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Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
Read in the Lite today that Moir Lockhead is warning Boris about the
plan to reintroduce Routemasters - and is trying to peddle him the "ftr", which is, umm, a glorified bendy bus. Will First never learn? In my experience, their buses in London are some of the oldest, dirtiest and most poorly-maintained. Not a good start. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
"Neil Williams" wrote: Read in the Lite today that Moir Lockhead is warning Boris about the plan to reintroduce Routemasters - and is trying to peddle him the "ftr", which is, umm, a glorified bendy bus. Will First never learn? In my experience, their buses in London are some of the oldest, dirtiest and most poorly-maintained. Not a good start. He also said that bus passengers and operators like the bendies - it's other road users (ie cabbies and cyclists, I guess) who detest them. Now the election is over, I fully expect this 'new Routemaster' stuff to be quietly shelved. This would represent the biggest U-turn since.....well......Ken promised never to scrap the Routemaster! Chris |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On May 14, 8:53*pm, "Chris Read" wrote:
"Neil Williams" wrote: Read in the Lite today that Moir Lockhead is warning Boris about the plan to reintroduce Routemasters - and is trying to peddle him the "ftr", which is, umm, a glorified bendy bus. Will First never learn? *In my experience, their buses in London are some of the oldest, dirtiest and most poorly-maintained. *Not a good start. He also said that bus passengers and operators like the bendies - it's other road users (ie cabbies and cyclists, I guess) who detest them. No, he is just wrong. Most passengers don't like them either, and I can't believe it's much fun for the drivers except if they are paid more for coping with them. Operators may like the idea of not having to collect fares, but that is independent of the shape of the bus. And don't forget pedestrians, whose crossings are constantly blocked by them. Now the election is over, I fully expect this 'new Routemaster' stuff to be quietly shelved. This would represent the biggest U-turn since.....well......Ken promised never to scrap the Routemaster! But why should we accept that the choice is between bendys and Routemasters? I'm sure I remember a few generations of other designs in between and since ... |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
"Chris Read" wrote in message
"Neil Williams" wrote: Read in the Lite today that Moir Lockhead is warning Boris about the plan to reintroduce Routemasters - and is trying to peddle him the "ftr", which is, umm, a glorified bendy bus. Will First never learn? In my experience, their buses in London are some of the oldest, dirtiest and most poorly-maintained. Not a good start. He also said that bus passengers and operators like the bendies - it's other road users (ie cabbies and cyclists, I guess) who detest them. Now the election is over, I fully expect this 'new Routemaster' stuff to be quietly shelved. This would represent the biggest U-turn since.....well......Ken promised never to scrap the Routemaster! I don't think it was just a campaign slogan -- Boris is a cyclist who nurses a personal hatred for bendy buses. It's why it was just about the first policy he was able to articulate, quite a while ago, long before he was supplied with a complete manifesto. While we're not likely to get anything that resembles a good old RM (unless he actually gets some of them back from the scrapyard), I think he really does want to get the bendies off London's streets. |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
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Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
MIG wrote:
No, he is just wrong. Most passengers don't like them either, and I can't believe it's much fun for the drivers except if they are paid more for coping with them. Operators may like the idea of not having to collect fares, but that is independent of the shape of the bus. And don't forget pedestrians, whose crossings are constantly blocked by them. Constantly? Where? Personally, they're just a bloody bus, I don't detest or like them any more than any other bus and regard the way whole furore became the only transport issue ever debated as completely inexplicable. My gut feeling is that the bendies will be put out to pasture when their natural life is up, which may be from about 2012 onwards (I'm assuming average bus life in London as being about ten years, but bendies serving intensive routes may tire faster and I doubt there's a political appetite for spending cash on refurbishment). The replacements should be trams which have the advantages of high capacity and speed of boarding and add greater attraction to switching motorists zero local emissions. The replacements will probably be large numbers of conventional double deckers. Tom |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On Wed, 14 May 2008 13:20:18 -0700 (PDT), MIG
