march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

Manor House had the March 2008 tube map poster this morning. Not very
exciting. Notes

*sponsored very prominently by Ikea
*Heathrow Terminal 5 shown as open, no notes
*Bank-Monument still shown as interchange
*Broad Street Viaduct and New Cross Gate-Crystal Palace/West Croydon
gone
*ELP gone, replaced with the Number 381
*no indication of West Hampstead Thameslink

It seems very bad planning to have no interchange between DLR and
subsurface at Bank at pretty much the same interval that Tower Gateway
is closed.

--
Abi

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

On Mar 26, 1:02 pm, Abigail Brady wrote:
It seems very bad planning to have no interchange between DLR and
subsurface at Bank at pretty much the same interval that Tower Gateway
is closed.

Is the passageway to Monument closed for some reason?

B2003

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

On 26 Mar, 14:31, Boltar wrote:
Is the passageway to Monument closed for some reason?

Allegedly lots of passageways will be:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...ntre/7763.aspx

I've emailed the press office asking exactly which ones, as it's not
quite possible to tell from the press release.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

"Boltar" wrote in message
...
On Mar 26, 1:02 pm, Abigail Brady wrote:
It seems very bad planning to have no interchange between DLR and
subsurface at Bank at pretty much the same interval that Tower Gateway
is closed.

Is the passageway to Monument closed for some reason?


I read somewhere a few weeks ago that suggested nothing is actually closed,
its just that a couple of escalators are stopped for maintenance, and are
being used as fixed steps, which can be difficult for some people to use.
Hence the 'scare stories' are being used as a deterrent just to keep the
numbers of interchanging pax down compared to normal.

Paul S

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...

"Boltar" wrote in message
...
On Mar 26, 1:02 pm, Abigail Brady wrote:
It seems very bad planning to have no interchange between DLR and
subsurface at Bank at pretty much the same interval that Tower Gateway
is closed.

Is the passageway to Monument closed for some reason?


I read somewhere a few weeks ago that suggested nothing is actually
closed, its just that a couple of escalators are stopped for maintenance,
and are being used as fixed steps, which can be difficult for some people
to use. Hence the 'scare stories' are being used as a deterrent just to
keep the numbers of interchanging pax down compared to normal.


Which may have been true then, but obviously not from next week I see...

Paul

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

On Mar 26, 3:02 pm, Mr Thant
wrote:
On 26 Mar, 14:31, Boltar wrote:

Is the passageway to Monument closed for some reason?

Allegedly lots of passageways will be:http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...ntre/7763.aspx

I've emailed the press office asking exactly which ones, as it's not
quite possible to tell from the press release.

U

I've seen large posters which plainly say there will be no interchange
at all at Bank/Monument except for DLR/Northern.

Still, we won't find out for real until Monday.

--
Abi

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

On Mar 26, 3:18 pm, Abigail Brady wrote:
On Mar 26, 3:02 pm, Mr Thant
wrote:

On 26 Mar, 14:31, Boltar wrote:

Is the passageway to Monument closed for some reason?

Allegedly lots of passageways will be:http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...ntre/7763.aspx

I've emailed the press office asking exactly which ones, as it's not
quite possible to tell from the press release.

U

I've seen large posters which plainly say there will be no interchange
at all at Bank/Monument except for DLR/Northern.

Unless the central line is non stopping at bank how will they stop
people interchanging central - DLR / northern? There are 3
passageways (2 deep level and 1 near the surface) linking the central
to the northern/DLR. Surely they can't close them all and even if they
did you'd only have to walk 30 metres at street level to get to
another entrance for the central line booking office.

B2003

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

On Mar 26, 3:28 pm, Boltar wrote:
Unless the central line is non stopping at bank how will they stop
people interchanging central - DLR / northern? There are 3
passageways (2 deep level and 1 near the surface) linking the central
to the northern/DLR. Surely they can't close them all and even if they
did you'd only have to walk 30 metres at street level to get to
another entrance for the central line booking office.

Even as I speak, TfL marksmen are training at Gravesend, ready to take
down uncooperative commuters.

--
Abi

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

On 26 Mar, 15:10, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"Paul Scott" wrote in message

...







"Boltar" wrote in message
...
On Mar 26, 1:02 pm, Abigail Brady wrote:
It seems very bad planning to have no interchange between DLR and
subsurface at Bank at pretty much the same interval that Tower Gateway
is closed.

Is the passageway to Monument closed for some reason?

