Surely
if continental types can learn to push a button, then so can
Londoners.

My experience of using the overgound (North London Line) with buttons to
push suggests a significant proportion of travellers on trains around
here have "special needs" in the learning to push buttons curriculum.

--
Robin

Central line 92 stock has door-close buttons, although in common with
other lines as described by others, they haven't been operational for
a number of years.

On Fri, 4 Apr 2008, Tristan Miller wrote:

In article , James Farrar
wrote:

On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 21:15:19 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On Thu, 3 Apr 2008, Tristan Miller wrote:

What is the purpose of the "open" buttons on the doors of the London
Underground carriages? On every Underground train I've used, the doors
open automatically at every station. Is/was there a time or place
where they don't open automatically and the buttons must be used?

I have heard two possible explanations: one (as you stated) being that
passengers were confused; the other being that there were fears of
passengers using close-door buttons to close the doors on other
passengers.

Neither of these explanations seems particularly satisfying. I've used
plenty of public transport systems in Europe where it was necessary to
push a button (or even pull a handle!) to open the carriage door. Surely
if continental types can learn to push a button, then so can Londoners.

Do you have to use the open button at all stations, or are there some
stations where the driver opens all the doors automatically?

If not, then these systems are using the same principle as NR trains here,
which Londoners do seem to manage to use without too much difficulty.

If they do, then it does seem that continentals are cleverer than
Londoners. This is where the problem arose here - in some stations, the
driver would open the doors, so there was no point pushing the buttons. In
some, he wouldn't, so passengers would have to push the button. This is
where confusion sets in, because if the door in front of you isn't open,
you can never be sure if it's the driver being tardy opening it, in which
case you should wait, or a station where he's not going to, in which case
you should push the button. This is where the little light on the button
comes in - it means "you need to push me to open the door", but this was
perhaps not clear enough for the tired commuting brain to reliably handle.

tom

--
BUTTS LOL

On Apr 5, 12:20*pm, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Fri, 4 Apr 2008, Tristan Miller wrote:
In article , James Farrar
wrote:

On Thu, 3 Apr 2008 21:15:19 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On Thu, 3 Apr 2008, Tristan Miller wrote:

What is the purpose of the "open" buttons on the doors of the London
Underground carriages? *On every Underground train I've used, the doors
open automatically at every station. *Is/was there a time or place
where they don't open automatically and the buttons must be used?

I have heard two possible explanations: one (as you stated) being that
passengers were confused; the other being that there were fears of
passengers using close-door buttons to close the doors on other
passengers.

Neither of these explanations seems particularly satisfying. *I've used
plenty of public transport systems in Europe where it was necessary to
push a button (or even pull a handle!) to open the carriage door. *Surely
if continental types can learn to push a button, then so can Londoners.

Do you have to use the open button at all stations, or are there some
stations where the driver opens all the doors automatically?

If not, then these systems are using the same principle as NR trains here,
which Londoners do seem to manage to use without too much difficulty.

If they do, then it does seem that continentals are cleverer than
Londoners. This is where the problem arose here - in some stations, the
driver would open the doors, so there was no point pushing the buttons. In
some, he wouldn't, so passengers would have to push the button. This is
where confusion sets in, because if the door in front of you isn't open,
you can never be sure if it's the driver being tardy opening it, in which
case you should wait, or a station where he's not going to, in which case
you should push the button. This is where the little light on the button
comes in - it means "you need to push me to open the door", but this was
perhaps not clear enough for the tired commuting brain to reliably handle.

The ceasing of using open buttons on LU seemed to coincide with the
installation of platform-edge doors on the Jubilee extension.
Certainly on the rest of the Jubilee, rapidly followed by the rest.

On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 02:18:37 +0100, John Rowland wrote:

The air-conditioned S stock will have doors that
automatically close if the train stands in a station too long, to keep
the cold air in, and it'll have working door open buttons to get them
open again.

Maybe they should have revolving doors on the trains.

I was once on a crush loaded tube train which pulled into a busy station,
but no-one wanted to board at our particular door, so the outside button was
not pushed. The people inside all had our backs crushed against the curved
door, and when we realised that the door wasn't opening, no-one could work
out where the door button was. Extra door buttons on the ceiling would solve
the problem, or sensors which automatically open [unlocked] doors if the
carriage is crowded.

Or just having the driver open all the doors at busy stations/times.
(This would save time anyway as it would avoid the delay between the
driver releasing the doors and a passenger pressing the button.)

In article ,
lid (asdf) wrote:

Or just having the driver open all the doors at busy stations/times.
(This would save time anyway as it would avoid the delay between the
driver releasing the doors and a passenger pressing the button.)

This makes me ask why some NR stock, e.g. Class 365 networkers, will open
the doors immediately after the driver door release if someone is
pressing the button while newer stock, e.g. Turbostars, Electrostars and
Desiros, not only seem to take longer for the drivers to operate the door
releases in the first place but also will not open the door if the button
is pressed; you have to release it and press again after the door release.
The differences in station dwell times on GN and SWT are horrendous.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
.co.uk...
In article ,
lid (asdf) wrote:

Or just having the driver open all the doors at busy stations/times.
(This would save time anyway as it would avoid the delay between the
driver releasing the doors and a passenger pressing the button.)

This makes me ask why some NR stock, e.g. Class 365 networkers, will open
the doors immediately after the driver door release if someone is
pressing the button while newer stock, e.g. Turbostars, Electrostars and
Desiros, not only seem to take longer for the drivers to operate the door
releases in the first place but also will not open the door if the button
is pressed; you have to release it and press again after the door release.
The differences in station dwell times on GN and SWT are horrendous.

SWT Desiro doors are released by the guard, but only after he has released
his own door and looked down the platform... Not exactly the fastest
operating routine I should think...

Paul S

On Apr 5, 3:05*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message

.co.uk...

In article ,
(asdf) wrote:

Or just having the driver open all the doors at busy stations/times.
(This would save time anyway as it would avoid the delay between the
driver releasing the doors and a passenger pressing the button.)

This makes me ask why some NR stock, e.g. Class 365 networkers, will open
the doors immediately after the driver door release if someone is
pressing the button while newer stock, e.g. Turbostars, Electrostars and
Desiros, not only seem to take longer for the drivers to operate the door
releases in the first place but also will not open the door if the button
is pressed; you have to release it and press again after the door release.
The differences in station dwell times on GN and SWT are horrendous.

SWT Desiro doors are released by the guard, but only after he has released
his own door and looked down the platform... *Not exactly the fastest
operating routine I should think...

I'm also fairly sure that plug doors on Networkers are actually faster-
moving than the sliding doors on 376s. The Desiro doors are so slow
that they alone must add to the dwell time.

On Thu, Apr 03, 2008 at 09:43:34PM +0100, James Farrar wrote:

the other being that there were fears of
passengers using close-door buttons to close the doors on other
passengers.

Right, cos drivers never do that.

--
David Cantrell | Hero of the Information Age

fdisk format reinstall, doo-dah, doo-dah;
fdisk format reinstall, it's the Windows way

On 7 Apr, 12:08, David Cantrell wrote:
On Thu, Apr 03, 2008 at 09:43:34PM +0100, James Farrar wrote:
* * * * * * * * * * * *the other being that there were fears of
passengers using close-door buttons to close the doors on other
passengers.

Right, cos drivers never do that.


Drivers certainly do, but in those days there weren't bleepers when
passengers closed the doors, so the risks were a bit higher.

(I accidentally leant on a button in a crowded 465 and closed the door
bleeplessly on someone. For what very limited use they have, it would
be better if they weren't there.)