[crossposted to uk.railway]

On 5 Mar, 12:19, "David A Stocks" wrote:

"Paul Oter" wrote in message

As some may know, I have Cambridge - London Terminals season ticket
and commute daily to Moorgate, using LU between KX and Moorgate.

I can confirm my ticket gets rejected by the gates at Barbican and
Farringdon (on the occasions when I tried that I used my pre-pay
Oyster instead to leave the station: that was in the days when you
weren't penalised for an unresolved journey).

I would have thought you should be able to use the side gate. The fact that
a ticket is rejected by the gates doesn't mean it's not valid at that
destination - see my comment about East Croydon below.


First off it's worth noting that this issue has nothing to do with
Thameslink - this is about season tickets on the Great Northern route
into London (KX or Moorgate).

The National Fares Manual is quite clear in stating that the National
Rail season tickets in question are *not* valid for entry/exit at
intermediate stations such as Farringdon.

See page L5 of the NFM section L (PDF):
http://www.atoc.org/retail/_download...8_Common_L.pdf

"National Rail tickets which include validity ... between Finsbury
Park and London Terminals ... are also valid by LU/DLR services ...
between Kings Cross St Pancras Und and Moorgate (via Circle,
Metropolitan, Hammersmith & City and Northern Lines) but
intermediately at Old Street ONLY".


However my ticket *does* open the gates at St Pancras Low Level,
despite my ticket not being valid there. (I only ever do this on the
occasions when KX Underground is closed due to overcrowding and
passengers are asked to divert to nearby stations).

I think we need to distinguish between ticket validity and the limitations
of the magnetic stripe technology that drives the gates. For example: my
Hove - London Terminals season is valid at East Croydon but it won't open
the ticket gates there - never has done and never will. I would be
interested in informed opinion as to validity at stations north of City
Thameslink - my understanding is that my ticket is not valid, even though it
*might* operate the gates at St Pancras (because it's a London Terminal).


A ticket to London Terminals from points south thereof is *not* valid
north of City Thameslink. However, it may nonetheless operate the
gates at St Pancras Int'l, because the gates have seemingly just
copied the programming that was used at KX Thameslink and these were
reported by many to be rather lax - i.e. the gates pass tickets that
are not valid.


What I would really like is a season ticket that I can use for travel
between my choice of Moorgate, Barbican, Farringdon, Victoria and Hove or
Brighton (yes, really, I don't need the rest of the Underground most of the
time!). I met someone who had a Hove - Farringdon season which, bizarrely,
was slightly cheaper than either Brighton - Farringdon or Hove - London
Terminals. He didn't seem to have any problem using it for the occasions he
travelled Brighton - Victoria, although he had to use the side gate at the
Brighton end (still bizarre. because my Hove season is quite happy opening
the gates at Brighton.


You could have a London Terminals - Hove season, as you do at present,
plus a Farringdon - City Thameslink season, though that would *only*
allow you to travel from Farringdon on Thameslink, not on the
Underground from Moorgate or Barbican. (TBH if I was near Moorgate I
would just consider walking to London Bridge for the train, though I
suppose there's significantly less chance of a seat by then).

Regarding your fellow commuter - I wonder if the Hove - Farringdon was
cheaper on the assumption that he would travel from Brighton to
Farringdon on FCC, so FCC were responsible for pricing the ticket. I
wonder if it was marked "Route: FCC only", though of course one would
need to use Southern from Hove to Brighton (or one of the however many
- or rather the however few - FGW trains that also serve Hove and
Brighton). My thinking is merely that FCC-only fares are cheaper from
London to Brighton.

I'm far from sure that a Brighton - Farringdon season ticket is in
fact valid to Victoria - the fact it was accepted on the gateline is
certainly not proof of its validity!

On Mar 5, 1:01*pm, Mizter T wrote:
The National Fares Manual is quite clear in stating that the National
Rail season tickets in question are *not* valid for entry/exit at
intermediate stations such as Farringdon.

See page L5 of the NFM section L (PDF):http://www.atoc.org/retail/_download...8_Common_L.pdf

"National Rail tickets which include validity ... between Finsbury
Park and London Terminals ... are also valid by LU/DLR services ...
between Kings Cross St Pancras Und and Moorgate (via Circle,
Metropolitan, Hammersmith & City and Northern Lines) but
intermediately at Old Street ONLY".

An All Line Rover includes " validity ... between Finsbury Park and
London Terminals ... ", so is that also valid between King's Cross St
Pancras and Moorgate? Apparently LUL staff have been told not to
accept them.

On 5 Mar, 16:36, Yorkie wrote:

On Mar 5, 1:01 pm, Mizter T wrote:

The National Fares Manual is quite clear in stating that the National
Rail season tickets in question are *not* valid for entry/exit at
intermediate stations such as Farringdon.

See page L5 of the NFM section L (PDF):
http://www.atoc.org/retail/_download...8_Common_L.pdf

"National Rail tickets which include validity ... between Finsbury
Park and London Terminals ... are also valid by LU/DLR services ...
between Kings Cross St Pancras Und and Moorgate (via Circle,
Metropolitan, Hammersmith & City and Northern Lines) but
intermediately at Old Street ONLY".

