oyster bus travel and price capping
 

a theoretical question about zones and bus use of oyster payg.

if i travel from my home in zone 2 and travel around a bit in zones 1
and 2 (into the realms of travelcard price cap) then travel out to
zone, say, 6 on a bus and back again, am I being charged more because
the bus is in zone 6 when I get on it? or will it come under my 1&2
travelcard price cap.

I travel from my home in zone 2 all over the underground network and
often using local bus routes out in distant zones and I've never been
able to make sense of what it's costing me.

Mark.


--
Mark
www.markvarleyphoto.co.uk
www.twistedphotography.co.uk
www.twistedarts.co.uk
www.facelessladies.com
www.mvp-gallery.com
www.beautifulbondage.net

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

MarkVarley - MVP wrote:
a theoretical question about zones and bus use of oyster payg.

if i travel from my home in zone 2 and travel around a bit in zones
1 and 2 (into the realms of travelcard price cap) then travel out to
zone, say, 6 on a bus and back again, am I being charged more
because the bus is in zone 6 when I get on it? or will it come
under my 1&2 travelcard price cap.

I travel from my home in zone 2 all over the underground network and
often using local bus routes out in distant zones and I've never
been able to make sense of what it's costing me.

There are no bus zones nowadays. Bus fares are the same throughout
London, and will contribute towards (or be capped by) your Z1-2
travelcard price cap.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:47:28 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote this gibberish:

MarkVarley - MVP wrote:
a theoretical question about zones and bus use of oyster payg.

if i travel from my home in zone 2 and travel around a bit in zones
1 and 2 (into the realms of travelcard price cap) then travel out to
zone, say, 6 on a bus and back again, am I being charged more
because the bus is in zone 6 when I get on it? or will it come
under my 1&2 travelcard price cap.

I travel from my home in zone 2 all over the underground network and
often using local bus routes out in distant zones and I've never
been able to make sense of what it's costing me.

There are no bus zones nowadays. Bus fares are the same throughout
London, and will contribute towards (or be capped by) your Z1-2
travelcard price cap.

Thats perfect, I had no idea buses were not using the zones system,
I've been here 2 years now and I ought ot have figured it out.

Thank you for your prompt reply :-)

Mark.


--
Mark
www.markvarleyphoto.co.uk
www.twistedphotography.co.uk
www.twistedarts.co.uk
www.facelessladies.com
www.mvp-gallery.com
www.beautifulbondage.net

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

MarkVarley - MVP wrote:

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:47:28 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote this gibberish:

MarkVarley - MVP wrote:
a theoretical question about zones and bus use of oyster payg.

if i travel from my home in zone 2 and travel around a bit in zones
1 and 2 (into the realms of travelcard price cap) then travel out to
zone, say, 6 on a bus and back again, am I being charged more
because the bus is in zone 6 when I get on it? or will it come
under my 1&2 travelcard price cap.

I travel from my home in zone 2 all over the underground network and
often using local bus routes out in distant zones and I've never
been able to make sense of what it's costing me.

There are no bus zones nowadays. Bus fares are the same throughout
London, and will contribute towards (or be capped by) your Z1-2
travelcard price cap.

Thats perfect, I had no idea buses were not using the zones system,
I've been here 2 years now and I ought ot have figured it out.

Thank you for your prompt reply :-)

Mark.


A few extra things to note. If you have any Travelcard - whether day,
weekly or longer - and it is in in date (i.e. it hasn't expired) it
can again be used on any London bus route (regardless of whether the
ticket is on paper or Oyster), and can be used until 0430 the morning
after the date of expiration.

Additionally, as you may be aware, there is an Oyster bus-only cap of
£3 a day, and this applies all day (no divide between a peak and off-
peak cap) - which is great as it means the first three journeys cost
the normal 90p bus fare, the fourth costs 30p and then the fifth and
any beyond that are 'free' for the rest of the day.

For reference here is a table of all the Oyster capping levels:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresa...ares/5196.aspx


One thing to note about Oyster price capping [1] is that the cap that
applies to you depends upon when you travel - so before 0930 weekdays
the Peak cap applies, after 0930 the Off-peak cap applies (and the Off-
peak cap applies all weekend and public holidays too).

However just because you might travel before 0930 does not mean that
the system defaults to charging you the Peak cap - instead if the
price of your pre-0930 journey(s) plus the Off-peak cap is cheaper,
then that is what you will pay.

An easy example - before 0930 you make a single journey by Tube
between two stations in zone 2 (e.g. Archway to Camden Town) for which
you will pay £1, then after 0930 you make several journeys in and
around zones 1&2 and reach the zones 1&2 Off-peak cap of £4.80 - thus
the total you pay will be £5.80 (i.e. you will *not* have to pay the
£6.30 Peak cap for z1&2).

It is also possibly to have two caps applied on one day - e.g. a z1&2
Peak cap of £6.30 plus a z2-6 Off-peak cap of £4.30 = total paid
£10.60 (less than the z1-6 Peak cap of £13.30).

Or (unlikely one this!) have a £3 bus cap applied for making four
pre-0930 journeys, then a z1-6 Off-peak cap of £6.50 applied = total
paid £9.50 (less than the z1-6 Peak cap of £13.30).

Point being the system should always ensure you get charged the most
favourable amount on any one day. Just ensure you always touch-in and
touch-out when using the Tube, DLR or TfL's London Overground
services.


-----
Note that officially it is called "Oyster daily price capping", as
opposed to "Travelcard price capping" - this is to avoid confusion
with Day Travelcards, which is a distinct product.

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:08:54 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote this gibberish:

MarkVarley - MVP wrote:

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:47:28 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote this gibberish:

MarkVarley - MVP wrote:
a theoretical question about zones and bus use of oyster payg.

if i travel from my home in zone 2 and travel around a bit in zones
1 and 2 (into the realms of travelcard price cap) then travel out to
zone, say, 6 on a bus and back again, am I being charged more
because the bus is in zone 6 when I get on it? or will it come
under my 1&2 travelcard price cap.

I travel from my home in zone 2 all over the underground network and
often using local bus routes out in distant zones and I've never
been able to make sense of what it's costing me.

There are no bus zones nowadays. Bus fares are the same throughout
London, and will contribute towards (or be capped by) your Z1-2
travelcard price cap.

Thats perfect, I had no idea buses were not using the zones system,
I've been here 2 years now and I ought ot have figured it out.

Thank you for your prompt reply :-)

Mark.


A few extra things to note. If you have any Travelcard - whether day,
weekly or longer - and it is in in date (i.e. it hasn't expired) it
can again be used on any London bus route (regardless of whether the
ticket is on paper or Oyster), and can be used until 0430 the morning
after the date of expiration.