I read somewhere a few weeks ago that suggested nothing is actually
closed, its just that a couple of escalators are stopped for maintenance,
and are being used as fixed steps, which can be difficult for some people
to use. Hence the 'scare stories' are being used as a deterrent just to
keep the numbers of interchanging pax down compared to normal.

Which may have been true then, but obviously not from next week I see...

As ever, they give only directions rather than information. I still
can't work out whether they are encouraging people to avoid the
station because it's going to be difficult, or whether a number of
escalator-free passageways will actually be blocked.

Also, as has been hinted at, if you can't interchange between the
Central and the Northern, how can you enter or exit the Northern?
Will they close both the surface passageway between Lombard Street and
the main ticket office and the deep one via the spiral staircases?

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

On 26 Mar, 16:48, MIG wrote:

On 26 Mar, 15:10, "Paul Scott" wrote:

"Paul Scott" wrote:

"Boltar" wrote:

Is the passageway to Monument closed for some reason?

I read somewhere a few weeks ago that suggested nothing is actually
closed, its just that a couple of escalators are stopped for maintenance,
and are being used as fixed steps, which can be difficult for some people
to use. Hence the 'scare stories' are being used as a deterrent just to
keep the numbers of interchanging pax down compared to normal.

Which may have been true then, but obviously not from next week I see...

As ever, they give only directions rather than information. I still
can't work out whether they are encouraging people to avoid the
station because it's going to be difficult, or whether a number of
escalator-free passageways will actually be blocked.

Also, as has been hinted at, if you can't interchange between the
Central and the Northern, how can you enter or exit the Northern?
Will they close both the surface passageway between Lombard Street and
the main ticket office and the deep one via the spiral staircases?


I admire your sentiments, but I'm not convinced it'd really be wise to
follow your course of action. If LU in fact said that it is in fact a
sly back route between Bank and Monument then perhaps loads of
passengers would attempt to use it, leading to the possibility of
massive congestion and overcrowding on a route that simply didn't have
the capacity for all these people.

Perhaps this is just a case of wily passengers working out where the
holes in the system are so they can take advantage of them, whilst the
less inquisitive majority follow the official advice and thus don't
block up the whole station.

If all the shortcuts at stations around the Underground network were
made explicit then overall we'd be worse off. An element of herding is
necessary when dealing with the shear number of people that use the
Tube.

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

On Mar 26, 7:26*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 26 Mar, 16:48, MIG wrote:





On 26 Mar, 15:10, "Paul Scott" wrote:

"Paul Scott" wrote:

"Boltar" wrote:

Is the passageway to Monument closed for some reason?

I read somewhere a few weeks ago that suggested nothing is actually
closed, its just that a couple of escalators are stopped for maintenance,
and are being used as fixed steps, which can be difficult for some people
to use. Hence the 'scare stories' are being used as a deterrent just to
keep the numbers of interchanging pax down compared to normal.

Which may have been true then, but obviously not from next week I see....

As ever, they give only directions rather than information. *I still
can't work out whether they are encouraging people to avoid the
station because it's going to be difficult, or whether a number of
escalator-free passageways will actually be blocked.

Also, as has been hinted at, if you can't interchange between the
Central and the Northern, how can you enter or exit the Northern?
Will they close both the surface passageway between Lombard Street and
the main ticket office and the deep one via the spiral staircases?

I admire your sentiments, but I'm not convinced it'd really be wise to
follow your course of action. If LU in fact said that it is in fact a
sly back route between Bank and Monument then perhaps loads of
passengers would attempt to use it, leading to the possibility of
massive congestion and overcrowding on a route that simply didn't have
the capacity for all these people.

I don't think I actually proposed a course of action, just observing
that the report about the Bank being separate from Monument, and at
the same time it being impossible to change from the Central/Waterloo
to the Northern, doesn't seem to make sense unless there is no way out
of the Northern Line.

And it's contradicted elsewhere in the report where people are simply
urged by Peter Tollington to avoid Bank.

The alternative routes are completely bizarre, like how to get to the
"West End" if you are on the Central ... Um, stay on the Central and
never consider changing to the Northern at Bank? And to get to the
Northern Line ... change at Euston etc. Er, no, Euston and the rest
are where I might be trying to get to by changing to the Northern.


Perhaps this is just a case of wily passengers working out where the
holes in the system are so they can take advantage of them, whilst the
less inquisitive majority follow the official advice and thus don't
block up the whole station.

