Richard wrote:
On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:04:52 GMT, wrote:
Is it easy to get a Navigo card these days?

delay

Yes, a "Navigo Découverte" is an unregistered Navigo card that cannot
be cancelled and reissued if lost, etc. You get a shrink-wrapped kit
with the card, a plastic holder for it and a photocard to stick your
picture to. Costs ?5 from stations, agents, etc.

In case anyone is thinking of getting a Navigo on their next visit to Paris,
please note that there is no Pay-As-You-Go facility. You can only load a
weekly or longer Travelcard-type "Carte Orange" on to a Navigo, and the
weekly/monthly seasons are only valid for calendar weeks/months (week
starting on Monday, month starting on the 1st). The 5 euro charge is AFAIK
not refundable.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)
www.stayparis.net

On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 14:41:05 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

In case anyone is thinking of getting a Navigo on their next visit to Paris,
please note that there is no Pay-As-You-Go facility. You can only load a
weekly or longer Travelcard-type "Carte Orange" on to a Navigo, and the
weekly/monthly seasons are only valid for calendar weeks/months (week
starting on Monday, month starting on the 1st).

Why do they do that? Doesn't it just result in long queues?

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 19:12:12 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:

On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 14:41:05 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

In case anyone is thinking of getting a Navigo on their next visit to Paris,
please note that there is no Pay-As-You-Go facility. You can only load a
weekly or longer Travelcard-type "Carte Orange" on to a Navigo, and the
weekly/monthly seasons are only valid for calendar weeks/months (week
starting on Monday, month starting on the 1st).

Why do they do that? Doesn't it just result in long queues?

I think it's just because they always did. At the moment, as the
original Richard says, the Navigo just offers what has always been
available on paper, and nothing more. I got one because, well, I
would, and also because I was there for almost a week, starting on a
Monday... Otherwise I would have got a carnet or daily tickets as
necessary.

Richard.

On 5 Mar, 00:54, Mizter T wrote:
On 4 Mar, 23:25, Rupert Candy wrote:

DLR ticket machines aren't that unique - the Tramlink ones are of the
exact same design!

Indeed so, as are most of the ticket machines on the Paris Metro -
which have recently been adapted with smartcard readers for the Navigo
card. So it can be done!

And indeed it already has been done, hence this thread! The Scheidt &
Bachmann made ticket machines originally installed by Silverlink at
stations on the Watford - Euston line and some stations on the North
London Line have been so modified. The Oyster readers in fact appeared
on them ages ago, around the time of the handover to London
Overground, but as the OP reports they have only just been turned on -
which does suggest there were some glitches which meant they weren't
yet ready to be unleashed for public use (I'm guessing there were
software issues but I don't know so).



It would be really useful if the DLR machines did do Oyster - I was a
bit stumped the the other day with a friend who needed to top up their
Oyster card before catching the DLR at Shadwell - the nearest place we
could find was on Commercial Road.

It does seem a massive oversight to me, when TfL is trying so hard to
promote Oyster as a replacement for all paper-based tickets (which it
blatantly isn't, at least not yet!)

Well, of course Oyster Pay-as-you-go isn't available on most National
Rail services in London - but that's not for the want of TfL and the
Mayor's trying! It will happen in the next few years.

But the biggest flaw with oyster is the "bus replacement" issue. If I
get a tube from Epping to Oxford Circue, and there's a "replacement
bus" from Loughton to Leytonstone, I get charged for at least two tube
journeys, and maybe a bus journey too. In many cases at the weekend,a
paper ticket is cheaper, and certainly less stressful.

In message
Paul Weaver wrote:

On 5 Mar, 00:54, Mizter T wrote:
On 4 Mar, 23:25, Rupert Candy wrote:

DLR ticket machines aren't that unique - the Tramlink ones are of the
exact same design!

Indeed so, as are most of the ticket machines on the Paris Metro -
which have recently been adapted with smartcard readers for the Navigo
card. So it can be done!

And indeed it already has been done, hence this thread! The Scheidt &
Bachmann made ticket machines originally installed by Silverlink at
stations on the Watford - Euston line and some stations on the North
London Line have been so modified. The Oyster readers in fact appeared
on them ages ago, around the time of the handover to London
Overground, but as the OP reports they have only just been turned on -
which does suggest there were some glitches which meant they weren't
yet ready to be unleashed for public use (I'm guessing there were
software issues but I don't know so).



It would be really useful if the DLR machines did do Oyster - I was a
bit stumped the the other day with a friend who needed to top up their
Oyster card before catching the DLR at Shadwell - the nearest place we
could find was on Commercial Road.

It does seem a massive oversight to me, when TfL is trying so hard to
promote Oyster as a replacement for all paper-based tickets (which it
blatantly isn't, at least not yet!)