Additionally, as you may be aware, there is an Oyster bus-only cap of
£3 a day, and this applies all day (no divide between a peak and off-
peak cap) - which is great as it means the first three journeys cost
the normal 90p bus fare, the fourth costs 30p and then the fifth and
any beyond that are 'free' for the rest of the day.

For reference here is a table of all the Oyster capping levels:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresa...ares/5196.aspx


One thing to note about Oyster price capping [1] is that the cap that
applies to you depends upon when you travel - so before 0930 weekdays
the Peak cap applies, after 0930 the Off-peak cap applies (and the Off-
peak cap applies all weekend and public holidays too).

However just because you might travel before 0930 does not mean that
the system defaults to charging you the Peak cap - instead if the
price of your pre-0930 journey(s) plus the Off-peak cap is cheaper,
then that is what you will pay.

An easy example - before 0930 you make a single journey by Tube
between two stations in zone 2 (e.g. Archway to Camden Town) for which
you will pay £1, then after 0930 you make several journeys in and
around zones 1&2 and reach the zones 1&2 Off-peak cap of £4.80 - thus
the total you pay will be £5.80 (i.e. you will *not* have to pay the
£6.30 Peak cap for z1&2).

It is also possibly to have two caps applied on one day - e.g. a z1&2
Peak cap of £6.30 plus a z2-6 Off-peak cap of £4.30 = total paid
£10.60 (less than the z1-6 Peak cap of £13.30).

Or (unlikely one this!) have a £3 bus cap applied for making four
pre-0930 journeys, then a z1-6 Off-peak cap of £6.50 applied = total
paid £9.50 (less than the z1-6 Peak cap of £13.30).

Point being the system should always ensure you get charged the most
favourable amount on any one day. Just ensure you always touch-in and
touch-out when using the Tube, DLR or TfL's London Overground
services.


-----
Note that officially it is called "Oyster daily price capping", as
opposed to "Travelcard price capping" - this is to avoid confusion
with Day Travelcards, which is a distinct product.


Thanks for that extra info :-)

I wasn't aware of the bus-only price cap but then my travel is always
on the tube to as close as I can get to my destination and then on the
bus if necessary, doing it bus-only simply takes too long.

I've not explored the routes available on the London Overground yet
but as hackney central is on it (is hackney downs too?) I ought to
have in in my mind as a useful route, do I touch in and out at a gate
as for the underground?

All my journeys are using oyster PAYG except the odd train journey
usually if I'm heading to croydon area.

Mark.

PS I usually don't travel before 10am but am usually travelling
through until midnight or later. I try and avoid the busiest rush-hour
traffic but I'm not sure what times there is a fare change in the
evening rush hour.


--
Mark
www.markvarleyphoto.co.uk
www.twistedphotography.co.uk
www.twistedarts.co.uk
www.facelessladies.com
www.mvp-gallery.com
www.beautifulbondage.net

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

On 20 Feb, 17:40, MarkVarley - MVP
wrote:
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:08:54 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote this gibberish:





MarkVarley - MVP wrote:

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:47:28 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote this gibberish:

MarkVarley - MVP wrote:
a theoretical question about zones and bus use of oyster payg.

if i travel from my home in zone 2 and travel around a bit in zones
1 and 2 (into the realms of travelcard price cap) then travel out to
zone, say, 6 on a bus and back again, am I being charged more
because the bus is in zone 6 when I get on it? or will it come
under my 1&2 travelcard price cap.

I travel from my home in zone 2 all over the underground network and
often using local bus routes out in distant zones and I've never
been able to make sense of what it's costing me.

There are no bus zones nowadays. *Bus fares are the same throughout
London, and will contribute towards (or be capped by) your Z1-2
travelcard price cap.

Thats perfect, I had no idea buses were not using the zones system,
I've been here 2 years now and I ought ot have figured it out.

Thank you for your prompt reply :-)

Mark.

A few extra things to note. If you have any Travelcard - whether day,
weekly or longer - and it is in in date (i.e. it hasn't expired) it
can again be used on any London bus route (regardless of whether the
ticket is on paper or Oyster), and can be used until 0430 the morning
after the date of expiration.

Additionally, as you may be aware, there is an Oyster bus-only cap of
£3 a day, and this applies all day (no divide between a peak and off-
peak cap) - which is great as it means the first three journeys cost
the normal 90p bus fare, the fourth costs 30p and then the fifth and
any beyond that are 'free' for the rest of the day.

For reference here is a table of all the Oyster capping levels:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresa...ares/5196.aspx

One thing to note about Oyster price capping [1] is that the cap that
applies to you depends upon when you travel - so before 0930 weekdays
the Peak cap applies, after 0930 the Off-peak cap applies (and the Off-
peak cap applies all weekend and public holidays too).

However just because you might travel before 0930 does not mean that
the system defaults to charging you the Peak cap - instead if the
price of your pre-0930 journey(s) plus the Off-peak cap is cheaper,
then that is what you will pay.

An easy example - before 0930 you make a single journey by Tube
between two stations in zone 2 (e.g. Archway to Camden Town) for which
you will pay £1, then after 0930 you make several journeys in and
around zones 1&2 and reach the zones 1&2 Off-peak cap of £4.80 - thus
the total you pay will be £5.80 (i.e. you will *not* have to pay the
£6.30 Peak cap for z1&2).

It is also possibly to have two caps applied on one day - e.g. a z1&2
Peak cap of £6.30 plus a z2-6 Off-peak cap of £4.30 = total paid
£10.60 (less than the z1-6 Peak cap of £13.30).

Or (unlikely one this!) have a £3 bus cap applied for making four
pre-0930 journeys, then a z1-6 Off-peak cap of £6.50 applied = total
paid £9.50 (less than the z1-6 Peak cap of £13.30).

Point being the system should always ensure you get charged the most
favourable amount on any one day. Just ensure you always touch-in and
touch-out when using the Tube, DLR or TfL's London Overground
services.

-----
Note that officially it is called "Oyster daily price capping", as
opposed to "Travelcard price capping" - this is to avoid confusion
with Day Travelcards, which is a distinct product.

Thanks for that extra info :-)

I wasn't aware of the bus-only price cap but then my travel is always
on the tube to as close as I can get to my destination and then on the
bus if necessary, doing it bus-only simply takes too long.

I've not explored the routes available on the London Overground yet
but as hackney central is on it (is hackney downs too?) I ought to
have in in my mind as a useful route, do I touch in and out at a gate
as for the underground?

All my journeys are using oyster PAYG except the odd train journey
usually if I'm heading to croydon area.