If all the shortcuts at stations around the Underground network were
made explicit then overall we'd be worse off. An element of herding is
necessary when dealing with the shear number of people that use the
Tube.

But at the same time there are far too many situations where transport
providers try to second guess everything people may be doing in order
to give directions, when giving full information about the situation
would allow people to make sensible plans and clog up the system far
less than giving really bad directions of the kind I've mentioned
above.

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

Mr Thant wrote:
On 26 Mar, 14:31, Boltar wrote:
Is the passageway to Monument closed for some reason?

Allegedly lots of passageways will be:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...ntre/7763.aspx

I've emailed the press office asking exactly which ones, as it's not
quite possible to tell from the press release.

True. The press release says "While escalators are being replaced at
Monument station, between the Monument and the Docklands Light Railway
platforms, the main route for changing between District and Circle lines and
the Docklands Light Railway will close."

That seems to imply that the escalators between the western end of the
District Line platforms and the Northern Line will still be open, in which
case why not say that District-Northern interchange is still possible? Or
are they actually closing both the Monument-DLR and Monument-Northern
escalators at the same time?
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

On Mar 26, 7:26 pm, Mizter T wrote:
If all the shortcuts at stations around the Underground network were
made explicit then overall we'd be worse off. An element of herding is
necessary when dealing with the shear number of people that use the
Tube.

True , but some of the directions they give are just plain stupid or
bloody minded. Bank is actually a good example. If you come off from
the northern and want to go to the central the signs take you on a
direct route. If you come off the DLR , even though its escalators
take you to within spitting distance of the northern line , the
official route to the central takes you an an around the houses
adventure up and down a load of stairs and seems about 50% longer. Not
funny if you're elderly or a mum with a pushchair or similar.

B2003

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

In article ,
Mizter T wrote:

If all the shortcuts at stations around the Underground network were
made explicit then overall we'd be worse off. An element of herding is
necessary when dealing with the shear number of people that use the
Tube.

Fair point. This brings to mind the two different ways of getting to
the Circle Line platforms from Kings Cross concourse - the "official"
route, and the one you take if you know what you're doing, through the
deep-level barriers and along the Khyber Pass.

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

On 26 Mar, 13:02, Abigail Brady wrote:
*Heathrow Terminal 5 shown as open, no notes

Though it does still have a red dagger next to it.

*ELP gone, replaced with the Number 381

"Local bus service" has been added to the line key for it, which isn't
in the pocket map.

They also haven't put the plane symbol back on Liverpool Street. I
noticed today that the onboard Overground diagrams have "Trains to
Luton" at West Hampstead, but nothing about Gatwick (alright, no
direct trains), and nothing at Kensington Olympia, Clapham Junction or
Stratford.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

On Mar 27, 9:15*am, Boltar wrote:
On Mar 26, 7:26 pm, Mizter T wrote:

If all the shortcuts at stations around the Underground network were
made explicit then overall we'd be worse off. An element of herding is
necessary when dealing with the shear number of people that use the
Tube.

True , but some of the directions they give are just plain stupid or
bloody minded. Bank is actually a good example. If you come off from
the northern and want to go to the central the signs take you on a
direct route. If you come off the DLR , even though its escalators
take you to within spitting distance of the northern line , the
official route to the central takes you an an around the houses
adventure up and down a load of stairs and seems about 50% longer. Not
funny if you're elderly or a mum with a pushchair or similar.

At most stations I follow the directions, even if they take me by a
slightly longer route, so as to avoid causing a conflict.

But I don't follow the directions at Bank where, as you say, some of
the routes are ridiculous. Normally (not at the moment due to
escalators) the directions from the Central to the DLR, two levels
below, make you start by walking upstairs.

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

On 27 Mar, 17:25, MIG wrote:
But I don't follow the directions at Bank where, as you say, some of
the routes are ridiculous. *Normally (not at the moment due to
escalators) the directions from the Central to the DLR, two levels
below, make you start by walking upstairs.

Ah, but that route involves more escalator, so I think there's less
walking overall. In the DLR to Central direction it'd be better to go
this way rather than via the spiral staircases.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

In article ,
(Sarah Brown) wrote:

In article
,
Mizter T wrote:

If all the shortcuts at stations around the Underground network were
made explicit then overall we'd be worse off. An element of herding is
necessary when dealing with the shear number of people that use the
Tube.

Fair point. This brings to mind the two different ways of getting to
the Circle Line platforms from Kings Cross concourse - the "official"
route, and the one you take if you know what you're doing, through the
deep-level barriers and along the Khyber Pass.

