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If Boris does win as now expected
In message , Paul Scott
writes ...what might be the effect on TfL's ability to press on with all the major projects, given that Ken seems so much of a motivator? The Tories always seemed to view building roads as an investment, but putting in public transport as a subsidy. Lets see first of all how long it takes him to do anything about Bendy buses. I'm sure it won't be long before it's impossible to find anyone willing to admit voting for him :-) -- Edward Cowling If it screams it's not food yet !! |
If Boris does win as now expected
On 3 May, 23:43, MIG wrote:
They should have a council where representatives of several constituencies could actually vote on stuff, avoiding whimsical (and expensive) swings of policy. They could call it, I dunno, the GLC? Except that the GLC seemed to waste most of its time and money on crackpot right-on causes that benefitted a tiny number of people and the majority could go hang. Its very easy for a committee to be anonymous and unaccountable and do what they please , less so if its one person. B2003 |
If Boris does win as now expected
If you're referring to me then probably not a lot in the short term. Who knows what 18 months will bring. Well, for what its worth - I hope it won't change for the worse! |
If Boris does win as now expected
On May 4, 9:32*pm, Boltar wrote:
On 3 May, 23:43, MIG wrote: They should have a council where representatives of several constituencies could actually vote on stuff, avoiding whimsical (and expensive) swings of policy. *They could call it, I dunno, the GLC? Except that the GLC seemed to waste most of its time and money on crackpot right-on causes that benefitted a tiny number of people and the majority could go hang. Its very easy for a committee to be anonymous and unaccountable and do what they please , less so if its one person. Tiny grants to mythical black lesbians of less than the Mayor's lunch expenses may make headlines for the Mail and the Standard, but they don't really compare with how much of our money goes at ludicrous rates of interest to even smaller numbers of directors and shareholders of private companies under PPP and the like, out of the budget that should have been used to maintain and run services. |
If Boris does win as now expected
On 4 May, 22:02, MIG wrote:
rates of interest to even smaller numbers of directors and shareholders of private companies under PPP and the like, out of the budget that should have been used to maintain and run services. Well I won't argue that the PPP is a complete waste of money, but that was the Treasury's idea - a bunch of anonymous accountants with a patsy known as the Chancellor to take the flak. B2003 |
If Boris does win as now expected
On Sun, 4 May 2008 14:02:46 -0700 (PDT), MIG
wrote: On May 4, 9:32*pm, Boltar wrote: On 3 May, 23:43, MIG wrote: They should have a council where representatives of several constituencies could actually vote on stuff, avoiding whimsical (and expensive) swings of policy. *They could call it, I dunno, the GLC? Except that the GLC seemed to waste most of its time and money on crackpot right-on causes that benefitted a tiny number of people and the majority could go hang. Its very easy for a committee to be anonymous and unaccountable and do what they please , less so if its one person. Tiny grants to mythical black lesbians of less than the Mayor's lunch expenses may make headlines for the Mail and the Standard, but they don't really compare with how much of our money goes at ludicrous rates of interest to even smaller numbers of directors and shareholders of private companies under PPP and the like, out of the budget that should have been used to maintain and run services. The (LU) PPP having been, to his great credit, fought against by Ken (having been imposed by the man who is now Our Glorious Leader). There are many black marks against Ken from his 8 years as Mayor, but the LU PPP is not one of them. |
If Boris does win as now expected
On May 5, 1:06*am, James Farrar wrote:
On Sun, 4 May 2008 14:02:46 -0700 (PDT), MIG wrote: On May 4, 9:32*pm, Boltar wrote: On 3 May, 23:43, MIG wrote: They should have a council where representatives of several constituencies could actually vote on stuff, avoiding whimsical (and expensive) swings of policy. *They could call it, I dunno, the GLC? Except that the GLC seemed to waste most of its time and money on crackpot right-on causes that benefitted a tiny number of people and the majority could go hang. Its very easy for a committee to be anonymous and unaccountable and do what they please , less so if its one person. Tiny grants to mythical black lesbians of less than the Mayor's lunch expenses may make headlines for the Mail and the Standard, but they don't really compare with how much of our money goes at ludicrous rates of interest to even smaller numbers of directors and shareholders of private companies under PPP and the like, out of the budget that should have been used to maintain and run services. The (LU) PPP having been, to his great credit, fought against by Ken (having been imposed by the man who is now Our Glorious Leader). There are many black marks against Ken from his 8 years as Mayor, but the LU PPP is not one of them.- I didn't mean to imply that it was. Just putting scales of "crackpot" money-wastage and small numbers of beneficiaries in perspective. |