Mark.

PS I usually don't travel before 10am but am usually travelling
through until midnight or later. I try and avoid the busiest rush-hour
traffic but I'm not sure what times there is a fare change in the
evening rush hour.


Single Underground fare goes down after 1900.

This means if I am PAYGoing to the south east before 1900 it's cheaper
by two buses (£1.80 instead of £2.00) but if I start after 1900 it's
cheaper by Underground and DLR (£1.50 instead of £1.80). If I am
going somewhere not near enough to DLR it depends on whether I would
need a third bus with the bus option.

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

On 20 Feb, 17:40, MarkVarley - MVP
wrote:
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:08:54 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote this gibberish:



MarkVarley - MVP wrote:

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:47:28 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote this gibberish:

MarkVarley - MVP wrote:
a theoretical question about zones and bus use of oyster payg.

if i travel from my home in zone 2 and travel around a bit in zones
1 and 2 (into the realms of travelcard price cap) then travel out to
zone, say, 6 on a bus and back again, am I being charged more
because the bus is in zone 6 when I get on it? or will it come
under my 1&2 travelcard price cap.

I travel from my home in zone 2 all over the underground network and
often using local bus routes out in distant zones and I've never
been able to make sense of what it's costing me.

There are no bus zones nowadays. Bus fares are the same throughout
London, and will contribute towards (or be capped by) your Z1-2
travelcard price cap.

Thats perfect, I had no idea buses were not using the zones system,
I've been here 2 years now and I ought ot have figured it out.

Thank you for your prompt reply :-)

Mark.

A few extra things to note. If you have any Travelcard - whether day,
weekly or longer - and it is in in date (i.e. it hasn't expired) it
can again be used on any London bus route (regardless of whether the
ticket is on paper or Oyster), and can be used until 0430 the morning
after the date of expiration.

Additionally, as you may be aware, there is an Oyster bus-only cap of
£3 a day, and this applies all day (no divide between a peak and off-
peak cap) - which is great as it means the first three journeys cost
the normal 90p bus fare, the fourth costs 30p and then the fifth and
any beyond that are 'free' for the rest of the day.

For reference here is a table of all the Oyster capping levels:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresa...ares/5196.aspx

One thing to note about Oyster price capping [1] is that the cap that
applies to you depends upon when you travel - so before 0930 weekdays
the Peak cap applies, after 0930 the Off-peak cap applies (and the Off-
peak cap applies all weekend and public holidays too).

However just because you might travel before 0930 does not mean that
the system defaults to charging you the Peak cap - instead if the
price of your pre-0930 journey(s) plus the Off-peak cap is cheaper,
then that is what you will pay.

An easy example - before 0930 you make a single journey by Tube
between two stations in zone 2 (e.g. Archway to Camden Town) for which
you will pay £1, then after 0930 you make several journeys in and
around zones 1&2 and reach the zones 1&2 Off-peak cap of £4.80 - thus
the total you pay will be £5.80 (i.e. you will *not* have to pay the
£6.30 Peak cap for z1&2).

It is also possibly to have two caps applied on one day - e.g. a z1&2
Peak cap of £6.30 plus a z2-6 Off-peak cap of £4.30 = total paid
£10.60 (less than the z1-6 Peak cap of £13.30).

Or (unlikely one this!) have a £3 bus cap applied for making four
pre-0930 journeys, then a z1-6 Off-peak cap of £6.50 applied = total
paid £9.50 (less than the z1-6 Peak cap of £13.30).

Point being the system should always ensure you get charged the most
favourable amount on any one day. Just ensure you always touch-in and
touch-out when using the Tube, DLR or TfL's London Overground
services.

-----
Note that officially it is called "Oyster daily price capping", as
opposed to "Travelcard price capping" - this is to avoid confusion
with Day Travelcards, which is a distinct product.

Thanks for that extra info :-)

I wasn't aware of the bus-only price cap but then my travel is always
on the tube to as close as I can get to my destination and then on the
bus if necessary, doing it bus-only simply takes too long.


There are some journeys where taking a bus, or indeed bus hopping, can
be astoundingly quick (especially when it's less busy) - and obviously
sometimes there just isn't a nearby station or a sensible rail route
to get you to your destination. But sure, for many other journeys I'd
be in agreement with you on that.


I've not explored the routes available on the London Overground yet
but as hackney central is on it (is hackney downs too?) I ought to
have in in my mind as a useful route, do I touch in and out at a gate
as for the underground?


Hackney Central is part of the London Overground network, yes - note
that somewhat confusingly "London Overground" only refers to those
mainline rail routes that are now run by TfL, and shown in orange on
the Tube map - see:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...d-Tube-map.gif


However additionally there are now a few other mainline rail routes
(or 'National Rail' routes) that accept Oyster PAYG - but it is
important to note that they are limited in number, and there basically
aren't any south of the river either. To see a map of where you can
use Oyster PAYG on National Rail see this map (PDF):
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...G-08-01-02.pdf


The number of National Rail routes that will take Oyster is set to
expand, but unfortunately it is a slow process - TfL wants all the
train companies to accept it, the train companies are playing hard to
get!

However you'll be pleased to see that Oyster PAYG can now be used from
Hackney Downs for travel either towards Liverpool Street or for travel
towards Seven Sisters/ Tottenham Hale/ Walthamstow Central (but not to
stations any further north) - this has only been the case since
January, and it should be accepted to more London stations on these
lines soon.

And yes, if the station does not have gates then you must ensure that
you touch-in or touch-out on the standalone Oyster reader which should
be located near the entrance to the station or entrance to the
platforms.

Incidentally Hackney Central has just had gates installed, as have
many other stations on the London Overground network.


All my journeys are using oyster PAYG except the odd train journey
usually if I'm heading to croydon area.

Mark.

PS I usually don't travel before 10am but am usually travelling
through until midnight or later. I try and avoid the busiest rush-hour
traffic but I'm not sure what times there is a fare change in the
evening rush hour.


If you do make journeys using mainline trains then you really should
buy a paper Day Travelcard for all the zones you'll be travelling in
that day before you set out - this will save you money compared to
using Oyster PAYG and buying separate rail tickets. Day Travelcards
are much cheaper after 0930, when Off-peak versions are available -
the Peak Day Travelcards are pricey and worth avoiding if possible!

Regarding fare change times. There are two separate concepts here -
one is Peak (before 0930 weekdays) and Off-peak (all other times plus
all day weekends and public holidays). Oyster card caps are available
in both Peak and Off-peak flavours, though as I explain above the
system will charge you separately for peak journey(s) plsu the Off-
peak cap if that is cheaper.

