ELL alternative routes
 

After a few weeks of getting back to work after the Christmas break,
and with the closure of the ELL for over 2 years - what alternatives
are found to be the best ? I need to get from Green Park to SE4 1UY,
previously Jubilee to Canada Water, ELL to NewX Gate and bus to
SE4. I could take the 436 us from Hyde Park Corner - door to door,
but journey over an hour most times.
I've tried Jubilee to Canary Wharf, walk to Heron Quays, DLR to
Deptford Bridge, and walk.
The Tfl Journey Planner site seems to always advise, Jubilee from
Green Park to London Bridge, then a Southern service to New X Gate, or
Southeastern to New Cross - - but Pay as You Go OYSTERS are invalid
for this . Any thoughts ?

ELL alternative routes
 

David wrote:

The Tfl Journey Planner site seems to always advise, Jubilee from
Green Park to London Bridge, then a Southern service to New X Gate, or
Southeastern to New Cross - - but Pay as You Go OYSTERS are invalid
for this . Any thoughts ?

Buy a Travelcard?
--
Michael Hoffman

ELL alternative routes
 

David wrote:

After a few weeks of getting back to work after the Christmas break,
and with the closure of the ELL for over 2 years - what alternatives
are found to be the best ? I need to get from Green Park to SE4 1UY,
previously Jubilee to Canada Water, ELL to NewX Gate and bus to
SE4. I could take the 436 us from Hyde Park Corner - door to door,
but journey over an hour most times.


So the destination is somewhere on or just off Lewisham Way, between
Tanners Hill and Friendly Street...


I've tried Jubilee to Canary Wharf, walk to Heron Quays, DLR to
Deptford Bridge, and walk.


The above sounds like quite a good route to me.

An alternative would be to take the Jubilee to Canada Water, then the
ELC replacement bus to New Cross, and get off the bus on New Cross Rd
opposite New Cross station and walk up via Alpha Road and Florence
Road to Lewisham Way. The ELC buses go every 5 minutes during peak
times, and every 8-10 minutes at other times, and from what I gather
they are reliable, though of course they are at the mercy of traffic
conditions. You can but try it.

Or you could take the Victoria line from Green Park to Vauxhall then
the 436 from there, which would cut out a bit of the bus journey (but
not that much).


The Tfl Journey Planner site seems to always advise, Jubilee from
Green Park to London Bridge, then a Southern service to New X Gate, or
Southeastern to New Cross - - but Pay as You Go OYSTERS are invalid
for this . Any thoughts ?


Oyster Pay-as-you-go (PAYG) is indeed not valid on southbound rail
services from London Bridge - so if you want to go by mainline rail
you'll need to buy a paper ticket. How often do you make this journey,
and when do you travel?

If it is just occasionally, and is before 0930, then you can buy a
Peak Day Travelcard for zones 1&2 from Green Park (if that is indeed
your starting point) - it costs £6.80. If you are travelling after
0930, an off-peak Day Travelcard for zones 1&2 will do - that costs
£5.30.

If you make this return journey four or more times a week then a
weekly, monthly or longer season Travelcard would be worthwhile.

The alternative of buying separate tickets for the rail journey is not
worthwhile - a single costs £2.30, a return £4 and a cheap-day return
(available if you departed from London Bridge after 0930) is £3.20
(the fares to New Cross, New Cross Gate or St Johns are the same,
though the tickets are not interchangeable).

Alternatively if you wish to keep the expense down then either going
via the Jubilee and then DLR to Deptford Bridge, or via the Jubilee
then the replacement bus, will cost you £2 (weekdays 7am-7pm) or £1.50
(at other times) for a single journey using Oyster PAYG.

By the way, if you don't want the TfL Journey Planner to show you
routes that involve travelling by mainline rail (aka National Rail)
then you can select this under "Advanced options".

