Which train leaves Aldgate first?
 

I'm on a Circle line train going anti-clockwise from Tower Hill to
King's Cross. The train pulls into Aldgate and proceeds to sit there
for several minutes. A Metropolitan line train sits in the adjacent
platform, with people sitting on it waiting to depart.

Sometimes the Circle line departs first, but quite often the
Metropolitan line train leaves first instead, which is annoying when
I'm rushing for a connection at KX.

Is there any way to tell which train is going to depart first? What
happens at the moment is that people hang around half way between the
two, hoping to run to whichever train sounds its "doors closing" beeps
first. And often not getting there in time.

I suppose my best bet is to watch the signals and see which one goes
green first, but you can't see both sets at the same time except when
standing at the very front. And I get the impression that the driver
starts closing the doors before the signals change. Are there any
other lights or clues I could be watching out for?

PaulO

Which train leaves Aldgate first?
 

On 23 Jan, 20:54, Paul Oter wrote:

I suppose my best bet is to watch the signals and see which one goes
green first, but you can't see both sets at the same time except when
standing at the very front. And I get the impression that the driver
starts closing the doors before the signals change. Are there any
other lights or clues I could be watching out for?

It's actually better to be towards the rear of the train, although
there is a gap between the platforms and trains due to a curve. There
is still a platform repeater on platform 3, which shows a yellow light
when the signal is red. The staff normally make announcements during
the evening peak regarding the first train to depart, but this is done
to the overbridge area, where customers who have entered the station
usually wait for the train information display. There is an upgrade
planned to the present train indicator board due at some point.
Drivers don't normally start to close the doors before the signal
changes, as it's far too easy to then start moving the train and end
up passing a signal at danger, not a situation anyone wants at that
complex junction!

Which train leaves Aldgate first?
 

Which train leaves Aldgate first?
 

I can absolutely guarantee that Met drivers do not close the doors
before the signal has changed, the fact is that apart from looking at
the screen on the top landing at Aldgate which should show the first
train to Baker Street that drivers have absolutely no idea which train
is going to get the green light first, the only thing that we can do is
make a PA.


And I get the impression that the driver
starts closing the doors before the signals change. Are there any
other lights or clues I could be watching out for?

PaulO

Which train leaves Aldgate first?
 

www.waspies.net wrote:
the fact is that apart from looking at
the screen on the top landing at Aldgate which should show the first
train to Baker Street

Which often doesn't - e.g. tonight, first train to Baker Street shown as
platform 3; we all trooped down and got on and in came a Circle on 4 - and
left in front of us! Very irritating when the service is already cocked up
and is making you tight on time for an onward National Rail service.

Which train leaves Aldgate first?
 

On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 21:50:33 GMT, "www.waspies.net"
wrote:

I can absolutely guarantee that Met drivers do not close the doors
before the signal has changed, the fact is that apart from looking at
the screen on the top landing at Aldgate which should show the first
train to Baker Street that drivers have absolutely no idea which train
is going to get the green light first, the only thing that we can do is
make a PA.

Aldgate would be made a lot less stressful if the board could display
a timetabled departure time for each of them, preferably repeated at
platform level (where there is no destination indication at all).

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Which train leaves Aldgate first?
 

On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 22:15:23 GMT, "Jack Taylor"
wrote:

Which often doesn't - e.g. tonight, first train to Baker Street shown as
platform 3; we all trooped down and got on and in came a Circle on 4 - and
left in front of us! Very irritating when the service is already cocked up
and is making you tight on time for an onward National Rail service.

I think it often only shows which signal is off, by which time it's
often too late.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Which train leaves Aldgate first?
 

On 24 Jan, 22:46, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 22:15:23 GMT, "Jack Taylor"
wrote:

Which often doesn't - e.g. tonight, first train to Baker Street shown as
platform 3; *we all trooped down and got on and in came a Circle on 4 - and
left in front of us! Very irritating when the service is already cocked up
and is making you tight on time for an onward National Rail service.

I think it often only shows which signal is off, by which time it's
often too late.

The board is controlled from the signal computer at Baker Street. The
computer decides it's "moves" in advance, then updates the information
board. It then recalcuates the best moves and if it decides it's first
choice was wrong, changes them, but doesn't always update the board.
There is a project to upgrade both the board itself and the amount of
updates provided by the computer, but I haven't heard any news
recently as to when this will happen. From what I recall, the new
board will display the scheduled departure time of the the trains,
which should make life a little easier for regular customers to plan
which train to head for.

Which train leaves Aldgate first?
 

Which train leaves Aldgate first?
 

On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 18:59:45 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

From what I recall, the new
board will display the scheduled departure time of the the trains,
which should make life a little easier for regular customers to plan
which train to head for.

