Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

On 12 May, 00:02, James Farrar wrote:
On Sat, 10 May 2008 10:18:50 -0700 (PDT), MIG





wrote:
On May 10, 4:03*pm, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
09:35:03 on Thu, 8 May 2008, MIG remarked:

Even if you happen to use
one such gate to enter the Tube system, you will still be leaving it
by a gate with a reader or a standalone target - all of which will
show you your balance.

I can't remember the last time I went in or out of an LU gate that
displayed anything at all apart from maybe "Enter" or "Exit".

The display of your balance is somewhere that you have to train yourself
to look for (otherwise you miss it), but it's there.

If it's in a position where you have to stop and lean back to peer at
a tiny display while a queue builds up behind you, as opposed to being
on the large display facility in front of you, it's not really of any
practical use. *I am sure that, even on the older gates, information
used to be given on the large display, but maybe I am imagining it.

The Oyster target should normally be in front of you when you hold the
card on it, no?


By the time it displays something, after it's read your card and the
gates are open, you would have to be behaving very oddly and
inconsiderately for it still to be in front of you.

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

ý is pronounced as English "shch" ("sh" + "ch" quickly)

"y" is "oo". The shch sound is signified by that strange looking W
letter they nicked from hebrew (apparently).

The letter which I typed (and which your newsreader cannot show
correctly) is indeed similar to "W" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shcha_(Cyrillic)
for the image of that letter).

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

Boltar wrote:
On May 10, 11:34 pm, Richard wrote:
Paris - queue at the ticket office at the gare du nord , buy a Mobilis
(or whatever they're calling it this year). Sorted.
Heathrow - queue at the underground ticket office at Heathrow Central,
T4 or T5 and buy a One Day Travelcard or Bus Pass. Isn't that the
same?

Yes , except in Paris you won't get stitched for twice the price for
being a tourist and just buying a paper ticket.

If you're a tourist, RATP will try to sell you the overpriced Paris
Visite card instead of a Carte Orange. The cheapest Paris Visite cards
for a whole week (Zones 1-3) would cost EUR 41.50. Whereas a Carte
Orange would cost only 16.30 for 1-2 (and there is little of interest to
a tourist in zone 3) or 21.60 for 1-3.

So I think Paris can safely be added to the list of people who try to
rip off tourists.
--
Michael Hoffman

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

On Mon, 12 May 2008 03:16:50 -0700 (PDT), MIG
wrote:

On 12 May, 00:02, James Farrar wrote:
On Sat, 10 May 2008 10:18:50 -0700 (PDT), MIG





wrote:
On May 10, 4:03*pm, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
09:35:03 on Thu, 8 May 2008, MIG remarked:

Even if you happen to use
one such gate to enter the Tube system, you will still be leaving it
by a gate with a reader or a standalone target - all of which will
show you your balance.

I can't remember the last time I went in or out of an LU gate that
displayed anything at all apart from maybe "Enter" or "Exit".

The display of your balance is somewhere that you have to train yourself
to look for (otherwise you miss it), but it's there.

If it's in a position where you have to stop and lean back to peer at
a tiny display while a queue builds up behind you, as opposed to being
on the large display facility in front of you, it's not really of any
practical use. *I am sure that, even on the older gates, information
used to be given on the large display, but maybe I am imagining it.

The Oyster target should normally be in front of you when you hold the
card on it, no?


By the time it displays something, after it's read your card and the
gates are open, you would have to be behaving very oddly and
inconsiderately for it still to be in front of you.

The display shows the balance as the gates open. It's easy to read it
as you start to walk through the gate.

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

On May 12, 2:14 pm, Michael Hoffman wrote:
If you're a tourist, RATP will try to sell you the overpriced Paris
Visite card instead of a Carte Orange. The cheapest Paris Visite cards
for a whole week (Zones 1-3) would cost EUR 41.50. Whereas a Carte
Orange would cost only 16.30 for 1-2 (and there is little of interest to
a tourist in zone 3) or 21.60 for 1-3.