Well, of course Oyster Pay-as-you-go isn't available on most National
Rail services in London - but that's not for the want of TfL and the
Mayor's trying! It will happen in the next few years.

But the biggest flaw with oyster is the "bus replacement" issue. If I
get a tube from Epping to Oxford Circue, and there's a "replacement
bus" from Loughton to Leytonstone, I get charged for at least two tube
journeys, and maybe a bus journey too. In many cases at the weekend,a
paper ticket is cheaper, and certainly less stressful.


Whe I've used a replacement bus in London, the Oyster reader on the bus
wasn't in use. And how can a paper ticket be less stressful?

--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html

On 25 Apr, 01:15, Paul Weaver wrote:

On 5 Mar, 00:54, Mizter T wrote:

On 4 Mar, 23:25, Rupert Candy wrote:

(snip)

It does seem a massive oversight to me, when TfL is trying so hard to
promote Oyster as a replacement for all paper-based tickets (which it
blatantly isn't, at least not yet!)

Well, of course Oyster Pay-as-you-go isn't available on most National
Rail services in London - but that's not for the want of TfL and the
Mayor's trying! It will happen in the next few years.

But the biggest flaw with oyster is the "bus replacement" issue. If I
get a tube from Epping to Oxford Circue, and there's a "replacement
bus" from Loughton to Leytonstone, I get charged for at least two tube
journeys, and maybe a bus journey too. In many cases at the weekend,a
paper ticket is cheaper, and certainly less stressful.


I think you're mistaken Paul. When the District and Piccadilly lines
were suspended between Acton Town and Hammersmith at the weekend
recently, I specifically decided to test out what happens when one
makes use of a replacement bus for part of the journey. So...

- I started off at Ealing Broadway, and entered the station via the
gates (and hence touched-in);
- then took the District 'shuttle' that terminated at Acton Town;
- left the station via the gates (and hence touched-out);
- got on the replacement bus to Hammersmith (no need to touch-in as
there was no reader);
- entered Hammersmith station via the gates (and hence touched-in);
- took the Piccadilly line to Earl's Court;
- left the station via the gates (and hence touched-out).


I then checked what I'd been charged, and for the whole journey it was
£1 - which is the correct PAYG fare for a zones 2&3 journey. The
system had been configured specifically so as to allow for what I had
just done, so when I re-entered through the gates at Hammersmith it
just resumed my journey rather than starting a new one.

On other replacement buses perhaps you might have to touch-in, but if
so I don't think these are ever configured to actually charge you
anything - the East London Line replacement buses all charge you a 0p
fare (i.e. zero pence) when using Oyster PAYG.

Therefore I contend that the supposed Oyster "bus replacement issue" /
flaw that you speak of simply doesn't exist, as the system has been
designed to accommodate for such things.

On 25 Apr, 07:44, Graeme Wall wrote:
In message
Paul Weaver wrote:



On 5 Mar, 00:54, Mizter T wrote:
On 4 Mar, 23:25, Rupert Candy wrote:

DLR ticket machines aren't that unique - the Tramlink ones are of the
exact same design!

Indeed so, as are most of the ticket machines on the Paris Metro -
which have recently been adapted with smartcard readers for the Navigo
card. So it can be done!

And indeed it already has been done, hence this thread! The Scheidt &
Bachmann made ticket machines originally installed by Silverlink at
stations on the Watford - Euston line and some stations on the North
London Line have been so modified. The Oyster readers in fact appeared
on them ages ago, around the time of the handover to London
Overground, but as the OP reports they have only just been turned on -
which does suggest there were some glitches which meant they weren't
yet ready to be unleashed for public use (I'm guessing there were
software issues but I don't know so).

It would be really useful if the DLR machines did do Oyster - I was a
bit stumped the the other day with a friend who needed to top up their
Oyster card before catching the DLR at Shadwell - the nearest place we
could find was on Commercial Road.

It does seem a massive oversight to me, when TfL is trying so hard to
promote Oyster as a replacement for all paper-based tickets (which it
blatantly isn't, at least not yet!)

Well, of course Oyster Pay-as-you-go isn't available on most National
Rail services in London - but that's not for the want of TfL and the
Mayor's trying! It will happen in the next few years.

But the biggest flaw with oyster is the "bus replacement" issue. If I
get a tube from Epping to Oxford Circue, and there's a "replacement
bus" from Loughton to Leytonstone, I get charged for at least two tube
journeys, and maybe a bus journey too. In many cases at the weekend,a
paper ticket is cheaper, and certainly less stressful.

Whe I've used a replacement bus in London, the Oyster reader on the bus
wasn't in use. And how can a paper ticket be less stressful?

