On Jun 29, 8:34*am, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 23:42:54 +0100, Paul Corfield

wrote:
Your final option - updated coding on first entry - is correct. All
tickets and smartcards are updated whenever there is a valid transaction
at a ticket vending or validation device.

Except National Rail barriers, surely? *I was fairly sure they were a
read-only technology. *Or is it just understood that they'll probably
end up used on the Tube first anyway, otherwise they'd have probably
been bought from a mainline ticket office instead?

Similarly, does a Tube barrier write to a NR-encoded Travelcard?
Again, I thought it couldn't.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

I believe both NR and LUL use the same encoding system. NR/LUL
barriers have to write (time and point of entry, etc) to the magstripe
even for ordinary singles, to prevent "passback" (a ticket being
handed back over the barrier for a second passenger to use).

DRH

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:34:11 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 23:42:54 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:

Your final option - updated coding on first entry - is correct. All
tickets and smartcards are updated whenever there is a valid transaction
at a ticket vending or validation device.

Except National Rail barriers, surely? I was fairly sure they were a
read-only technology. Or is it just understood that they'll probably
end up used on the Tube first anyway, otherwise they'd have probably
been bought from a mainline ticket office instead?

Similarly, does a Tube barrier write to a NR-encoded Travelcard?
Again, I thought it couldn't.

I'm not going in to a huge explanation on usenet about coding. Needless
to say valid tickets are encoded by gates at NR and LU locations
regardless of where the encoded ticket was issued. The system of
checking could not work properly if that were not the case. Valid
Oyster cards, similarly, are updated regardless of where they were
bought, had value added or what validation device is reading / writing
to them.

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On 29 Jun, 08:52, DRH wrote:
On Jun 29, 8:34 am, (Neil Williams)
wrote:



On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 23:42:54 +0100, Paul Corfield

wrote:
Your final option - updated coding on first entry - is correct. All
tickets and smartcards are updated whenever there is a valid transaction
at a ticket vending or validation device.

Except National Rail barriers, surely? I was fairly sure they were a
read-only technology. Or is it just understood that they'll probably
end up used on the Tube first anyway, otherwise they'd have probably
been bought from a mainline ticket office instead?

Similarly, does a Tube barrier write to a NR-encoded Travelcard?
Again, I thought it couldn't.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

I believe both NR and LUL use the same encoding system. NR/LUL
barriers have to write (time and point of entry, etc) to the magstripe
even for ordinary singles, to prevent "passback" (a ticket being
handed back over the barrier for a second passenger to use)

Thats easily bypassed - carry a magnet , go through the barrier , wipe
the stripe with said magnet , pass back to mate who then goes to bloke
at gate and looks innocent saying his ticket doesn't work. Bloke
checks ticket, shrugs shoulders and lets mate through. This would
probably work 99% of the time without the magnet but sometimes they
used to check the ticket with a machine.

B2003

On 28 Jun, 20:43, "tim....." wrote:
"Scott" wrote in message

...



On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 06:40:06 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

I could hardly believe, last week, when I tried to buy a One Day
Travelcard at my local newsgent, who had sold them for many years,
that they are no longer available there! The equipment, he told me, as
I could see, had been removed and all he can now do is add credit to
Oyster cards, or sell weekly etc. tickets on Oyster.

This is an outrageous scam by T.F.L., which means I now would now lose
£1 credit on my Oyster in order to get a bus to my local station which
is, presumably, the only place I can now buy a One Day Travelcard.
Does anyone know why one can't get a One Day Travelcard on Oyster?

It's funny that bus drivers don't even seem to know that this is now
the case, since my father when he tried bought a ticket on the bus one
morning was told by the driver that it would be cheaper for him to by
a One Day Bus Pass at the same newsagents!

M.M.

Why do you need a One Day Travelcard?

Because you are going on National Rail.

Probably about 50% of people have to do this each day.

tim

Since there are more passengers on the underground every day than on
the whole national rail network across Britain, I'm quite sure it's a
lot less than 50%.

Anyway, as has been said, this is a shop owner not understanding the
equpment, not TfL scamming you.

On 29 Jun, 10:16, sweek wrote:
On 28 Jun, 20:43, "tim....." wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message

.. .

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 06:40:06 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

I could hardly believe, last week, when I tried to buy a One Day
Travelcard at my local newsgent, who had sold them for many years,
that they are no longer available there! The equipment, he told me, as
I could see, had been removed and all he can now do is add credit to
Oyster cards, or sell weekly etc. tickets on Oyster.