The other concept is the two Oyster fare levels - the more expensive
fare, which applies 7am-7pm weekdays, or the cheaper fare which
applies at all other times (including all day weekends and public
holidays). To avoid confusion TfL does *not* refer to these as peak
and off-peak - publicly it merely refers to them according to the
times in which they apply. You will be charged the higher fare if you
begin or end your journey within the 7am-7pm window (though to confuse
matters yet further, on the Watford Junction to Euston line *only* the
cheaper fare applies for much of the day, so long as you are *only*
making a journey on that line!).

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:37:46 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote this gibberish:

On 20 Feb, 17:40, MarkVarley - MVP
wrote:
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:08:54 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote this gibberish:



MarkVarley - MVP wrote:

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 14:47:28 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote this gibberish:

MarkVarley - MVP wrote:
a theoretical question about zones and bus use of oyster payg.

if i travel from my home in zone 2 and travel around a bit in zones
1 and 2 (into the realms of travelcard price cap) then travel out to
zone, say, 6 on a bus and back again, am I being charged more
because the bus is in zone 6 when I get on it? or will it come
under my 1&2 travelcard price cap.

I travel from my home in zone 2 all over the underground network and
often using local bus routes out in distant zones and I've never
been able to make sense of what it's costing me.

There are no bus zones nowadays. Bus fares are the same throughout
London, and will contribute towards (or be capped by) your Z1-2
travelcard price cap.

Thats perfect, I had no idea buses were not using the zones system,
I've been here 2 years now and I ought ot have figured it out.

Thank you for your prompt reply :-)

Mark.

A few extra things to note. If you have any Travelcard - whether day,
weekly or longer - and it is in in date (i.e. it hasn't expired) it
can again be used on any London bus route (regardless of whether the
ticket is on paper or Oyster), and can be used until 0430 the morning
after the date of expiration.

Additionally, as you may be aware, there is an Oyster bus-only cap of
£3 a day, and this applies all day (no divide between a peak and off-
peak cap) - which is great as it means the first three journeys cost
the normal 90p bus fare, the fourth costs 30p and then the fifth and
any beyond that are 'free' for the rest of the day.

For reference here is a table of all the Oyster capping levels:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresa...ares/5196.aspx

One thing to note about Oyster price capping [1] is that the cap that
applies to you depends upon when you travel - so before 0930 weekdays
the Peak cap applies, after 0930 the Off-peak cap applies (and the Off-
peak cap applies all weekend and public holidays too).

However just because you might travel before 0930 does not mean that
the system defaults to charging you the Peak cap - instead if the
price of your pre-0930 journey(s) plus the Off-peak cap is cheaper,
then that is what you will pay.

An easy example - before 0930 you make a single journey by Tube
between two stations in zone 2 (e.g. Archway to Camden Town) for which
you will pay £1, then after 0930 you make several journeys in and
around zones 1&2 and reach the zones 1&2 Off-peak cap of £4.80 - thus
the total you pay will be £5.80 (i.e. you will *not* have to pay the
£6.30 Peak cap for z1&2).

It is also possibly to have two caps applied on one day - e.g. a z1&2
Peak cap of £6.30 plus a z2-6 Off-peak cap of £4.30 = total paid
£10.60 (less than the z1-6 Peak cap of £13.30).

Or (unlikely one this!) have a £3 bus cap applied for making four
pre-0930 journeys, then a z1-6 Off-peak cap of £6.50 applied = total
paid £9.50 (less than the z1-6 Peak cap of £13.30).

Point being the system should always ensure you get charged the most
favourable amount on any one day. Just ensure you always touch-in and
touch-out when using the Tube, DLR or TfL's London Overground
services.

-----
Note that officially it is called "Oyster daily price capping", as
opposed to "Travelcard price capping" - this is to avoid confusion
with Day Travelcards, which is a distinct product.

Thanks for that extra info :-)

I wasn't aware of the bus-only price cap but then my travel is always
on the tube to as close as I can get to my destination and then on the
bus if necessary, doing it bus-only simply takes too long.


There are some journeys where taking a bus, or indeed bus hopping, can
be astoundingly quick (especially when it's less busy) - and obviously
sometimes there just isn't a nearby station or a sensible rail route
to get you to your destination. But sure, for many other journeys I'd
be in agreement with you on that.

Will these routes come-up ion the TFL website thingy when searching
for fastest routes? that could be very handy.

I've not explored the routes available on the London Overground yet
but as hackney central is on it (is hackney downs too?) I ought to
have in in my mind as a useful route, do I touch in and out at a gate
as for the underground?


Hackney Central is part of the London Overground network, yes - note
that somewhat confusingly "London Overground" only refers to those
mainline rail routes that are now run by TfL, and shown in orange on
the Tube map - see:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...d-Tube-map.gif


However additionally there are now a few other mainline rail routes
(or 'National Rail' routes) that accept Oyster PAYG - but it is
important to note that they are limited in number, and there basically
aren't any south of the river either. To see a map of where you can
use Oyster PAYG on National Rail see this map (PDF):
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...G-08-01-02.pdf


The number of National Rail routes that will take Oyster is set to
expand, but unfortunately it is a slow process - TfL wants all the
train companies to accept it, the train companies are playing hard to
get!

However you'll be pleased to see that Oyster PAYG can now be used from
Hackney Downs for travel either towards Liverpool Street or for travel
towards Seven Sisters/ Tottenham Hale/ Walthamstow Central (but not to
stations any further north) - this has only been the case since
January, and it should be accepted to more London stations on these
lines soon.

Is there any difference between national rail oyster PAYG routes and
london overground routes as far as touching in and out is concerned?
and is there a way to make the TFL website route thingy include oyster
PAYG rail routes? I can only see it including all rail routes, or not.

And yes, if the station does not have gates then you must ensure that
you touch-in or touch-out on the standalone Oyster reader which should
be located near the entrance to the station or entrance to the
platforms.

Incidentally Hackney Central has just had gates installed, as have
many other stations on the London Overground network.

All my journeys are using oyster PAYG except the odd train journey
usually if I'm heading to croydon area.

Mark.

PS I usually don't travel before 10am but am usually travelling
through until midnight or later. I try and avoid the busiest rush-hour
traffic but I'm not sure what times there is a fare change in the
evening rush hour.


