On Jun 29, 10:16*am, sweek wrote:
On 28 Jun, 20:43, "tim....." wrote:





"Scott" wrote in message

.. .

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 06:40:06 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

I could hardly believe, last week, when I tried to buy a One Day
Travelcard at my local newsgent, who had sold them for many years,
that they are no longer available there! The equipment, he told me, as
I could see, had been removed and all he can now do is add credit to
Oyster cards, or sell weekly etc. tickets on Oyster.

This is an outrageous scam by T.F.L., which means I now would now lose
£1 credit on my Oyster in order to get a bus to my local station which
is, presumably, the only place I can now buy a One Day Travelcard.
Does anyone know why one can't get a One Day Travelcard on Oyster?

It's funny that bus drivers don't even seem to know that this is now
the case, since my father when he tried bought a ticket on the bus one
morning was told by the driver that it would be cheaper for him to by
a One Day Bus Pass at the same newsagents!

M.M.

Why do you need a One Day Travelcard?

Because you are going on National Rail.

Probably about 50% of people have to do this each day.

tim

Since there are more passengers on the underground every day than on
the whole national rail network across Britain, I'm quite sure it's a
lot less than 50%.

Firstly, given that the people who have no alternative to one day
travelcards are those who use National Rail, surely the relative
proportion of National Rail-using one day travelcard holders must be
increasing?

Secondly, the number people who use LU includes all the people who
funnel in from National Rail, which may well be somewhere near half of
them.

Thirdly, it's not just National Rail. The DLR sells one day
travelcards but doesn't sell Oyster.

On Jun 29, 1:23Â*pm, wrote:
On 29 Jun, 12:56, " wrote:





On Jun 29, 11:25�am, "tim....." wrote:

wrote in message

....
On 29 Jun, 10:16, sweek wrote:

On 28 Jun, 20:43, "tim....." wrote:

"Scott" wrote in message

.. .

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 06:40:06 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

I could hardly believe, last week, when I tried to buy a One Day
Travelcard at my local newsgent, who had sold them for many years,
that they are no longer available there! The equipment, he told me, as
I could see, had been removed and all he can now do is add credit to
Oyster cards, or sell weekly etc. tickets on Oyster.

This is an outrageous scam by T.F.L., which means I now would now lose
�1 credit on my Oyster in order to get a bus to my local station which
is, presumably, the only place I can now buy a One Day Travelcard.
Does anyone know why one can't get a One Day Travelcard on Oyster?

It's funny that bus drivers don't even seem to know that this is now
the case, since my father when he tried bought a ticket on the bus one
morning was told by the driver that it would be cheaper for him to by
a One Day Bus Pass at the same newsagents!

M.M.

Why do you need a One Day Travelcard?

Because you are going on National Rail.

Probably about 50% of people have to do this each day.

tim

Since there are more passengers on the underground every day than on
the whole national rail network across Britain, I'm quite sure it's a
lot less than 50%.

I've read that statistic and I'm very suspicious of it. The trains in
south london are packed and when you throw in the commuter lines in
other large cities such as liverpool, manchester, glasgow, edinburgh
and on top of that cross country and long distance travellers. I'm
pretty sure it must come damn close.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------Â*�-----------------------

It's based upon the fact that people make lots of journeys of 2 or 3 stops
on the Underground. �People don't do this anywhere near as often on National
Rail (mainly because of the train frequency).

Tim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

As the original poster of this thread, I am delighted that so much
interest has been generated!

But, two points in reply:

1. No-one has answered why One Day Travelcards are not available on
Oyster. That availability would, at a stroke, remove my complaint.

Simple - TfL don't give a **** about you. No doubt 1 day travelcards
being used on the mainline was costing them money so they subtly
binned it. All Oyster is is a way for TfL to save money , nothing
more. All this more convenient for passengers balony is just spin.
Smartcard or magnetic strip is irrelevant to most people - they just
want to get to their destinations in a reasonable time and reasonable
comfort for a reasonable price. On which all counts TfL and LUL fail
miserably.

They are certainly in denial about the real world situation, and make
their excuses in terms of a situation that they know not to exist.

Like the previous poster, I think it would be very useful to put a one-
day travelcard on Oyster. Even if you normally only use PAYG, there
will be days when you have to use some National Rail, so get a one-day
travelcard instead.

It must be very common for people in that situation to be in the habit
of touching their Oyster at every gate, thus getting charged twice
(and possibly unresolved journeys). If the ODTC was on Oyster, it
would know not to charge PAYG.

