On Sat, 17 May 2008 23:21:39 +0100, Tom Barry
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:

Very unlikely as none of them are owned by the big groups so they won't
cascade via that route. They are all leased and may end up almost
anywhere but given the three door layout it's most probable they'll end
up doing airport transfers or similar. If they can be converted to two
door then they may have more utility for other UK operators.

Hmm, good point. The leasing companies will presumably expect to be
compensated if you want to hand them back early, unless they've been
remiss with the contracts (particularly given that right-hand-drive
Citaro Gs aren't in huge demand, so finding an alternative user is
problematic). Therefore you have the possibility of a Mayor elected on
a platform of better financial control spending money to return a leased
bus fleet early and then spending more money replacing it with more
labour-intensive hardware that costs more to run, purely because of his
personal antipathy to the design.

I doubt the leasing companies will have missed a trick. Some of the
spare ex Selkent bendies are going to Arriva to bolster some North
London routes and I think some others are going to the 25 (not 100% sure
on that). Others have gone back to Dawson Rentals. The acid test will
be what the hell happens to the retendering of the Red Arrows - they are
out to tender now but the new contract starts in a year's time. Artics
make a lot of sense on those routes given the heavy peak flows. I
personally can't see them being replaced by deckers so we'd be back to
rigid single decks but needing more of them than currently. I don't see
how that is value for money.

I don't think there is any real financial logic to the Boris Bus Plans
but then there is no logic to the policy at all given, as you say, it is
based on personal antipathy. This is the worst basis on which to make
policy.

Have I missed anything? Obviously it would be nice to know who's signed
up to what (TfL presumably signed something saying we'll have x number
of buses for y years at z pounds/year but the details may be important)
but I doubt anyone will tell us.

I have never seen anything published that shows vehicle leasing costs or
who the contracts are with. The operators sort out the vehicles but have
to comply with TfL's general specs as well as the specific contract
terms for each route. TfL simply pay a performance adjusted contract fee
- the annualised cost per route is typically shown on the bus tender
awards page. However costs can become "murky" if a group discount tender
is awarded where the operator offers a lower price if it wins several
routes in one tranche. I doubt FOI would work either as commercial
confidentiality certainly applies to the monetary amounts in what is a
competitive tendering process.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

In message , at 20:38:53 on
Sat, 17 May 2008, Paul Corfield remarked:
They are all leased and may end up almost anywhere but given the three
door layout

Why can't one set of doors simply be disabled?
--
Roland Perry

On May 17, 11:00*am, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On Sat, 17 May 2008 00:07:58 +0100, "Ivor Jones"

wrote:
The problem with deckers in a lot of areas is that's where the yobs tend
to congregate, usually at the back. It's dirtier and smellier up there, as
there are chip wrappers and drinks cans all over the place and more
graffiti than you can shake a stick at.

This is true. *One design a while ago tried to discourage this by
fitting hard plastic seats at the back and comfortable padded ones
elsewhere. *As I've not seen it since, I assume it was not successful.

There are some buses around that have hard seats all along, but with
fabric on them so they look as if they are padded. One tends to break
one's bottom on them when flumping down expecting padding.



The smell is avoided to some extent by the extractor fans fitted to
newer London deckers (which also works very well to avoid other smells
and to avoid steaming up in winter).

There are more robberies at the back of the upper deck than anywhere else
on a bus. Why anyone (except the yobs) sit there is beyond me..!

If the front seat is taken and it has facing seats at the back, it's
where I usually sit, for the legroom...

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
news
In message , at 20:38:53 on
Sat, 17 May 2008, Paul Corfield remarked:
They are all leased and may end up almost anywhere but given the three
door layout

Why can't one set of doors simply be disabled?
--
Roland Perry

I've often wondered if drivers can separately control each set of doors on
bendibusses.

It seems that they can control the front door separately, while the rear two
always work in sync.

Why also have they put in a delay between when passengers push the stop
button and the bell actually ringing? Earlier, as soon as you pushed the
button, the bell would immediately ring.