This is an outrageous scam by T.F.L., which means I now would now lose
£1 credit on my Oyster in order to get a bus to my local station which
is, presumably, the only place I can now buy a One Day Travelcard.
Does anyone know why one can't get a One Day Travelcard on Oyster?

It's funny that bus drivers don't even seem to know that this is now
the case, since my father when he tried bought a ticket on the bus one
morning was told by the driver that it would be cheaper for him to by
a One Day Bus Pass at the same newsagents!

M.M.

Why do you need a One Day Travelcard?

Because you are going on National Rail.

Probably about 50% of people have to do this each day.

tim

Since there are more passengers on the underground every day than on
the whole national rail network across Britain, I'm quite sure it's a
lot less than 50%.

I've read that statistic and I'm very suspicious of it. The trains in
south london are packed and when you throw in the commuter lines in
other large cities such as liverpool, manchester, glasgow, edinburgh
and on top of that cross country and long distance travellers. I'm
pretty sure it must come damn close.

B2003

"sweek" wrote in message
...
On 28 Jun, 20:43, "tim....." wrote:
"Scott" wrote in message

...



On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 06:40:06 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

I could hardly believe, last week, when I tried to buy a One Day
Travelcard at my local newsgent, who had sold them for many years,
that they are no longer available there! The equipment, he told me, as
I could see, had been removed and all he can now do is add credit to
Oyster cards, or sell weekly etc. tickets on Oyster.

This is an outrageous scam by T.F.L., which means I now would now lose
£1 credit on my Oyster in order to get a bus to my local station which
is, presumably, the only place I can now buy a One Day Travelcard.
Does anyone know why one can't get a One Day Travelcard on Oyster?

It's funny that bus drivers don't even seem to know that this is now
the case, since my father when he tried bought a ticket on the bus one
morning was told by the driver that it would be cheaper for him to by
a One Day Bus Pass at the same newsagents!

M.M.

Why do you need a One Day Travelcard?

Because you are going on National Rail.

Probably about 50% of people have to do this each day.

tim

Since there are more passengers on the underground every day than on
the whole national rail network across Britain, I'm quite sure it's a
lot less than 50%.

-----------------------------------------------------------

That is an incorrect use of statistics. It is not the total journeys that
count, it is the initial journey.

Many people from South London (on a day out using a ODTC) will make their
initial journey on National Rail and then (say) 6 journeys on the
Underground and then a final journey on National Rail back home again. So
even people who need a paper ticket before they leave home will make the
majority of their journeys on the Underground.

tim

wrote in message
...
On 29 Jun, 10:16, sweek wrote:
On 28 Jun, 20:43, "tim....." wrote:



"Scott" wrote in message

.. .

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 06:40:06 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

I could hardly believe, last week, when I tried to buy a One Day
Travelcard at my local newsgent, who had sold them for many years,
that they are no longer available there! The equipment, he told me, as
I could see, had been removed and all he can now do is add credit to
Oyster cards, or sell weekly etc. tickets on Oyster.

This is an outrageous scam by T.F.L., which means I now would now lose
£1 credit on my Oyster in order to get a bus to my local station which
is, presumably, the only place I can now buy a One Day Travelcard.
Does anyone know why one can't get a One Day Travelcard on Oyster?

It's funny that bus drivers don't even seem to know that this is now
the case, since my father when he tried bought a ticket on the bus one
morning was told by the driver that it would be cheaper for him to by
a One Day Bus Pass at the same newsagents!

M.M.

Why do you need a One Day Travelcard?

Because you are going on National Rail.

Probably about 50% of people have to do this each day.

tim

Since there are more passengers on the underground every day than on
the whole national rail network across Britain, I'm quite sure it's a
lot less than 50%.

I've read that statistic and I'm very suspicious of it. The trains in
south london are packed and when you throw in the commuter lines in
other large cities such as liverpool, manchester, glasgow, edinburgh
and on top of that cross country and long distance travellers. I'm
pretty sure it must come damn close.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's based upon the fact that people make lots of journeys of 2 or 3 stops
on the Underground. People don't do this anywhere near as often on National
Rail (mainly because of the train frequency).

Tim

On Jun 29, 11:25�am, "tim....." wrote:
wrote in message

...
On 29 Jun, 10:16, sweek wrote:





On 28 Jun, 20:43, "tim....." wrote:

"Scott" wrote in message

.. .

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 06:40:06 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

I could hardly believe, last week, when I tried to buy a One Day
Travelcard at my local newsgent, who had sold them for many years,
that they are no longer available there! The equipment, he told me, as
I could see, had been removed and all he can now do is add credit to
Oyster cards, or sell weekly etc. tickets on Oyster.