If you do make journeys using mainline trains then you really should
buy a paper Day Travelcard for all the zones you'll be travelling in
that day before you set out - this will save you money compared to
using Oyster PAYG and buying separate rail tickets. Day Travelcards
are much cheaper after 0930, when Off-peak versions are available -
the Peak Day Travelcards are pricey and worth avoiding if possible!

one of my regular journeys is Hackney to Horley which I usually do via
bus to london bridge on PAYG and then buy a paper return ticket to
horley which lets me come back via either london bridge or victoria
(which can be handy for me), is it possible to get a travel card that
includes as far out as horley? is that a cheaper option than my 2x90p
plus £9.10 paper ticket? anything else I can do to cheapen this route?
I do it a couple of days per month on average and never during morning
peak.

the local shops sell travelcards so I could easily buy one before
starting the journey. can they be loaded onto my PAYG oyster and if so
can they be charged to my PAYG account or do I have to pay there and
then?

Regarding fare change times. There are two separate concepts here -
one is Peak (before 0930 weekdays) and Off-peak (all other times plus
all day weekends and public holidays). Oyster card caps are available
in both Peak and Off-peak flavours, though as I explain above the
system will charge you separately for peak journey(s) plsu the Off-
peak cap if that is cheaper.

The other concept is the two Oyster fare levels - the more expensive
fare, which applies 7am-7pm weekdays, or the cheaper fare which
applies at all other times (including all day weekends and public
holidays). To avoid confusion TfL does *not* refer to these as peak
and off-peak - publicly it merely refers to them according to the
times in which they apply. You will be charged the higher fare if you
begin or end your journey within the 7am-7pm window (though to confuse
matters yet further, on the Watford Junction to Euston line *only* the
cheaper fare applies for much of the day, so long as you are *only*
making a journey on that line!).

Many thanks for all your input.
--
Mark.
www.MarkVarleyPhoto.co.uk


--
Mark
www.markvarleyphoto.co.uk
www.twistedphotography.co.uk
www.twistedarts.co.uk
www.facelessladies.com
www.mvp-gallery.com
www.beautifulbondage.net

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

On 20 Feb, 20:10, MarkVarley - MVP
wrote:
Is there any difference between national rail oyster PAYG routes and
london overground routes as far as touching in and out is concerned?

No.

and is there a way to make the TFL website route thingy include oyster
PAYG rail routes? I can only see it including all rail routes, or not.

No.

one of my regular journeys is Hackney to Horley which I usually do via
bus to london bridge on PAYG and then buy a paper return ticket to
horley which lets me come back via either london bridge or victoria
(which can be handy for me), is it possible to get a travel card that
includes as far out as horley? is that a cheaper option than my 2x90p
plus £9.10 paper ticket? anything else I can do to cheapen this route?
I do it a couple of days per month on average and never during morning
peak.

Off-peak Z1-6 Travelcard is £7 plus a Cheap Day Return from Boundary
Zone 6 to Horley for ca. £5. Not cheaper, but gives you unlimited
travel throughout London for the day.

the local shops sell travelcards so I could easily buy one before
starting the journey. can they be loaded onto my PAYG oyster and if so
can they be charged to my PAYG account or do I have to pay there and
then?

Weekly and longer Travelcards can be loaded onto your card, but you
still have to pay cash. Day Travelcards on Oyster don't exist.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:45:25 -0800 (PST), Mr Thant
wrote this gibberish:

On 20 Feb, 20:10, MarkVarley - MVP
wrote:
Is there any difference between national rail oyster PAYG routes and
london overground routes as far as touching in and out is concerned?

No.

cool

and is there a way to make the TFL website route thingy include oyster
PAYG rail routes? I can only see it including all rail routes, or not.

No.

Bugger.

one of my regular journeys is Hackney to Horley which I usually do via
bus to london bridge on PAYG and then buy a paper return ticket to
horley which lets me come back via either london bridge or victoria
(which can be handy for me), is it possible to get a travel card that
includes as far out as horley? is that a cheaper option than my 2x90p
plus £9.10 paper ticket? anything else I can do to cheapen this route?
I do it a couple of days per month on average and never during morning
peak.

Off-peak Z1-6 Travelcard is £7 plus a Cheap Day Return from Boundary
Zone 6 to Horley for ca. £5. Not cheaper, but gives you unlimited
travel throughout London for the day.

will keep it in mind but not likely of any use to me in this case.

the local shops sell travelcards so I could easily buy one before
starting the journey. can they be loaded onto my PAYG oyster and if so
can they be charged to my PAYG account or do I have to pay there and
then?

Weekly and longer Travelcards can be loaded onto your card, but you
still have to pay cash. Day Travelcards on Oyster don't exist.

U

thank you! much appreciated.

--
Mark.
www.MarkVarleyPhoto.co.uk

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

Weekly and longer Travelcards can be loaded onto your card, but you
still have to pay cash. Day Travelcards on Oyster don't exist.

Out of interest, why don't they exist? Surely the system could accomodate
it?

LEWIS

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:04:36 +0000, MarkVarley - MVP
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:45:25 -0800 (PST), Mr Thant
wrote this gibberish:

On 20 Feb, 20:10, MarkVarley - MVP
wrote:
Is there any difference between national rail oyster PAYG routes and
london overground routes as far as touching in and out is concerned?

No.

cool

Specifically, "London Overground" is just one company that operates
"National Rail" trains.

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

On Feb 21, 1:52*am, "Lew 1"
wrote:
Weekly and longer Travelcards *can be loaded onto your card, but you
still have to pay cash. Day Travelcards on Oyster don't exist.

Out of interest, why don't they exist? Surely the system could accomodate
it?

LEWIS

Because TfL wants daily capping to make day travelcards redundant.
Trouble is, all the rules are operating as if NR accepts PAYG, even
though that wished-for situation is years away.

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

On 21 Feb, 05:22, James Farrar wrote:
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:04:36 +0000, MarkVarley - MVP

wrote:
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:45:25 -0800 (PST), Mr Thant
wrote this gibberish:

On 20 Feb, 20:10, MarkVarley - MVP
wrote:
Is there any difference between national rail oyster PAYG routes and
london overground routes as far as touching in and out is concerned?

No.

cool

Specifically, "London Overground" is just one company that operates
"National Rail" trains.


Yes, but...

In terms of passenger facing communications TfL does refer to "London
Overground" separately from "National Rail" services - passengers who
don't know the story behind all this are thus quite entitled to think
of London Overground as being a different beast from National Rail.

I would suggest that the original poster doesn't worry about all the
details that I'm about to go into!


In terms of the arrangements London Overground is quite different from
other National Rail Train Operating Companies* - the Department for
Transport (DfT) has ceded responsibility for running the service to
TfL, and TfL has subsequently appointed a concessionaire (i.e.
operator) to run the day to day operations. Whether TfL could ever
have operated it all directly through a public-sector subsidiary
company I don't know, I suspect the deal between TfL and the DfT
doesn't allow for this though. Of course TfL has transferred
management of several stations that are shared with the Bakerloo line
over to London Underground Ltd. (LUL), so in a sense they has brought
them into direct public-sector operation.