Yes , but the visite card gets you discounts of a shed load of
tourists sights unlike the normal tickets. Depending on where you
visit in a week it could save you a lot of money.

B2003

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

On 12 May, 16:01, James Farrar wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2008 03:16:50 -0700 (PDT), MIG





wrote:
On 12 May, 00:02, James Farrar wrote:
On Sat, 10 May 2008 10:18:50 -0700 (PDT), MIG

wrote:
On May 10, 4:03*pm, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
09:35:03 on Thu, 8 May 2008, MIG remarked:

Even if you happen to use
one such gate to enter the Tube system, you will still be leaving it
by a gate with a reader or a standalone target - all of which will
show you your balance.

I can't remember the last time I went in or out of an LU gate that
displayed anything at all apart from maybe "Enter" or "Exit".

The display of your balance is somewhere that you have to train yourself
to look for (otherwise you miss it), but it's there.

If it's in a position where you have to stop and lean back to peer at
a tiny display while a queue builds up behind you, as opposed to being
on the large display facility in front of you, it's not really of any
practical use. *I am sure that, even on the older gates, information
used to be given on the large display, but maybe I am imagining it.

The Oyster target should normally be in front of you when you hold the
card on it, no?

By the time it displays something, after it's read your card and the
gates are open, you would have to be behaving very oddly and
inconsiderately for it still to be in front of you.

The display shows the balance as the gates open. It's easy to read it
as you start to walk through the gate.-

It really isn't easy to read a tiny, faint display while you are
moving.

I would have to stop and peer carefully at it, and my faculties are
not particuarly degenerated.

Most people would already be past the pad, anticipating the opening of
the gates, and would never stop moving. If they did stop, someone
would walk into them and it would cause a delay.

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

In article , Peter Smyth
writes
Tokyo: at a metro station somewhere in the centre, the machine
happily accepted my approx-50-pound banknote and issued ticket and
(approx 49 pounds 50) change.

Was the change in notes or coins?

From memory, a mix.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

On Mon, 12 May 2008 09:09:07 -0700 (PDT), MIG
wrote:

On 12 May, 16:01, James Farrar wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2008 03:16:50 -0700 (PDT), MIG





wrote:
On 12 May, 00:02, James Farrar wrote:
On Sat, 10 May 2008 10:18:50 -0700 (PDT), MIG

wrote:
On May 10, 4:03*pm, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
09:35:03 on Thu, 8 May 2008, MIG remarked:

Even if you happen to use
one such gate to enter the Tube system, you will still be leaving it
by a gate with a reader or a standalone target - all of which will
show you your balance.

I can't remember the last time I went in or out of an LU gate that
displayed anything at all apart from maybe "Enter" or "Exit".

The display of your balance is somewhere that you have to train yourself
to look for (otherwise you miss it), but it's there.

If it's in a position where you have to stop and lean back to peer at
a tiny display while a queue builds up behind you, as opposed to being
on the large display facility in front of you, it's not really of any
practical use. *I am sure that, even on the older gates, information
used to be given on the large display, but maybe I am imagining it.

The Oyster target should normally be in front of you when you hold the
card on it, no?

By the time it displays something, after it's read your card and the
gates are open, you would have to be behaving very oddly and
inconsiderately for it still to be in front of you.

The display shows the balance as the gates open. It's easy to read it
as you start to walk through the gate.-

It really isn't easy to read a tiny, faint display while you are
moving.

I would have to stop and peer carefully at it, and my faculties are
not particuarly degenerated.

Most people would already be past the pad, anticipating the opening of
the gates, and would never stop moving. If they did stop, someone
would walk into them and it would cause a delay.

If you're past sight of the pad, you've walked into the gate...

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

On May 12, 6:12*pm, James Farrar wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2008 09:09:07 -0700 (PDT), MIG





wrote:
On 12 May, 16:01, James Farrar wrote:
On Mon, 12 May 2008 03:16:50 -0700 (PDT), MIG

wrote:
On 12 May, 00:02, James Farrar wrote:
On Sat, 10 May 2008 10:18:50 -0700 (PDT), MIG

wrote:
On May 10, 4:03*pm, Roland Perry wrote:
In message
, at
09:35:03 on Thu, 8 May 2008, MIG remarked:

Even if you happen to use
one such gate to enter the Tube system, you will still be leaving it
by a gate with a reader or a standalone target - all of which will
show you your balance.