wrote: On May 14, 8:53*pm, "Chris Read" wrote: "Neil Williams" wrote: Read in the Lite today that Moir Lockhead is warning Boris about the plan to reintroduce Routemasters - and is trying to peddle him the "ftr", which is, umm, a glorified bendy bus. Will First never learn? *In my experience, their buses in London are some of the oldest, dirtiest and most poorly-maintained. *Not a good start. He also said that bus passengers and operators like the bendies - it's other road users (ie cabbies and cyclists, I guess) who detest them. No, he is just wrong. Most passengers don't like them either, and I can't believe it's much fun for the drivers except if they are paid more for coping with them. I don't think anyone honestly knows what passengers think about bendy buses. People from both sides of the debate cling to bits of comment, political campaigns and anything else that gets said to justify their respective positions. I think I've read ever possible "for and against" argument there is. I like bendy buses and I think they do have a role in a busy bus network like London's. I don't expect many here to agree with me but hey! Operators may like the idea of not having to collect fares, but that is independent of the shape of the bus. I don't think London operators care very much one way or the other as they are simply contractors. TfL pick up the tab overall - the operators only really carry the day to day safety and operational risks. Farebox revenue risk is with TfL. Now the election is over, I fully expect this 'new Routemaster' stuff to be quietly shelved. This would represent the biggest U-turn since.....well......Ken promised never to scrap the Routemaster! But why should we accept that the choice is between bendys and Routemasters? I'm sure I remember a few generations of other designs in between and since ... Well yes there have been intermediate designs over the years but how many have lasted a full term in use and not been subject to political shenanigans at some point? I'm struggling to think of one - London seems to be cursed in having "controversial" bus designs every 10 years or so that are promoted one minute and scrapped the next. What's the bet that hybrids are the next victim of that trend. Replacement Routemaster vs Bendy Buses have completed Scene One of their great stage act; I dare say we'll move on to Scene Two fairly soon. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
"MIG" wrote: Chris Read wrote: He also said that bus passengers and operators like the bendies - it's other road users (ie cabbies and cyclists, I guess) who detest them. No, he is just wrong. Most passengers don't like them either, and I can't believe it's much fun for the drivers except if they are paid more for coping with them. I like them, but I'm primarily a 'Red Arrow' user, for which routes they are well suited. I haven't noticed a huge clamour to bring back the Leyland Nationals with plastic seats. IIRC, the drivers are paid more. And don't forget pedestrians, whose crossings are constantly blocked by them. Hardly any drivers observe crossing courtesies in London. In my view, bendy drivers are amongst the smoothest and most courteous of bus drivers in London. But why should we accept that the choice is between bendys and Routemasters? I'm sure I remember a few generations of other designs in between and since ... Agreed. But no more Tridents, please........ Chris |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On Wed, 14 May 2008, MIG wrote:
On May 14, 8:53*pm, "Chris Read" wrote: "Neil Williams" wrote: Read in the Lite today that Moir Lockhead is warning Boris about the plan to reintroduce Routemasters - and is trying to peddle him the "ftr", which is, umm, a glorified bendy bus. He also said that bus passengers and operators like the bendies - it's other road users (ie cabbies and cyclists, I guess) who detest them. No, he is just wrong. Most passengers don't like them either, Surveys say otherwise. tom -- THE DRUMMER FROM DEF LEPPARD'S ONLY GOT ONE ARM! |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
Recliner wrote:
While we're not likely to get anything that resembles a good old RM (unless he actually gets some of them back from the scrapyard) Whose idea was it to paint an RM in brown and silver (RM 1933 IIRC)? I saw it today and nearly vomited! |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On May 14, 11:16*pm, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Wed, 14 May 2008, MIG wrote: On May 14, 8:53*pm, "Chris Read" wrote: "Neil Williams" wrote: Read in the Lite today that Moir Lockhead is warning Boris about the plan to reintroduce Routemasters - and is trying to peddle him the "ftr", which is, umm, a glorified bendy bus. He also said that bus passengers and operators like the bendies - it's other road users (ie cabbies and cyclists, I guess) who detest them. No, he is just wrong. *Most passengers don't like them either, Surveys say otherwise. Surveys generally prove what they are designed to prove. Bendy buses are claimed to increase capacity, although I think that claims for standing capacity must be based on how many people sized dummies could be crammed into the volume, rather than whether the space is usable by real people who need to splay out their legs to balance etc. But presumably, if people are asked if they want more capacity and say "yes" they are claimed to be in favour of bendy buses. If they were asked if they prefer to stand for the duration of their bus ride they might not say "yes". My limited survey is based on people I've talked to, which does include at least one who likes them because of they way they deal with bus queues. Is it so impossible to take the features of bendy buses that are perceived to be good, and consider whether they could be incorporated in a design with more seats that doesn't block crossings and junctions and create such a safety hazard? Like is it really necessary to have one-way doors on straight buses but not on bendy buses, now that paying by cash on the bus, rightly or wrongly, has been pretty much phased out? |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On Wed, 14 May 2008 15:55:36 -0700 (PDT), MIG wrote in