You buy the ticket in advance, and you know you have the right to
continue your journey. I was charged a fortune once, Epping to Cutty
Sark. Touch in at Epping, central line to Stratford, then what? No
barriers, cross platform interschange, should I Touch out on the
validator nearest to the tube, should I touch in on the DLR (platform
4), should I do both?

DLR then arrived at Poplar or West India Key, I forget. Should I now
touch out? Got on the replacement bus, nobody touched in. This took us
to Mudchute. Got to mudchute, should I touch in at Mudchute? Got off
at Cutty Sark, should I touch out? Are all the validators equal, or
are some "entry" and some "exit"? I managed to get three unresolved
journeys that day.

Same story on the way back.

Had I bought a paper ticket It would have been a hell of a lot less
stressful. Had I realised the DLR was out that day I wouldn't have
made the trip at all.

On 25 Apr, 11:15, Paul Weaver wrote:
On 25 Apr, 07:44, Graeme Wall wrote:



In message
Paul Weaver wrote:


But the biggest flaw with oyster is the "bus replacement" issue. If I
get a tube from Epping to Oxford Circue, and there's a "replacement
bus" from Loughton to Leytonstone, I get charged for at least two tube
journeys, and maybe a bus journey too. In many cases at the weekend,a
paper ticket is cheaper, and certainly less stressful.

Whe I've used a replacement bus in London, the Oyster reader on the bus
wasn't in use. And how can a paper ticket be less stressful?

You buy the ticket in advance, and you know you have the right to
continue your journey. I was charged a fortune once, Epping to Cutty
Sark. Touch in at Epping, central line to Stratford, then what? No
barriers, cross platform interschange, should I Touch out on the
validator nearest to the tube, should I touch in on the DLR (platform
4), should I do both?


You actually don't need to do either as you're merely continuing your
journey from Epping where you touched in, but I don't think it should
matter if you do touch-in once or even twice on the standalone readers
there. What did you actually do?


DLR then arrived at Poplar or West India Key, I forget. Should I now
touch out? Got on the replacement bus, nobody touched in. This took us
to Mudchute. Got to mudchute, should I touch in at Mudchute? Got off
at Cutty Sark, should I touch out? Are all the validators equal, or
are some "entry" and some "exit"? I managed to get three unresolved
journeys that day.


Don't touch-out before getting on the replacement bus at Poplar/West
India Quay, and don't touch in again at Mudchute (though if you had
touched-out at Poplar/West India Quay you would have ended your
journey, so you would then need to touch-in again at Mudchute to start
a new one).

All the validators on the DLR are the same - none are specifically
configured for entry or exit, they handle both.

Again, what did you actually do?

I'm also wondering how long your total journey was from Epping to
Cutty Sark - did it take longer than two hours? If so there's a
possible explanation to the multiple unresolved journey 'penalties'
that you got that day - the system would appear to be configured with
the presumption that any end-to-end journey should be completed within
two hours. If not then it concludes you have made one journey where
you failed to touch-out, and another where you failed to touch-in, and
thus charges you for two uncompleted journeys. I don't know whether
this has been tweaked yet, but it certainly should be.


Same story on the way back.

Had I bought a paper ticket It would have been a hell of a lot less
stressful. Had I realised the DLR was out that day I wouldn't have
made the trip at all.


I can understand where you're coming from now. I suspect Oyster Rail
needs some refinement if it is going to be able to cope with National
Rail in London too, especially given that the majority of stations are
ungated hence there will be a plethora of standalone Oyster readers
that must deal with both entries and exits.

By the by the DLR is going to be subject to partial closure pretty
much every weekend for a good while to come whilst work proceeds on
lengthening platforms to accommodate three car trains.

An alternative route for Epping to Greenwich is to change at Stratford
to the Jubilee to North Greenwich, then a short trip on the very
regular and reliable 188 bus to Greenwich town centre. It's not as
impressive as going through the Isle of Dogs on the DLR though!

On Fri, 25 Apr 2008 02:57:23 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:

Therefore I contend that the supposed Oyster "bus replacement issue" /
flaw that you speak of simply doesn't exist, as the system has been
designed to accommodate for such things.

I can support that with my experience on the Piccadilly line with a
replacement bus between H&I and Seven Sisters - the tube barriers were
open to exit and enter the stations and no one touched in on the
buses.

"G" wrote

I can support that with my experience on the Piccadilly line with a
replacement bus between H&I and Seven Sisters - the tube barriers were
open to exit and enter the stations and no one touched in on the
buses.

I'm not quite sure when the Piccadilly Line served Seven Sisters. Leaving
the barriers open is fine for passengers who transfer from tube to
replacement bus then back to tube, but what about passengers who end their
journey at an intermediate station served by the bus? Unless it is made
clear that they must touch out when they leave the tube (although other
passengers are encouraged not to) they will get an unresolved journey.

Peter