I can't remember the last time I went in or out of an LU gate that
displayed anything at all apart from maybe "Enter" or "Exit".

The display of your balance is somewhere that you have to train yourself
to look for (otherwise you miss it), but it's there.

If it's in a position where you have to stop and lean back to peer at
a tiny display while a queue builds up behind you, as opposed to being
on the large display facility in front of you, it's not really of any
practical use. *I am sure that, even on the older gates, information
used to be given on the large display, but maybe I am imagining it.

The Oyster target should normally be in front of you when you hold the
card on it, no?

By the time it displays something, after it's read your card and the
gates are open, you would have to be behaving very oddly and
inconsiderately for it still to be in front of you.

The display shows the balance as the gates open. It's easy to read it
as you start to walk through the gate.-

It really isn't easy to read a tiny, faint display while you are
moving.

I would have to stop and peer carefully at it, and my faculties are
not particuarly degenerated.

Most people would already be past the pad, anticipating the opening of
the gates, and would never stop moving. *If they did stop, someone
would walk into them and it would cause a delay.

If you're past sight of the pad, you've walked into the gate...-

Not unless my stomach protruded by about a yard.

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

On Mon, 12 May 2008, alex_t wrote:

ý is pronounced as English "shch" ("sh" + "ch" quickly)

"y" is "oo". The shch sound is signified by that strange looking W
letter they nicked from hebrew (apparently).

The letter which I typed (and which your newsreader cannot show
correctly) is indeed similar to "W" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shcha_(Cyrillic)
for the image of that letter).

And has a KOI8 code point of 253, which in ISO 8859-1 means
y-with-an-acute.

Which, in a nutshell, is why unicode was invented!

tom

--
Argumentative and pedantic, oh, yes. Although it's properly called
"correct" -- Huge

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

On 12 May 2008 (Neil Williams) wrote
in :

On Sun, 11 May 2008 19:48:05 +0100, Arthur Figgis
wrote:

Is it true that the Japanese don't really go in for payment by
card, and happily carry around large amounts of cash instead?

I believe so. Cash machines are also less common than over here
and tend to open only business hours - so another reason not to
get "caught short". The crime rate is very low, though, so the
chance of it getting nicked is fairly small.

Indeed, I once gave a hotel receiptionist when she told me I was too
early to use the cash machine! They also have a lot of cash machines
that will only accept Japanese issued cards. Getting travelers cheques
changed can also be entertaining. Taking a lot of cash out with you is
the easiest option.

--
Graham Drabble
http://www.drabble.me.uk/

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

Boltar wrote:
On May 12, 2:14 pm, Michael Hoffman wrote:
If you're a tourist, RATP will try to sell you the overpriced Paris
Visite card instead of a Carte Orange. The cheapest Paris Visite cards
for a whole week (Zones 1-3) would cost EUR 41.50. Whereas a Carte
Orange would cost only 16.30 for 1-2 (and there is little of interest to
a tourist in zone 3) or 21.60 for 1-3.

Yes , but the visite card gets you discounts of a shed load of
tourists sights unlike the normal tickets. Depending on where you
visit in a week it could save you a lot of money.

Some places make it near impossible for tourists to buy the normal
ticket without the discounts for museums they don't want to visit -
Budapest was one, where they claim it is impossible to buy the day
ticket at the airport.

So you find yourself staggering into an dull exhibition twenty minutes
before it shuts, with an "I'm damned well going to get my money's worth
out of this blasted ticket" expression.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

Boltar wrote:
On May 12, 2:14 pm, Michael Hoffman wrote:
If you're a tourist, RATP will try to sell you the overpriced Paris
Visite card instead of a Carte Orange. The cheapest Paris Visite cards
for a whole week (Zones 1-3) would cost EUR 41.50. Whereas a Carte
Orange would cost only 16.30 for 1-2 (and there is little of interest to
a tourist in zone 3) or 21.60 for 1-3.