This is an outrageous scam by T.F.L., which means I now would now lose
�1 credit on my Oyster in order to get a bus to my local station which
is, presumably, the only place I can now buy a One Day Travelcard.
Does anyone know why one can't get a One Day Travelcard on Oyster?

It's funny that bus drivers don't even seem to know that this is now
the case, since my father when he tried bought a ticket on the bus one
morning was told by the driver that it would be cheaper for him to by
a One Day Bus Pass at the same newsagents!

M.M.

Why do you need a One Day Travelcard?

Because you are going on National Rail.

Probably about 50% of people have to do this each day.

tim

Since there are more passengers on the underground every day than on
the whole national rail network across Britain, I'm quite sure it's a
lot less than 50%.

I've read that statistic and I'm very suspicious of it. The trains in
south london are packed and when you throw in the commuter lines in
other large cities such as liverpool, manchester, glasgow, edinburgh
and on top of that cross country and long distance travellers. I'm
pretty sure it must come damn close.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------�-----------------------

It's based upon the fact that people make lots of journeys of 2 or 3 stops
on the Underground. �People don't do this anywhere near as often on National
Rail (mainly because of the train frequency).

Tim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

As the original poster of this thread, I am delighted that so much
interest has been generated!

But, two points in reply:

1. No-one has answered why One Day Travelcards are not available on
Oyster. That availability would, at a stroke, remove my complaint.

2. My newsagent most definitely does not have any "encoded" or other
ticket stock of any sort. He used to, but does not now. All he has is
the device for adding credit/tickets to Oyster cards. He has no pre-
printed ticket stock of any sort.

Marc.

On 29 Jun, 12:56, " wrote:
On Jun 29, 11:25�am, "tim....." wrote:



wrote in message

....
On 29 Jun, 10:16, sweek wrote:

On 28 Jun, 20:43, "tim....." wrote:

"Scott" wrote in message

.. .

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 06:40:06 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

I could hardly believe, last week, when I tried to buy a One Day
Travelcard at my local newsgent, who had sold them for many years,
that they are no longer available there! The equipment, he told me, as
I could see, had been removed and all he can now do is add credit to
Oyster cards, or sell weekly etc. tickets on Oyster.

This is an outrageous scam by T.F.L., which means I now would now lose
�1 credit on my Oyster in order to get a bus to my local station which
is, presumably, the only place I can now buy a One Day Travelcard..
Does anyone know why one can't get a One Day Travelcard on Oyster?

It's funny that bus drivers don't even seem to know that this is now
the case, since my father when he tried bought a ticket on the bus one
morning was told by the driver that it would be cheaper for him to by
a One Day Bus Pass at the same newsagents!

M.M.

Why do you need a One Day Travelcard?

Because you are going on National Rail.

Probably about 50% of people have to do this each day.

tim

Since there are more passengers on the underground every day than on
the whole national rail network across Britain, I'm quite sure it's a
lot less than 50%.

I've read that statistic and I'm very suspicious of it. The trains in
south london are packed and when you throw in the commuter lines in
other large cities such as liverpool, manchester, glasgow, edinburgh
and on top of that cross country and long distance travellers. I'm
pretty sure it must come damn close.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------�-----------------------

It's based upon the fact that people make lots of journeys of 2 or 3 stops
on the Underground. �People don't do this anywhere near as often on National
Rail (mainly because of the train frequency).

Tim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

As the original poster of this thread, I am delighted that so much
interest has been generated!

But, two points in reply:

1. No-one has answered why One Day Travelcards are not available on
Oyster. That availability would, at a stroke, remove my complaint.

Simple - TfL don't give a **** about you. No doubt 1 day travelcards
being used on the mainline was costing them money so they subtly
binned it. All Oyster is is a way for TfL to save money , nothing
more. All this more convenient for passengers balony is just spin.
Smartcard or magnetic strip is irrelevant to most people - they just
want to get to their destinations in a reasonable time and reasonable
comfort for a reasonable price. On which all counts TfL and LUL fail
miserably.

B2003

In message
, at
02:41:56 on Sun, 29 Jun 2008, remarked:
Since there are more passengers on the underground every day than on
the whole national rail network across Britain, I'm quite sure it's a
lot less than 50%.

I've read that statistic and I'm very suspicious of it. The trains in
south london are packed and when you throw in the commuter lines in
other large cities such as liverpool, manchester, glasgow, edinburgh
and on top of that cross country and long distance travellers. I'm
pretty sure it must come damn close.

People are using the tube all day long, not just in the rush hour. And
for every National Rail commuter who gets out at somewhere like Kings
Cross, there are at least as many north Londoners staying on the train
to complete their journey (even in the rush hour).
--
Roland Perry