Are the barriers at Cambridge operational as yet?..


The flaps have now been fitted so they appear finished. But I haven't
seen them in operation yet (and I use them every weekday).

PaulO

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 05:45:31 -0800 (PST), MIG
wrote:

This is true, but that exists on paper at the ticket office where you
bought it.

AIUI, on ex-Silverlink it is stored in a database, though I don't
believe that database is carried across between stations (though I am
registered at three - Euston, MK Central and Bletchley as I often
renew mine at any of the three).

With smartcards, your movements (and purchases in future) are being
recorded passively and stored in a database. At any time, any
authority could choose to identify all individuals with a pattern of
behaviour deemed to be of interest to them.

That's dramatically different.

This is true.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Jan 12, 12:36 pm, JB wrote:
The reason why I was interested in seeing if the travelcard could be
put on Oyster was twofold.

Firstly, there seem to be more and more tube ticket barriers that
don't accept paper tickets. And it is always when you are in a hurry.

The gates at King's Cross Underground (especially the ones in the
Western Ticket Hall) are notoriously bad at accepting paper tickets.
Many of them will only take the ticket is you push it in quite hard,
others refuse to accept it altogether. I have got into the habit of
identifying a particular gate that seems to work properly and using it
each day, though even that doesn't always work.

Secondly, using a £4,600 ticket multiple times every day increases the
risk of loss and the problem that they will only replace one lost
(expensive) ticket.

Yes, I agree. Though we'll still have to feed our paper tickets
through the gates at Cambridge when leaving (but not entering) King's
Cross platforms 9/10/11.

PaulO

Does this mean that paper travelcards will cease being available at NR
stations in London?

If so, that means that anyone who declines to have all his/her
movements tracked will no longer be able to get anything longer than a
weekly and will have to pay more, as on LU already. You can't have a
monthly unless your card is registered.

In these days of "Environmental Enlightenment", many would see ticketless
travel as a resonable goal. I guess its just that "registered" bit that
causes trouble, what is the official reason for it over a scheme where you
could *choose* to register for added protection if you wanted?

Personally, I don't mind if anyone looks at my journey history. I doubt they
would make an awful lot of sense of it anyway, as Oyster seems to cock up
constantly anyway.

Best Wishes,
LEWIS

On Jan 12, 4:15*pm, "Lew 1"
wrote:
Does this mean that paper travelcards will cease being available at NR
stations in London?

If so, that means that anyone who declines to have all his/her
movements tracked will no longer be able to get anything longer than a
weekly and will have to pay more, as on LU already. *You can't have a
monthly unless your card is registered.

In these days of "Environmental Enlightenment", many would see ticketless
travel as a resonable goal. I guess its just that "registered" bit that
causes trouble, what is the official reason for it over a scheme where you
could *choose* to register for added protection if you wanted?

Personally, I don't mind if anyone looks at my journey history. I doubt they
would make an awful lot of sense of it anyway, as Oyster seems to cock up
constantly anyway.

It's not really about a person looking at your journey history, it's
more about governments*, corporations and security services using data-
mining to find patterns. Eg, everyone whose Oyster shows an arrival
at a station near the start of every year's Gay Pride march and other
specific events.

*including less benign ones at any time in the future

In message , at 16:15:49 on Sat, 12 Jan 2008, Lew
1 remarked:
In these days of "Environmental Enlightenment", many would see ticketless
travel as a resonable goal. I guess its just that "registered" bit that
causes trouble, what is the official reason for it over a scheme where you
could *choose* to register for added protection if you wanted?

Just a guess, but probably because they fear being besieged by clueless
unregistered cardholders wanting the added protection retrospectively.
--
Roland Perry

Mizter T wrote in news:0eed117e-58ec-4f04-8b8e-
:

What is definitely allowed is to combine a season Travelcard and a
rail-only season ticket when your train stops at the point when you
swap between the two tickets - so lets say you travel from Woking to
London Waterloo, then as long as you got on a train that stopped at
Surbiton you could have a Woking to Surbiton rail-only season (as a
printed ticket), and then a zones 1-6 season Travelcard (issued on
Oyster if you so desire) which would kick in at Surbiton (Surbiton
being in zone 6).

What I'm less clear on is whether this would be allowed if the Woking
to London Waterloo train did not stop at Surbiton (as only some trains
from Woking to Waterloo do stop there). Perhaps someone can put me
right on this once and for all!


From the National Rail Conditions of Carriage:

"19. Using a combination of tickets

You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they
cover the entire journey and one of the following applies:

(a) they are both Zonal Tickets (unless special conditions prohibit
their use);

(b) the train you are in calls at the station where you change from one
ticket to another; or

(c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does
not include Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a
passenger transport executive or
local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s)
is/are not."

In this case (a) does not apply as Woking to Surbiton is not "Zonal",
(b) doesn't if the train doesn't stop at Surbiton and (c) doesn't as
both the tickets are season tickets and neither is issued by a PTE or
local authority.

So the combination is not valid.

David

"Paul Oter" wrote in message
...
On Jan 11, 5:28 pm, JB wrote:
Can you transfer the travelcard element of an annual National Rail
season tickets that has an origin of somewhere outside London, for
example Cambridge to Zones R1256, onto an Oyster card, and if so how?



Note, incidentally, that if you're commuting from Cambridge to the
City of London (and don't fancy the Liverpool Street line) then you
can use a Cambridge - London Terminals ticket on the underground
between King's Cross and Moorgate.


Not according to the current Fares Manual (Section A Page A4), there is an
exclusion for journey's beyond St Pancras from the north (or City Thameslink
from the south). In other words Moorgate is only a London Terminal via
Finsbury Park.

Paul S