Yes , but the visite card gets you discounts of a shed load of
tourists sights unlike the normal tickets.

As far as I can tell, the few sites (hardly a "shed load") where you get
a discount are mainly sites that most tourists would not visit
otherwise. I certainly have never felt the need to pay for any of these
dubious attractions.
--
Michael Hoffman

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

"Arthur Figgis" wrote in message
news:h_ydndKTCtfkKrXVnZ2dnUVZ8gydnZ2d@plusnet...

Some places make it near impossible for tourists to buy the normal ticket
without the discounts for museums they don't want to visit - Budapest was
one, where they claim it is impossible to buy the day ticket at the
airport.

So you find yourself staggering into an dull exhibition twenty minutes
before it shuts, with an "I'm damned well going to get my money's worth
out of this blasted ticket" expression.

--

Good cuisine in Budapest, however.

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 04:26:01PM -0700, MIG wrote:

Sorry I was out for a while, but it seems to me that the relationships
with English pronunciation are probably not the relevant ones.

Indeed. For looking out of the window of a train and realising "oh, I
need to get off here", what matters is that Russian (or Greek)
characters are pretty easy to recognise if you're literate in a language
that uses the Latin alphabet, even if you have no idea how KPACHbIE
BOPOTA is pronounced. That's because even if the letters appear to make
no sense (and some might be unrecognisable) there will be at least
*some* that you can easily remember, and then when you see the same name
again the whole name will be recognisable.

This does assume that it's in the same case as it was the first time you
saw it of course :-)

Japanese is an entirely different matter. Not a single character is
recognisable.

--
David Cantrell | Nth greatest programmer in the world

If you have received this email in error, please add some nutmeg
and egg whites, whisk, and place in a warm oven for 40 minutes.

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 02:48:16AM -0700, CJB wrote:

The situation would be marginally better if the airlines sold Oyster
cards on board, or if Oysters could be bought from vending machines.

I would stop moaning about Oyster if TfL bothered to put vending
machines at convenient places in south London. Y'know, I bet that
people like Tesco would be happy to have Oystery ticket machines in
their shops (for a small cut of course) so that people could renew
their travelcards or top up their pre-pay balance. It wouldn't be the
first time a large public company had put its facilities inside
supermarkets because it was convenient for their users - there's a post
box inside my local Tesco.

Unfortunately the only Oyster vending machine I have ever seen is at
London Bridge station, an area whose residents have tube stations
available.

--
David Cantrell | Hero of the Information Age

EIN KIRCHE! EIN KREDO! EIN PAPST!

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

Michael Hoffman wrote:
Boltar wrote:
On May 12, 2:14 pm, Michael Hoffman wrote:
If you're a tourist, RATP will try to sell you the overpriced Paris
Visite card instead of a Carte Orange. The cheapest Paris Visite cards
for a whole week (Zones 1-3) would cost EUR 41.50. Whereas a Carte
Orange would cost only 16.30 for 1-2 (and there is little of interest to
a tourist in zone 3) or 21.60 for 1-3.

Yes , but the visite card gets you discounts of a shed load of
tourists sights unlike the normal tickets.

As far as I can tell, the few sites (hardly a "shed load") where you get
a discount are mainly sites that most tourists would not visit
otherwise. I certainly have never felt the need to pay for any of these
dubious attractions.

We had a short visit to Paris in January and got the 3-day Zones 1-3
Paris Visite ticket for €19 and used it extensively on Metro, buses,
Montmartre funicular. We managed to use 4 of the discounted offers - Arc
de Triomphe, Opéra Nationale, Bâteaux Parisiens, Grand'Arche de la
Défense - and certainly didn't regard them as "dubious" attractions, and
all in all thought it quite good value. On previous visits I have used
the "Carte Orange", notably while camping out at Maisons-Laffite, but I
think it is not available for less than a week - and now comes in the
form of "Navigo" (French for Oyster!) and costing more for those not
resident in Ile-de-France.

