In article ,
Paul Stevenson wrote:

"Edward Cowling London UK" wrote in message
...

I'd love to know what the military really think about this.

A deep respect I should imagine!

Survival being a basic human need.

Quite.

I've no experience regarding UXB (and no wish to gain any)
but a few years ago (up in the north of Norway) a was part
of a group which came across a dump of 2cm AA ammunition
of WW2 vintage, much of which was lying in a stream bed.
I took the RNoN bomb disposal squad down to the site the next
day and they (very carefully) removed the shells, together with
a large number more they found in the boskage - all //very//
carefully.
Day after that, the bomb disposal specialist called to say
the items had been destroyed (cooked off in a furnace, as usual
with small stuff) and that they have been /extremely/ (actually,
he didn't say "extremely", he was more emphatic than that) dangerous.
Much of the propellant was crystalline, which meant that a very
small jolt could have set it off.

A bomb that's been sitting in the ground for 60-plus years could
be much more sensitive to vibration than it originally was.
Explosives can get very unstable in their old age. Not nice.

--
Andy Breen ~ Speaking for myself, not the University of Wales
"your suggestion rates at four monkeys for six weeks"
(Peter D. Rieden)

In article ,
Graeme Wall wrote:
In message
Edward Cowling London UK wrote:

Are they though ? I understand that TFL must take public safety as
their first priority, but is a 60 year old bomb that's been in the mud
all that time a credible risk ?

A much greater risk than a brand new bomb. After 60 years the explosives have
parly decomposed and can be very unstable, even a slight knock could set the
thing off.


I think that trains stopped running and London City airport was
disrupted for a rusty canister full of harmless sludge !

You carry on thinking that. Tell you what, next one they find you can
volunteer to deal with it.

But, please, give everyone time to get clear before you start poking
it...

--
Andy Breen, not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales
"The internet, that wonderful tool for bringing us into contact
with things that make us wish we could scrub our brains out with
dental floss.." (Charlie Stross)

In message
Edward Cowling London UK wrote:

In message , Graeme Wall
writes

The military think it is a very dangerous object. There are around a dozen
people killed every year by WW1 munitions dug up on the Western Front in
Northern France and Belgium and the sludge in those rusty canisters is 90
years old.


Really ? I'd love to see the source of info ? There was a TV programme
a few years ago which showed French farmers regularly ploughing up all
sorts of WW1 ordnance and selling the decent stuff.

No one seemed to think it was any threat !


If you paid attention to the TV programme it mentioned the dangers.

--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html

"Edward Cowling London UK" wrote in message
...
In message , Graeme Wall
writes

The military think it is a very dangerous object. There are around a
dozen
people killed every year by WW1 munitions dug up on the Western Front in
Northern France and Belgium and the sludge in those rusty canisters is 90
years old.


Really ? I'd love to see the source of info ? There was a TV programme a
few years ago which showed French farmers regularly ploughing up all sorts
of WW1 ordnance and selling the decent stuff.

No one seemed to think it was any threat !

Edward,

I should stop now.
You are coming over as something of an idiot with a death wish.

Paul

On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 10:35:53 +0100 someone who may be tony sayer
wrote this:-

Yes ... thats the way its spelt...

And it is spelt that way in the 1941 Royal Naval Gunnery Handbook
which is somewhere in my house.

This book also gives the truth about claims that it is only members
of the US armed forces who are trained using cartoons, because they
are unable to read. The end of the first chapter shows a sailor
holding a small projectile, hand gun size. This gets larger at the
end of each subsequent chapter. The end of the last chapter shows
the sailor sitting on a very large projectile.

The best of the cartoons to illustrate particular points is the one
with a caption which goes something like, "do not disconnect
electrical circuits". It shows a sailor with a plug in one hand,
which has been withdrawn from a socket. Out of the socket there is a
flash of lightning, which ends on the sailor's nose. The sailor's
hair, hat, arms and legs are flying out at various angles. Given
that ships had DC electrical supplies at the time this advice was
particularly important.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In article ,
Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
In message , Graeme Wall
writes

The military think it is a very dangerous object. There are around a dozen
people killed every year by WW1 munitions dug up on the Western Front in
Northern France and Belgium and the sludge in those rusty canisters is 90
years old.


Really ? I'd love to see the source of info ? There was a TV programme
a few years ago which showed French farmers regularly ploughing up all
sorts of WW1 ordnance and selling the decent stuff.

No one seemed to think it was any threat !

Hence the twelve-odd people killed each year.

--
Andy Breen ~ Speaking for myself, not the University of Wales
"your suggestion rates at four monkeys for six weeks"
(Peter D. Rieden)

"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
...
In message
Edward Cowling London UK wrote:

In message , Graeme Wall
writes

The military think it is a very dangerous object. There are around a
dozen
people killed every year by WW1 munitions dug up on the Western Front in
Northern France and Belgium and the sludge in those rusty canisters is
90
years old.


Really ? I'd love to see the source of info ? There was a TV programme
a few years ago which showed French farmers regularly ploughing up all
sorts of WW1 ordnance and selling the decent stuff.

No one seemed to think it was any threat !


If you paid attention to the TV programme it mentioned the dangers.

Take a look at this
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/avi...-uxb-3148.html

Paul

In message , Andrew Robert Breen
writes

A bomb that's been sitting in the ground for 60-plus years could
be much more sensitive to vibration than it originally was.
Explosives can get very unstable in their old age. Not nice.

They used AMATOL then, which doesn't have a long shelf life and isn't in
any way water proof. 60+ years buried in mud and you don't have a hair
trigger device..... you have a rusty cylinder full of sludge :-)

When they find the next I'll gladly drive the truck to the dump.

--
Edward Cowling "Must Go - Eldrad Must Live !!"

On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 10:22:33 +0100 someone who may be Edward Cowling
London UK wrote this:-

A policeman on the local television news yesterday was stressing just
how potentially dangerous this bomb was, a

Are they though ? I understand that TFL must take public safety as
their first priority, but is a 60 year old bomb that's been in the mud
all that time a credible risk ?

The military still study these old things, in order to be aware of
what is inside them, how they work, what is likely to have happened
to them while they laid undisturbed and what might happen to them
when disturbed. They do this in order to minimise the chances of
being blown up when they approach and then remove them. It takes a
fair amount of courage to walk up to something like that, rather
than get behind cover. It is not possible to argue with explosives,
they do not listen to reason.

It may be that this particular bomb could have been lifted up onto a
lorry and taken away for disposal, not in a rubbish tip. However, it
is at least as possible that had they done this it would have gone
bang at some time in the procedure. Would you have liked to be
taking part in this operation and wondering if every second was
about to be your last? Far better to explode it in situ, or if that
was not possible as in this case disrupt it so that it is less
likely to go bang and then remove it for disposal.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Sat, 07 Jun 2008 12:01:46 +0100 someone who may be
(Andrew Robert Breen) wrote this:-

I think that trains stopped running and London City airport was
disrupted for a rusty canister full of harmless sludge !

You carry on thinking that. Tell you what, next one they find you can
volunteer to deal with it.

But, please, give everyone time to get clear before you start poking
it...

Indeed. Also get personal affairs and funeral sorted out. There
might not be much to bury, so cremation of a largely empty coffin is
probably the best option if an eco-funeral does not appeal.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54