Does that route still exist?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

On 28 Mar, 13:38, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article ,
Fair point. This brings to mind the two different ways of getting to
the Circle Line platforms from Kings Cross concourse - the "official"
route, and the one you take if you know what you're doing, through the
deep-level barriers and along the Khyber Pass.

Does that route still exist?

Yes. It's signposted as an interchange route between the tube and
Circle. The official route from the Circle to King's Cross is to head
west to the middle of the platforms and the western ticket hall
(outside St Pancras), then back east through the tube ticket hall. Not
a route anyone would choose to do.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

Mr Thant wrote:
On 28 Mar, 13:38, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article ,
Fair point. This brings to mind the two different ways of getting to
the Circle Line platforms from Kings Cross concourse - the
"official" route, and the one you take if you know what you're
doing, through the deep-level barriers and along the Khyber Pass.

Does that route still exist?

Yes. It's signposted as an interchange route between the tube and
Circle. The official route from the Circle to King's Cross is to head
west to the middle of the platforms and the western ticket hall
(outside St Pancras), then back east through the tube ticket hall. Not
a route anyone would choose to do.

The official route is the easiest route to take if (a) you alight from the
western end of the Circle/H&C/Met train that you arrive on, or (b) you want
to minimise or eliminate steps (there are lifts from platform to barrier and
from barrier to street at the Western Ticket Hall).
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

In message .uk, at
13:38:00 on Fri, 28 Mar 2008, Colin Rosenstiel
remarked:
This brings to mind the two different ways of getting to
the Circle Line platforms from Kings Cross concourse - the "official"
route, and the one you take if you know what you're doing, through the
deep-level barriers and along the Khyber Pass.

Does that route still exist?

Yes, and I often use it the reverse way. From St Pancras I go down to
the Circle line platforms via the new western ticket hall entrance, then
across to the top of the deep tube line escalators via the Khyber Pass.
This avoids the passageway under Pancras Rd, and the KX ticket hall,
both of which are very congested.
--
Roland Perry

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

On Mar 28, 1:38 pm, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article ,

(Sarah Brown) wrote:
In article
,
Mizter T wrote:

If all the shortcuts at stations around the Underground network were
made explicit then overall we'd be worse off. An element of herding is
necessary when dealing with the shear number of people that use the
Tube.

Fair point. This brings to mind the two different ways of getting to
the Circle Line platforms from Kings Cross concourse - the "official"
route, and the one you take if you know what you're doing, through the
deep-level barriers and along the Khyber Pass.

Does that route still exist?

Yes, I use it every weekday evening to get from the Circle/H+C/
Metropolitan line to King's Cross mainline station. Not sure whether
it's really faster, but it feels like it.

PaulO

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

"Sarah Brown" wrote in message
...
In article
,
Mizter T wrote:

If all the shortcuts at stations around the Underground network were
made explicit then overall we'd be worse off. An element of herding is
necessary when dealing with the shear number of people that use the
Tube.

Fair point. This brings to mind the two different ways of getting to
the Circle Line platforms from Kings Cross concourse - the "official"
route, and the one you take if you know what you're doing, through the
deep-level barriers and along the Khyber Pass.

Where does the Khyber Pass refer to?

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message .uk,
at 13:38:00 on Fri, 28 Mar 2008, Colin Rosenstiel
remarked:
This brings to mind the two different ways of getting to
the Circle Line platforms from Kings Cross concourse - the
"official"
route, and the one you take if you know what you're doing, through
the deep-level barriers and along the Khyber Pass.

Does that route still exist?

Yes, and I often use it the reverse way. From St Pancras I go down
to the Circle line platforms via the new western ticket hall
entrance, then across to the top of the deep tube line escalators
via the Khyber Pass. This avoids the passageway under Pancras Rd,
and the KX ticket hall, both of which are very congested.

As I remember it the Khyber Pass led straight to the Eastern end of the
Met/Circle platforms. It doesn't any more, does it?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message .uk,
at 13:38:00 on Fri, 28 Mar 2008, Colin Rosenstiel
remarked:
This brings to mind the two different ways of getting to
the Circle Line platforms from Kings Cross concourse - the
"official" route, and the one you take if you know what you're
doing, through the deep-level barriers and along the Khyber Pass.

Does that route still exist?