Peter Beale

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

In article
,
alex_t writes

Pass! I would imagine that your operating system, if it's modern, is using
unicode internally, that your newsreader is using unicode represented as
UTF-8 (as you said), but that before it goes to the network, it's getting
encoded as KOI8. BICBW.

My "newsreader" is actually Google Groups - who known what weird
things Google's doing "out there" ;-)

Google handle KOI8 encoding properly - and UTF-8, too. Microsoft don't
(in Hotmail, at least).

Gives me no end of hassles in Mosocw.

(And to be within shouting distance of the topic, the worst thing on the
Moscow Metro is that the different lines in an interchange station will
all have their own station names, so Arbat is the same station as Lenin
Library (for instance))
--
Steve

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

On Tue, 13 May 2008, Steve wrote:

(And to be within shouting distance of the topic, the worst thing on the
Moscow Metro is that the different lines in an interchange station will
all have their own station names, so Arbat is the same station as Lenin
Library (for instance))

Same in New York, isn't it - 51st Street is also Lexington Avenue / 53rd
Street. Which is not to be confused with 5th Avenue / 53rd Street. Nor is
7th Avenue to be confused with 57th Street - 7th Avenue, nor that with
57th Street. It's okay to confuse 59th Street with Lexington Avenue / 59th
Street, though, since those *are* the same station. But not to confuse
50th Street with 50th Street, nor 23rd Street with any of 23rd Street,
23rd Street, 23rd Street, or 23rd Street.

Basically, pack of jokers.

Although i should confess that this kind of silliness does go on in London
- we've two each of Edgware Road, Paddington, Hammersmith and Shepherds
Bush. But only one case where a single station has two names.

tom

--
What's hit's history; what's missed's mystery.

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

On 13 May 2008 David Cantrell wrote in
:

I would stop moaning about Oyster if TfL bothered to put vending
machines at convenient places in south London. Y'know, I bet that
people like Tesco would be happy to have Oystery ticket machines
in their shops (for a small cut of course) so that people could
renew their travelcards or top up their pre-pay balance. It
wouldn't be the first time a large public company had put its
facilities inside supermarkets because it was convenient for their
users - there's a post box inside my local Tesco.

On the other side from this it would be nice if the station vending
machines / shops could take money from an oyster card. Tokyo Suica
cards do this and it is very convenient. (Also great when working,
Suica == travel == expenses!!!)

--
Graham Drabble
http://www.drabble.me.uk/

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

On May 14, 11:39*pm, Graham Drabble wrote:
On 13 May 2008 David Cantrell wrote . uk:

I would stop moaning about Oyster if TfL bothered to put vending
machines at convenient places in south London. *Y'know, I bet that
people like Tesco would be happy to have Oystery ticket machines
in their shops (for a small cut of course) so that people could
renew their travelcards or top up their pre-pay balance. *It
wouldn't be the first time a large public company had put its
facilities inside supermarkets because it was convenient for their
users - there's a post box inside my local Tesco.

On the other side from this it would be nice if the station vending
machines / shops could take money from an oyster card. Tokyo Suica
cards do this and it is very convenient. (Also great when working,
Suica == travel == expenses!!!)

Ultimately, you will have a smart card which will be used to pay for
everything while storing your biometric details etc, and cash will no
longer be accepted. Then the authorities will know everything you've
bought as well as everywhere you've been. The card will be your permit
to exist, which can be revoked at any time. It's inevitable, but why
hasten the process?

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

In message
, at
23:39:59 on Wed, 14 May 2008, Graham Drabble
remarked:
I would stop moaning about Oyster if TfL bothered to put vending
machines at convenient places in south London. Y'know, I bet that
people like Tesco would be happy to have Oystery ticket machines
in their shops

On the other side from this it would be nice if the station vending
machines / shops could take money from an oyster card.

That was part of the plan, but as I understand it the financial rules in
this country would mean that Tfl had to become a "bank" and that was too
much for them.

