I always thought consultants were paid obscene amounts of money to waste
employees time asking them how to solve a problem, ignore their wisdom,
write a report based on the solution they had decided on beforehand and
depart before the whatsit hit the thingy!

MaxB

Yes, that sounds familiar. It's no coincidence that consultancy begins with
con ;-)

On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 13:28:41 +0100, "dB" wrote:

I always thought consultants were paid obscene amounts of money to waste
employees time asking them how to solve a problem, ignore their wisdom,
write a report based on the solution they had decided on beforehand and
depart before the whatsit hit the thingy!

MaxB

Yes, that sounds familiar. It's no coincidence that consultancy begins with
con ;-)

Consult: A cross between "con" and "insult".

(With thanks to Scott Adams).

On 25 Jul, 21:43, Chris wrote:
Of course they can - incorrect data downloaded to cards can easily
makethem inoperable.

I've not yet come across r/w memory that can't be reset if theres
dodgy data on it so unless they're upgrading any software there may be
on it I can't see how it could happen. And if thats the case you have
to ask yourself why.

Both today anda couple of weeks ago are being put
down to Transys.& no hacking fix.#

Yes , because I'm sure TfL would release a statement saying "transys
have been attempting a workaround for the MiFARE hack but have so far
failed miserably".

B2003

On Jul 26, 2:22*pm, James Farrar wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 13:28:41 +0100, "dB" wrote:
I always thought consultants were paid obscene amounts of money to waste
employees time asking them how to solve a problem, ignore their wisdom,
write a report based on the solution they had decided on beforehand and
depart before the whatsit hit the thingy!

MaxB

Yes, that sounds familiar. It's no coincidence that consultancy begins with
con ;-)

Consult: A cross between "con" and "insult".

(With thanks to Scott Adams).

It's not incompatible with my version if the management decision is to
hire consultants to override the wisdom of the staff and to produce
the solution that management hired them to produce (possibly on the
grounds that it's the solution that the particular consultancy always
produces).

In message
, at
12:25:39 on Sat, 26 Jul 2008, MIG
remarked:
It's not incompatible with my version if the management decision is to
hire consultants to override the wisdom of the staff and to produce
the solution that management hired them to produce (possibly on the
grounds that it's the solution that the particular consultancy always
produces).

The other common scenario is that the consultants produce the solution
that the staff recommend, but the management weren't listening to the
staff. So everyone wins! Call it a catalyst.
--
Roland Perry

The other common scenario is that the consultants produce the solution
that the staff recommend, but the management weren't listening to the
staff. So everyone wins! Call it a catalyst.

Except it cost the company a lot of money for someone to state the obvious.

In message , at
20:52:55 on Sat, 26 Jul 2008, dB remarked:
The other common scenario is that the consultants produce the solution
that the staff recommend, but the management weren't listening to the
staff. So everyone wins! Call it a catalyst.

Except it cost the company a lot of money for someone to state the obvious.

But without paying the money the "obvious" goes un-stated.

You probably wouldn't be surprised to learn how many managements are
convinced that no good ideas will ever come from the staff, so those
ideas end up being laundered through a consultant.

The consultant doesn't have zero work to do, of course; he has to listen
to all the staff, then select the ideas that makes sense. But the
chances are that many times there will be some non-trivial subset of the
staff who will recognise it as "their" idea.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:


You probably wouldn't be surprised to learn how many managements are
convinced that no good ideas will ever come from the staff, so those
ideas end up being laundered through a consultant.


I have to say I (as a staff member with ideas) only realised the
usefulness of this relatively recently. The consultant, having been
brought in to have ideas but without any idea of how the place runs, is
going to reach for anyone willing to explain things to him like a
drowning man for a lifebelt. If you can get a couple of hours alone
with him you have a good chance of getting your ideas in front of people
with far less effort than it would normally take through conventional
bureaucracy.

This does require that you aren't expecting to be thanked or recognised
for you contribution, and that you have sufficient self control that
when management order you to drop everything and run with the exciting
new idea the consultant has proposed you don't go 'hey, that was what
I've been saying for years'.

