|
Crossing London tube tracks
It is very easy to find oneself on a tube platform with a group of
potential assailants positioned between oneself and the exit. In such situations the only means of escape, should the group turn hostile, would be across the tracks to the neighbouring platform. What is the recommended method of crossing tracks in these situations? There seem to be a variable number of rails making up the tracks, usually about 5. Which of these are 'live'? Will stepping on a live rail result in immediate death? What is the safe distance from a live rail? Is it safe to tread on a live rail with only one foot with the other in the air, in order to avoid earthing the current? |
Crossing London tube tracks
|
Crossing London tube tracks
|
Crossing London tube tracks
On 27 Mar, 18:09, Graeme Wall wrote:
What is the recommended method of crossing tracks in these situations? Don't. So, your recommendation would be to remain on the platform and be assaulted? I'm sure the death-rate for crossing tracks is not negligible, but surely it is not as high as the death-rate from being stabbed in the chest? There seem to be a variable number of rails making up the tracks, usually about 5. *Which of these are 'live'? There are 4 rails, all carry electrical currents at different potentials. So just avoid all of them then? Thanks for the info. Could be especially useful if the assailants attempt to give chase and are unaware of what will happen to them if they tread on the rails. What is the safe distance from a live rail? * The platform. I live near a tube track and have, over the years, seen thousands of workmen cross the tracks (as well as a few drunk teenagers). They all survived, so your statement that it is impossible to get near a track safely is untrue. |
Crossing London tube tracks
|
Crossing London tube tracks
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:50:23 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be
this:- Nice try. I have removed one group. It is very easy to find oneself on a tube platform with a group of potential assailants positioned between oneself and the exit. Anyone could be a potential assailant. There are many situations where one could be a long way from an exit with people ("potential assailants") between one and the exit, so the fact that the tube has been picked on is interesting. In such situations the only means of escape, should the group turn hostile, would be across the tracks to the neighbouring platform. Tube stations seldom have adjacent platforms which one could cross the line to. That is because tube stations are in tube tunnels. Even if there was an adjacent platform one would have to cross the suicide pit to reach it. You are perhaps trolling about the "surface" lines, which are not on the surface but are just under the surface and are built like above ground railways. Higher platforms, generally adjacent platforms and no suicide pits. I will assume that this is what you are trolling about. What is the recommended method of crossing tracks in these situations? It is recommended not to cross the line. Not all advice is good, but this is. There seem to be a variable number of rails making up the tracks, usually about 5. Usually four, though five may exist in a few places for a short distance to provide an overlap when the outside rail crosses from one side to the other. Which of these are 'live'? All of them. The voltage in each of them varies however. There are clues to which are at the highest voltage with respect to the ground should one look with open eyes. Will stepping on a live rail result in immediate death? Immediate death would be a blessing. However, the power supplies involved in such rails tend not to cause immediate death, but instead generally cause a slow roasting. I doubt very much that it is a pleasant way to die. Only in films do people die in a shower of sparks when they make contact with such rails. What is the safe distance from a live rail? There are clues for those who observe with open eyes. Is it safe to tread on a live rail with only one foot with the other in the air, in order to avoid earthing the current? People may observe that the top of rails, where one would normally tread, tends to be shiny and thus slippery. As a result anyone treading on one is likely to slip off it and they may then damage themselves in a number of ways. Railway lines are places for people who have enough skill to minimise the dangers they face. These dangers can never be reduced to zero. Electricity is just one of these dangers, at least as dangerous are the big things which run on wheels along the lines. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
Crossing London tube tracks
|
Crossing London tube tracks
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:53:37 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be
