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Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
"World War II bomb to be exploded"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7439249.stm ---quote--- An explosion will be carried out on a World War II bomb that continues to disrupt travel in east London. The large bomb was found in a river at Sugar House Lane, near Bromley- by-Bow Tube station on Monday. It will be defused after a "small" explosion by 15 Royal Engineers experts. Earlier this week the bomb began ticking as they approached it. [...] The 1,000kg (2,200lb) device was the largest unexploded World War II bomb to be found in central London for 30 years. A 200m (656ft) cordon is in place around the bomb and its discovery has disrupted rush-hour travel since Monday. [continues...] ---/quote--- As the article indicates, bomb disposal experts have been trying to deal with this overnight since Monday, in an attempt to limit disruption on the adjacent Underground (District & H&C) and c2c lines. However it looks like they've made the decision to deal with it once and for all. I understand that early and late Underground and c2c services have been cancelled over the past few days, and now all Underground services are suspended between Plaistow and Whitechapel whilst c2c services are suspended between Barking and Fenchurch Street. The bomb meanwhile was found in the mud in one of the waterways at Three Mills. It was discovered as a result of works going on to upgrade these waterways so they can be used to deliver construction materials to the Olympic Park site a bit further north. One wonders just how many more unexploded wartime bombs might be found on the Olympic site, in particular in the many waterways that run through the site. A policeman on the local television news yesterday was stressing just how potentially dangerous this bomb was, and was also full of praise for another guy (I presume one of the bomb disposal team) who had earlier gone back to inspect the bomb four times despite its highly dangerous condition (I think this was after it had started ticking). |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
On 6 Jun, 09:31, Mizter T wrote:
"World War II bomb to be exploded"http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7439249.stm ---quote--- An explosion will be carried out on a World War II bomb that continues to disrupt travel in east London. The large bomb was found in a river at Sugar House Lane, near Bromley- by-Bow Tube station on Monday. It will be defused after a "small" explosion by 15 Royal Engineers experts. Earlier this week the bomb began ticking as they approached it. [...] The 1,000kg (2,200lb) device was the largest unexploded World War II bomb to be found in central London for 30 years. A 200m (656ft) cordon is in place around the bomb and its discovery has disrupted rush-hour travel since Monday. [continues...] ---/quote--- As the article indicates, bomb disposal experts have been trying to deal with this overnight since Monday, in an attempt to limit disruption on the adjacent Underground (District & H&C) and c2c lines. However it looks like they've made the decision to deal with it once and for all. I understand that early and late Underground and c2c services have been cancelled over the past few days, and now all Underground services are suspended between Plaistow and Whitechapel whilst c2c services are suspended between Barking and Fenchurch Street. The bomb meanwhile was found in the mud in one of the waterways at Three Mills. It was discovered as a result of works going on to upgrade these waterways so they can be used to deliver construction materials to the Olympic Park site a bit further north. One wonders just how many more unexploded wartime bombs might be found on the Olympic site, in particular in the many waterways that run through the site. A policeman on the local television news yesterday was stressing just how potentially dangerous this bomb was, and was also full of praise for another guy (I presume one of the bomb disposal team) who had earlier gone back to inspect the bomb four times despite its highly dangerous condition (I think this was after it had started ticking). Rather than saying the bomb had started ticketing I suspect more accurate way of describing it is to say that the fuse appeared to have been armed / activated. I'm afraid I'm not much of an expert in unexploded ordinance so whilst it did sound rather odd for all I know the bomb was/is actually ticking. Contributions of those more knowledgeable in these matters are of course welcome! |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
On 6 Jun, 09:39, Mizter T wrote:
Rather than saying the bomb had started ticketing Was there a previous tendency of users of the adjacent lines to avoid ticketed travel? :) -- gordon |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
In message