And when the ELLX opens, the route from Dalston down to New Cross/ New
Cross Gate will not be part of the 'National Rail network' as such -
it will be (indeed already is) owned by TfL. AIUI ownership of this
stretch is actually going to stay vested in LUL, and LUL will remain
as the named "infrastructure controller" (which is an important legal
term for reasons I'm not clear about), though this is surely simply
for the sake of convenience apart from anything else - there really
isn't much point in TfL shuffling the legal ownership around between
its various subsidiary companies because after all it owns them all!


-----
* The London Overground arrangement has strong similarities to the
Merseyrail arrangement on Merseyside, where the Merseytravel PTA is
responsible for arranging a concessionaire to operate train services
on the Northern and Wirral lines there. However I understand that
under the first concession agreement the Merseytravel PTA took the
revenue risk, whilst under the current concession agreement the
concessionaire takes the revenue risk - the current concessionaire
being a Serco/NedRailways joint venture. Meanwhile on London
Overground the revenue risk is borne by TfL alone, not by the
concessionaire LOROL.

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

"MIG" wrote in message
...
On Feb 21, 1:52 am, "Lew 1"
wrote:
Weekly and longer Travelcards can be loaded onto your card, but you
still have to pay cash. Day Travelcards on Oyster don't exist.

Out of interest, why don't they exist? Surely the system could accomodate
it?

LEWIS

Because TfL wants daily capping to make day travelcards redundant.
Trouble is, all the rules are operating as if NR accepts PAYG, even
though that wished-for situation is years away.

------------------------------------------

I think you've misspelt, decades

tim

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 07:26:33 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote this gibberish:

On 21 Feb, 05:22, James Farrar wrote:
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:04:36 +0000, MarkVarley - MVP

wrote:
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:45:25 -0800 (PST), Mr Thant
wrote this gibberish:

On 20 Feb, 20:10, MarkVarley - MVP
wrote:
Is there any difference between national rail oyster PAYG routes and
london overground routes as far as touching in and out is concerned?

No.

cool

Specifically, "London Overground" is just one company that operates
"National Rail" trains.


Yes, but...

In terms of passenger facing communications TfL does refer to "London
Overground" separately from "National Rail" services - passengers who
don't know the story behind all this are thus quite entitled to think
of London Overground as being a different beast from National Rail.

snipped

As someone who knows buggerall about who runs what and what is
technically what I see 'London Overground' as an oyster payg rail
service like the underground and 'national rail' as 'need to buy a
ticket'.


--
Mark.
www.MarkVarleyPhoto.co.uk

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

On 21 Feb, 17:36, MarkVarley - MVP
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 07:26:33 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote this gibberish:

On 21 Feb, 05:22, James Farrar wrote:
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:04:36 +0000, MarkVarley - MVP
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:45:25 -0800 (PST), Mr Thant
wrote this gibberish:

On 20 Feb, 20:10, MarkVarley - MVP
wrote:
Is there any difference between national rail oyster PAYG routes and
london overground routes as far as touching in and out is concerned?

No.

cool

Specifically, "London Overground" is just one company that operates
"National Rail" trains.

Yes, but...

In terms of passenger facing communications TfL does refer to "London
Overground" separately from "National Rail" services - passengers who
don't know the story behind all this are thus quite entitled to think
of London Overground as being a different beast from National Rail.

snipped

As someone who knows buggerall about who runs what and what is
technically what I see 'London Overground' as an oyster payg rail
service like the underground and 'national rail' as 'need to buy a
ticket'.


Quite - and that was exactly the point I was trying to make in
response to James Farrar!

Of course, the world isn't ever quite that simple! As I pointed out
earlier there are a limited number of National Rail routes on which
you can use Oyster PAYG - however since January several have been
added (including all the Chiltern and c2c routes within London plus
some of the 'one' railway routes) and more are in the pipeline.
Unfortunately this is a slow process, and is progressing on a TOC by
TOC* basis.

Anyway, for full information on which National Rail routes you can
currently use Oyster PAYG on, including a link to a map, go to this
TfL webpage:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/5823.aspx

One day, eventually, it will be possible to use it on all National
Rail routes in London.

-----
* TOC = Train Operating Company

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

"tim (not at home)" wrote in message
...

"MIG" wrote in message

Because TfL wants daily capping to make day travelcards redundant.
Trouble is, all the rules are operating as if NR accepts PAYG, even
though that wished-for situation is years away.

I think you've misspelt, decades

Er.. January 2009 within the London Fare zonal area.

As discussed regularly, PAYG is unlikely to ever work on a national basis,
due to the balance required for long distance travel.

Paul S

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...

"tim (not at home)" wrote in message
...

"MIG" wrote in message

Because TfL wants daily capping to make day travelcards redundant.
Trouble is, all the rules are operating as if NR accepts PAYG, even
though that wished-for situation is years away.

I think you've misspelt, decades

Er.. January 2009 within the London Fare zonal area.

I don't believe it.

Some of the TOC's haven't been re-let since Ken tried to persuade them to
introduce it voluntarily and they have no obligation to even start before
then

tim

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

On 21 Feb, 19:40, "Paul Scott" wrote:

"tim (not at home)" wrote:

"MIG" wrote in message
Because TfL wants daily capping to make day travelcards redundant.
Trouble is, all the rules are operating as if NR accepts PAYG, even
though that wished-for situation is years away.
I think you've misspelt, decades

Er.. January 2009 within the London Fare zonal area.


That's what TfL is hoping for, which doesn't mean it is going to
happen. Mr Thant, on his weblog entry that summarises the February TfL
board meeting, describes the roll out of Oyster PAYG as being
"pencilled in for next January"...
http://londonconnections.blogspot.co...ellaneous.html

Some of the TOCs might thus still be wielding their erasers.


In fact, let's take a look at what the Board papers actually say on
this matter - in the Transport Commissioner's Report to the Board,
under the 'London Rail' section it says this:

---quote---
Oyster on National Rail
[...]
Discussions with the passenger train operator companies (TOCS)
continue in the effort to reach contractual agreement to extend Oyster
PAYG acceptance across the remainder of the suburban rail network in
London. Most of north London is now included but PAYG only applies to
five Network Rail stations south of the Thames (Elephant & Castle,
London Bridge on Thameslink and Richmond, Kew Gardens and Clapham
Junction on London Overground), see network plan below. The programme
of installation is expected to take 12 months to complete with a
target implementation date of January 2009.
---/quote---


That can be found on page 15 of this large PDF document (marked as
page 6 of 15 of the Commisioner's Report):
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...a-08-02-06.pdf


Oyster PAYG will happen on National Rail in London, I'm sure of that -
however we're into the endgame here, with the TOCs and TfL tussling
over the contractual details - in other words the money! Who's going
to pay for things, who's going to get paid what, etc etc.