wrote this:- There are 4 rails, all carry electrical currents at different potentials. So just avoid all of them then? That is good advice. The best way of doing this is to remain on the platform. I live near a tube track and have, over the years, seen thousands of workmen cross the tracks (as well as a few drunk teenagers). They all survived, Not all of them do. Go to news.bbc.co.uk and type "girl electrocuted" and "boy electrocuted" into the search box you will read of many of those who did not. You will have to look harder to find stories about staff who have been killed, but it does happen. so your statement that it is impossible to get near a track safely Not a statement he made. What is untrue is your distortion of what he did say. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
Crossing London tube tracks
It's definitely not advisable to try and cross the tracks at all. Bear in mind that all tube stations are extensively covered by CCTV these days and the chances of any assailants even making it out of the station without being arrested are small. If you really do find yourself in the highly unlikely situation of being menaced by a clockwork orange gang and you dont have a sock full of billiard balls handy, the running rails typically have no current going through them. The rail in the middle and the outside 4th rail are the ones to watch out for. they have -210 volts and +420 volts running through them respectively. In the old days they did use the running rails as earth/return current rails but as far as I know they dont these days due to problems with arcing and current spilling off into tunnel linings and gas and water mains. Very, very foolish to even think about running across the tracks though. You'd probably be in as much trouble as if you were the assailant maybe even more so. G wrote in message ... It is very easy to find oneself on a tube platform with a group of potential assailants positioned between oneself and the exit. In such situations the only means of escape, should the group turn hostile, would be across the tracks to the neighbouring platform. What is the recommended method of crossing tracks in these situations? There seem to be a variable number of rails making up the tracks, usually about 5. Which of these are 'live'? Will stepping on a live rail result in immediate death? What is the safe distance from a live rail? Is it safe to tread on a live rail with only one foot with the other in the air, in order to avoid earthing the current? |
Crossing London tube tracks
|
Crossing London tube tracks
On Mar 28, 11:17 am, Chris Tolley wrote:
wrote: It is very easy to find oneself on a tube platform with a group of potential assailants positioned between oneself and the exit. Quite. It must be tiresome being such a tit. |
Crossing London tube tracks
On Mar 27, 7:06*pm, Jane Sullivan
wrote: As I understand it you cannot cross the rails to another platform on the tube except where the stations are in the open air. On the sub-surface lines (i.e. not the tube), you can, though. Even that is not true. There are many open sections where that are ''line clear'' (which means in simple terms are treated the same as tunnels) i.e. the Jubilee all the between Stratford and Canning Town portal is one. -- Nick |
Crossing London tube tracks
On 28 Mar, 21:29, D7666 wrote:
There are many open sections where that are ''line clear'' (which means in simple terms are treated the same as tunnels) i.e. the Jubilee all the between Stratford and Canning Town portal is one. I think we can all wholeheartedly recommend jumping between the platforms on that stretch (well, except the third one at Stratford). U -- http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/ A blog about transport projects in London |
Crossing London tube tracks
wrote:
It is very easy to find oneself on a tube platform with a group of potential assailants positioned between oneself and the exit. In such situations the only means of escape, should the group turn hostile, would be across the tracks to the neighbouring platform. What is the recommended method of crossing tracks in these situations? There seem to be a variable number of rails making up the tracks, usually about 5. Which of these are 'live'? Will stepping on a live rail result in immediate death? What is the safe distance from a live rail? Is it safe to tread on a live rail with only one foot with the other in the air, in order to avoid earthing the current? Trial & error, its the only way to know for sure. I suggest you give it a go, trying each rail in turn. Remember to wear the proper safety gear e.g. heavy cotton or woolen clothing soaked in Water (or lighter fluid), and heavy wet woolen socks with no boots or shoes. If you don't detect a tingling sensation then you might want to lie on the track and wait for the next train to come along, the driver will see you laying there and he'll stop, you can then knock on the cab door and ask him. Please feel free to report your findings back to the group. (PS - Some or all of the above statements may well be false) -- Cheerz - Brownz '89 K100RS '53 JCW MCS (Cage) http://www.brownz.org/ |