, at 01:31:15 on Fri, 6 Jun 2008, Mizter T remarked: One wonders just how many more unexploded wartime bombs might be found on the Olympic site, in particular in the many waterways that run through the site. They won't find any more on land if they've finished digging up the site and are now building on top. I wonder if any pile-drivers have ever set off a UXB, though. The ones in the water will be found if there are any additional dredging works. -- Roland Perry |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
In message
Mizter T wrote: Rather than saying the bomb had started ticketing I suspect more accurate way of describing it is to say that the fuse appeared to have been armed / activated. I'm afraid I'm not much of an expert in unexploded ordinance so whilst it did sound rather odd for all I know the bomb was/is actually ticking. Contributions of those more knowledgeable in these matters are of course welcome! Assuming it had a delayed action fuse, these were often clockwork so it is quite possible that the bomb did start ticking if the mechanism restarted after being moved slightly. Doubtless there will be a few more as the Olympic works continue. Some years ago I was told by a bomb-disposal expert that something like 30% of the munitions dropped and fired in WW2 didn't explode when expected. -- Graeme Wall This address is not read, substitute trains for rail. Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
On 6 Jun, 09:58, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 01:31:15 on Fri, 6 Jun 2008, Mizter T remarked: One wonders just how many more unexploded wartime bombs might be found on the Olympic site, in particular in the many waterways that run through the site. They won't find any more on land if they've finished digging up the site and are now building on top. Er, whilst I'm not sure on the latest I think the site has now been cleared but I'm wouldn't think that necessarily precludes more digging (for foundations etc). I wonder if any pile-drivers have ever set off a UXB, though. The ones in the water will be found if there are any additional dredging works. I think there's a far bit more work on the waterways both within and without the Olympic Park site to be done (note that this bomb is actually outside the boundary of the Park). |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
On 6 Jun, 09:47, " wrote: On 6 Jun, 09:39, Mizter T wrote: Rather than saying the bomb had started ticketing Was there a previous tendency of users of the adjacent lines to avoid ticketed travel? :) Ha! Er... yes! |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
In message
, at 02:47:06 on Fri, 6 Jun 2008, Mizter T remarked: One wonders just how many more unexploded wartime bombs might be found on the Olympic site, in particular in the many waterways that run through the site. They won't find any more on land if they've finished digging up the site and are now building on top. Er, whilst I'm not sure on the latest I think the site has now been cleared So they probably won't fin any more on that land but I'm wouldn't think that necessarily precludes more digging (for foundations etc). But they might on that land. I wonder if any pile-drivers have ever set off a UXB, though. The ones in the water will be found if there are any additional dredging works. I think there's a far bit more work on the waterways both within and without the Olympic Park site to be done (note that this bomb is actually outside the boundary of the Park). -- Roland Perry |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 01:39:51 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be Mizter T
wrote this:- Rather than saying the bomb had started ticketing I suspect more accurate way of describing it is to say that the fuse appeared to have been armed / activated. I'm afraid I'm not much of an expert in unexploded ordinance so whilst it did sound rather odd for all I know the bomb was/is actually ticking. It could have started ticking as they approached it, though I suspect this is a bit of journalistic hyperbole. Apart from anything else, how would they know whether it was ticking or not before they approached it? Is the cat alive or dead inside the box before one opens it? Some bombs of that era were equipped with mechanical timer mechanisms, the common phrase for them being a delayed action bomb, amongst other fuzes. IIRC these were started by the impact of the bomb hitting something, if they failed to start then hitting the bomb with something or jolting it could start the mechanism. They could be heard ticking with a stethoscope and, if the mechanism contained magnetisable parts, discouraged from ticking with a magnetic clock-stopper. I think corrosion would have had an effect on the mechanism since it was dropped. However, corrosion would have affected all fuzing mechanisms and possibly made them more unstable than in the 1940s, though it is equally possible that corrosion has made them more stable and would prevent the bomb exploding. It all depends on the materials used and due to shortages the Germans used some undesirable materials at times (for example steel cartridge cases rather than brass). The best approach is presumably to blow the thing up in situ, but where this is not possible (for example this would damage things surrounding the bomb) then just disrupt the fuzes to prevent them activating if they are still capable of doing so and then move the (now rather less dangerous) bomb somewhere suitable to blow it up. The bomb disposal people have favourite places to take things to blow them up. A few years ago I arrived at an old fort just as the Royal Navy were leaving after they had blown some things up in a secluded location, which was perhaps chosen partly because the sound would not be heard on land due to the surrounding cliffs/hills. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