, seen in uk.transport.buses: [...] If they were asked if they prefer to stand for the duration of their bus ride they might not say "yes". I'm not honestly sure about this one. I've not travelled on many bendies in London, but I've noticed a tendency (as on the tube) for people to stand rather than sit if they're only going one or two stops, even if there are plenty of seats available - and I'm not referring to standing rather than sitting next to someone, but to standing rather than having a pair of seats to oneself. I think the truth is that human behaviour is far too complex for any simplistic survey (or Usenet thread!) to encompass. -- Ross. * Opinions are my own; my employer has disowned me again. * Reply-to will bounce. Replace the junk-trap with my first name to e-mail me. AD: http://www.merciacharters.co.uk for rail enthusiast tours in Europe |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
In ,
Chris Read typed, for some strange, unexplained reason: : "MIG" wrote: : : Chris Read wrote: : : He also said that bus passengers and operators like the bendies - : it's other : road users (ie cabbies and cyclists, I guess) who detest them. : : No, he is just wrong. Most passengers don't like them either, and I : can't believe it's much fun for the drivers except if they are paid : more for coping with them. : : I like them, but I'm primarily a 'Red Arrow' user, for which routes : they are well suited. I haven't noticed a huge clamour to bring back : the Leyland Nationals with plastic seats. A mate I used to work with once had an ex-LT National, he used to take it to shows; I quite liked driving it, shove it in 2nd and right foot down, away it went. Put it in first and all your passengers ended up on the back seat ;-) : IIRC, the drivers are paid more. Not always, certainly not in the West Midlands. : And don't forget pedestrians, whose crossings are constantly blocked : by them. : : Hardly any drivers observe crossing courtesies in London. In my view, : bendy drivers are amongst the smoothest and most courteous of bus : drivers in London. : : But why should we accept that the choice is between bendys and : Routemasters? I'm sure I remember a few generations of other designs : in between and since ... : : Agreed. But no more Tridents, please........ I'm sure I'm going to regret saying this, but why..? From a driver's point of view, I quite like the Tridents. They're certainly better than a lot of the alternatives, particularly the Volvo B7's which I detest with a passion. Ivor |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
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Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
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Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On Wed, 14 May 2008 15:55:36 -0700 (PDT), MIG
wrote: Like is it really necessary to have one-way doors on straight buses but not on bendy buses, now that paying by cash on the bus, rightly or wrongly, has been pretty much phased out? One way doors on a small bus works very well, IMO. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On May 15, 6:12*am, (Neil Williams)
wrote: On Wed, 14 May 2008 15:55:36 -0700 (PDT), MIG wrote: Like is it really necessary to have one-way doors on straight buses but not on bendy buses, now that paying by cash on the bus, rightly or wrongly, has been pretty much phased out? One way doors on a small bus works very well, IMO. The smallest buses only have one door, so it has to be two-way, as they are on bendys. But recently I experienced a delay because someone, probably used to bendys etc, had taken a buggy into the back door of a straight bus (direct to the available space instead of forcing it through a crowd) and the driver wanted the mother to fight through to the front before proceeding. |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
Ross wrote:
I've not travelled on many bendies in London, but I've noticed a tendency (as on the tube) for people to stand rather than sit if they're only going one or two stops, even if there are plenty of seats available - and I'm not referring to standing rather than sitting next to someone, but to standing rather than having a pair of seats to oneself. I must admit to doing that on both deckers and bendies, especially if carrying any kind of rucksack or similar (which I usually am) as it saves, on a quiet bus, having to remove it. Neil |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