Yes, and I often use it the reverse way. From St Pancras I go down
to the Circle line platforms via the new western ticket hall
entrance, then across to the top of the deep tube line escalators
via the Khyber Pass. This avoids the passageway under Pancras Rd,
and the KX ticket hall, both of which are very congested.

As I remember it the Khyber Pass led straight to the Eastern end of
the Met/Circle platforms. It doesn't any more, does it?

There are two routes available since the Phase 1 ticket hall rebuild and the
new Western Ticket Hall. There is a route for LU interchange passengers on
the 'paid side' of the tube and Circle barriers. There is a separate but
parallel underpass for pax wishing to get into the ticket halls from South
of the Euston Rd. Which of these is now the Kybher pass?

The previously nicknamed 'Kybher pass' was outside both station's barriers,
and LU interchange passengers were mixed with people using the Euston Rd
underpass to simply cross the road and reach Kings Cross Stn.

Paul S

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

In message .uk, at
00:23:00 on Sat, 29 Mar 2008, Colin Rosenstiel
remarked:
As I remember it the Khyber Pass led straight to the Eastern end of the
Met/Circle platforms. It doesn't any more, does it?

It leads to the top of some wide stairs down to the platforms, exactly
as before. The only difference is that because it's now all 'inside' the
barriered area, there are no barriers between the bottom of those stairs
and the actual Met/Circle platforms.
--
Roland Perry

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

In message , at
23:43:46 on Fri, 28 Mar 2008, remarked:
Fair point. This brings to mind the two different ways of getting to
the Circle Line platforms from Kings Cross concourse - the "official"
route, and the one you take if you know what you're doing, through the
deep-level barriers and along the Khyber Pass.

Where does the Khyber Pass refer to?

The passageway between the top of the deep tube escalators, and the top
of the original stairs down to the Met/Circle platforms.
--
Roland Perry

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

In article ,
Paul Scott wrote:
Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

As I remember it the Khyber Pass led straight to the Eastern end of
the Met/Circle platforms. It doesn't any more, does it?

There are two routes available since the Phase 1 ticket hall rebuild and the
new Western Ticket Hall. There is a route for LU interchange passengers on
the 'paid side' of the tube and Circle barriers. There is a separate but
parallel underpass for pax wishing to get into the ticket halls from South
of the Euston Rd. Which of these is now the Kybher pass?

It's the one it always was - the subway that leads to the top of the
stairs at the eastern end of the circle line platforms (and which is
now signposted as the interchange route). Those stairs no-longer have
the (widely ignored) green arrows and red crosses there, and the whole
lot is now inside the fare-paid zone. The Kybher Pass occupies the
exact same space in 3D that it always did though.

There used to be an exit to street level at the circle-line end of
it. This is now a fire escape, I believe.

The previously nicknamed 'Kybher pass' was outside both station's barriers,
and LU interchange passengers were mixed with people using the Euston Rd
underpass to simply cross the road and reach Kings Cross Stn.

Yup, that's the one. You just can't use it to cross the road any more.

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

In message , at 08:25:49 on
Sat, 29 Mar 2008, Paul Scott remarked:
There are two routes available since the Phase 1 ticket hall rebuild and the
new Western Ticket Hall. There is a route for LU interchange passengers on
the 'paid side' of the tube and Circle barriers. There is a separate but
parallel underpass for pax wishing to get into the ticket halls from South
of the Euston Rd. Which of these is now the Kybher pass?

The previously nicknamed 'Kybher pass' was outside both station's barriers,
and LU interchange passengers were mixed with people using the Euston Rd
underpass to simply cross the road and reach Kings Cross Stn.

The Khyber Pass is the same physical stretch of tunnel/underpass as
before. All that's happened is that logistically it's moved inside the
barriers.
--
Roland Perry

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

On 26 Mar, 20:26, Mizter T wrote:
On 26 Mar, 16:48, MIG wrote:





On 26 Mar, 15:10, "Paul Scott" wrote:

"Paul Scott" wrote:

"Boltar" wrote:

Is the passageway to Monument closed for some reason?

I read somewhere a few weeks ago that suggested nothing is actually
closed, its just that a couple of escalators are stopped for maintenance,
and are being used as fixed steps, which can be difficult for some people
to use. Hence the 'scare stories' are being used as a deterrent just to
keep the numbers of interchanging pax down compared to normal.

Which may have been true then, but obviously not from next week I see....

As ever, they give only directions rather than information. *I still
can't work out whether they are encouraging people to avoid the
station because it's going to be difficult, or whether a number of
escalator-free passageways will actually be blocked.