Graeme Wall wrote:
Doubtless there will be a few more as the Olympic works continue. Some years ago I was told by a bomb-disposal expert that something like 30% of the munitions dropped and fired in WW2 didn't explode when expected. There are many thousands of known unexploded bombs throughout the Country, with hundreds in Greater London. The location is even detailed in some cases - e.g. 'In backyard of 13 Wester Road'. See this site for a quick list of known bombs: http://www.contaminatedland.co.uk/sere-dip/estd-uxb.htm Other sites go into more details. Alan -- To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'. |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 19:44:42 +0100, (A.Lee) wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote: Doubtless there will be a few more as the Olympic works continue. Some years ago I was told by a bomb-disposal expert that something like 30% of the munitions dropped and fired in WW2 didn't explode when expected. There are many thousands of known unexploded bombs throughout the Country, with hundreds in Greater London. The location is even detailed in some cases - e.g. 'In backyard of 13 Wester Road'. See this site for a quick list of known bombs: http://www.contaminatedland.co.uk/sere-dip/estd-uxb.htm Other sites go into more details. In the less-bombed areas, looking at a local authority's "bomb map" will sometimes reveal worrying gaps where nothing is marked along the course where a string of bombs was recorded. |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
"David Hansen" wrote in message ... On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 01:39:51 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be Mizter T wrote this:- Rather than saying the bomb had started ticketing I suspect more accurate way of describing it is to say that the fuse appeared to have been armed / activated. I'm afraid I'm not much of an expert in unexploded ordinance so whilst it did sound rather odd for all I know the bomb was/is actually ticking. It could have started ticking as they approached it, though I suspect this is a bit of journalistic hyperbole. Apart from anything else, how would they know whether it was ticking or not before they approached it? Is the cat alive or dead inside the box before one opens it? Some bombs of that era were equipped with mechanical timer mechanisms, the common phrase for them being a delayed action bomb, amongst other fuzes. IIRC these were started by the impact of the bomb hitting something, if they failed to start then hitting the bomb with something or jolting it could start the mechanism. They could be heard ticking with a stethoscope and, if the mechanism contained magnetisable parts, discouraged from ticking with a magnetic clock-stopper. I think corrosion would have had an effect on the mechanism since it was dropped. However, corrosion would have affected all fuzing mechanisms and possibly made them more unstable than in the 1940s, though it is equally possible that corrosion has made them more stable and would prevent the bomb exploding. It all depends on the materials used and due to shortages the Germans used some undesirable materials at times (for example steel cartridge cases rather than brass). The best approach is presumably to blow the thing up in situ, but where this is not possible (for example this would damage things surrounding the bomb) then just disrupt the fuzes to prevent them activating if they are still capable of doing so and then move the (now rather less dangerous) bomb somewhere suitable to blow it up. The bomb disposal people have favourite places to take things to blow them up. A few years ago I arrived at an old fort just as the Royal Navy were leaving after they had blown some things up in a secluded location, which was perhaps chosen partly because the sound would not be heard on land due to the surrounding cliffs/hills. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 Would those fuzes actually ne fuses? |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
In message
, Mizter T writes A policeman on the local television news yesterday was stressing just how potentially dangerous this bomb was, a Are they though ? I understand that TFL must take public safety as their first priority, but is a 60 year old bomb that's been in the mud all that time a credible risk ? I think that trains stopped running and London City airport was disrupted for a rusty canister full of harmless sludge ! I'd love to know what the military really think about this. -- Edward Cowling "Must Go - Eldrad Must Live !!" |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
Would those fuzes actually ne fuses?