Pay parity for bus drivers? was If Boris does win as now expected
On Sat, 3 May 2008, Paul Corfield wrote:
It's when we get bus and tube strikes (both quite likely given the 3 year pay deal for LU has just ended and Unite are demanding pay parity for bus drivers) that the fun will begin. What? Pay parity with tube drivers? Seriously? How about starting with professionalism parity? Bus drivers are currently a bunch of dangerous, incompetent, passenger-hating maniacs. Well, not all of them, obviously, but there's a huge gap in professionalism between bus and tube drivers. tom -- Life finds a way. -- Ian Malcolm |
Pay parity for bus drivers? was If Boris does win as now expected
On Mon, 5 May 2008 14:02:00 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote: On Sat, 3 May 2008, Paul Corfield wrote: It's when we get bus and tube strikes (both quite likely given the 3 year pay deal for LU has just ended and Unite are demanding pay parity for bus drivers) that the fun will begin. What? Pay parity with tube drivers? Seriously? How about starting with professionalism parity? Bus drivers are currently a bunch of dangerous, incompetent, passenger-hating maniacs. Well, not all of them, obviously, but there's a huge gap in professionalism between bus and tube drivers. I think parity with tube drivers is a long term aim. Their aim in this pay round is equal pay and conditions across all companies running TfL tendered services. Can't see that happening somehow. I don't think I share your slightly extreme view of bus drivers' qualities. There's the odd bad one but most do a good job in what can be very trying circumstances. The City wouldn't function without its buses and it's quite a few years since we have lots of buses on strike - the last one I remember coincided with tube strikes and getting anywhere was nigh on impossible. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Pay parity for bus drivers? was If Boris does win as nowexpected
On Mon, 5 May 2008, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Mon, 5 May 2008 14:02:00 +0100, Tom Anderson wrote: On Sat, 3 May 2008, Paul Corfield wrote: It's when we get bus and tube strikes (both quite likely given the 3 year pay deal for LU has just ended and Unite are demanding pay parity for bus drivers) that the fun will begin. What? Pay parity with tube drivers? Seriously? How about starting with professionalism parity? Bus drivers are currently a bunch of dangerous, incompetent, passenger-hating maniacs. Well, not all of them, obviously, but there's a huge gap in professionalism between bus and tube drivers. I think parity with tube drivers is a long term aim. Wow. Their aim in this pay round is equal pay and conditions across all companies running TfL tendered services. Can't see that happening somehow. That's a shame - that seems like a fair and reasonable thing to want. I don't think I share your slightly extreme view of bus drivers' qualities. There's the odd bad one but most do a good job in what can be very trying circumstances. Most do an adequate job. The City wouldn't function without its buses and it's quite a few years since we have lots of buses on strike - the last one I remember coincided with tube strikes and getting anywhere was nigh on impossible. Absolutely true. I'm not (for once!) having a go at buses, i'm just saying that their drivers are a lot less professional than i believe those of the tube trains to be. tom -- Life finds a way. -- Ian Malcolm |
Pay parity for bus drivers? was If Boris does win as now expected
On Mon, 5 May 2008 19:59:24 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote this gibberish: On Mon, 5 May 2008, Paul Corfield wrote: On Mon, 5 May 2008 14:02:00 +0100, Tom Anderson wrote: On Sat, 3 May 2008, Paul Corfield wrote: It's when we get bus and tube strikes (both quite likely given the 3 year pay deal for LU has just ended and Unite are demanding pay parity for bus drivers) that the fun will begin. What? Pay parity with tube drivers? Seriously? How about starting with professionalism parity? Bus drivers are currently a bunch of dangerous, incompetent, passenger-hating maniacs. Well, not all of them, obviously, but there's a huge gap in professionalism between bus and tube drivers. I think parity with tube drivers is a long term aim. Wow. Their aim in this pay round is equal pay and conditions across all companies running TfL tendered services. Can't see that happening somehow. That's a shame - that seems like a fair and reasonable thing to want. I don't think I share your slightly extreme view of bus