Crossing London tube tracks
In message , "Brownz
(Mobile)" writes wrote: It is very easy to find oneself on a tube platform with a group of potential assailants positioned between oneself and the exit. In such situations the only means of escape, should the group turn hostile, would be across the tracks to the neighbouring platform. What is the recommended method of crossing tracks in these situations? There seem to be a variable number of rails making up the tracks, usually about 5. Which of these are 'live'? Will stepping on a live rail result in immediate death? What is the safe distance from a live rail? Is it safe to tread on a live rail with only one foot with the other in the air, in order to avoid earthing the current? Trial & error, its the only way to know for sure. I suggest you give it a go, trying each rail in turn. Remember to wear the proper safety gear e.g. heavy cotton or woolen clothing soaked in Water (or lighter fluid), and heavy wet woolen socks with no boots or shoes. If you don't detect a tingling sensation then you might want to lie on the track and wait for the next train to come along, the driver will see you laying there and he'll stop, you can then knock on the cab door and ask him. Please feel free to report your findings back to the group. (PS - Some or all of the above statements may well be false) (Laughing very loudly.) I recommend the use of army ammunition boots, with metal plates fore and aft. This gives the wearer a skating chance of making a meteoric impression. -- Huss Why so large a cost, having so short a lease, does thou upon your fading mansion spend? William Shakespeare |
Crossing London tube tracks
In article , Gavin Christie
writes the running rails typically have no current going through them. False, though it will be a relatively low current and voltage. The rail in the middle and the outside 4th rail are the ones to watch out for. they have -210 volts and +420 volts running through them respectively. Approximately. They can be up to +750V in some places. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work: Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
Crossing London tube tracks
It is highly unlikely that 750V can deliver instant death. I guess
you'd need at least 50kV for that under normal conditions. There are, however, people who have survived much higher voltages, but many have taken lasting damage in the process. There are also people who have been killed by 50V. It all depends on the duration of your exposure, the impedance of the return path and the part(s) of your body the current flows through. 5 milliamps is sufficient to permanently stop your heartbeat. So you could theoretically kill somebody with a watch battery. You'd have to dig the electrodes into the heart tissue first though, so that sort of thing is unlikely to happen by accident. On the other hand, there are people whose hands or legs have been roast to cinders, but who survived because the current didn't get anywhere near any vital organs. The safest advice is, never mess with electricity. |
Crossing London tube tracks
On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 14:51:05 +0100 someone who may be "Clive D. W.
Feather" wrote this:- The rail in the middle and the outside 4th rail are the ones to watch out for. they have -210 volts and +420 volts running through them respectively. Approximately. They can be up to +750V in some places. And that is only the nominal voltage. The actual voltage may be higher under some conditions. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
Crossing London tube tracks
There are, however, people who have survived much higher voltages, but many have taken lasting damage in the process. Even the Americans can't electocute instantly, with 100% certainty, people who have been sentanced to death by electric chair. That can be a slow, painful death, requiring several attempts, before the subject dies. -- Cheers Roger T. Home of the Great Eastern Railway at:- http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra/ Latitude: 48° 25' North Longitude: 123° 21' West |
Crossing London tube tracks
Roger T. ("Roger T." ) gurgled happily,
sounding much like they were saying: There are, however, people who have survived much higher voltages, but many have taken lasting damage in the process. Even the Americans can't electocute instantly, with 100% certainty, people who have been sentanced to death by electric chair. That can be a slow, painful death, requiring several attempts, before the subject dies. Yebbut they only use 110v. |
Crossing London tube tracks
On Apr 2, 4:46*pm, Adrian wrote:
Roger T. ("Roger T." ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: There are, however, people who have survived much higher voltages, but many have taken lasting damage in the process. Even the Americans can't electocute instantly, with 100% certainty, people who have been sentanced to death by electric chair. That can be a slow, painful death, requiring several attempts, before the subject dies. Yebbut they only use 110v. For safety, presumably? |
Crossing London tube tracks
Even the Americans can't electocute instantly, with 100% certainty, people who have been sentanced to death by electric chair. Yebbut they only use 110v. Don't they have 220V outlets for washing machines and electric chairs? Driers are 240VAC, four pin outlets. Washing machine 110-120VAC 'U' ground as are most every other outlets in modern homes. Older homes, those built say mid to post 1950s, may still have 2 pin, no ground outlets. Yes, the U.S.A. electrical code is not the world's safest. Things that do down there are not permitted in Canada, which also uses 120VAC. -- Cheers Roger T. Home of the Great Eastern Railway at:- http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra/ Latitude: 48° 25' North Longitude: 123° 21' West |
Crossing London tube tracks
Roger T. wrote:
Yes, the U.S.A. electrical code is not the world's safest. Some of the stuff on electrical-contractor.net is *frightening* Owain |
Crossing London tube tracks
On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 18:54:15 +0100, Owain
wrote: Adrian wrote: Even the Americans can't electocute instantly, with 100% certainty, people who have been sentanced to death by electric chair. Yebbut they only use 110v. Up to around 3000v DC off a local generator IIRC (thus the dimming of the prison lights as seen in many films is a load of old cobblers). There was a DC v AC competition involving the public killing of an elephant in the early days of deciding the "best" way to fry people; prior to that Thomas Edison "perfected" his AC system by killing numerous cats and dogs in experiments :- http://www.ccadp.org/electricchair.htm Don't they have 220V outlets for washing machines Two opposite phases on a 110-0-110 (180deg) supply IIRC except for one state (Vermont?) which has (or had ?) "real" 240v in some or all of it. and electric chairs? |
Crossing London tube tracks
On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 18:54:15 +0100, Owain wrote:
Adrian wrote: Even the Americans can't electocute instantly, with 100% certainty, people who have been sentanced to death by electric chair. Yebbut they only use 110v. Don't they have 220V outlets for washing machines and electric chairs? 120V/60Hz here for mains, 240V/60Hz for the bigger stuff (washing machine, dryer, fridge and cooker in our case). Can't comment on the electric chair :-) cheers Jules |
Crossing London tube tracks
Charles Ellson wrote:
Up to around 3000v DC off a local generator IIRC (thus the dimming of the prison lights as seen in many films is a load of old cobblers). There was a DC v AC competition involving the public killing of an elephant in the early days of deciding the "best" way to fry people; prior to that Thomas Edison "perfected" his AC system by killing numerous cats and dogs in experiments Was it not Edison who was so convinced that DC was the only way to proceed and tried his best to show that Tesla and his AC system was a mistake? Bruce |
Crossing London tube tracks
On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 23:32:40 +0100, "Bruce Fletcher (Stronsay,
Orkney)" wrote: Charles Ellson wrote: Up to around 3000v DC off a local generator IIRC (thus the dimming of the prison lights as seen in many films is a load of old cobblers). There was a DC v AC competition involving the public killing of an elephant in the early days of deciding the "best" way to fry people; prior to that Thomas Edison "perfected" his AC system by killing numerous cats and dogs in experiments Was it not Edison who was so convinced that DC was the only way to proceed and tried his best to show that Tesla and his AC system was a mistake? Yes, that was the reason the elephant had to die, although it looks like as you say that it was DC that Edison espoused but AC that the unfortunate "Topsy" was cooked with to prove that she would have been safer (but equally dead) with a unidirectional jolt :- http://www.boingboing.net/2008/01/03...ctrocuted.html Although apparently "she had to die" anyway (Topsy 3 Keepers 0) :- http://www.roadsideamerica.com/pet/topsy.html but carrots laced with cyanide merely made a tasty treat and there wasn't a big enough gallows. Surprisingly, no-one seems to have considered having her shot. |
Crossing London tube tracks
Up to around 3000v DC off a local generator IIRC (thus the dimming of