Yes ... thats the way its spelt... http://www.army-technology.com/contr...tion/junghans/ -- Tony Sayer |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
"Edward Cowling London UK" wrote in message ... I'd love to know what the military really think about this. A deep respect I should imagine! Survival being a basic human need. Paul |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
In message
Edward Cowling London UK wrote: In message , Mizter T writes A policeman on the local television news yesterday was stressing just how potentially dangerous this bomb was, a Are they though ? I understand that TFL must take public safety as their first priority, but is a 60 year old bomb that's been in the mud all that time a credible risk ? A much greater risk than a brand new bomb. After 60 years the explosives have parly decomposed and can be very unstable, even a slight knock could set the thing off. I think that trains stopped running and London City airport was disrupted for a rusty canister full of harmless sludge ! You carry on thinking that. Tell you what, next one they find you can volunteer to deal with it. I'd love to know what the military really think about this. The military think it is a very dangerous object. There are around a dozen people killed every year by WW1 munitions dug up on the Western Front in Northern France and Belgium and the sludge in those rusty canisters is 90 years old. -- Graeme Wall This address is not read, substitute trains for rail. Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
In message , Paul Stevenson
writes "Edward Cowling London UK" wrote in message ... I'd love to know what the military really think about this. A deep respect I should imagine! Survival being a basic human need. It's a serious point that all that disruption could have probably been cured by carting it off on a truck to the nearest dump :-) -- Edward Cowling "Must Go - Eldrad Must Live !!" |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
In message , Graeme Wall
writes The military think it is a very dangerous object. There are around a dozen people killed every year by WW1 munitions dug up on the Western Front in Northern France and Belgium and the sludge in those rusty canisters is 90 years old. Really ? I'd love to see the source of info ? There was a TV programme a few years ago which showed French farmers regularly ploughing up all sorts of WW1 ordnance and selling the decent stuff. No one seemed to think it was any threat ! -- Edward Cowling "Must Go - Eldrad Must Live !!" |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
"Edward Cowling London UK" wrote It's a serious point that all that disruption could have probably been cured by carting it off on a truck to the nearest dump :-) But much less than the disruption which would have been caused if someone had tried that and it went off, doing major damage to the LUL and c2c lines, as well as to a lot of property over a wide area. Peter |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
In article ,
Paul Stevenson wrote: "Edward Cowling London UK" wrote in message ... I'd love to know what the military really think about this. A deep respect I should imagine! Survival being a basic human need. Quite. I've no experience regarding UXB (and no wish to gain any) but a few years ago (up in the north of Norway) a was part of a group which came across a dump of 2cm AA ammunition of WW2 vintage, much of which was lying in a stream bed. I took the RNoN bomb disposal squad down to the site the next day and they (very carefully) removed the shells, together with a large number more they found in the boskage - all //very// carefully. Day after that, the bomb disposal specialist called to say the items had been destroyed (cooked off in a furnace, as usual with small stuff) and that they have been /extremely/ (actually, he didn't say "extremely", he was more emphatic than that) dangerous. Much of the propellant was crystalline, which meant that a very small jolt could have set it off. A bomb that's been sitting in the ground for 60-plus years could be much more sensitive to vibration than it originally was. Explosives can get very unstable in their old age. Not nice. -- Andy Breen ~ Speaking for myself, not the University of Wales "your suggestion rates at four monkeys for six weeks" (Peter D. Rieden) |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
In article ,
Graeme Wall wrote: In message Edward Cowling London UK wrote: Are they though ? I understand that TFL must take public safety as their first priority, but is a 60 year old bomb that's been in the mud all that time a credible risk ? A much greater risk than a brand new bomb. After 60 years the explosives have parly decomposed and can be very unstable, even a slight knock could set the thing off. I think that trains stopped running and London City airport was disrupted for a rusty canister full of harmless sludge ! You carry on thinking that. Tell you what, next one they find you can volunteer to deal with it. But, please, give everyone time to get clear before you start poking it... -- Andy Breen, not speaking on behalf of the University of Wales "The internet, that wonderful tool for bringing us into contact with things that make us wish we could scrub our brains out with dental floss.." (Charlie Stross) |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