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...

On 21 Feb, 19:40, "Paul Scott" wrote:

"tim (not at home)" wrote:

"MIG" wrote in message
Because TfL wants daily capping to make day travelcards redundant.
Trouble is, all the rules are operating as if NR accepts PAYG, even
though that wished-for situation is years away.
I think you've misspelt, decades

Er.. January 2009 within the London Fare zonal area.


That's what TfL is hoping for, which doesn't mean it is going to
happen. Mr Thant, on his weblog entry that summarises the February TfL
board meeting, describes the roll out of Oyster PAYG as being
"pencilled in for next January"...
http://londonconnections.blogspot.co...ellaneous.html

Some of the TOCs might thus still be wielding their erasers.


Sure, I've seen all that [I've snipped it] - the previous poster's view was
that it will take decades, ie more than 20 years...

Paul S

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

On 21 Feb, 23:11, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote in message

...





On 21 Feb, 19:40, "Paul Scott" wrote:

"tim (not at home)" wrote:

"MIG" wrote in message
Because TfL wants daily capping to make day travelcards redundant.
Trouble is, all the rules are operating as if NR accepts PAYG, even
though that wished-for situation is years away.
I think you've misspelt, decades

Er.. January 2009 within the London Fare zonal area.

That's what TfL is hoping for, which doesn't mean it is going to
happen. Mr Thant, on his weblog entry that summarises the February TfL
board meeting, describes the roll out of Oyster PAYG as being
"pencilled in for next January"...
http://londonconnections.blogspot.co...board-papers-m...

Some of the TOCs might thus still be wielding their erasers.

Sure, I've seen all that [I've snipped it] - the previous poster's view was
that it will take decades, ie more than 20 years...

Paul S

Some comments on the Oystercard rollout on London Overground at

http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/document/3136/get

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 07:26:33 -0800 (PST), Mizter T
wrote:

On 21 Feb, 05:22, James Farrar wrote:
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 22:04:36 +0000, MarkVarley - MVP

wrote:
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 13:45:25 -0800 (PST), Mr Thant
wrote this gibberish:

On 20 Feb, 20:10, MarkVarley - MVP
wrote:
Is there any difference between national rail oyster PAYG routes and
london overground routes as far as touching in and out is concerned?

No.

cool

Specifically, "London Overground" is just one company that operates
"National Rail" trains.


Yes, but...

In terms of passenger facing communications TfL does refer to "London
Overground" separately from "National Rail" services - passengers who
don't know the story behind all this are thus quite entitled to think
of London Overground as being a different beast from National Rail.

Which, of course, right now it isn't.

I wonder if Livingstone's master plan is to eventually end up with all
suburban rail routes controlled by TfL and branded as LO, with
National Rail being reserved for long-distance train services.


Incidentally, passing through Waterloo LU station on Wednesday
morning, I noticed new-looking signs to the mainline station
(presumably installed ater E* decamped to SPI) simply saying "Trains"
with the double-arrow symbol. I thought LU had settled on directions
to mainline stations being the name of the station and the said
symbol, but apparently not.

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

On 22 Feb, 03:18, James Farrar wrote:
Incidentally, passing through Waterloo LU station on Wednesday
morning, I noticed new-looking signs to the mainline station
(presumably installed ater E* decamped to SPI) simply saying "Trains"
with the double-arrow symbol.

I think that's a Eurostar-era sign referring to both services.

I thought LU had settled on directions
to mainline stations being the name of the station and the said
symbol, but apparently not.

They use "National Rail" most of the time in new signage. Moorgate has
"Trains to Stevenage" and "Trains to Bedford" of course.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 01:01:05 -0800 (PST), Mr Thant
wrote:

On 22 Feb, 03:18, James Farrar wrote:
Incidentally, passing through Waterloo LU station on Wednesday
morning, I noticed new-looking signs to the mainline station
(presumably installed ater E* decamped to SPI) simply saying "Trains"
with the double-arrow symbol.

I think that's a Eurostar-era sign referring to both services.

It looked new with no sign of a patch covering the E* logo (though I
could be wrong!)

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...

On 21 Feb, 19:40, "Paul Scott" wrote:

"tim (not at home)" wrote:

"MIG" wrote in message
Because TfL wants daily capping to make day travelcards redundant.
Trouble is, all the rules are operating as if NR accepts PAYG, even
though that wished-for situation is years away.
I think you've misspelt, decades

Er.. January 2009 within the London Fare zonal area.


That's what TfL is hoping for, which doesn't mean it is going to
happen. Mr Thant, on his weblog entry that summarises the February TfL
board meeting, describes the roll out of Oyster PAYG as being
"pencilled in for next January"...
http://londonconnections.blogspot.co...ellaneous.html

Some of the TOCs might thus still be wielding their erasers.


Sure, I've seen all that [I've snipped it] - the previous poster's view
was that it will take decades, ie more than 20 years...

I was prepared to compromise on one (decade)

tim

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:03:32 -0800 (PST), Matthew Dickinson
wrote:

On 21 Feb, 23:11, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote in message

...





On 21 Feb, 19:40, "Paul Scott" wrote:

"tim (not at home)" wrote:

"MIG" wrote in message
Because TfL wants daily capping to make day travelcards redundant.
Trouble is, all the rules are operating as if NR accepts PAYG, even
though that wished-for situation is years away.
I think you've misspelt, decades

Er.. January 2009 within the London Fare zonal area.

That's what TfL is hoping for, which doesn't mean it is going to
happen. Mr Thant, on his weblog entry that summarises the February TfL
board meeting, describes the roll out of Oyster PAYG as being
"pencilled in for next January"...
http://londonconnections.blogspot.co...board-papers-m...

Some of the TOCs might thus still be wielding their erasers.

Sure, I've seen all that [I've snipped it] - the previous poster's view was
that it will take decades, ie more than 20 years...

Well having read Roger Ford's March Informed Sources on ITSO
implementation (or lack thereof) for SWT I'll be astonished if we get
Oyster PAYG done for Jan 2009. Seems like the DfT haven't got a clue
what they've required of the TOCs and everyone is suddenly finding the
"detail" a bit complicated.