drivers' qualities. There's the odd bad one but most do a good job in what can be very trying circumstances. Most do an adequate job. The City wouldn't function without its buses and it's quite a few years since we have lots of buses on strike - the last one I remember coincided with tube strikes and getting anywhere was nigh on impossible. Absolutely true. I'm not (for once!) having a go at buses, i'm just saying that their drivers are a lot less professional than i believe those of the tube trains to be. tom Purely from personal experience and what I've seen (only been in London a couple of years), the jobs of tube and bus drivers are rather different, the tube drivers very rarely have to deal with passengers and I've never seen one taking any 'aggro'. Wheras bus drivers generally deal with each and every passenger (mostly very briefly but it puts them in the fireing line) and are the first to get an earful (and I have seen this many times) if anything goes wrong on-route. -- Mark Varley www.MarkVarleyPhoto.co.uk www.TwistedPhotography.co.uk London, England. |
If Boris does win as now expected
In article ,
MIG wrote: Tiny grants to mythical black lesbians of less than the Mayor's lunch expenses may make headlines for the Mail and the Standard, but they don't really compare with how much of our money goes at ludicrous rates of interest to even smaller numbers of directors and shareholders of private companies under PPP and the like, out of the budget that should have been used to maintain and run services. I appreciate and agree with your sentiment, but would add that plenty of these minority groups are far from mythical. I'm a member of one such myself, and yes, we have received some small grants from the GLA. They're tiny amonunts of money in the grand scheme of things, but can literally make the difference between life and death for some very vulnerable people who find themselves in a really **** situation through no fault of their own. |
If Boris does win as now expected
On May 5, 11:31*pm, Sarah Brown
wrote: In article , MIG wrote: Tiny grants to mythical black lesbians of less than the Mayor's lunch expenses may make headlines for the Mail and the Standard, but they don't really compare with how much of our money goes at ludicrous rates of interest to even smaller numbers of directors and shareholders of private companies under PPP and the like, out of the budget that should have been used to maintain and run services. I appreciate and agree with your sentiment, but would add that plenty of these minority groups are far from mythical. I'm a member of one such myself, and yes, we have received some small grants from the GLA. They're tiny amonunts of money in the grand scheme of things, but can literally make the difference between life and death for some very vulnerable people who find themselves in a really **** situation through no fault of their own. You misunderstand (or I was unclear) about where I felt that the myth was. My point was that that the kind of money that would allow a community group (typically stereotyped as "black lesbians"*, regardless of what they actually do, hence the myth) to book rooms for a year, and therefore continue to exist, is tiny compared with the amount that any politician claims on expenses in the same period. But the former is presented as throwing money away, while the latter is presented as normal running costs. And both are miniscule compared with the amount of public money given away to private companies in interest on PPP deals. The people benefiting from that really are a minority, and getting very rich. *I heard exactly that phrase from an intelligent person only recently and had to make the same argument. |
Pay parity for bus drivers? was If Boris does win as now expected
In message , at 17:48:55 on
Mon, 5 May 2008, Paul Corfield remarked: What? Pay parity with tube drivers? Seriously? How about starting with professionalism parity? Bus drivers are currently a bunch of dangerous, incompetent, passenger-hating maniacs. Well, not all of them, obviously, but there's a huge gap in professionalism between bus and tube drivers. I think parity with tube drivers is a long term aim. Their aim in this pay round is equal pay and conditions across all companies running TfL tendered services. Can't see that happening somehow. Why can't all drivers be on the same pay scale? You'd just have different *grades* of driver, including the most junior which was "have licence to drive bus, but not trains". -- Roland Perry |
Pay parity for bus drivers? was If Boris does win as nowexpected
On May 6, 9:09 am, Roland Perry wrote:
Why can't all drivers be on the same pay scale? You'd just have different *grades* of driver, including the most junior which was "have licence to drive bus, but not trains". I suspect the only thing bus driving and train driving have in common is that the vehicles both have wheels and they jobs are both called "driving". I don't really think you can compare the two anymore than you could compare flying a 747 with flying a kite even though both are called flying (ok ,the disparity is obviously far greater there but you get the point). Much as I think a lot of the tube drivers are a bunch of agitators desperate to get their fingers in the till I suspect there job has a lot more responsibility than a bus driver even if driving a bus itself in london traffic is probably a bit harder than driving a tube train. B2003 |
Pay parity for bus drivers? was If Boris does win as now expected
In message
, at 02:07:06 on Tue, 6 May 2008, Boltar remarked: Why can't all drivers be on the same pay scale? You'd just have different *grades* of driver, including the most junior which was "have licence to drive bus, but not trains". I suspect the only thing bus driving and train driving have in common is that the vehicles both have wheels and they jobs are both called "driving". I don't really think you can compare the two anymore than you could compare flying a 747 with flying a kite even though both are called flying (ok ,the disparity is obviously far greater there but you get the point). Much as I think a lot of the tube drivers are a bunch of agitators desperate to get their fingers in the till I suspect there job has a lot more responsibility than a bus driver even if driving a bus itself in london traffic is probably a bit harder than driving a tube train. Of course the skills are different, which is why most of the drivers will only be qualified to be on one grade or the other. However this achieves the objective of having all of them on one "scale". Eg; Scale A: Drivers Grade i) PSV licence £10k-£15k according to experience Grade ii) Train driving licence £18k-£25k Scale B: Administrators Grade i) Barrier staff £8k-£12k Grade ii) Ticket office staff £10k-£15k Grade iii) Ops control staff £13k-£20k etc (All of the above merely illustrative). -- Roland Perry |
If Boris does win as now expected
In article ,
MIG wrote: You misunderstand (or I was unclear) about where I felt that the myth was. My point was that that the kind of money that would allow a community group (typically stereotyped as "black lesbians"*, regardless of what they actually do, hence the myth) to book rooms for a year, and therefore continue to exist, is tiny compared with the amount that any politician claims on expenses in the same period. Oh, OK. I thought the suggestion was that these groups didn't actually exist and the money (albeit a tiny amount) is just disappearing. Thanks for the clarification. But the former is presented as throwing money away, while the latter is presented as normal running costs. Yeah. Vulnerable people make easy scapegoats for disguising a lack of policies. :-( |
Pay parity for bus drivers? was If Boris does win as now
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Pay parity for bus drivers? was If Boris does win as now
On May 6, 2:24 pm, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article , (Boltar) wrote: I suspect the only thing bus driving and train driving have in common is that the vehicles both have wheels and they jobs are both called "driving". Not even that. The job title of the man at the front of a tube train has been "motorman" for over 1000 years. I thought that was an american expression, never heard it used over here. Even the drivers call themselves drivers. B2003 |
Pay parity for bus drivers? was If Boris does win as now
In message . uk, Colin
Rosenstiel writes In article , (Boltar) wrote: I suspect the only thing bus driving and train driving have in common is that the vehicles both have wheels and they jobs are both called "driving". Not even that. The job title of the man at the front of a tube train has been "motorman" for over 1000 years. I never knew that piece of info, thanks. -- Edward Cowling http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/easterdate/ |
Pay parity for bus drivers? was If Boris does win as now
On Tue, 6 May 2008, Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article , (Boltar) wrote: I suspect the only thing bus driving and train driving have in common is that the vehicles both have wheels and they jobs are both called "driving". Not even that. The job title of the man at the front of a tube train has been "motorman" for over 1000 years. Crikey, i knew the tube was old, but ... tom -- an expertly crafted mix of practical decision-making and drunken shouting |
Pay parity for bus drivers? was If Boris does win as now
Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article , (Boltar) wrote: I suspect the only thing bus driving and train driving have in common is that the vehicles both have wheels and they jobs are both called "driving". Not even that. The job title of the man at the front of a tube train has been "motorman" for over 1000 years. Amazing - I wonder what the Anglo-Saxons made of tube trains... If only they'd concentrated on heavy rail, Harold may have been better placed before William's invasion... Paul |