Also, as has been hinted at, if you can't interchange between the
Central and the Northern, how can you enter or exit the Northern?
Will they close both the surface passageway between Lombard Street and
the main ticket office and the deep one via the spiral staircases?

I admire your sentiments, but I'm not convinced it'd really be wise to
follow your course of action. If LU in fact said that it is in fact a
sly back route between Bank and Monument then perhaps loads of
passengers would attempt to use it, leading to the possibility of
massive congestion and overcrowding on a route that simply didn't have
the capacity for all these people.

Perhaps this is just a case of wily passengers working out where the
holes in the system are so they can take advantage of them, whilst the
less inquisitive majority follow the official advice and thus don't
block up the whole station.

If all the shortcuts at stations around the Underground network were
made explicit then overall we'd be worse off. An element of herding is
necessary when dealing with the shear number of people that use the
Tube.


I had a partial look during daytime today (it could be different at
different times) while coming out of the DLR.

The escalators at the north end of the DLR are both going upwards (not
sure how you'd get into the DLR, maybe via Lombard Street ticket hall
and Northern Line).

That gets you to the area just up form the north end of the Northern
Line. The next escalators upwards from there are working, but routes
to the Central are closed off, both the lower passageway to the spiral
staircases and, if you go up the escalators, the staircase back down
that comes out further west along the Central platforms, so at the top
of those escalators, you are diverted to the escalators to the Lombard
Street ticket hall, at which you can exit, go through the sub-surface
subway, and go back into the Central via the main ticket hall.
(Presumably treated as a continuation for PAYG.)

There seems to have been a very determined decision to block the non-
escalator parts of routes to/from the Central Line at the side of the
station complex where no renewal work now seems to be going on. The
work is presumably at the Monument end.

I honestly can't work out the reasoning behind this, other than a
strategy of making Bank so horrible to use that people will stay away
and make it safer. But then, the whole of LU could be made totally
safe by closing it down permanently.

There are always reasonable-sounding arguments on the grounds of
safety, but something is not quite right about the way that LU's
standard response to a lot of people trying to use its services is to
close them down. One gets the feeling that LU management would close
football stadiums on Saturdays and supermarkets in the runup to
Christmas.

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

On 2 Apr, 13:52, MIG wrote:
On 26 Mar, 20:26, Mizter T wrote:



On 26 Mar, 16:48, MIG wrote:

On 26 Mar, 15:10, "Paul Scott" wrote:

"Paul Scott" wrote:

"Boltar" wrote:

Is the passageway to Monument closed for some reason?

I read somewhere a few weeks ago that suggested nothing is actually
closed, its just that a couple of escalators are stopped for maintenance,
and are being used as fixed steps, which can be difficult for some people
to use. Hence the 'scare stories' are being used as a deterrent just to
keep the numbers of interchanging pax down compared to normal.

Which may have been true then, but obviously not from next week I see...

As ever, they give only directions rather than information. I still
can't work out whether they are encouraging people to avoid the
station because it's going to be difficult, or whether a number of
escalator-free passageways will actually be blocked.

Also, as has been hinted at, if you can't interchange between the
Central and the Northern, how can you enter or exit the Northern?
Will they close both the surface passageway between Lombard Street and
the main ticket office and the deep one via the spiral staircases?

I admire your sentiments, but I'm not convinced it'd really be wise to
follow your course of action. If LU in fact said that it is in fact a
sly back route between Bank and Monument then perhaps loads of
passengers would attempt to use it, leading to the possibility of
massive congestion and overcrowding on a route that simply didn't have
the capacity for all these people.

Perhaps this is just a case of wily passengers working out where the
holes in the system are so they can take advantage of them, whilst the
less inquisitive majority follow the official advice and thus don't
block up the whole station.

If all the shortcuts at stations around the Underground network were
made explicit then overall we'd be worse off. An element of herding is
necessary when dealing with the shear number of people that use the
Tube.

I had a partial look during daytime today (it could be different at
different times) while coming out of the DLR.

The escalators at the north end of the DLR are both going upwards (not
sure how you'd get into the DLR, maybe via Lombard Street ticket hall
and Northern Line).

That gets you to the area just up form the north end of the Northern
Line. The next escalators upwards from there are working, but routes
to the Central are closed off, both the lower passageway to the spiral
staircases and, if you go up the escalators, the staircase back down
that comes out further west along the Central platforms, so at the top
of those escalators, you are diverted to the escalators to the Lombard
Street ticket hall, at which you can exit, go through the sub-surface
subway, and go back into the Central via the main ticket hall.
(Presumably treated as a continuation for PAYG.)