the prison lights as seen in many films is a load of old cobblers). There was a DC v AC competition involving the public killing of an elephant in the early days of deciding the "best" way to fry people; prior to that Thomas Edison "perfected" his AC system by killing numerous cats and dogs in experiments :- http://www.ccadp.org/electricchair.htm The local SPCA used to electrocute animals. Then they went to gassing, now it's the needle. -- Cheers Roger T. Home of the Great Eastern Railway at:- http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra/ Latitude: 48° 25' North Longitude: 123° 21' West |
Crossing London tube tracks
On 3 Apr, 06:02, "Roger T." wrote:
Up to around 3000v DC off a local generator IIRC (thus the dimming of the prison lights as seen in many films is a load of old cobblers). There was a DC v AC competition involving the public killing of an elephant in the early days of deciding the "best" way to fry people; prior to that Thomas Edison "perfected" his AC system by killing numerous cats and dogs in experiments :- http://www.ccadp.org/electricchair.htm The local SPCA used to electrocute animals. *Then they went to gassing, now it's the needle. -- Cheers Roger T. Home of the Great Eastern Railway at:-http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra/ Latitude: *48° 25' North Longitude: *123° 21' West When we lived next to a 750v 3rd rail line, in the days when you could have an allotment on the bank, our cat used to wander on to the tracks quite regularly until one day, we assume, his tail swished against the rail. When we finally caught up with him, there was a horrible smell of singed fur and a bald patch on his tail. He kept away from the rails after that. I always understood that AC killed by high voltages but threw you off so you might survive, but DC killed with low voltages because you just stuck there! MaxB |
Crossing London tube tracks
From: "MaxB" Subject: Crossing London tube tracks Date: 03 April 2008 08:52 On 3 Apr, 06:02, "Roger T." wrote: Up to around 3000v DC off a local generator IIRC (thus the dimming of the prison lights as seen in many films is a load of old cobblers). There was a DC v AC competition involving the public killing of an elephant in the early days of deciding the "best" way to fry people; prior to that Thomas Edison "perfected" his AC system by killing numerous cats and dogs in experiments :- http://www.ccadp.org/electricchair.htm The local SPCA used to electrocute animals. Then they went to gassing, now it's the needle. -- Cheers Roger T. Home of the Great Eastern Railway at:-http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra/ Latitude: 48° 25' North Longitude: 123° 21' West When we lived next to a 750v 3rd rail line, in the days when you could have an allotment on the bank, our cat used to wander on to the tracks quite regularly until one day, we assume, his tail swished against the rail. When we finally caught up with him, there was a horrible smell of singed fur and a bald patch on his tail. He kept away from the rails after that. I always understood that AC killed by high voltages but threw you off so you might survive, but DC killed with low voltages because you just stuck there! MaxB Reminds me of a time, hundreds of years ago, when I was about 10, and my dad was repairing the electric iron. He had it in bits, looking for why it didn't get hot any more. After he had put it back together he plugged it in and while he was putting his tools away, asked me to touch it. Being extremely naive I assumed that he wanted to know if it was getting hot or not. So I touched it. "No. it' still cold", I said. "Oh, but you have sports shoes on, take one off", he said. I really couldn't imagine how this was going to affect my appreciation of how hot or cold the iron was, but I took a shoe off and felt the iron again. "Zappaaloo !!!" I wasn't thrown across the room, I simply couldn't let go! Dad pulled the plug out of the socket, and more in frustration than sorrow, complained that obviously the iron still wasn't fixed. All this is true, whatever that means. |
Crossing London tube tracks
On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 07:42:49 +0000, Bill Again wrote
Reminds me of a time, hundreds of years ago, when I was about 10, and my dad was repairing the electric iron. He had it in bits, looking for why it didn't get hot any more. After he had put it back together he plugged it in and while he was putting his tools away, asked me to touch it. Being extremely naive I assumed that he wanted to know if it was getting hot or not. So I touched it. "No. it' still cold", I said. "Oh, but you have sports shoes on, take one off", he said. I really couldn't imagine how this was going to affect my appreciation of how hot or cold the iron was, but I took a shoe off and felt the iron again. "Zappaaloo !!!" I wasn't thrown across the room, I simply couldn't let go! Dad pulled the plug out of the socket, and more in frustration than sorrow, complained that obviously the iron still wasn't fixed. All this is true, whatever that means. I guess it means that you quickly gained a *real* appreciation of what electricity can do - and you've remembered it all these years! |