MIG wrote:
Surveys generally prove what they are designed to prove. Bendy buses are claimed to increase capacity, although I think that claims for standing capacity must be based on how many people sized dummies could be crammed into the volume, rather than whether the space is usable by real people who need to splay out their legs to balance etc. In what sense does this differ from Underground trains with transverse seating, the Overground 378s (ditto) and modern light rail vehicles like Tramlink's (quoted capacity 208, which certainly isn't all seated)? It's something of a mistake to see bendy buses as merely a bigger bus, they're more akin to large-scale people movers where some standing at peak times is designed in, in return for speed of pickup/setdown. Tom |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On 15 May, 09:16, Tom Barry wrote:
MIG wrote: Surveys generally prove what they are designed to prove. *Bendy buses are claimed to increase capacity, although I think that claims for standing capacity must be based on how many people sized dummies could be crammed into the volume, rather than whether the space is usable by real people who need to splay out their legs to balance etc. In what sense does this differ from Underground trains with transverse seating, the Overground 378s (ditto) and modern light rail vehicles like Tramlink's (quoted capacity 208, which certainly isn't all seated)? It's something of a mistake to see bendy buses as merely a bigger bus, they're more akin to large-scale people movers where some standing at peak times is designed in, in return for speed of pickup/setdown. Doesn't differ at all. The design of the 376s is rubbish. Well, in parts. The wider gangway is good, because 2 + 3 seating is not very effective, but the space around the doors is appallingly designed and pretty much unusable. Similarly on the Jubilee line. In the meantime, the refurbished 455s on SWT are an example of sensible design, with the same intention, as I've mentioned before. But I strongly question the assumption that volume of space corresponds to the number of people that can actually use the space. Compare Northern and Jubilee lines. On the Northern you have two people sitting in the space where only one person can stand on the Jubilee, because using the flip seats doesn't require the top half of your body to meet obstructions higher up or for you to lean on a seated person's head. |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 10:23:19PM +0100, Tom Barry wrote:
My gut feeling is that the bendies will be put out to pasture when their natural life is up, which may be from about 2012 onwards (I'm assuming average bus life in London as being about ten years ... apart from Routemasters, of course, which were still going strong after as near as damnit 50 years - yes, admittedly with a couple of major refurbs and with regular maintenance, but the only reason that a modern bus wouldn't last 50 years if looked after would be because it's a crap bus built down to a price instead of built to do the job properly. -- David Cantrell | A machine for turning tea into grumpiness More people are driven insane through religious hysteria than by drinking alcohol. -- W C Fields |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
Tom Barry wrote:
In what sense does this differ from Underground trains with transverse seating, the Overground 378s (ditto) and modern light rail vehicles like Tramlink's (quoted capacity 208, which certainly isn't all seated)? It's something of a mistake to see bendy buses as merely a bigger bus, they're more akin to large-scale people movers where some standing at peak times is designed in, in return for speed of pickup/setdown. They're a European design for European style operations, i.e. that the sole purpose of buses is to move a large number of people from somewhere away from a rapid transit rail system to a station on said rail system as quickly as possible. They're less suited to long UK- style "sit-down" suburb to city journeys, but are pretty much perfectly suited to central London operations like the Red Arrows. Neil |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 10:28:42PM +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:
I like bendy buses and I think they do have a role in a busy bus network like London's. I don't expect many here to agree with me but hey! I think they do too, just not on the routes they're currently on (actually I'm only really familiar with the 38 and 73, and then only as far east as Holborn). They'd do better on routes that run along major roads without too many junctions, such as along the Embankment or Euston Road, or out to Heathrow. Where they're not suitable is on twisty high-frequency routes where they block junctions and have difficulty getting around parked vehicles. -- David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david Your call is important to me. To see if it's important to you I'm going to make you wait on hold for five minutes before putting you through to Dave's mobile. This call will be recorded for quality and amusement purposes. |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On 15 May, 11:47, Neil Williams wrote:
Tom Barry wrote: In what sense does this differ from Underground trains with transverse seating, the Overground 378s (ditto) and modern light rail vehicles like Tramlink's (quoted capacity 208, which certainly isn't all seated)? It's something of a mistake to see bendy buses as merely a bigger bus, they're more akin to large-scale people movers where some standing at peak times is designed in, in return for speed of pickup/setdown. They're a European design for European style operations, i.e. that the sole purpose of buses is to move a large number of people from somewhere away from a rapid transit rail system to a station on said rail system as quickly as possible. *They're less suited to long UK- style "sit-down" suburb to city journeys, but are pretty much perfectly suited to central London operations like the Red Arrows. The operations but not the windy, narrow roads. When I cycle I often find myself at places like St Pauls trying to get past overlapping 521s which are managing to block both lanes of the road while diagonally enclosing areas of empty space that nothing can drive into, but leaving too few inches of space at at least one point for a even a bike to squeeze past. |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On May 15, 11:53 am, MIG wrote:
The operations but not the windy, narrow roads. When I cycle I often find myself at places like St Pauls trying to get past overlapping 521s which are managing to block both lanes of the road while diagonally enclosing areas of empty space that nothing can drive into, but leaving too few inches of space at at least one point for a even a bike to squeeze past. Ah, you're a cyclist. Suddenly it all becomes clear... -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On 15 May, 12:10, John B wrote:
On May 15, 11:53 am, MIG wrote: The operations but not the windy, narrow roads. *When I cycle I often find myself at places like St Pauls trying to get past overlapping 521s which are managing to block both lanes of the road while diagonally enclosing areas of empty space that nothing can drive into, but leaving too few inches of space at at least one point for a even a bike to squeeze past. Ah, you're a cyclist. Suddenly it all becomes clear... I'm also a bus passenger and pedestrian (crosser-of-roads) at various times, during which I find that bendy buses are disadvantageous to me compared with other kinds of buses, even if they are preferable to cars and vans. That is, bus drivers may be less likely than van drivers to block pedestrian crossings, but bendy buses are more likely to do so than other buses. To answer an earlier question, I have come up against this problem in Oxford Street, High Holborn, Regent Street, Trafalgar Square ... (By the way, I don't think you can define a person by a thing they do sometimes [or by what they eat or their hair colour ...].) |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On May 15, 1:05 pm, MIG wrote:
That is, bus drivers may be less likely than van drivers to block pedestrian crossings, but bendy buses are more likely to do so than other buses. Thats down to bad drivers, not the bus itself. Using that logic all HGVs should be replaced by 7.5 tonners. As an occasional bus user I much prefer bendy buses - they're easy to get on and off and theres usually plenty of room. Not so on a double decker trying to scoop up the same amount of people and thats before you have to worry about old grannies trying to clamber up and down the hopelessly narrow stairway. B2003 |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On 15 May, 16:55, Boltar wrote:
On May 15, 1:05 pm, MIG wrote: That is, bus drivers may be less likely than van drivers to block pedestrian crossings, but bendy buses are more likely to do so than other buses. Thats down to bad drivers, not the bus itself. Using that logic all HGVs should be replaced by 7.5 tonners. As an occasional bus user I much prefer bendy buses - they're easy to get on and off and theres usually plenty of room. Not so on a double decker trying to scoop up the same amount of people and thats before you have to worry about old grannies trying to clamber up and down the hopelessly narrow stairway. In order to obey the Highway Code, a bendy bus driver has the more difficult task of judging whether there is (or is about to be) a full bendy length of space beyond a crossing or junction. The difficulty of the judgement is increased by the type of bus. If they misjudge, they block the crossing or junction. If they judge correctly (or overcompensate), they will often have to wait through another cycle of lights even though a double decker (or whatever vehicle is trapped behind) could have legitimately gone through and reached the next bus stop while the bendy is now stuck at the next red. |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On May 15, 5:18 pm, MIG wrote:
In order to obey the Highway Code, a bendy bus driver has the more difficult task of judging whether there is (or is about to be) a full bendy length of space beyond a crossing or junction. The difficulty of the judgement is increased by the type of bus. Like I said , its down to the driver. HGV drivers can just the space correctly (most of the time) because they're well trained. If a bus driver can't (or doesn't care if he blocks the junction) then either their training leaves something to be desired or they're not suitable for the job in the first place. B2003 |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