Lastly, there's one other completely different route you could try -
though again you'd need a separate ticket or Travelcard. You could
take the Victoria line to Victoria, then the half-hourly Southeastern
service to Lewisham (final destination Dartford), then take one of
many buses (136, 436, 21 or 321) up Loampit Vale, Loampit Hill and
Lewisham Way.

ELL alternative routes
 

On Jan 23, 11:17 pm, David wrote:
After a few weeks of getting back to work after the Christmas break,
and with the closure of the ELL for over 2 years - what alternatives
are found to be the best ? I need to get from Green Park to SE4 1UY,
previously Jubilee to Canada Water, ELL to NewX Gate and bus to
SE4. I could take the 436 us from Hyde Park Corner - door to door,
but journey over an hour most times.
I've tried Jubilee to Canary Wharf, walk to Heron Quays, DLR to
Deptford Bridge, and walk.
The Tfl Journey Planner site seems to always advise, Jubilee from
Green Park to London Bridge, then a Southern service to New X Gate, or
Southeastern to New Cross - - but Pay as You Go OYSTERS are invalid
for this . Any thoughts ?

I would go Green Park to Victoria, then take the 436 from there.

ELL alternative routes
 

On Jan 24, 6:19*am, Offramp wrote:
On Jan 23, 11:17 pm, David wrote:

After a few weeks of getting back *to work after the Christmas break,
and with the closure of the ELL for over 2 years - what alternatives
are found to be the best ? I need to get from Green Park to SE4 1UY,
previously Jubilee to Canada Water, ELL to NewX *Gate and bus to
SE4. * * I could take the 436 us from Hyde Park Corner - door to door,
but journey over an hour most times.
I've tried Jubilee to Canary Wharf, walk to Heron Quays, DLR to
Deptford Bridge, and walk.
The Tfl Journey Planner site seems to always advise, Jubilee from
Green Park to London Bridge, then a Southern service to New X Gate, or
Southeastern to New Cross - - but Pay as You Go OYSTERS are invalid
for this . * Any thoughts ?

I would go Green Park to Victoria, then take the 436 from there.

I'd minimise the bus and go to Canada water, then whichever of
replacement bus, 225 or 47 that turned up first

ELL alternative routes
 

On 24 Jan, 09:06, MIG wrote:
On Jan 24, 6:19 am, Offramp wrote:



On Jan 23, 11:17 pm, David wrote:

After a few weeks of getting back to work after the Christmas break,
and with the closure of the ELL for over 2 years - what alternatives
are found to be the best ? I need to get from Green Park to SE4 1UY,
previously Jubilee to Canada Water, ELL to NewX Gate and bus to
SE4. I could take the 436 us from Hyde Park Corner - door to door,
but journey over an hour most times.
I've tried Jubilee to Canary Wharf, walk to Heron Quays, DLR to
Deptford Bridge, and walk.
The Tfl Journey Planner site seems to always advise, Jubilee from
Green Park to London Bridge, then a Southern service to New X Gate, or
Southeastern to New Cross - - but Pay as You Go OYSTERS are invalid
for this . Any thoughts ?

I would go Green Park to Victoria, then take the 436 from there.

Except if you're taking the Victoria line you might as well go to
Vauxhall then catch the 436 - or indeed the 36 to New Cross Gate, then
another bus (or even walk).


I'd minimise the bus and go to Canada water, then whichever of
replacement bus, 225 or 47 that turned up first


That's a good idea, though it is somewhat foiled by the fact that the
ELC replacement bus leaves from the other side of Canada Water bus
station to the 47 and 225. The stops at Canada Water were all rejigged
when the ELL replacement buses started running - unfortunately whilst
the old spider map for Canada Water has been taken off the TfL
website, the updated version isn't up there yet (I have just sent TfL
some feedback on this). Nonetheless just going via the 47 or 225
isn't a bad idea.

In the opposite direction - i.e. going back to Canada Water - then the
OP would have to make a decision as to whether they should wait for
the ELC replacement bus at New Cross or the 47 or 225 on Brookmill
Road.

