Chris Game wrote:

James Farrar said:

I haven't seen any reports that used the word "unrelated".

The Energy Minister's comments on the BBC on Friday.

Oh, a politician.

Presumably talking after a briefing by the National Grid people.

Perhaps.

And even if so, there's no guarantee that the Minister's comments
accurately reflect the content of the briefing.

--
James Farrar |
London SE 13 |

In message , Bagpuss
writes

As soemone else mentioned he probably shorted out the grid whilst
changing his arze lightbulb as the light shining out of it was dulling
off badly.

I particularly liked yesterday's cartoon in the Times, linking both the
power cut and Campbell's departure. It shows a National Grid official on
the phone saying "Its Tony Blair. He's lost the power behind the
throne".

--
Paul Terry

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 11:14:28 +0100, Chris Game wrote:

James Farrar said:

Presumably talking after a briefing by the National Grid people.

Perhaps.

And even if so, there's no guarantee that the Minister's comments
accurately reflect the content of the briefing.

Come on! You think the posters on here know what they're talking
about? In detail?

Err, there are one or two who do or have worked in the Electricity Supply
Industry - they tend to be the ones who are waiting to see what NGT's
investigation brings forth.....

In article , David H Wild
writes
I've not seen anything that suggested that the second failure was a
consequence of the first.

The National Grid press release says that the second fault was "the
backup failing". So I suppose the cable that failed after 7 seconds was
already broken, but no-one had noticed. Until it came to be used.

Whether you regard that failure as something you might describe as a
"consequence" of being put into use after the first fault or not, is
merely playing with words.
--
"It used to be that what a writer did was type a bit and then stare out of the
window a bit, type a bit, stare out of the window a bit. Networked computers
make these two activities converge, because now the thing you type on and the
window you stare out of are the same thing" - Douglas Adams 28/1/99.

In article , David Hansen
writes
Typically the standby generator can only power a small part of the
building load. Non-essential circuits are shed as the generator starts
up. With the generator running it may not be desirable to go back to
the external supply automatically if it does become healthy, it might
fail a minute later. Thus the building may run with only essential
circuits for some time until people are happy with the external supply.


In these days where everything is computer controlled and your servers
are probably the most important business-critical device (see the cases
of various supermarkets which have to close for the day because their
accounting software is on the frizz), keeping them working also needs
air-conditioning. So when things like this happen you'll be sitting in
the dark, bathed only by the strangle glow of computer screens, unable
to do many jobs that require manual dexterity - like going for a pee in
a totally dark toilet - but in a nice, comfortably cooled environment.

--
Martin @ Strawberry Hill

On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 16:41:44 +0100 Road Runner wrote:
} Nick Cooper wrote:
}
} On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 04:00:20 +0100, Road Runner
} wrote:
}
} Depresion wrote:
}
} Why isn't this plastered across all the US news channels the way there power cut
} was across all of ours?
}
} A 34 minute power failure affecting 10m people is far less serious
} than an 8 hour power failure affecting 50m people.
}
} Let's not kid ourselves - if those times and numbers had been
} reversed, _we_ would still have heard of the events in the US, but
} most Americans would be blissly unaware of what happened here. Yanks
} don't do "foreign," remember.
}
} The whole of England and Wales blacked out for eight hours? I bet the
} Yanks would have heard about that!

"Hey, why's there no lights on the aircraft carrier?"

Matthew
--
Záhid sharáb píné dé, masjid mein baith kar
ya woh jagah batá dé jahán Khudá na ho.
http://www.calmeilles.co.uk/

Roland Perry wrote in message .. .
In article , Terry Harper
writes

Yes, it would be a big gas turbine. Would a few hundred MW be adequate, do
you think?

Dinorwig (Llanberis) was designed as a power station for fast backup.
1,728MW available within 16 seconds, apparently.

Strictly speaking Dinorwig was not designed as a backup generator, nor
is used as one, as it is powered from pumped hydro storage and thus
has a finite time from which it can provide useful energy conversion
before the head of water becomes exhausted.

Its purpose is to provide additional generating capacity during peaks
in demand of the sort created by the nation putting the kettle on
during the middle of soap operas, footie etc. This prevents the system
frequency from sagging to the point of shedding load. On a typical
day, the plant at Dinorwig may only generate electricity for as few as
10 minutes or even less, some of the remainder of the time being used
as a pumping station to restore the reservior's head.

To provide the ability to go on line and generate 1.7GW in 16 seconds
with fossil or nuclear fuelled plant would require an installed
capacity of perhaps 8GW and the associated costs of keeping it in
spinning reserve until called upon.

As Dinorwig and other pumped storage schemes are used to support the
Grid's stability during transient load flows, they are classed as
power compensation plant and as such are operated in England & Wales
by NGT (National Grid Transco), the transmission system operator.

Richard

It's OK until you need petrol - I notice that few outlets use gravity feed.
Or do you have your garage lined with jerry cans which you rotate properly
to avoid "stale" petrol, so that you have your version of the Greenwich
back-up station. Of course, you always carry a full jerry can with you ....



DW down under (and yes, we have outages too).


"JNugent" wrote in message
...
: That's odd...
:
: My car performs as normal, despite the power cuts apparently prevalent in
: the SE.
:
: Even the headlights work.
:
:

"JNugent" wrote in message
...
: wrote:
:
: writes
:
: That's odd...
: My car performs as normal, despite the power cuts apparently
: prevalent in the SE.
: Even the headlights work.
:
: Useful when crossing junctions where the traffic lights are out, or do
: you just power through and trust to God?
:
: Malfunctioning traffic lights are an everyday occurrence - and present no
: problem to those with common sense.
:
: AAMOF, sometimes/often [take your pick], dependding on location, the
traffic
: flows *better* when the lights are out.

Until the Police arrive and take control .... (IMX) ...

DW

:
:

Chris Game wrote:

What the Mayor of London should be asking are
questions about the impact of such events, and the capacity of the
city to cope with thousands of people in various states of anger and
shock all milling about not knowing what to do. How good were the
flows of information about the event and it's resolution, and how
were people informed so they could make sensible choices about what
to do.

Or maybe we should be addressing the issue of why thousands of people were
angry or shocked by a 40 minute power cut.

--
Chris Lambert (http://web.trout-fish.org.uk/)
A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without
bricks tied to its head.