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Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On Thu, 15 May 2008 00:02:59 +0100, Ross wrote:
On Wed, 14 May 2008 15:55:36 -0700 (PDT), MIG wrote in , seen in uk.transport.buses: [...] If they were asked if they prefer to stand for the duration of their bus ride they might not say "yes". I'm not honestly sure about this one. I've not travelled on many bendies in London, but I've noticed a tendency (as on the tube) for people to stand rather than sit if they're only going one or two stops, even if there are plenty of seats available - and I'm not referring to standing rather than sitting next to someone, but to standing rather than having a pair of seats to oneself. Well yes but that also happens on double deckers all the time - in fact probably more now than in the past for some reason. My regular morning bus picks up a lot of people who get off at the first tube station. When I board there is rarely a seat available downstairs but there are seats upstairs (assuming it is not late!). We often get to the point two stops further on where no one else can squeeze on downstairs despite there being seats upstairs or else the bus just goes straight past the stop. While I can understand the logic of not wishing to go upstairs for a few minutes it is actually no real hardship and probably preferable to being pushed, shoved and stomped on by all the other people trying to cram in downstairs. Sometimes the driver will use the automated I-Bus announcement to advise seats are available on the upper deck. I've read somewhere that bendy buses have the same message in their system 8-)) I think the truth is that human behaviour is far too complex for any simplistic survey (or Usenet thread!) to encompass. Possibly - in terms of justification for personal decisions to stand or not to stand. The simple point is that a bit more effort should be made by drivers to "persuade" people to go upstairs. If passenger growth continues then crowding will get worse. -- Paul C Admits to working for London Underground! |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
"Recliner" wrote in message ... "Chris Read" wrote in message "Neil Williams" wrote: Read in the Lite today that Moir Lockhead is warning Boris about the plan to reintroduce Routemasters - and is trying to peddle him the "ftr", which is, umm, a glorified bendy bus. Will First never learn? In my experience, their buses in London are some of the oldest, dirtiest and most poorly-maintained. Not a good start. He also said that bus passengers and operators like the bendies - it's other road users (ie cabbies and cyclists, I guess) who detest them. Now the election is over, I fully expect this 'new Routemaster' stuff to be quietly shelved. This would represent the biggest U-turn since.....well......Ken promised never to scrap the Routemaster! I don't think it was just a campaign slogan -- Boris is a cyclist who nurses a personal hatred for bendy buses. It's why it was just about the first policy he was able to articulate, quite a while ago, long before he was supplied with a complete manifesto. While we're not likely to get anything that resembles a good old RM (unless he actually gets some of them back from the scrapyard), I think he really does want to get the bendies off London's streets. Tonights Standard reporting a bit of back pedalling: http://tinyurl.com/5rn3ug "The Mayor's plans for a newgeneration Routemaster may not happen, his new transport boss admitted today. Kulveer Ranger, Boris Johnson's director of transport policy, said that a design competition would be launched - but if no bid was good enough they would look again at the pledge. He added that although Mr Johnson is very keen to bring in a new-style bus in place of bendy buses, they would not press ahead with the idea for the sake of it." Paul S |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On Thu, 15 May 2008 18:36:02 +0100, "Paul Scott"
wrote: Tonights Standard reporting a bit of back pedalling: http://tinyurl.com/5rn3ug "The Mayor's plans for a newgeneration Routemaster may not happen, his new transport boss admitted today. Kulveer Ranger, Boris Johnson's director of transport policy, said that a design competition would be launched - but if no bid was good enough they would look again at the pledge. He added that although Mr Johnson is very keen to bring in a new-style bus in place of bendy buses, they would not press ahead with the idea for the sake of it." Sounds right for a design competition - unlike a football league, for instance, there's no necessity for there to be a winner. |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On May 15, 5:22*pm, Boltar wrote:
On May 15, 5:18 pm, MIG wrote: In order to obey the Highway Code, a bendy bus driver has the more difficult task of judging whether there is (or is about to be) a full bendy length of space beyond a crossing or junction. *The difficulty of the judgement is increased by the type of bus. Like I said , its down to the driver. HGV drivers can just the space correctly (most of the time) because they're well trained. If a bus driver can't (or doesn't care if he blocks the junction) then either their training leaves something to be desired or they're not suitable for the job in the first place. But if the task is made more difficult, they are still more likely to get it wrong, whether that's incompetence or not. If there were as many HGVs as bendy buses going down Oxford Street and round Trafalgar Sqare, I expect it would cause a lot of problems. |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
"Ivor Jones" wrote: Chris Read wrote Agreed. But no more Tridents, please........ I'm sure I'm going to regret saying this, but why..? From a driver's point of view, I quite like the Tridents. They're certainly better than a lot of the alternatives, particularly the Volvo B7's which I detest with a passion. I'm not a very good (road) traveller, and for some reason, I tend to feel quite nauseous on Tridents if it's warm or if I'm a bit under the weather anyway. The secondary reason is the grab rail on the top deck front windscreen, which is positioned right in my eyeline - a minor irritant, I know, but a persistent one. As a passenger, I prefer most Volvo products. Whatever they use on the number 11 in London is a fine bus - much higher quality feel than the Tridents. I like whatever they use on the number 13s as well - Scanias, I think. Pretty rapid machines when driven enthusiastically! Chris |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On Thu, 15 May 2008 08:55:06 -0700 (PDT), Boltar
wrote: Thats down to bad drivers, not the bus itself. Using that logic all HGVs should be replaced by 7.5 tonners. As an occasional bus user I much prefer bendy buses - they're easy to get on and off and theres usually plenty of room. Not so on a double decker trying to scoop up the same amount of people and thats before you have to worry about old grannies trying to clamber up and down the hopelessly narrow stairway. MX of deckers is that the grannies sit downstairs, leaving upstairs free for those wishing to travel a long way and sit down. The Wrightbus design with the upstairs extractor fan is by far the best design in London, and I hope that (barring any special design for Boris) this becomes the standard. The East Lancs variety (favoured by Transdev) aren't quite as nice, and the Dennis Enviro just feels cheap and crap (like most Dennis products, it would seem). Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On Thu, 15 May 2008 18:43:14 +0100, James Farrar
wrote: Sounds right for a design competition - unlike a football league, for instance, there's no necessity for there to be a winner. It does seem a very sensible view. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
"Neil Williams" wrote: Ross wrote: I've not travelled on many bendies in London, but I've noticed a tendency (as on the tube) for people to stand rather than sit if they're only going one or two stops, even if there are plenty of seats available - and I'm not referring to standing rather than sitting next to someone, but to standing rather than having a pair of seats to oneself. I must admit to doing that on both deckers and bendies, especially if carrying any kind of rucksack or similar (which I usually am) as it saves, on a quiet bus, having to remove it. Same here. Conversely, when I first started work I had a briefcase, and then I tended to sit down where possible. Perhaps rucksacks are responsible for the tendency towards 'standeeism'. On the other hand, the wheelchair/pushchair bay gives a ready-made standing area which didn't exist on older buses. Chris |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
On Thu, 15 May 2008 20:18:30 +0100, "Chris Read"
wrote: Perhaps rucksacks are responsible for the tendency towards 'standeeism'. On the other hand, the wheelchair/pushchair bay gives a ready-made standing area which didn't exist on older buses. True. The nearest convenient alternative on a Routemaster is the side-facing seats by the door, but as I have long legs if I sit there they tend to get in the way. Neil -- Neil Williams Put my first name before the at to reply. |
Moir Lockhead, Routemasters and the bendy bus
In message , Chris Read
writes I'm not a very good (road) traveller, and for some reason, I tend to feel quite nauseous on Tridents if it's warm or if I'm a bit under the weather anyway. The secondary reason is the grab rail on the top deck front windscreen, which is positioned right in my eyeline - a minor irritant, I know, but a persistent one. As a passenger, I prefer most Volvo products. Whatever they use on the number 11 in London is a fine bus - much higher quality feel than the Tridents. I like whatever they use on the number 13s as well - Scanias, I think. Pretty rapid machines when driven enthusiastically! Surely that's a function of the body builder rather than the chassis? They can all have bodies built by Alexander Dennis as they could be East Lancs or Wright. Coincidentally, most Volvos in London are bodied by Wright. -- Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building. You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK (please use the reply to address for email) |
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