On Jun 29, 9:38*am, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:34:11 GMT, (Neil

Williams) wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 23:42:54 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:

Your final option - updated coding on first entry - is correct. All
tickets and smartcards are updated whenever there is a valid transaction
at a ticket vending or validation device.

Except National Rail barriers, surely? *I was fairly sure they were a
read-only technology. *Or is it just understood that they'll probably
end up used on the Tube first anyway, otherwise they'd have probably
been bought from a mainline ticket office instead?

Similarly, does a Tube barrier write to a NR-encoded Travelcard?
Again, I thought it couldn't.

I'm not going in to a huge explanation on usenet about coding. Needless
to say valid tickets are encoded by gates at NR and LU locations
regardless of where the encoded ticket was issued. * The system of
checking could not work properly if that were not the case. *Valid
Oyster cards, similarly, are updated regardless of where they were
bought, had value added or what validation device is reading / writing
to them.

It seems like an odd system, given the basic assumptions that
passengers are cheats, to provide them with a card that can be used
once for a day of bus and ungated NR, followed by a day of getting
through barriers and little chance of someone looking at the date
stamp.

Anyway "it got me through the barrier so the newsagent must have put
the wrong date on and I didn't notice".

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:11:16 -0700 (PDT), MIG
wrote:

On Jun 29, 1:23*pm, wrote:
On 29 Jun, 12:56, " wrote:





On Jun 29, 11:25?am, "tim....." wrote:

wrote in message

...
On 29 Jun, 10:16, sweek wrote:

On 28 Jun, 20:43, "tim....." wrote:

"Scott" wrote in message

.. .

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 06:40:06 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

I could hardly believe, last week, when I tried to buy a One Day
Travelcard at my local newsgent, who had sold them for many years,
that they are no longer available there! The equipment, he told me, as
I could see, had been removed and all he can now do is add credit to
Oyster cards, or sell weekly etc. tickets on Oyster.

This is an outrageous scam by T.F.L., which means I now would now lose
?1 credit on my Oyster in order to get a bus to my local station which
is, presumably, the only place I can now buy a One Day Travelcard.
Does anyone know why one can't get a One Day Travelcard on Oyster?

It's funny that bus drivers don't even seem to know that this is now
the case, since my father when he tried bought a ticket on the bus one
morning was told by the driver that it would be cheaper for him to by
a One Day Bus Pass at the same newsagents!

M.M.

Why do you need a One Day Travelcard?

Because you are going on National Rail.

Probably about 50% of people have to do this each day.

tim

Since there are more passengers on the underground every day than on
the whole national rail network across Britain, I'm quite sure it's a
lot less than 50%.

I've read that statistic and I'm very suspicious of it. The trains in
south london are packed and when you throw in the commuter lines in
other large cities such as liverpool, manchester, glasgow, edinburgh
and on top of that cross country and long distance travellers. I'm
pretty sure it must come damn close.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------*?-----------------------

It's based upon the fact that people make lots of journeys of 2 or 3 stops
on the Underground. ?People don't do this anywhere near as often on National
Rail (mainly because of the train frequency).

Tim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

As the original poster of this thread, I am delighted that so much
interest has been generated!

But, two points in reply:

1. No-one has answered why One Day Travelcards are not available on
Oyster. That availability would, at a stroke, remove my complaint.

Simple - TfL don't give a **** about you. No doubt 1 day travelcards
being used on the mainline was costing them money so they subtly
binned it. All Oyster is is a way for TfL to save money , nothing
more. All this more convenient for passengers balony is just spin.
Smartcard or magnetic strip is irrelevant to most people - they just
want to get to their destinations in a reasonable time and reasonable
comfort for a reasonable price. On which all counts TfL and LUL fail
miserably.

They are certainly in denial about the real world situation, and make
their excuses in terms of a situation that they know not to exist.

Like the previous poster, I think it would be very useful to put a one-
day travelcard on Oyster. Even if you normally only use PAYG, there
will be days when you have to use some National Rail, so get a one-day
travelcard instead.

It must be very common for people in that situation to be in the habit
of touching their Oyster at every gate, thus getting charged twice
(and possibly unresolved journeys). If the ODTC was on Oyster, it
would know not to charge PAYG.

Much better to include National Rail in the PAYG and Oyster capping
arrangements. I believe Boris is working towards this.

There will then be no need for a One Day Travelcard as the system will
automatically cap the payment at the rate for the One Day Travelcard.