Crossing London tube tracks
Roger T. wrote:
Even the Americans can't electocute instantly, with 100% certainty, people who have been sentanced to death by electric chair. That can be a slow, painful death, requiring several attempts, before the subject dies. I thought you couldn't be charged twice for the one crime? |
Crossing London tube tracks
"John Rowland" wrote in message ... Roger T. wrote: Even the Americans can't electocute instantly, with 100% certainty, people who have been sentanced to death by electric chair. That can be a slow, painful death, requiring several attempts, before the subject dies. I thought you couldn't be charged twice for the one crime? There are now circumstances under which you can be tried again, following an acquittal, if new evidence is discovered which could not have been available at the original trial. Peter |
Crossing London tube tracks
On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 14:19:26 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote: Roger T. wrote: Even the Americans can't electocute instantly, with 100% certainty, people who have been sentanced to death by electric chair. That can be a slow, painful death, requiring several attempts, before the subject dies. I thought you couldn't be charged twice for the one crime? *groan* |
Crossing London tube tracks
"James Farrar" wrote in message ... On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 14:19:26 +0100, "John Rowland" wrote: Roger T. wrote: Even the Americans can't electocute instantly, with 100% certainty, people who have been sentanced to death by electric chair. That can be a slow, painful death, requiring several attempts, before the subject dies. I thought you couldn't be charged twice for the one crime? *groan* 'Shocking' Someone had to say it..... Brian |
Crossing London tube tracks
On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 16:44:27 +0000, BH Williams wrote
I thought you couldn't be charged twice for the one crime? *groan* 'Shocking' Someone had to say it..... I know someone who got arrested for being in possession of a stolen battery and some fireworks... They charged him then let him off :-) |
Crossing London tube tracks
On Wed, 2 Apr 2008 23:52:23 -0700 (PDT), MaxB
wrote: On 3 Apr, 06:02, "Roger T." wrote: Up to around 3000v DC off a local generator IIRC (thus the dimming of the prison lights as seen in many films is a load of old cobblers). There was a DC v AC competition involving the public killing of an elephant in the early days of deciding the "best" way to fry people; prior to that Thomas Edison "perfected" his AC system by killing numerous cats and dogs in experiments :- http://www.ccadp.org/electricchair.htm The local SPCA used to electrocute animals. *Then they went to gassing, now it's the needle. When we lived next to a 750v 3rd rail line, in the days when you could have an allotment on the bank, our cat used to wander on to the tracks quite regularly until one day, we assume, his tail swished against the rail. When we finally caught up with him, there was a horrible smell of singed fur and a bald patch on his tail. He kept away from the rails after that. I always understood that AC killed by high voltages but threw you off so you might survive, but DC killed with low voltages because you just stuck there! There's a lot of pub science involved. Whether you get thrown away or hang on more likely depends on which muscles are affected and/or whether being thrown away is actually the result of a reflex reaction to a shock that might not actually be life-threatening. Either are equally harmful from the POV of burns (which can be internal and follow bones) caused by the passage of enough current through the body distinct from any effect upon the heart's rhythm. |
Crossing London tube tracks
On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 20:31:30 +0100, Charles Ellson wrote:
Whether you get thrown away or hang on more likely depends on which muscles are affected Aye all muscles work in pairs and one is normally stronger than the other. Think of the bicep to bend your arm at the elbow and triceps to straighten it. If the current is stimulating the stronger muscle you end up being "locked on". and/or whether being thrown away is actually the result of a reflex reaction to a shock that might not actually be life-threatening. Being thrown across the room is again a function of massively stimulating the muscles, you involuntarily throw yourself across the room. -- Cheers Dave. |
Crossing London tube tracks
me wrote:
Hence the advise.... Test if a wire is live by touching it to the BACK of the hand. The muscle action is then to throw your hand away Better still, test with a meter! |
| All times are GMT. The time now is 04:01 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2006 LondonBanter.co.uk