On Sun, 18 May 2008 10:51:43 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 20:38:53 on
Sat, 17 May 2008, Paul Corfield remarked:
They are all leased and may end up almost anywhere but given the three
door layout

Why can't one set of doors simply be disabled?

Or even plated over. That's what happened to most deckers and the
likes that have gone from London to elsewhere - replace the panel, add
2 rows of seats.

That said, provincial bus operators don't like extra doors because of
fare-dodging. If they have to have the one on the artic section
(which I think they do), a middle set won't be any more of a problem.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

In message , at 11:17:58 on Sun, 18
May 2008, remarked:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
news
In message , at 20:38:53 on
Sat, 17 May 2008, Paul Corfield remarked:
They are all leased and may end up almost anywhere but given the three
door layout

Why can't one set of doors simply be disabled?

I've often wondered if drivers can separately control each set of doors on
bendibusses.

It seems that they can control the front door separately, while the rear two
always work in sync.

I was suggesting something like taking the motors out one set of rear
doors, and nailing them shut.

Why also have they put in a delay between when passengers push the stop
button and the bell actually ringing? Earlier, as soon as you pushed the
button, the bell would immediately ring.

Is the delay always the same? If it varies, maybe the driver is pressing
a button to confirm. That might be useful when someone presses the
button as the bus is whizzing alongside a stop (but too late to brake)
to emphasise that he's only expecting to stop at the *next* one.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 10:49:02 on Sun,
18 May 2008, Neil Williams remarked:
That said, provincial bus operators don't like extra doors because of
fare-dodging. If they have to have the one on the artic section
(which I think they do), a middle set won't be any more of a problem.

Nottingham's bendy buses seem to have one door at the front and a second
one in the back section just behind the "concertina". They are far
enough apart that when pulled up to a normal bus stop (which are usually
arranged so the queue starts at the front of the bus and then grows away
so the driver can see the whole queue ahead of him) you wouldn't expect
any of the people in the queue to be running to the back to get on.
--
Roland Perry

:
: Agreed. But no more Tridents, please........

I'm sure I'm going to regret saying this, but why..? From a driver's point
of view, I quite like the Tridents. They're certainly better than a lot of
the alternatives, particularly the Volvo B7's which I detest with a
passion.

Alexander Dennis have discontinued the Trident. About 2 years ago it
was replaced with the Enviro 400

On 20 May, 12:11, Stephen Allcroft
wrote:

Alexander Dennis have discontinued the Trident. * About 2 years ago it
was replaced with the Enviro 400

Which is an equally cheap-looking, plasticky piece of crap, IMO.

The Wrightbus product is vastly superior (as it is, IMO, in all
classes of bus), and I would be quite happy if TfL was to insist on
that (and its single-decker variant where appliable) as a standard bus
(perhaps let the operator choose the chassis as this has little impact
on the passenger - I certainly can't tell the difference between the
VDL and Volvo chassis as a passenger other than the badge).

Neil

On 17 May, 20:14, "Bevan Price" meVIAfreeukFULLSTOPcom wrote:
"Tom Barry" wrote in message

...



MIG wrote:

No, he is just wrong. Most passengers don't like them either, and I
can't believe it's much fun for the drivers except if they are paid
more for coping with them.

Operators may like the idea of not having to collect fares, but that
is independent of the shape of the bus.

And don't forget pedestrians, whose crossings are constantly blocked
by them.

Constantly? Where?

Personally, they're just a bloody bus, I don't detest or like them any
more than any other bus and regard the way whole furore became the only
transport issue ever debated as completely inexplicable.

My gut feeling is that the bendies will be put out to pasture when their
natural life is up, which may be from about 2012 onwards (I'm assuming
average bus life in London as being about ten years, but bendies serving
intensive routes may tire faster

Or more likely, London rejects will be inflicted on places like Leeds,
Glasgow, Manchester, etc., as has happened with double deckers when Ken &
successor decide they are too old for London.

Bevan

Yey yet more passed it buses