There seems to have been a very determined decision to block the non-
escalator parts of routes to/from the Central Line at the side of the
station complex where no renewal work now seems to be going on. The
work is presumably at the Monument end.

I used Monument last night to get to the Northern Line. The escalators
between Monument and Northern Line are operating normally. However the
escalators from Monument to the DLR (which forms the main route to the
other lines at Bank) were completely closed and fenced off.

PaulO

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

On 2 Apr, 14:11, Paul Oter wrote:
On 2 Apr, 13:52, MIG wrote:





On 26 Mar, 20:26, Mizter T wrote:

On 26 Mar, 16:48, MIG wrote:

On 26 Mar, 15:10, "Paul Scott" wrote:

"Paul Scott" wrote:

"Boltar" wrote:

Is the passageway to Monument closed for some reason?

I read somewhere a few weeks ago that suggested nothing is actually
closed, its just that a couple of escalators are stopped for maintenance,
and are being used as fixed steps, which can be difficult for some people
to use. Hence the 'scare stories' are being used as a deterrent just to
keep the numbers of interchanging pax down compared to normal.

Which may have been true then, but obviously not from next week I see...

As ever, they give only directions rather than information. *I still
can't work out whether they are encouraging people to avoid the
station because it's going to be difficult, or whether a number of
escalator-free passageways will actually be blocked.

Also, as has been hinted at, if you can't interchange between the
Central and the Northern, how can you enter or exit the Northern?
Will they close both the surface passageway between Lombard Street and
the main ticket office and the deep one via the spiral staircases?

I admire your sentiments, but I'm not convinced it'd really be wise to
follow your course of action. If LU in fact said that it is in fact a
sly back route between Bank and Monument then perhaps loads of
passengers would attempt to use it, leading to the possibility of
massive congestion and overcrowding on a route that simply didn't have
the capacity for all these people.

Perhaps this is just a case of wily passengers working out where the
holes in the system are so they can take advantage of them, whilst the
less inquisitive majority follow the official advice and thus don't
block up the whole station.

If all the shortcuts at stations around the Underground network were
made explicit then overall we'd be worse off. An element of herding is
necessary when dealing with the shear number of people that use the
Tube.

I had a partial look during daytime today (it could be different at
different times) while coming out of the DLR.

The escalators at the north end of the DLR are both going upwards (not
sure how you'd get into the DLR, maybe via Lombard Street ticket hall
and Northern Line).

That gets you to the area just up form the north end of the Northern
Line. *The next escalators upwards from there are working, but routes
to the Central are closed off, both the lower passageway to the spiral
staircases and, if you go up the escalators, the staircase back down
that comes out further west along the Central platforms, so at the top
of those escalators, you are diverted to the escalators to the Lombard
Street ticket hall, at which you can exit, go through the sub-surface
subway, and go back into the Central via the main ticket hall.
(Presumably treated as a continuation for PAYG.)

There seems to have been a very determined decision to block the non-
escalator parts of routes to/from the Central Line at the side of the
station complex where no renewal work now seems to be going on. The
work is presumably at the Monument end.

I used Monument last night to get to the Northern Line. The escalators
between Monument and Northern Line are operating normally. However the
escalators from Monument to the DLR (which forms the main route to the
other lines at Bank) were completely closed and fenced off.

So it sounds as if the whole of what used to be the route from the
Central to both the Northern and Monument is still intact and usable,
and in addition to that there is a parallel route from the Central to
the Northern, built for the DLR.

All that seems to be missing is the route from the DLR to Monument
(which I know is the main directed route to use from the Central to
Monument nowadays, but didn't used to be).

The logic seems to be "blocked routes in a station cause congestion
and put safety at risk, therefore if there is one blocked route, we
should block additional routes so that the congestion will get even
worse and discourage people from using the station, making it safer".

Trying to put my finger on the flaw ...

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

On 2 Apr, 14:53, MIG wrote:
So it sounds as if the whole of what used to be the route from the
Central to both the Northern and Monument is still intact and usable,
and in addition to that there is a parallel route from the Central to
the Northern, built for the DLR.

No, the only place you can go from the north end of the Northern/DLR
is the Lombard Street ticket hall, either by lift or escalator.