In the mean time Barclaycard have stepped into the void with their
"onepulse" combined Oyster and pay-wave card. I have yet to see any
pay-wave enabled tills, let alone vending machines, though.
--
Roland Perry

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

On 15 May, 09:39, Roland Perry wrote:
That was part of the plan, but as I understand it the financial rules in
this country would mean that Tfl had to become a "bank" and that was too
much for them.

The official line was they couldn't find a partner (=investor), which
I took to mean the venture was considered unprofitable, which is what
will save us from MIG's future vision.

In the mean time Barclaycard have stepped into the void with their
"onepulse" combined Oyster and pay-wave card. I have yet to see any
pay-wave enabled tills, let alone vending machines, though.

The Oyster section isn't at all linked to the paywave or the Credit
Card parts. The paywave site has a pretty pathetic map of retailers:
http://www.visapaywave.co.uk/

(although one of them is a newsagents a few doors down from my flat,
so I may go have a look)

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

In message
, at
02:08:00 on Thu, 15 May 2008, Mr Thant
remarked:
On 15 May, 09:39, Roland Perry wrote:
That was part of the plan, but as I understand it the financial rules in
this country would mean that Tfl had to become a "bank" and that was too
much for them.

The official line was they couldn't find a partner (=investor),

But the investment would be needed mainly to qualify as a "bank", I
presume.

which I took to mean the venture was considered unprofitable, which is
what will save us from MIG's future vision.

Most e-cash seems to be "unprofitable", apart from closed systems like
Oyster. There are even in the banking industry those who think that
schemes like "pay-wave" are daft, encouraging lots of very small credit
card transactions.

In the mean time Barclaycard have stepped into the void with their
"onepulse" combined Oyster and pay-wave card. I have yet to see any
pay-wave enabled tills, let alone vending machines, though.

The Oyster section isn't at all linked to the paywave or the Credit
Card parts.

It's linked in the sense that there is an auto top-up facility for a
flow of funds from Credit Card to Oyster; but there's none in the other
direction.

The paywave site has a pretty pathetic map of retailers:
http://www.visapaywave.co.uk/

Thanks. (Although it's a ghasty over-flashed site, and the mapping is
very hard to use, and slow; you need to realise that several of the
categories are "zero".)
--
Roland Perry

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

Found an "interesting" problem with Oyster today. One of my collegues
has been over from the States and goes back today. He had a prepay
oyster which originally he bought with cash but he topped up with a
credit card.

Because he had used both cash and topped up with a credit card he
couldn't get a refund (well they would post a cheque to him).
Fortunately there was someone at work happy to buy it off him for
cash.

Tim.

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

On 15 May, 10:08, Mr Thant
wrote:
(although one of them is a newsagents a few doors down from my flat,
so I may go have a look)

I went in this place just now and there are no signs whatsoever and
the reader is hidden with a load of other clutter on the side of the
counter - it took me a while to spot it. So I can't imagine it's ever
used.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

On Thu, 15 May 2008 09:39:01 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In the mean time Barclaycard have stepped into the void with their
"onepulse" combined Oyster and pay-wave card. I have yet to see any
pay-wave enabled tills, let alone vending machines, though.

Subway sandwich shops and the newsagent's in St Katharine's Dock have
them. I doubt they'll be used very much when most shops seem to
charge the same surcharge as Chip and PIN, though, and I consider them
a big security risk compared with "electronic wallet" schemes.

I think there is space for a German "Geldkarte" style scheme but with
contactless cards, but only of the pre-charged variety and probably
tied to debit rather than credit cards.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

In message , at 19:16:25 on Thu,
15 May 2008, Neil Williams remarked:
In the mean time Barclaycard have stepped into the void with their
"onepulse" combined Oyster and pay-wave card. I have yet to see any
pay-wave enabled tills, let alone vending machines, though.

Subway sandwich shops and the newsagent's in St Katharine's Dock have
them. I doubt they'll be used very much when most shops seem to
charge the same surcharge as Chip and PIN, though

Lady Bracknell

A *surcharge* !!!