One further point to make - use of the ELL replacement buses doesn't
cost anything extra (whilst a ticket is required, with Oyster you are
charged a 0p fare), whilst if one travelled on the 47 or 225 the
normal bus fare (90p when using Oyster PAYG) must be paid.

ELL alternative routes
 

On 24 Jan, 16:51, Mizter T wrote:
On 24 Jan, 09:06, MIG wrote:





On Jan 24, 6:19 am, Offramp wrote:

On Jan 23, 11:17 pm, David wrote:

After a few weeks of getting back *to work after the Christmas break,
and with the closure of the ELL for over 2 years - what alternatives
are found to be the best ? I need to get from Green Park to SE4 1UY,
previously Jubilee to Canada Water, ELL to NewX *Gate and bus to
SE4. * * I could take the 436 us from Hyde Park Corner - door to door,
but journey over an hour most times.
I've tried Jubilee to Canary Wharf, walk to Heron Quays, DLR to
Deptford Bridge, and walk.
The Tfl Journey Planner site seems to always advise, Jubilee from
Green Park to London Bridge, then a Southern service to New X Gate, or
Southeastern to New Cross - - but Pay as You Go OYSTERS are invalid
for this . * Any thoughts ?

I would go Green Park to Victoria, then take the 436 from there.

Except if you're taking the Victoria line you might as well go to
Vauxhall then catch the 436 - or indeed the 36 to New Cross Gate, then
another bus (or even walk).



I'd minimise the bus and go to Canada water, then whichever of
replacement bus, 225 or 47 that turned up first

That's a good idea, though it is somewhat foiled by the fact that the
ELC replacement bus leaves from the other side of Canada Water bus
station to the 47 and 225. The stops at Canada Water were all rejigged
when the ELL replacement buses started running - unfortunately whilst
the old spider map for Canada Water has been taken off the TfL
website, the updated version isn't up there yet (I have just sent TfL
some feedback on this). Nonetheless just going via the 47 or 225
isn't *a bad idea.

In the opposite direction - i.e. going back to Canada Water - then the
OP would have to make a decision as to whether they should wait for
the ELC replacement bus at New Cross or the 47 or 225 on Brookmill
Road.

One further point to make - use of the ELL replacement buses doesn't
cost anything extra (whilst a ticket is required, with Oyster you are
charged a 0p fare), whilst if one travelled on the 47 or 225 the
normal bus fare (90p when using Oyster PAYG) must be paid.-

Hmm. So if you are just going (say) New Cross to Surrey Quays on
PAYG, you don't get charged? Interesting loophole. Makes it much
more attractive after all. Or was that wishful misreading?

ELL alternative routes
 

On Jan 24, 4:51 pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 24 Jan, 09:06, MIG wrote:

I would go Green Park to Victoria, then take the 436 from there.

Except if you're taking the Victoria line you might as well go to
Vauxhall then catch the 436 - or indeed the 36 to New Cross Gate, then
another bus (or even walk).

That is certainly better than my suggestion.
Originally I was thinking of catching the 36/436 from the Oval - but
Green Park to Oval is too fiddly.

ELL alternative routes
 

On 24 Jan, 17:45, MIG wrote:
On 24 Jan, 16:51, Mizter T wrote:

(snip)

One further point to make - use of the ELL replacement buses doesn't
cost anything extra (whilst a ticket is required, with Oyster you are
charged a 0p fare), whilst if one travelled on the 47 or 225 the
normal bus fare (90p when using Oyster PAYG) must be paid.-

Hmm. So if you are just going (say) New Cross to Surrey Quays on
PAYG, you don't get charged? Interesting loophole. Makes it much
more attractive after all. Or was that wishful misreading?


That is correct, you haven't misread it. I've been intending to post
about that for a while (along with a whole host of other things),
perhaps as part of a larger post about the ELL replacement buses, but
I haven't yet got round to it (in part because I wanted to gather a
little more 'evidence' first, plus I'm disorganised!).