(plug: a diagram of what's open is on my blog)

All that seems to be missing is the route from the DLR to Monument

Up the stairs to the Northern, then there's a direct route to
Monument.

The logic seems to be "blocked routes in a station cause congestion
and put safety at risk, therefore if there is one blocked route, we
should block additional routes so that the congestion will get even
worse and discourage people from using the station, making it safer".

Absolutely.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

On Apr 2, 10:02*pm, Mr Thant
wrote:
On 2 Apr, 14:53, MIG wrote:

So it sounds as if the whole of what used to be the route from the
Central to both the Northern and Monument is still intact and usable,
and in addition to that there is a parallel route from the Central to
the Northern, built for the DLR.

No, the only place you can go from the north end of the Northern/DLR
is the Lombard Street ticket hall, either by lift or escalator.

Sorry, I meant that the spiral and passageway route is intact and
usable if only the gates hadn't been shut. It isn't having escalator
work done, same as the route to the Central from the top of the
escalator.

There only seems to be one route being worked on (DLR to Monument),
while the other blockages are of otherwise usable routes. I wonder
how much greater problems, congestion and inconvenience are being
caused by the decision to close so many passageways that are perfectly
usable than would be by caused by one lot of escalator work.

If they really don't want people nipping along the Northern platforms
to get to Monument (which everyone did for decades before), why not
just close both routes to Monument. I really can't see any reason to
stop people changing from the Central to the Northern and DLR.


(plug: a diagram of what's open is on my blog)

All that seems to be missing is the route from the DLR to Monument

Up the stairs to the Northern, then there's a direct route to
Monument.

The logic seems to be "blocked routes in a station cause congestion
and put safety at risk, therefore if there is one blocked route, we
should block additional routes so that the congestion will get even
worse and discourage people from using the station, making it safer".

Absolutely.

U

--http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

In article
,
(Mr Thant) wrote:

*Subject:* march 2008 tube map poster spotted
*From:* Mr Thant
*Date:* Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:02:13 -0700 (PDT)

On 2 Apr, 14:53, MIG wrote:
So it sounds as if the whole of what used to be the route from the
Central to both the Northern and Monument is still intact and
usable,
and in addition to that there is a parallel route from the
Central to
the Northern, built for the DLR.

No, the only place you can go from the north end of the Northern/DLR
is the Lombard Street ticket hall, either by lift or escalator.

(plug: a diagram of what's open is on my blog)

"seven banks of escalators (15 individual escalators) sever the station"

Like it!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

march 2008 tube: Shepherd's Bush & Wood Lane
 

At 06:02:21 on Wed, 26 Mar 2008 Abigail Brady opined:-

Manor House had the March 2008 tube map poster this morning. Not very
exciting. Notes

*sponsored very prominently by Ikea
*Heathrow Terminal 5 shown as open, no notes
*Bank-Monument still shown as interchange
*Broad Street Viaduct and New Cross Gate-Crystal Palace/West Croydon
gone
*ELP gone, replaced with the Number 381
*no indication of West Hampstead Thameslink

Picked up the pocket version yesterday. I note that it says that
Shepherd's Bush WLL station will open "late 2008". Let's hope that's
right.

Wood Lane H&C is also shown as opening late 2008.
--
Thoss

march 2008 tube map poster spotted
 

In article , Sarah Brown
writes
Which of these is now the Kybher pass?

It's the one it always was - the subway that leads to the top of the
stairs at the eastern end of the circle line platforms (and which is
now signposted as the interchange route). Those stairs no-longer have
the (widely ignored) green arrows and red crosses there, and the whole
lot is now inside the fare-paid zone. The Kybher Pass occupies the
exact same space in 3D that it always did though.

Not quite.

Old layout (west at the top):

E -----------
E SSS / TTTT \
| SSS / TTTTTT \KK
+-------+====TTTTTT
|MM TTTTTT
E VV PP
E VV PP
VV PP

E = steps up to Euston Road
S = steps down to Circle Line (with green arrows and red crosses)
M = memorial plaque
T = tube ticket hall
V = Victoria Line escalator
P = Piccadilly Line escalator
K = to King's Cross main line station

The "Kybher Pass" was the short passageway I've shown as ====. I can
remember it having exit-only gates in it.

With the rebuild, the section of passage indicated as / has gone away
and the Kybher Pass and stairs S have moved into the fare-paid area.
There are fire doors where the plaque was, and the western stairs up to
Euston Road have been moved further west so as to connect with a new
cross-passage in the "free" zone.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
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