In message
Edward Cowling London UK wrote: In message , Graeme Wall writes The military think it is a very dangerous object. There are around a dozen people killed every year by WW1 munitions dug up on the Western Front in Northern France and Belgium and the sludge in those rusty canisters is 90 years old. Really ? I'd love to see the source of info ? There was a TV programme a few years ago which showed French farmers regularly ploughing up all sorts of WW1 ordnance and selling the decent stuff. No one seemed to think it was any threat ! If you paid attention to the TV programme it mentioned the dangers. -- Graeme Wall This address is not read, substitute trains for rail. Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
"Edward Cowling London UK" wrote in message ... In message , Graeme Wall writes The military think it is a very dangerous object. There are around a dozen people killed every year by WW1 munitions dug up on the Western Front in Northern France and Belgium and the sludge in those rusty canisters is 90 years old. Really ? I'd love to see the source of info ? There was a TV programme a few years ago which showed French farmers regularly ploughing up all sorts of WW1 ordnance and selling the decent stuff. No one seemed to think it was any threat ! Edward, I should stop now. You are coming over as something of an idiot with a death wish. Paul |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 10:35:53 +0100 someone who may be tony sayer
wrote this:- Yes ... thats the way its spelt... And it is spelt that way in the 1941 Royal Naval Gunnery Handbook which is somewhere in my house. This book also gives the truth about claims that it is only members of the US armed forces who are trained using cartoons, because they are unable to read. The end of the first chapter shows a sailor holding a small projectile, hand gun size. This gets larger at the end of each subsequent chapter. The end of the last chapter shows the sailor sitting on a very large projectile. The best of the cartoons to illustrate particular points is the one with a caption which goes something like, "do not disconnect electrical circuits". It shows a sailor with a plug in one hand, which has been withdrawn from a socket. Out of the socket there is a flash of lightning, which ends on the sailor's nose. The sailor's hair, hat, arms and legs are flying out at various angles. Given that ships had DC electrical supplies at the time this advice was particularly important. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
In article ,
Edward Cowling London UK wrote: In message , Graeme Wall writes The military think it is a very dangerous object. There are around a dozen people killed every year by WW1 munitions dug up on the Western Front in Northern France and Belgium and the sludge in those rusty canisters is 90 years old. Really ? I'd love to see the source of info ? There was a TV programme a few years ago which showed French farmers regularly ploughing up all sorts of WW1 ordnance and selling the decent stuff. No one seemed to think it was any threat ! Hence the twelve-odd people killed each year. -- Andy Breen ~ Speaking for myself, not the University of Wales "your suggestion rates at four monkeys for six weeks" (Peter D. Rieden) |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
"Graeme Wall" wrote in message ... In message Edward Cowling London UK wrote: In message , Graeme Wall writes The military think it is a very dangerous object. There are around a dozen people killed every year by WW1 munitions dug up on the Western Front in Northern France and Belgium and the sludge in those rusty canisters is 90 years old. Really ? I'd love to see the source of info ? There was a TV programme a few years ago which showed French farmers regularly ploughing up all sorts of WW1 ordnance and selling the decent stuff. No one seemed to think it was any threat ! If you paid attention to the TV programme it mentioned the dangers. Take a look at this http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/avi...-uxb-3148.html Paul |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
In message , Andrew Robert Breen
writes A bomb that's been sitting in the ground for 60-plus years could be much more sensitive to vibration than it originally was. Explosives can get very unstable in their old age. Not nice. They used AMATOL then, which doesn't have a long shelf life and isn't in any way water proof. 60+ years buried in mud and you don't have a hair trigger device..... you have a rusty cylinder full of sludge :-) When they find the next I'll gladly drive the truck to the dump. -- Edward Cowling "Must Go - Eldrad Must Live !!" |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 10:22:33 +0100 someone who may be Edward Cowling