Scott wrote:

Much better to include National Rail in the PAYG and Oyster capping
arrangements. I believe Boris is working towards this.

There will then be no need for a One Day Travelcard as the system will
automatically cap the payment at the rate for the One Day Travelcard.

What about people travelling in from outside London? Will provincial ticket
machines issue Oster?

In message , Scott
writes

It must be very common for people in that situation to be in the habit
of touching their Oyster at every gate, thus getting charged twice
(and possibly unresolved journeys). If the ODTC was on Oyster, it
would know not to charge PAYG.

Much better to include National Rail in the PAYG and Oyster capping
arrangements. I believe Boris is working towards this.

And you believe the previous Mayor wasn't? Where would Mayor Johnson
have got these agreements from in no time at all if not?

There will then be no need for a One Day Travelcard as the system will
automatically cap the payment at the rate for the One Day Travelcard.

I actually guess there will always be a need for the ODTC if only to
appease the ATOC in ticket issuing.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:02:39 +0100, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote:

Scott wrote:

Much better to include National Rail in the PAYG and Oyster capping
arrangements. I believe Boris is working towards this.

There will then be no need for a One Day Travelcard as the system will
automatically cap the payment at the rate for the One Day Travelcard.

What about people travelling in from outside London? Will provincial ticket
machines issue Oster?

There is no requirement to live in London to have an Oyster card. They
can be topped up on-line.

I don't live in London and I have one. It is worth the loss of
interest on £5 or so (25p per annum?) in return for the convenience of
being able to travel about in London without having to buy a ticket
and knowing that I won't get charged more than a One Day Travelcard.

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:11:25 +0100, Steve Fitzgerald
] wrote:

In message , Scott
writes

It must be very common for people in that situation to be in the habit
of touching their Oyster at every gate, thus getting charged twice
(and possibly unresolved journeys). If the ODTC was on Oyster, it
would know not to charge PAYG.

Much better to include National Rail in the PAYG and Oyster capping
arrangements. I believe Boris is working towards this.

And you believe the previous Mayor wasn't? Where would Mayor Johnson
have got these agreements from in no time at all if not?

The point is the previous Mayor is not working on it now.

There will then be no need for a One Day Travelcard as the system will
automatically cap the payment at the rate for the One Day Travelcard.

I actually guess there will always be a need for the ODTC if only to
appease the ATOC in ticket issuing.

Maybe or maybe not. Depends on what the agreement says and what the
revenue sharing arrangements are. I understand it will be part of
each new franchise to participate in Oyster.

In message , Scott
writes

Much better to include National Rail in the PAYG and Oyster capping
arrangements. I believe Boris is working towards this.

And you believe the previous Mayor wasn't? Where would Mayor Johnson
have got these agreements from in no time at all if not?

The point is the previous Mayor is not working on it now.

Well dur no, as it's nothing to do with him any more. Most of the
groundwork that the current incumbent is heralding comes from the
previous team though.

Mind you, that's politics.

There will then be no need for a One Day Travelcard as the system will
automatically cap the payment at the rate for the One Day Travelcard.

I actually guess there will always be a need for the ODTC if only to
appease the ATOC in ticket issuing.

Maybe or maybe not. Depends on what the agreement says and what the
revenue sharing arrangements are. I understand it will be part of
each new franchise to participate in Oyster.

It's also part of each franchise that Travelcards are an intrinsic part
of their fare structure.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 20:05:16 +0100, Steve Fitzgerald
] wrote:

In message , Scott
writes

Much better to include National Rail in the PAYG and Oyster capping
arrangements. I believe Boris is working towards this.

And you believe the previous Mayor wasn't? Where would Mayor Johnson
have got these agreements from in no time at all if not?

The point is the previous Mayor is not working on it now.

Well dur no, as it's nothing to do with him any more. Most of the
groundwork that the current incumbent is heralding comes from the
previous team though.

Mind you, that's politics.

There will then be no need for a One Day Travelcard as the system will
automatically cap the payment at the rate for the One Day Travelcard.

I actually guess there will always be a need for the ODTC if only to
appease the ATOC in ticket issuing.

Maybe or maybe not. Depends on what the agreement says and what the
revenue sharing arrangements are. I understand it will be part of
each new franchise to participate in Oyster.

It's also part of each franchise that Travelcards are an intrinsic part
of their fare structure.

Surely that means the principle of the Travelcard which is enshrined
in the capping arrangements used by Oyster rather than the actual card
in the literal sense?