Pay parity for bus drivers? was If Boris does win as now
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Pay parity for bus drivers? was If Boris does win as now
On May 6, 3:19 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote: Amazing - I wonder what the Anglo-Saxons made of tube trains... If only they'd concentrated on heavy rail, Harold may have been better placed before William's invasion... Nah , he'd have been stuck somewhere north of peterborough - dead bodies on the line or some such excuse. B2003 |
Pay parity for bus drivers? was If Boris does win as now
On Tue, 6 May 2008, Paul Scott wrote:
Colin Rosenstiel wrote: In article , (Boltar) wrote: I suspect the only thing bus driving and train driving have in common is that the vehicles both have wheels and they jobs are both called "driving". Not even that. The job title of the man at the front of a tube train has been "motorman" for over 1000 years. Amazing - I wonder what the Anglo-Saxons made of tube trains... If only they'd concentrated on heavy rail, Harold may have been better placed before William's invasion... On the contrary, i rather think a dependence on British-engineered transport systems was at the root of his downfall! tom -- an expertly crafted mix of practical decision-making and drunken shouting |
Pay parity for bus drivers? was If Boris does win as now
In message . uk, Colin
Rosenstiel writes I suspect the only thing bus driving and train driving have in common is that the vehicles both have wheels and they jobs are both called "driving". Not even that. The job title of the man at the front of a tube train has been "motorman" for over 1000 years. According to my contract of employment (and licence) I'm employed as a Train Operator. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
Pay parity for bus drivers? was If Boris does win as now
In message
, Boltar writes On May 6, 2:24 pm, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote: In article , (Boltar) wrote: I suspect the only thing bus driving and train driving have in common is that the vehicles both have wheels and they jobs are both called "driving". Not even that. The job title of the man at the front of a tube train has been "motorman" for over 1000 years. I thought that was an american expression, never heard it used over here. Even the drivers call themselves drivers. I've heard it used when referring to traditional *tram* drivers in the UK (ie Blackpool but not Croydon, if you see what I mean). I've never heard it used for a "driver" on the London Underground but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Any LU staff care to comment? -- Ian Jelf, MITG Birmingham, UK Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk |
Pay parity for bus drivers? was If Boris does win as now
"Ian Jelf" wrote in message ... In message , Boltar writes On May 6, 2:24 pm, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote: In article , (Boltar) wrote: I suspect the only thing bus driving and train driving have in common is that the vehicles both have wheels and they jobs are both called "driving". Not even that. The job title of the man at the front of a tube train has been "motorman" for over 1000 years. I thought that was an american expression, never heard it used over here. Even the drivers call themselves drivers. I've heard it used when referring to traditional *tram* drivers in the UK (ie Blackpool but not Croydon, if you see what I mean). I've never heard it used for a "driver" on the London Underground but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Any LU staff care to comment? Pre one person operation the job title was "Motorman", with the term used by most staff to describe themselves, although if speaking to someone not conversent with LU jargon the term "Driver" would often avoid confusion. Post one person operation, the job title changed to "Train Operator" or the abriviation T/Op. The terms "Operator", "Tee-Op", "Top" & "Driver" are all used interchangably by staff both between themselves and themselves and in exchanges with the general public. (Although "Tee-Op" less so). The term "Motorman" is heard very infrequently thses days. -- Cheers, Steve. Change jealous to sad to reply. |
Pay parity for bus drivers? was If Boris does win as now
On Tue, 6 May 2008 15:19:25 +0100, "Paul Scott"
wrote: Colin Rosenstiel wrote: In article , (Boltar) wrote: I suspect the only thing bus driving and train driving have in common is that the vehicles both have wheels and they jobs are both called "driving". Not even that. The job title of the man at the front of a tube train has been "motorman" for over 1000 years. Amazing - I wonder what the Anglo-Saxons made of tube trains... If only they'd concentrated on heavy rail, Harold may have been better placed before William's invasion... Paul The problem with harold, was That most of his suppoters went Home after the Battle of Stamford Bridge, probaly the earliest Nort/SOuth Divide., |
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