So long as you have an Oyster card, you can get on the bus - the PAYG
fare as charged is 0p. I have done this with an Oyster card that had a
zero (£0.00) balance, though I suspect it wouldn't work on a card with
a minus balance (perhaps I'll try it some time) - but note that the
closure leaflet that details the replacement buses does state that, if
you are using Oyster PAYG, you need to have "Money on your Oyster card
to pay as you go" (so don't come complaining to me if you get n
trouble for doing this!).

Ian Jelf (I think) alerted me to this when he said he'd got charged 0p
when using the ELS bus between Whitechapel and Shoreditch - a fact
that I can verify - and the same applies on all the ELL replacement
buses. So yes, people who wish to travel between Canada Water/Surrey
Quays and New Cross can do so for 'free' on the ELC bus rather than
taking the 225 bus.

In reality I think this is the best way to configure the system. I
suppose there could be some complex system whereby touching-in on the
bus indicates the start of an Underground journey, and if one
transfers to the Underground, DLR or another ELL bus the journey is
continued. Likewise, if one has just got off the Underground or DLR at
an interchange station - i.e. Whitechapel, Shadwell or Canada Water -
or off another ELL bus, then again one could be presumed to be
continuing their journey. The lack of any facility to touch-out would
not matter as all ELL journeys are within zone 2, so the system could
merely presume it was a zone 2 journey.

However, as you can see any such implementation would be very
complicated.

What I haven't really though about until now is where one would buy a
paper ticket. Presumably New Cross and New Cross Gate stations will
continue to sell paper LU singles, and one can of course buy them at
Whitechapel and Canada Water. The leaflet also suggests that
passengers at Shadwell can use the DLR machines. This leaves Surrey
Quays, Rotherhithe and Wapping as places where you can't but a paper
ticket - given the proximity of Canada Water to the first two, I
suppose that's not such a big issue (although I guess it could be for
a few passengers). Pax wishing to use the replacement buses from these
points are thus far better off if they have an Oyster card - though in
reality, I strongly suspect that if you explained the situation to the
bus driver he would let you on anyway.

The leaflet also says that NX and NXG "will have their normal ticket
selling facilities" - this would seem to suggest that they will still
top-up Oyster cards there, despite the fact that since the ELL closure
Oyster PAYG is now not accepted on any trains from these stations. I
am curious as to whether (a) NX and NXG will remain kitted out for
topping up Oyster PAYG until 2010, (b) whether ticket office staff
will actually still sell you Oyster top-ups, not least because (c)
will any passengers actually ask them for this? I can certainly see
the staff getting asked by confused passengers if they can top-up
their Oyster for use on National Rail services - where it is not valid
- and therefore merely giving them the stock response that no they
cannot do this because Oyster PAYG cannot be used from this station.

ELL alternative routes
 

On 24 Jan, 18:32, Offramp wrote:
On Jan 24, 4:51 pm, Mizter T wrote:

On 24 Jan, 09:06, MIG wrote:
I would go Green Park to Victoria, then take the 436 from there.

Except if you're taking the Victoria line you might as well go to
Vauxhall then catch the 436 - or indeed the 36 to New Cross Gate, then
another bus (or even walk).

That is certainly better than my suggestion.
Originally I was thinking of catching the 36/436 from the Oval - but
Green Park to Oval is too fiddly.


I'm familiar with this, and I can definitely say that if anyone is
heading to the Oval to catch a bus towards Camberwell and beyond
(36/436/185), then if they are coming from say the West End, Euston or
KXSP, taking the Victoria line to Vauxhall and then getting the bus
from there might well be a better bet.

One can take advantage of the faster (and I think I'm right to say
more frequent) Victoria line, avoid the Kennington shuffle (where CX
branch trains often terminate), plus I'd say the Vic line is less
liable to getting disrupted.

The bus journey between Vauxhall and Oval is less than 5 minutes (and
of course during the rush if you start at Vauxhall you've a better
chance of a seat).