London UK wrote this:- A policeman on the local television news yesterday was stressing just how potentially dangerous this bomb was, a Are they though ? I understand that TFL must take public safety as their first priority, but is a 60 year old bomb that's been in the mud all that time a credible risk ? The military still study these old things, in order to be aware of what is inside them, how they work, what is likely to have happened to them while they laid undisturbed and what might happen to them when disturbed. They do this in order to minimise the chances of being blown up when they approach and then remove them. It takes a fair amount of courage to walk up to something like that, rather than get behind cover. It is not possible to argue with explosives, they do not listen to reason. It may be that this particular bomb could have been lifted up onto a lorry and taken away for disposal, not in a rubbish tip. However, it is at least as possible that had they done this it would have gone bang at some time in the procedure. Would you have liked to be taking part in this operation and wondering if every second was about to be your last? Far better to explode it in situ, or if that was not possible as in this case disrupt it so that it is less likely to go bang and then remove it for disposal. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
On Sat, 07 Jun 2008 12:01:46 +0100 someone who may be
(Andrew Robert Breen) wrote this:- I think that trains stopped running and London City airport was disrupted for a rusty canister full of harmless sludge ! You carry on thinking that. Tell you what, next one they find you can volunteer to deal with it. But, please, give everyone time to get clear before you start poking it... Indeed. Also get personal affairs and funeral sorted out. There might not be much to bury, so cremation of a largely empty coffin is probably the best option if an eco-funeral does not appeal. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
In message , Graeme Wall
writes In message Edward Cowling London UK wrote: In message , Graeme Wall writes The military think it is a very dangerous object. There are around a dozen people killed every year by WW1 munitions dug up on the Western Front in Northern France and Belgium and the sludge in those rusty canisters is 90 years old. Really ? I'd love to see the source of info ? There was a TV programme a few years ago which showed French farmers regularly ploughing up all sorts of WW1 ordnance and selling the decent stuff. No one seemed to think it was any threat ! If you paid attention to the TV programme it mentioned the dangers. Sources ? I can say tins of Tapioca pudding should be treated with extreme caution :-) -- Edward Cowling "Must Go - Eldrad Must Live !!" |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
In message , Paul Stevenson
writes "Edward Cowling London UK" wrote in message ... In message , Graeme Wall writes The military think it is a very dangerous object. There are around a dozen people killed every year by WW1 munitions dug up on the Western Front in Northern France and Belgium and the sludge in those rusty canisters is 90 years old. Really ? I'd love to see the source of info ? There was a TV programme a few years ago which showed French farmers regularly ploughing up all sorts of WW1 ordnance and selling the decent stuff. No one seemed to think it was any threat ! Edward, I should stop now. You are coming over as something of an idiot with a death wish. Just maybe you worry I might be right ? :-) Yes the authorities need to be seen to be going through the usual headless chicken routine. But the media love all this stuff and I honestly wonder if 2 guys with a crane from the municipal dump could have dealt with it just as well and with no disruption. When was the last time one if these thing actually went off ? -- Edward Cowling "Must Go - Eldrad Must Live !!" |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
In message , Andrew Robert Breen
writes In article , Edward Cowling London UK wrote: In message , Graeme Wall writes The military think it is a very dangerous object. There are around a dozen people killed every year by WW1 munitions dug up on the Western Front in Northern France and Belgium and the sludge in those rusty canisters is 90 years old. Really ? I'd love to see the source of info ? There was a TV programme a few years ago which showed French farmers regularly ploughing up all sorts of WW1 ordnance and selling the decent stuff. No one seemed to think it was any threat ! Hence the twelve-odd people killed each year. From Tapioca related deaths you mean ? Yes it's awful and someone should put a stop to it :-) -- Edward Cowling "Must Go - Eldrad Must Live !!" |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
"David Hansen" wrote in message ... On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 10:22:33 +0100 someone who may be Edward Cowling London UK wrote this:- A policeman on the local television news yesterday was stressing just how potentially dangerous this bomb was, a Are they though ? I understand that TFL must take public safety as their first priority, but is a 60 year old bomb that's been in the mud all that time a credible risk ? The military still study these old things, in order to be aware of what is inside them, how they work, what is likely to have happened to them while they laid undisturbed and what might happen to them when disturbed. They do this in order to minimise the chances of being blown up when they approach and then remove them. It takes a fair amount of courage to walk up to something like that, rather than get behind cover. It is not possible to argue with explosives, they do not listen to reason. It may be that this particular bomb could have been lifted up onto a lorry and taken away for disposal, not in a rubbish tip. However, it is at least as possible that had they done this it would have gone bang at some time in the procedure. Would you have liked to be taking part in this operation and wondering if every second was about to be your last? Far better to explode it in situ, or if that was not possible as in this case disrupt it so that it is less likely to go bang and then remove it for disposal. Interesting data on WW2 German bombs he- http://reviews.ebay.co.uk/Bomb-Fuzes...00000001177383 Jim Hawkins |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