An All Line Rover includes " validity ... between Finsbury Park and
London Terminals ... ", so is that also valid between King's Cross St
Pancras and Moorgate? Apparently LUL staff have been told not to
accept them.


I had also pondered that when I was looking at that ticket inter-
availability list quite recently in relation to another thread. I
suppose one argument would be that the conditions of the All Line
Rover ticket - i.e. that it's not valid on LU services whatsoever -
trump the above instruction (and all the other similar examples on
that list).

Not necessarily. From St Albans I can get a ticket either to
Farringdon Und, route Not Underground, or to London Thameslink. ISTR
that the latter did not work the barrier at Farrongdon but was
accepted by the barrier staff.

Out of interest, which one is cheaper?

On Mar 4, 9:36 pm, "Peter Lawrence" wrote:

Not necessarily. From St Albans I can get a ticket either to
Farringdon Und, route Not Underground, or to London Thameslink. ISTR
that the latter did not work the barrier at Farrongdon but was
accepted by the barrier staff.

Where the hell is Farrongdon? No wonder your ticket didn't work :-)

IME there were a couple of occasions when my London Thameslink ticket
failed to work the gates, but now all is hunky dory. Whenever possible
I try to get a London Thameslink ticket because of its additional
flexibility in Central London (when compared with destination-specific
tickets that have the same route validity).

Intriguingly (is that a word?) some tickets from the north to City
Thameslink southwards are still sold as route Any Permitted but at a
premium compared to route Not Underground tickets, which are now the
'standard' option and are sold for what the former were sold for (when
adjusted for inflation) until this year.

Lew 1 wrote:

Not necessarily. From St Albans I can get a ticket either to
Farringdon Und, route Not Underground, or to London Thameslink. ISTR
that the latter did not work the barrier at Farrongdon but was
accepted by the barrier staff.

Out of interest, which one is cheaper?

Provided that the London Thameslink ticket is also route Not
Underground, they are sold at the same price. The London Thameslink
ticket even allows you to go as far south as London Bridge/Elephant &
Castle.

IME there were a couple of occasions when my London Thameslink ticket
failed to work the gates, but now all is hunky dory. Whenever possible
I try to get a London Thameslink ticket because of its additional
flexibility in Central London (when compared with destination-specific
tickets that have the same route validity).

For a while, I thought that "London Thameslink" as a destination was always
rejected by the new Blackfriars gates, however since then I have found that
every ticket I try to use - be it a Travelcard or to another destination
requiring an Underground change in London - is rejected.

I am now certain that the gates there are set up to reject any ticket bought
with a Young Persons Railcard, as when I go through the manual gate, the
staff always want to see my photocard and not even on-board staff ever ask
to see that! (I keep it hidden unless requested, because I absolutely hate
the photograph on it)

Assuming I am right (and I think I am, as I have seen tickets bought at the
same machine at the same time but without the railcard discount get through
first time), is this the only gate set-up in London that requires Railcard
holders to use the manual gate?

LEWIS

Michael Hoffman wrote:
Arthur Figgis wrote:

Southern ticket offices have told me a couple of times in the past 3-4
months that Croydon/Sutton/etc to St Pancras (was KXTL) route
Thameslink tickets are no more, and a London Terminals ticket is now
valid though London by FCC.

A Southern ticket office told me that a route SOUTHERN ONLY ticket was
valid on Thameslink too. Use a heaping portion of salt.

Do they exist? I've seen route Thameslink (I guess FCC now), but not
route Southern. Something Gatwick related?

The thing that intrigued me was that this came from staff who usually
know what they are doing - the sort who happily sell tickets to London
International, or say "you don't want to do that, if you do this it will
be cheaper".

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

Arthur Figgis wrote:
Michael Hoffman wrote:
Arthur Figgis wrote:

Southern ticket offices have told me a couple of times in the past
3-4 months that Croydon/Sutton/etc to St Pancras (was KXTL) route
Thameslink tickets are no more, and a London Terminals ticket is now
valid though London by FCC.

A Southern ticket office told me that a route SOUTHERN ONLY ticket was
valid on Thameslink too. Use a heaping portion of salt.

Do they exist? I've seen route Thameslink (I guess FCC now), but not
route Southern. Something Gatwick related?

Yeah, it was from London Terminals to Gatwick Airport sold at London
Victoria.
--
Michael Hoffman

Lew 1 wrote:

For a while, I thought that "London Thameslink" as a destination was always
rejected by the new Blackfriars gates, however since then I have found that
every ticket I try to use - be it a Travelcard or to another destination
requiring an Underground change in London - is rejected.

I am now certain that the gates there are set up to reject any ticket bought
with a Young Persons Railcard, as when I go through the manual gate, the
staff always want to see my photocard and not even on-board staff ever ask
to see that! (I keep it hidden unless requested, because I absolutely hate
the photograph on it)

Assuming I am right (and I think I am, as I have seen tickets bought at the
same machine at the same time but without the railcard discount get through
first time), is this the only gate set-up in London that requires Railcard
holders to use the manual gate?

That's odd. I've used London Blackfriars semi-regularly over the last 18
months (including earlier this week) and as a Y-P ticket holder I've
never had any problems with the gates.

May I ask from where you usually buy your tickets?