Agreed - as a regular user of the station that would be a massive
improvement, as it would save a run (which can be dangerous on those
steep stairs in the wet) if the train wasn't due out for several
minutes, or if you knew another would be going within 2.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Which train leaves Aldgate first?
 

On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 11:56:12 GMT, "Jack Taylor"
wrote:

That sounds a vast improvement (as, indeed, the existing board was in the
mid 90s, when it first went in!). The only other thing that I can think of
is that, in addition to the *scheduled* departure time of services, it would
be useful to have an indication if they are running late, so that a
judgement call can be made whether it's better to wait or to take a Circle
in either direction (sometimes I find it quicker to take an outer Circle to
Embankment and then up the Bakerloo).

The other thing that would be useful would be platform-level
destination displays for the Met Line (and to move the one on the
Circle Line anticlockwise platform so it isn't hidden behind a
security camera). This would be beneficial for anyone interchanging
Circle-Met who likes the guaranteed seat you get from changing at
Aldgate.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Which train leaves Aldgate first?
 

Neil Williams wrote:

The other thing that would be useful would be platform-level
destination displays for the Met Line (and to move the one on the
Circle Line anticlockwise platform so it isn't hidden behind a
security camera).

Agreed. One of the most irritating things about the latter is its position,
such that to view it from the bridge you have to either hang over the rail
at the end or go halfway down the staircase, in order to get a clear view.

Which train leaves Aldgate first?
 

Neil Williams wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 22:15:23 GMT, "Jack Taylor"
wrote:

Which often doesn't - e.g. tonight, first train to Baker Street shown as
platform 3; we all trooped down and got on and in came a Circle on 4 - and
left in front of us! Very irritating when the service is already cocked up
and is making you tight on time for an onward National Rail service.

I think it often only shows which signal is off, by which time it's
often too late.

Neil

NO it doesn't, it's controlled by signallers.....!

Which train leaves Aldgate first?
 

On Jan 26, 4:06*pm, "Jack Taylor" wrote:
Neil Williams wrote:

The other thing that would be useful would be platform-level
destination displays for the Met Line (and to move the one on the
Circle Line anticlockwise platform so it isn't hidden behind a
security camera).

Agreed. One of the most irritating things about the latter is its position,
such that to view it from the bridge you have to either hang over the rail
at the end or go halfway down the staircase, in order to get a clear view.

It seems to be common practice in many parts of the Underground to put
PIS directly behind security cameras or way out signs. The mind
boggles.

Which train leaves Aldgate first?
 

In message
of
Fri, 25 Jan 2008 18:59:45 in uk.transport.london, "
writes

[snip]

The board is controlled from the signal computer at Baker Street. The
computer decides it's "moves" in advance, then updates the information
board. It then recalcuates the best moves and if it decides it's first
choice was wrong, changes them, but doesn't always update the board.
There is a project to upgrade both the board itself and the amount of
updates provided by the computer, but I haven't heard any news
recently as to when this will happen. From what I recall, the new
board will display the scheduled departure time of the the trains,
which should make life a little easier for regular customers to plan
which train to head for.

I complained about the situation in May 2007. I got a reply from which I
quote (my complaint probably predates the "send me a copy of my
communication" facility:

[snipped patronising preamble]

train service reliability. The problem is that the standard of train
information provided by the boards is not adequate enough to give
customers sufficient time to catch a train. The reason for this is that
these information boards are quite old and are not compatible with the
present signaling system on the Metropolitan line.

The good news is that there are plans to upgrade Aldgate station,
starting next year. The project includes the installation of new dot
matrix boards that will give the times when trains are due to
arrive/depart at a particular platform. Hopefully, this will mean that
the risk of customers who are unable to catch a train will be reduced.

We recognise that communication is of paramount importance and with
this in mind, if station staff are aware of a train that will depart
from a particular platform, they are expected to make an appropriate
and timely public address announcement. I've passed your comments to a
senior manager responsible for staff at Aldgate to make him aware of
your complaint, and to remind staff of our standards of communication.

I responded: "My understanding from the Station Supervisor (name
snipped) at Aldgate is that signal staff at Baker Street set a message
to customers and a signal to a driver without a suitable interval. Your
reply ignores this suggestion. Do you not want to address it? "

Robin Mayes gave a technical description consistent with the view
expressed by the Station Supervisor.

I got back:
First of all, I would explain that the comments made by the station
supervisor are inaccurate. I was informed by our Service Control
Manager that the situation you've described is not due to the actions
of our signalling staff. Train service information is fed automatically
to the information boards via the computerised signalling system
without human interaction.

I then gave up. Plainly bucks are being passed. I rarely use Aldgate. I
suggest those who do regularly enter there should complain to the duty
station supervisor and follow up to Customer Services and London
Travelwatch.
--
Walter Briscoe