Graeme Wall wrote:
The military think it is a very dangerous object. There are around a dozen people killed every year by WW1 munitions dug up on the Western Front in Northern France and Belgium and the sludge in those rusty canisters is 90 years old. There was also the danger that this particular one was sitting on top of a gas main. Actually, if I'm not mistaken, wasn't the location of this one almost exactly upon the site of the original "Big Brother" house, that they used for the first couple of years, before relocating to Elstree? |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
On Jun 7, 12:57*pm, "Jack Taylor" wrote:
Graeme Wall wrote: The military think it is a very dangerous object. *There are around a dozen people killed every year by WW1 munitions dug up on the Western Front in Northern France and Belgium and the sludge in those rusty canisters is 90 years old. There was also the danger that this particular one was sitting on top of a gas main. Actually, if I'm not mistaken, wasn't the location of this one almost exactly upon the site of the original "Big Brother" house, that they used for the first couple of years, before relocating to Elstree? Never mind; with a bit of luck there's one in Elstree as well, likely to be set off by screaming. |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 12:42:17 +0100 someone who may be Edward Cowling
London UK wrote this:- When was the last time one if these thing actually went off ? 29th April, probably. http://www.eveningstar.co.uk/content/eveningstar/news/story.aspx?brand=ESTOnline&category=news&tBrand=es tonline&tCategory=News&itemid=IPED29%20Apr%202008% 2018%3A12%3A49%3A470 -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 12:49:36 +0100 someone who may be "Jim Hawkins"
wrote this:- Interesting data on WW2 German bombs he- http://reviews.ebay.co.uk/Bomb-Fuzes...00000001177383 Thanks. The only thing I would add is to the entry, "23 rd November 1939 Lt Cmdr Ouvery recovers first magnetic mine at Shoeburyness,and successfuly defuzes it." The Germans had delayed laying their "secret weapon" for some weeks because they were worried that its secrets would eventually be revealed to the British. When the Royal Navy examined this "secret weapon", after extracting it from the mine, they were mildly amused. The method of operation was similar to the fuze the RN had designed in the First World War. Because of its deficiencies they had soon abandoned the method, ISTR before the end of the First World War. -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
In message
Edward Cowling London UK wrote: In message , Paul Stevenson writes "Edward Cowling London UK" wrote in message ... In message , Graeme Wall writes The military think it is a very dangerous object. There are around a dozen people killed every year by WW1 munitions dug up on the Western Front in Northern France and Belgium and the sludge in those rusty canisters is 90 years old. Really ? I'd love to see the source of info ? There was a TV programme a few years ago which showed French farmers regularly ploughing up all sorts of WW1 ordnance and selling the decent stuff. No one seemed to think it was any threat ! Edward, I should stop now. You are coming over as something of an idiot with a death wish. Just maybe you worry I might be right ? :-) Yes the authorities need to be seen to be going through the usual headless chicken routine. But the media love all this stuff and I honestly wonder if 2 guys with a crane from the municipal dump could have dealt with it just as well and with no disruption. When was the last time one if these thing actually went off ? Fortunately it doesn't happen very often because, unlike you, the bomb disposal people know what they are*doing. However the chances are that one has gone off accidentally in the last month. -- Graeme Wall This address is not read, substitute trains for rail. Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html |
Large UXB in Bromley-by-Bow
In message
Edward Cowling London UK wrote: In message , Andrew Robert Breen writes A bomb that's been sitting in the ground for 60-plus years could be much more sensitive to vibration than it originally was. Explosives can get very unstable in their old age. Not nice. They used AMATOL then, which doesn't have a long shelf life and isn't in any way water proof. 60+ years buried in mud and you don't have a hair trigger device..... you have a rusty cylinder full of sludge :-) When they find the next I'll gladly drive the truck to the dump. Any preference for flowers? -- Graeme Wall This address is not read, substitute trains for rail. Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html |
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