/Lady Bracknell

--
Roland Perry

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

On Tue, 13 May 2008 15:10:55 +0100, Peter Beale
wrote:
We had a short visit to Paris in January and got the 3-day Zones 1-3
Paris Visite ticket for €19 and used it extensively on Metro, buses,
Montmartre funicular. We managed to use 4 of the discounted offers - Arc
de Triomphe, Opéra Nationale, Bâteaux Parisiens, Grand'Arche de la
Défense - and certainly didn't regard them as "dubious" attractions, and
all in all thought it quite good value.

Yes, all good stuff, although I don't think I've ever used these
reductions.

On previous visits I have used
the "Carte Orange", notably while camping out at Maisons-Laffite, but I
think it is not available for less than a week - and now comes in the
form of "Navigo" (French for Oyster!) and costing more for those not
resident in Ile-de-France.

Yes, it's a week or a month (or a year for the differently-branded
"Intégrale"). Unfortunately it's still a fixed week (Mon-Sun) or
month. Even with the Carte Orange now officially available for
aliens, this "feature" prevents its use for long weekends, etc. I
don't believe it costs more for non-residents, however, except that
the card costs 5 euros and isn't replaced if lost...

Richard.

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

Richard wrote:
On Tue, 13 May 2008 15:10:55 +0100, Peter Beale
wrote:
We had a short visit to Paris in January and got the 3-day Zones 1-3
Paris Visite ticket for €19 and used it extensively on Metro, buses,
Montmartre funicular. We managed to use 4 of the discounted offers - Arc
de Triomphe, Opéra Nationale, Bâteaux Parisiens, Grand'Arche de la
Défense - and certainly didn't regard them as "dubious" attractions, and
all in all thought it quite good value.

Yes, all good stuff, although I don't think I've ever used these
reductions.

On previous visits I have used
the "Carte Orange", notably while camping out at Maisons-Laffite, but I
think it is not available for less than a week - and now comes in the
form of "Navigo" (French for Oyster!) and costing more for those not
resident in Ile-de-France.

Yes, it's a week or a month (or a year for the differently-branded
"Intégrale"). Unfortunately it's still a fixed week (Mon-Sun) or
month. Even with the Carte Orange now officially available for
aliens, this "feature" prevents its use for long weekends, etc. I
don't believe it costs more for non-residents, however, except that
the card costs 5 euros and isn't replaced if lost...


I realize that on checking the RATP site again - there is le passe
Navigo for Ile-de-France residents, and le passe Navigo Découverte for
non-residents, as you say - for some reason I had it in my mind that
there were two scales of fares.

Peter Beale

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

In article
, Mr
Thant writes
On 15 May, 10:08, Mr Thant
wrote:
(although one of them is a newsagents a few doors down from my flat,
so I may go have a look)

I went in this place just now and there are no signs whatsoever and
the reader is hidden with a load of other clutter on the side of the
counter - it took me a while to spot it. So I can't imagine it's ever
used.

My local corner shop/post office has an Oyster reader/top up machine. OK
if you've got cash, but they charge an extra 50p if you want to use a
debit card.
--
congokid
Eating out in London? Read my tips...
http://congokid.com

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

"congokid" wrote in message
...
In article
, Mr
Thant writes
On 15 May, 10:08, Mr Thant
wrote:
(although one of them is a newsagents a few doors down from my flat,
so I may go have a look)

I went in this place just now and there are no signs whatsoever and
the reader is hidden with a load of other clutter on the side of the
counter - it took me a while to spot it. So I can't imagine it's ever
used.

My local corner shop/post office has an Oyster reader/top up machine. OK
if you've got cash, but they charge an extra 50p if you want to use a
debit card.

That's the store's policy, not TfL's, because businesses are charged for
using debit cards.

Boris - remove this absurd Oyster vs cash cost disparity
 

On Sat, 17 May 2008 14:15:56 +0100, wrote:

That's the store's policy, not TfL's, because businesses are charged for
using debit cards.

Though it's a policy with which these "payWave" type cards will never
catch on.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.