Sadly it's a common human bias to value something that cost a lot of
money more.

Tom

In message , at 10:11:45 on Sun, 27
Jul 2008, Tom Barry remarked:

You probably wouldn't be surprised to learn how many managements are
convinced that no good ideas will ever come from the staff, so those
ideas end up being laundered through a consultant.

I have to say I (as a staff member with ideas) only realised the
usefulness of this relatively recently. The consultant, having been
brought in to have ideas but without any idea of how the place runs, is
going to reach for anyone willing to explain things to him like a
drowning man for a lifebelt. If you can get a couple of hours alone
with him you have a good chance of getting your ideas in front of
people with far less effort than it would normally take through
conventional bureaucracy.

This does require that you aren't expecting to be thanked or recognised
for you contribution, and that you have sufficient self control that
when management order you to drop everything and run with the exciting
new idea the consultant has proposed you don't go 'hey, that was what
I've been saying for years'.

Sadly it's a common human bias to value something that cost a lot of
money more.

Most of that's true, but I think you are being a little hard on the
"drowning man" - their job is to come into a new place and find out how
it ticks.

As for use of consultants in general, here's another way of thinking
about them: A computer software company needs a new head office and
rather than design it themselves (and unwilling to hire as employees the
people with the skills) decide to subcontract it out to some building
design consultants. Or as they are often called, architects. These folk
interview the management and staff to get an idea of the requirements
(probably none of them are programmers so want to understand what the
special needs are).

Eventually they draw up plans in a sufficiently professional way that
they are accepted by management and the board. The management were
sceptical about some aspects (particularly some of the more
staff-friendly ones), but the architects were able to argue that these
features had worked well in other buildings they had done and figures
that showed increased productivity; the board were impressed by the
financial due diligence from people with credentials, and appreciated
someone to pass the planning approval buck to. The staff recognised many
of the things they had asked for, and wondered why specialists were
needed at all; if only the management had listened to them!
--
Roland Perry

On Jul 27, 11:01*am, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 10:11:45 on Sun, 27
Jul 2008, Tom Barry remarked:







*You probably wouldn't be surprised to learn how many managements are
convinced that no good ideas will ever come from the staff, so those
ideas end up being laundered through a consultant.

I have to say I (as a staff member with ideas) only realised the
usefulness of this relatively recently. *The consultant, having been
brought in to have ideas but without any idea of how the place runs, is
going to reach for anyone willing to explain things to him like a
drowning man for a lifebelt. *If you can get a couple of hours alone
with him you have a good chance of getting your ideas in front of
people with far less effort than it would normally take through
conventional bureaucracy.

This does require that you aren't expecting to be thanked or recognised
for you contribution, and that you have sufficient self control that
when management order you to drop everything and run with the exciting
new idea the consultant has proposed you don't go 'hey, that was what
I've been saying for years'.

Sadly it's a common human bias to value something that cost a lot of
money more.

Most of that's true, but I think you are being a little hard on the
"drowning man" - their job is to come into a new place and find out how
it ticks.

As for use of consultants in general, here's another way of thinking
about them: *A computer software company needs a new head office and
rather than design it themselves (and unwilling to hire as employees the
people with the skills) decide to subcontract it out to some building
design consultants. Or as they are often called, architects. These folk
interview the management and staff to get an idea of the requirements
(probably none of them are programmers so want to understand what the
special needs are).

Eventually they draw up plans in a sufficiently professional way that
they are accepted by management and the board. The management were
sceptical about some aspects (particularly some of the more
staff-friendly ones), but the architects were able to argue that these
features had worked well in other buildings they had done and figures
that showed increased productivity; the board were impressed by the
financial due diligence from people with credentials, and appreciated
someone to pass the planning approval buck to. The staff recognised many
of the things they had asked for, and wondered why specialists were
needed at all; if only the management had listened to them!

My experience is that the management want to cover their backs WHEN
something fails, by saying "but we paid the most expensive
consultants".

They could have spent an awful lot less on working with their own
staff to prevent it failing in the first place. I've seen that a few
times.