Given we move into the "no politically advantageous announcements" phase
of the Mayoral Elections soon then we won't hear anything until beyond
May. There may even be issues about whether some issues can be signed
off if they require Mayoral approval. If agreements are not finalised
before then for those companies still holding out then there isn't a
chance of the physical installation works being done by Jan 2009. This
is before you get to the point of whether cards can be procured, staff
trained, and all the ticket machines, existing gates and back off
systems modified to handle PAYG.

While I expect all the Mayoral candidates will say they want to see
Oyster PAYG rolled out on NR I still don't see what incentive there is
for the TOCs to play ball - particularly at the moment.

Some comments on the Oystercard rollout on London Overground at

http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/document/3136/get

And what a very interesting set of comments they are. Shows that real
life is even more complex than all the debates we had on here! Nice to
see though that Overground seems to be doing very well in its early days
with lots of money rolling in. That might be putting smiles of the faces
of people at LOROL if the concession terms are a tad favourable when it
comes to revenue levels.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:03:32 -0800 (PST), Matthew Dickinson
wrote:


Sure, I've seen all that [I've snipped it] - the previous poster's view
was
that it will take decades, ie more than 20 years...

Well having read Roger Ford's March Informed Sources on ITSO
implementation (or lack thereof) for SWT I'll be astonished if we get
Oyster PAYG done for Jan 2009. Seems like the DfT haven't got a clue
what they've required of the TOCs and everyone is suddenly finding the
"detail" a bit complicated.


Another interpretation is that Oyster will work ages before ITSO -
especially as the new Waterloo gates (170 including the subways according to
NR) will only have magnetic card and Oyster readers, not ITSO.

I'm sure this has been one of your previous predictions?

Paul S

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

On 22 Feb, 01:03, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:
On 21 Feb, 23:11, "Paul Scott" wrote:



"Mizter T" wrote in message

...

On 21 Feb, 19:40, "Paul Scott" wrote:

"tim (not at home)" wrote:

"MIG" wrote in message
Because TfL wants daily capping to make day travelcards redundant.
Trouble is, all the rules are operating as if NR accepts PAYG, even
though that wished-for situation is years away.
I think you've misspelt, decades

Er.. January 2009 within the London Fare zonal area.

That's what TfL is hoping for, which doesn't mean it is going to
happen. Mr Thant, on his weblog entry that summarises the February TfL
board meeting, describes the roll out of Oyster PAYG as being
"pencilled in for next January"...
http://londonconnections.blogspot.co...board-papers-m...

Some of the TOCs might thus still be wielding their erasers.

Sure, I've seen all that [I've snipped it] - the previous poster's view was
that it will take decades, ie more than 20 years...

Paul S

Some comments on the Oystercard rollout on London Overground at

http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/document/3136/get

The top of page 3 of the document mentions "zone 10"?!

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:49:33 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:


"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:03:32 -0800 (PST), Matthew Dickinson
wrote:


Sure, I've seen all that [I've snipped it] - the previous poster's view
was
that it will take decades, ie more than 20 years...

Well having read Roger Ford's March Informed Sources on ITSO
implementation (or lack thereof) for SWT I'll be astonished if we get
Oyster PAYG done for Jan 2009. Seems like the DfT haven't got a clue
what they've required of the TOCs and everyone is suddenly finding the
"detail" a bit complicated.


Another interpretation is that Oyster will work ages before ITSO -
especially as the new Waterloo gates (170 including the subways according to
NR) will only have magnetic card and Oyster readers, not ITSO.

I'm sure this has been one of your previous predictions?

I can't recall if I've predicted that or not. I agree Oyster cards will
be accepted at Waterloo's new gateline based on what the article says.
What I am far less certain about is whether SWT will have installed any
further issuing capacity for Oyster cards at its stations or if TfL will
have managed to get existing gates converted at other SWT locations or
validators installed within the zones. Having PAYG notionally accepted
on NR routes is a nonsense if passengers can't top their cards up at
ticket offices or ticket machines. What on earth happens if people run
out of value or have a card problem - "Sorry nowt to do with us, call
TfL or pop to the newsagents". That's about as customer unfriendly as
you can get.

Read the London Travelwatch report referenced elsewhere in the thread
where SWT have refused to install *one* Oyster compatible ticket machine
with the result that the nearest Oyster Ticket Stop is the busiest
outlet in the entire agent network. I dread to think how much SWT must
be losing and that's with only two rail services accepting PAYG from
that station.

If we have this nonsense with just SWT imagine how daft it becomes when
you add in FCC, Southern and South Eastern. There appears to be a
little more enlightenment north of the river - I wonder why that might
be?
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

oyster bus travel and price capping
 

On Feb 22, 10:19*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:49:33 -0000, "Paul Scott"





wrote:

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:03:32 -0800 (PST), Matthew Dickinson
wrote:

Sure, I've seen all that [I've snipped it] - the previous poster's view
was
that it will take decades, ie more than 20 years...

Well having read Roger Ford's March Informed Sources on ITSO
implementation (or lack thereof) for SWT I'll be astonished if we get
Oyster PAYG done for Jan 2009. *Seems like the DfT haven't got a clue
what they've required of the TOCs and everyone is suddenly finding the
"detail" a bit complicated.

Another interpretation is that Oyster will work ages before ITSO -
especially as the new Waterloo gates (170 including the subways according to
NR) will only have magnetic card and Oyster readers, not ITSO.

I'm sure this has been one of your previous predictions?

I can't recall if I've predicted that or not. I agree Oyster cards will
be accepted at Waterloo's new gateline based on what the article says.
What I am far less certain about is whether SWT will have installed any
further issuing capacity for Oyster cards at its stations or if TfL will
have managed to get existing gates converted at other SWT locations or
validators installed within the zones. *Having PAYG notionally accepted
on NR routes is a nonsense if passengers can't top their cards up at
ticket offices or ticket machines. What on earth happens if people run
out of value or have a card problem - "Sorry nowt to do with us, call
TfL or pop to the newsagents". *That's about as customer unfriendly as
you can get.

Read the London Travelwatch report referenced elsewhere in the thread
where SWT have refused to install *one* Oyster compatible ticket machine
with the result that the nearest Oyster Ticket Stop is the busiest
outlet in the entire agent network. *I dread to think how much SWT must
be losing and that's with only two rail services accepting PAYG from
that station.

If we have this nonsense with just SWT imagine how daft it becomes when
you add in FCC, Southern and South Eastern. * There appears to be a
little more enlightenment north of the river - I wonder why that might
be?

Yet South Eastern, which doesn't accept PAYG has at least one machine
and now at least one ticket office selling Oyster. A possible
explanation is the interchanges with DLR, but both are at the NR
ticket office (the machine operated by TfL) and the DLR doesn't
generally have Oyster top up machines.