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Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 10:23:19PM +0100, Tom Barry wrote:
My gut feeling is that the bendies will be put out to pasture when their natural life is up, which may be from about 2012 onwards (I'm assuming average bus life in London as being about ten years ... apart from Routemasters, of course, which were still going strong after as near as damnit 50 years - yes, admittedly with a couple of major refurbs and with regular maintenance, but the only reason that a modern bus wouldn't last 50 years if looked after would be because it's a crap bus built down to a price instead of built to do the job properly. -- David Cantrell | A machine for turning tea into grumpiness More people are driven insane through religious hysteria than by drinking alcohol. -- W C Fields |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
Tom Barry wrote:
In what sense does this differ from Underground trains with transverse seating, the Overground 378s (ditto) and modern light rail vehicles like Tramlink's (quoted capacity 208, which certainly isn't all seated)? It's something of a mistake to see bendy buses as merely a bigger bus, they're more akin to large-scale people movers where some standing at peak times is designed in, in return for speed of pickup/setdown. They're a European design for European style operations, i.e. that the sole purpose of buses is to move a large number of people from somewhere away from a rapid transit rail system to a station on said rail system as quickly as possible. They're less suited to long UK- style "sit-down" suburb to city journeys, but are pretty much perfectly suited to central London operations like the Red Arrows. Neil |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 10:28:42PM +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:
I like bendy buses and I think they do have a role in a busy bus network like London's. I don't expect many here to agree with me but hey! I think they do too, just not on the routes they're currently on (actually I'm only really familiar with the 38 and 73, and then only as far east as Holborn). They'd do better on routes that run along major roads without too many junctions, such as along the Embankment or Euston Road, or out to Heathrow. Where they're not suitable is on twisty high-frequency routes where they block junctions and have difficulty getting around parked vehicles. -- David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david Your call is important to me. To see if it's important to you I'm going to make you wait on hold for five minutes before putting you through to Dave's mobile. This call will be recorded for quality and amusement purposes. |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On 15 May, 11:47, Neil Williams wrote:
Tom Barry wrote: In what sense does this differ from Underground trains with transverse seating, the Overground 378s (ditto) and modern light rail vehicles like Tramlink's (quoted capacity 208, which certainly isn't all seated)? It's something of a mistake to see bendy buses as merely a bigger bus, they're more akin to large-scale people movers where some standing at peak times is designed in, in return for speed of pickup/setdown. They're a European design for European style operations, i.e. that the sole purpose of buses is to move a large number of people from somewhere away from a rapid transit rail system to a station on said rail system as quickly as possible. *They're less suited to long UK- style "sit-down" suburb to city journeys, but are pretty much perfectly suited to central London operations like the Red Arrows. The operations but not the windy, narrow roads. When I cycle I often find myself at places like St Pauls trying to get past overlapping 521s which are managing to block both lanes of the road while diagonally enclosing areas of empty space that nothing can drive into, but leaving too few inches of space at at least one point for a even a bike to squeeze past. |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On May 15, 11:53 am, MIG wrote:
The operations but not the windy, narrow roads. When I cycle I often find myself at places like St Pauls trying to get past overlapping 521s which are managing to block both lanes of the road while diagonally enclosing areas of empty space that nothing can drive into, but leaving too few inches of space at at least one point for a even a bike to squeeze past. Ah, you're a cyclist. Suddenly it all becomes clear... -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On 15 May, 12:10, John B wrote:
On May 15, 11:53 am, MIG wrote: The operations but not the windy, narrow roads. *When I cycle I often find myself at places like St Pauls trying to get past overlapping 521s which are managing to block both lanes of the road while diagonally enclosing areas of empty space that nothing can drive into, but leaving too few inches of space at at least one point for a even a bike to squeeze past. Ah, you're a cyclist. Suddenly it all becomes clear... I'm also a bus passenger and pedestrian (crosser-of-roads) at various times, during which I find that bendy buses are disadvantageous to me compared with other kinds of buses, even if they are preferable to cars and vans. That is, bus drivers may be less likely than van drivers to block pedestrian crossings, but bendy buses are more likely to do so than other buses. To answer an earlier question, I have come up against this problem in Oxford Street, High Holborn, Regent Street, Trafalgar Square ... (By the way, I don't think you can define a person by a thing they do sometimes [or by what they eat or their hair colour ...].) |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On May 15, 1:05 pm, MIG wrote:
That is, bus drivers may be less likely than van drivers to block pedestrian crossings, but bendy buses are more likely to do so than other buses. Thats down to bad drivers, not the bus itself. Using that logic all HGVs should be replaced by 7.5 tonners. As an occasional bus user I much prefer bendy buses - they're easy to get on and off and theres usually plenty of room. Not so on a double decker trying to scoop up the same amount of people and thats before you have to worry about old grannies trying to clamber up and down the hopelessly narrow stairway. B2003 |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On 15 May, 16:55, Boltar wrote:
On May 15, 1:05 pm, MIG wrote: That is, bus drivers may be less likely than van drivers to block pedestrian crossings, but bendy buses are more likely to do so than other buses. Thats down to bad drivers, not the bus itself. Using that logic all HGVs should be replaced by 7.5 tonners. As an occasional bus user I much prefer bendy buses - they're easy to get on and off and theres usually plenty of room. Not so on a double decker trying to scoop up the same amount of people and thats before you have to worry about old grannies trying to clamber up and down the hopelessly narrow stairway. In order to obey the Highway Code, a bendy bus driver has the more difficult task of judging whether there is (or is about to be) a full bendy length of space beyond a crossing or junction. The difficulty of the judgement is increased by the type of bus. If they misjudge, they block the crossing or junction. If they judge correctly (or overcompensate), they will often have to wait through another cycle of lights even though a double decker (or whatever vehicle is trapped behind) could have legitimately gone through and reached the next bus stop while the bendy is now stuck at the next red. |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On May 15, 5:18 pm, MIG wrote:
In order to obey the Highway Code, a bendy bus driver has the more difficult task of judging whether there is (or is about to be) a full bendy length of space beyond a crossing or junction. The difficulty of the judgement is increased by the type of bus. Like I said , its down to the driver. HGV drivers can just the space correctly (most of the time) because they're well trained. If a bus driver can't (or doesn't care if he blocks the junction) then either their training leaves something to be desired or they're not suitable for the job in the first place. B2003 |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
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