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Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London
In Thames Rd aka Strand On The Green, just west of the railway bridge is an alley called Post Office Alley which contains a small old floodgate at the river end. Set into one wall of this alleyway is a line of solid metal knobs which are shaped like carpentry dovetails. The line is level (i.e. level with a spirit level rather than level with the rather sloping ground). There is nothing in the other side of the alley. I presume they serve some flood defence purpose but I can't figure it out. Any clues? |
Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London
On Jul 26, 4:25*pm, "John Rowland"
wrote: In Thames Rd aka Strand On The Green, just west of the railway bridge is an alley called Post Office Alley which contains a small old floodgate at the river end. Set into one wall of this alleyway is a line of solid metal knobs which are shaped like carpentry dovetails. The line is level (i.e. level with a spirit level rather than level with the rather sloping ground). There is nothing in the other side of the alley. I presume they serve some flood defence purpose but I can't figure it out. Any clues? How big are they? Which way round are they? Dovetail joints are corner joints, so it would imply that some kind of wooden or metal board hung vertically from these if the dovetails are in line. Some kind of wall protection? Was this area once used for loading/unloading of barges? Tone |
Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London
"John Rowland" wrote in message ... In Thames Rd aka Strand On The Green, just west of the railway bridge is an alley called Post Office Alley which contains a small old floodgate at the river end. Set into one wall of this alleyway is a line of solid metal knobs which are shaped like carpentry dovetails. The line is level (i.e. level with a spirit level rather than level with the rather sloping ground). There is nothing in the other side of the alley. I presume they serve some flood defence purpose but I can't figure it out. Any clues? Photograph he http://americangrey.co.uk/index.php?showimage=489 It looks to me like they may just have been some sort of fixing for shuttering when the render was applied to the brickwork - but why is the rendering higher on that wall than the opposite wall? Either that, or there's a mezzanine floor inside the building, and the dovetail joints are exactly that! -- MatSav |
Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London
John Rowland wrote:
In Thames Rd aka Strand On The Green, just west of the railway bridge is an alley called Post Office Alley which contains a small old floodgate at the river end. Set into one wall of this alleyway is a line of solid metal knobs which are shaped like carpentry dovetails. The line is level (i.e. level with a spirit level rather than level with the rather sloping ground). There is nothing in the other side of the alley. I presume they serve some flood defence purpose but I can't figure it out. Any clues? I can't help with your question, but just to correct one point in your post: Thames Road is not "aka" Strand on the Green. The name Strand on the Green is applied both to (a) the riverside village just downstream from Kew Bridge, and (b) within that village the highway along the river bank. That highway starts as a road but the road soon veers away from the river at which point it becomes Thames Road. Strand on the Green (the highway) continues along the river bank as a mere towpath, but still has houses fronting on to it (with postal addresses of xx Strand on the Green) whose land reaches back as far as Thames Road, sometimes with separate buildings fronting on to Thames Road. Buildings or gates on the south side of Thames Road may therefore carry either Thames Road numbers or Strand on the Green numbers, usually without specifying which. As far as I remember, the situation is not helped by the numbers on the two roads running in different directions. Finding house number X in Thames Road can be difficult! -- Richard J. (to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address) |
Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 16:25:19 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote: In Thames Rd aka Strand On The Green, just west of the railway bridge is an alley called Post Office Alley which contains a small old floodgate at the river end. Set into one wall of this alleyway is a line of solid metal knobs which are shaped like carpentry dovetails. The line is level (i.e. level with a spirit level rather than level with the rather sloping ground). There is nothing in the other side of the alley. I presume they serve some flood defence purpose but I can't figure it out. Any clues? Great that MatSav found the photo: http://americangrey.co.uk/index.php?showimage=489 but unfortunately it doesn't show the knobs very clearly. ISTM that is unlikely they are anything to do with flood control. Could they be the terminals of rods holding the wall in? If so, the higher rendering on that side could be concealing wall repair work. On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 22:14:13 GMT, "Richard J." wrote: Thames Road is not "aka" Strand on the Green. The name Strand on the Green is applied both to (a) the riverside village just downstream from Kew Bridge, and (b) within that village the highway along the river bank. That highway starts as a road but the road soon veers away from the river at which point it becomes Thames Road. The word "strand" means beach or shore. The road Strand near Charing Cross used to be along the shoreline of the Thames before infilling (narrowing) of the river, which is a common fate for waterfront in areas of high land value. I assume Strand on the Green is/was a river beach backing on to a green, and a village by it. The green seems to be long-gone, according to my A-Z. The street Strand on the Green is right next to the (original) strand, while Thames Road is slightly inland of it and thus quite properly not called a strand. The A-Z appears to name the river bank parallel to Thames Road as "Strand on the Green". There's an article about the place in Wikipedia, with pictures (including one of flooding). Adrian .. Adrian Stott |
Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London
MatSav wrote:
"John Rowland" wrote in message ... In Thames Rd aka Strand On The Green, just west of the railway bridge is an alley called Post Office Alley which contains a small old floodgate at the river end. Set into one wall of this alleyway is a line of solid metal knobs which are shaped like carpentry dovetails. The line is level (i.e. level with a spirit level rather than level with the rather sloping ground). There is nothing in the other side of the alley. I presume they serve some flood defence purpose but I can't figure it out. Any clues? Photograph he http://americangrey.co.uk/index.php?showimage=489 Thanks! You find the most secret little wonderful place in London... and then you find out that several Beetles movies have been shot there. Sigh. It looks to me like they may just have been some sort of fixing for shuttering when the render was applied to the brickwork - but why is the rendering higher on that wall than the opposite wall? Either that, or there's a mezzanine floor inside the building, and the dovetail joints are exactly that! Here's the pic I took... I should have included that with the first post, but I didn't know how many people would be interested. http://www.geocities.com/pikkulapsi/Rimg0199-mod.jpg |
Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London
Richard J. wrote:
John Rowland wrote: In Thames Rd aka Strand On The Green, just west of the railway bridge is an alley called Post Office Alley which contains a small old floodgate at the river end. Set into one wall of this alleyway is a line of solid metal knobs which are shaped like carpentry dovetails. The line is level (i.e. level with a spirit level rather than level with the rather sloping ground). There is nothing in the other side of the alley. I presume they serve some flood defence purpose but I can't figure it out. Any clues? I can't help with your question, but just to correct one point in your post: Thames Road is not "aka" Strand on the Green. The name Strand on the Green is applied both to (a) the riverside village just downstream from Kew Bridge, and (b) within that village the highway along the river bank. That highway starts as a road but the road soon veers away from the river at which point it becomes Thames Road. Strand on the Green (the highway) continues along the river bank as a mere towpath, but still has houses fronting on to it (with postal addresses of xx Strand on the Green) whose land reaches back as far as Thames Road, sometimes with separate buildings fronting on to Thames Road. Buildings or gates on the south side of Thames Road may therefore carry either Thames Road numbers or Strand on the Green numbers, usually without specifying which. As far as I remember, the situation is not helped by the numbers on the two roads running in different directions. Finding house number X in Thames Road can be difficult! "What is the name of this road" is often a surprisingly difficult question to answer: it is not rare for the two sides of a road to have different names, although this is a particularly unusual example, because there are Thames Road properties on both sides of the road, and there are Strand On The Green properties on both sides of the road, and the experience of someone driving along the road is that both sides of the road are changing name back and forth. In particular, there are some properties numbered as Strand On The Green on the north side of the road east of the point where Thames Road starts, which defeats your argument. Therefore I don't consider my original post to be in need of correction. |
Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London
John Rowland wrote:
Richard J. wrote: John Rowland wrote: In Thames Rd aka Strand On The Green, just west of the railway bridge is an alley called Post Office Alley which contains a small old floodgate at the river end. Set into one wall of this alleyway is a line of solid metal knobs which are shaped like carpentry dovetails. The line is level (i.e. level with a spirit level rather than level with the rather sloping ground). There is nothing in the other side of the alley. I presume they serve some flood defence purpose but I can't figure it out. Any clues? I can't help with your question, but just to correct one point in your post: Thames Road is not "aka" Strand on the Green. The name Strand on the Green is applied both to (a) the riverside village just downstream from Kew Bridge, and (b) within that village the highway along the river bank. That highway starts as a road but the road soon veers away from the river at which point it becomes Thames Road. Strand on the Green (the highway) continues along the river bank as a mere towpath, but still has houses fronting on to it (with postal addresses of xx Strand on the Green) whose land reaches back as far as Thames Road, sometimes with separate buildings fronting on to Thames Road. Buildings or gates on the south side of Thames Road may therefore carry either Thames Road numbers or Strand on the Green numbers, usually without specifying which. As far as I remember, the situation is not helped by the numbers on the two roads running in different directions. Finding house number X in Thames Road can be difficult! "What is the name of this road" is often a surprisingly difficult question to answer: it is not rare for the two sides of a road to have different names, although this is a particularly unusual example, because there are Thames Road properties on both sides of the road, and there are Strand On The Green properties on both sides of the road, and the experience of someone driving along the road is that both sides of the road are changing name back and forth. In particular, there are some properties numbered as Strand On The Green on the north side of the road east of the point where Thames Road starts, which defeats your argument. Oh, didn't realise that. It's worse than I thought. -- Richard J. (to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address) |
Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London
"John Rowland" wrote in message ... Richard J. wrote: John Rowland wrote: In Thames Rd aka Strand On The Green, just west of the railway bridge is an alley called Post Office Alley which contains a small old floodgate at the river end. Set into one wall of this alleyway is a line of solid metal knobs which are shaped like carpentry dovetails. The line is level (i.e. level with a spirit level rather than level with the rather sloping ground). There is nothing in the other side of the alley. I presume they serve some flood defence purpose but I can't figure it out. Any clues? I can't help with your question, but just to correct one point in your post: Thames Road is not "aka" Strand on the Green. The name Strand on the Green is applied both to (a) the riverside village just downstream from Kew Bridge, and (b) within that village the highway along the river bank. That highway starts as a road but the road soon veers away from the river at which point it becomes Thames Road. Strand on the Green (the highway) continues along the river bank as a mere towpath, but still has houses fronting on to it (with postal addresses of xx Strand on the Green) whose land reaches back as far as Thames Road, sometimes with separate buildings fronting on to Thames Road. Buildings or gates on the south side of Thames Road may therefore carry either Thames Road numbers or Strand on the Green numbers, usually without specifying which. As far as I remember, the situation is not helped by the numbers on the two roads running in different directions. Finding house number X in Thames Road can be difficult! "What is the name of this road" is often a surprisingly difficult question to answer: it is not rare for the two sides of a road to have different names, although this is a particularly unusual example, because there are Thames Road properties on both sides of the road, and there are Strand On The Green properties on both sides of the road, and the experience of someone driving along the road is that both sides of the road are changing name back and forth. In particular, there are some properties numbered as Strand On The Green on the north side of the road east of the point where Thames Road starts, which defeats your argument. Therefore I don't consider my original post to be in need of correction. That'll have been estate agents at work. Even in the 1930's. "Thames Road" sounds like it should be next to a gas works in Barking Reach or sonewhere similar "Strand on The Green" has always far more cachet. Zoffani etc etc. Various properties probably started off being described as in the "Strand on the Green Area" I'm not sure about the actual legal position - house deeds are based on maps not simply addresses - apparently just so long as the Post Office can find the address and mail reaches the correct recipient nobody is really that bothered. Must make census records confusing though I'imagine. michael adams |
Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London
"John Rowland" wrote in message
... Richard J. wrote: John Rowland wrote: In Thames Rd aka Strand On The Green, just west of the railway bridge is an alley called Post Office Alley which contains a small old floodgate at the river end. Set into one wall of this alleyway is a line of solid metal knobs which are shaped like carpentry dovetails. The line is level (i.e. level with a spirit level rather than level with the rather sloping ground). There is nothing in the other side of the alley. I presume they serve some flood defence purpose but I can't figure it out. Any clues? I can't help with your question, but just to correct one point in your post: Thames Road is not "aka" Strand on the Green. The name Strand on the Green is applied both to (a) the riverside village just downstream from Kew Bridge, and (b) within that village the highway along the river bank. That highway starts as a road but the road soon veers away from the river at which point it becomes Thames Road. Strand on the Green (the highway) continues along the river bank as a mere towpath, but still has houses fronting on to it (with postal addresses of xx Strand on the Green) whose land reaches back as far as Thames Road, sometimes with separate buildings fronting on to Thames Road. Buildings or gates on the south side of Thames Road may therefore carry either Thames Road numbers or Strand on the Green numbers, usually without specifying which. As far as I remember, the situation is not helped by the numbers on the two roads running in different directions. Finding house number X in Thames Road can be difficult! "What is the name of this road" is often a surprisingly difficult question to answer: it is not rare for the two sides of a road to have different names, although this is a particularly unusual example, because there are Thames Road properties on both sides of the road, and there are Strand On The Green properties on both sides of the road, and the experience of someone driving along the road is that both sides of the road are changing name back and forth. In particular, there are some properties numbered as Strand On The Green on the north side of the road east of the point where Thames Road starts, which defeats your argument. Therefore I don't consider my original post to be in need of correction. Just a thought. What you see on Strand on The Green are the backs of the houses. Same as the top end of Park Lane whose "actual address" is far less prestigeous. So possibly in both cases the owners have taken advantage of the fact that their houses stand on two thoroughfares and have chosed the better one - even fitting a letter box if necessary. And just so lang as there's no intention to decieve that's presumably o.k. michael adams |
Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London
michael adams wrote:
"John Rowland" wrote in message ... Richard J. wrote: John Rowland wrote: In Thames Rd aka Strand On The Green, just west of the railway bridge is an alley called Post Office Alley which contains a small old floodgate at the river end. Set into one wall of this alleyway is a line of solid metal knobs which are shaped like carpentry dovetails. The line is level (i.e. level with a spirit level rather than level with the rather sloping ground). There is nothing in the other side of the alley. I presume they serve some flood defence purpose but I can't figure it out. Any clues? I can't help with your question, but just to correct one point in your post: Thames Road is not "aka" Strand on the Green. The name Strand on the Green is applied both to (a) the riverside village just downstream from Kew Bridge, and (b) within that village the highway along the river bank. That highway starts as a road but the road soon veers away from the river at which point it becomes Thames Road. Strand on the Green (the highway) continues along the river bank as a mere towpath, but still has houses fronting on to it (with postal addresses of xx Strand on the Green) whose land reaches back as far as Thames Road, sometimes with separate buildings fronting on to Thames Road. Buildings or gates on the south side of Thames Road may therefore carry either Thames Road numbers or Strand on the Green numbers, usually without specifying which. As far as I remember, the situation is not helped by the numbers on the two roads running in different directions. Finding house number X in Thames Road can be difficult! "What is the name of this road" is often a surprisingly difficult question to answer: it is not rare for the two sides of a road to have different names, although this is a particularly unusual example, because there are Thames Road properties on both sides of the road, and there are Strand On The Green properties on both sides of the road, and the experience of someone driving along the road is that both sides of the road are changing name back and forth. In particular, there are some properties numbered as Strand On The Green on the north side of the road east of the point where Thames Road starts, which defeats your argument. Therefore I don't consider my original post to be in need of correction. Just a thought. What you see on Strand on The Green are the backs of the houses. Same as the top end of Park Lane whose "actual address" is far less prestigeous. So possibly in both cases the owners have taken advantage of the fact that their houses stand on two thoroughfares and have chosed the better one - even fitting a letter box if necessary. As you say, "just a thought". If you'd actually been there, you would realise that your thought doesn't match the architecture and position of most of the buildings. Was your previous post pure conjecture as well? -- Richard J. (to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address) |
Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London
On Mon, 28 Jul 2008, michael adams wrote:
"John Rowland" wrote in message ... Richard J. wrote: John Rowland wrote: In Thames Rd aka Strand On The Green, I can't help with your question, but just to correct one point in your post: Thames Road is not "aka" Strand on the Green. The name Strand on the Green is applied both to (a) the riverside village just downstream from Kew Bridge, and (b) within that village the highway along the river bank. That highway starts as a road but the road soon veers away from the river at which point it becomes Thames Road. Strand on the Green (the highway) continues along the river bank as a mere towpath, but still has houses fronting on to it (with postal addresses of xx Strand on the Green) whose land reaches back as far as Thames Road, sometimes with separate buildings fronting on to Thames Road. "What is the name of this road" is often a surprisingly difficult question to answer: it is not rare for the two sides of a road to have different names, although this is a particularly unusual example, because there are Thames Road properties on both sides of the road, and there are Strand On The Green properties on both sides of the road, and the experience of someone driving along the road is that both sides of the road are changing name back and forth. In particular, there are some properties numbered as Strand On The Green on the north side of the road east of the point where Thames Road starts, which defeats your argument. Therefore I don't consider my original post to be in need of correction. Just a thought. What you see on Strand on The Green are the backs of the houses. Same as the top end of Park Lane whose "actual address" is far less prestigeous. So possibly in both cases the owners have taken advantage of the fact that their houses stand on two thoroughfares and have chosed the better one - even fitting a letter box if necessary. And just so lang as there's no intention to decieve that's presumably o.k. Here's another thought: if you had a letterbox on both sides, could you have two addresses? Do addresses in fact belong to letterboxes, and not houses? That's true, mutatis mutandis, of internet addresses and network interfaces. I was very confused when i realised that my computer didn't actually have an internet address, but my network card did! And am still slightly confused by the fact that it's my computer which has the domain name ... isn't it? tom -- an optical recording release. copyright digitally mastered. ., |
Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London
"Richard J." wrote in message om... michael adams wrote: "John Rowland" wrote in message ... Richard J. wrote: John Rowland wrote: In Thames Rd aka Strand On The Green, just west of the railway bridge is an alley called Post Office Alley which contains a small old floodgate at the river end. Set into one wall of this alleyway is a line of solid metal knobs which are shaped like carpentry dovetails. The line is level (i.e. level with a spirit level rather than level with the rather sloping ground). There is nothing in the other side of the alley. I presume they serve some flood defence purpose but I can't figure it out. Any clues? I can't help with your question, but just to correct one point in your post: Thames Road is not "aka" Strand on the Green. The name Strand on the Green is applied both to (a) the riverside village just downstream from Kew Bridge, and (b) within that village the highway along the river bank. That highway starts as a road but the road soon veers away from the river at which point it becomes Thames Road. Strand on the Green (the highway) continues along the river bank as a mere towpath, but still has houses fronting on to it (with postal addresses of xx Strand on the Green) whose land reaches back as far as Thames Road, sometimes with separate buildings fronting on to Thames Road. Buildings or gates on the south side of Thames Road may therefore carry either Thames Road numbers or Strand on the Green numbers, usually without specifying which. As far as I remember, the situation is not helped by the numbers on the two roads running in different directions. Finding house number X in Thames Road can be difficult! "What is the name of this road" is often a surprisingly difficult question to answer: it is not rare for the two sides of a road to have different names, although this is a particularly unusual example, because there are Thames Road properties on both sides of the road, and there are Strand On The Green properties on both sides of the road, and the experience of someone driving along the road is that both sides of the road are changing name back and forth. In particular, there are some properties numbered as Strand On The Green on the north side of the road east of the point where Thames Road starts, which defeats your argument. Therefore I don't consider my original post to be in need of correction. Just a thought. What you see on Strand on The Green are the backs of the houses. Same as the top end of Park Lane whose "actual address" is far less prestigeous. So possibly in both cases the owners have taken advantage of the fact that their houses stand on two thoroughfares and have chosed the better one - even fitting a letter box if necessary. As you say, "just a thought". If you'd actually been there, I've been there any number of times. The houses with the oriel windows are similar in style to those in Park Lane. The rear of the house was intended to provide a view - Park Lane into Hyde Park Strand on The Green onto the River. Weren't you aware of that? Zoffanys House faces the River IIRR. At the time the various houses were built there was no thoroughfare only the Green behind, and houses were built facing in either direction. All were identified simply as Mr X's Hse on the Strand on the Green. When artisan cottages were built on the site of the fornmer Green in the 19th century a thouroughfare was created known as River Road. Occupants of the existing houses on the river side of the road had the option of choosing either address. Over the ensuing years occupants on the opposite side of River Road took advantage of the ambiguity on the Strand on The Green side and upgraded\renamed their properties so as to enhance their percieved value. As advised by their Esarate agents quite possibly. , you would realise that your thought doesn't match the architecture and position of most of the buildings. Was your previous post pure conjecture as well? Are you denying that some houses on the river side of River Road were originally built facing in opposite directions ? Some facing the river and some backing onto it ? If necessary I can post one of of any number of snaps of oriel windows with doors added later to adjacent houses, plus frontages such as Zoffanies house. michael adams .... -- Richard J. (to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address) |
Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London
"Tom Anderson" wrote in message h.li... On Mon, 28 Jul 2008, michael adams wrote: "John Rowland" wrote in message ... Richard J. wrote: John Rowland wrote: In Thames Rd aka Strand On The Green, I can't help with your question, but just to correct one point in your post: Thames Road is not "aka" Strand on the Green. The name Strand on the Green is applied both to (a) the riverside village just downstream from Kew Bridge, and (b) within that village the highway along the river bank. That highway starts as a road but the road soon veers away from the river at which point it becomes Thames Road. Strand on the Green (the highway) continues along the river bank as a mere towpath, but still has houses fronting on to it (with postal addresses of xx Strand on the Green) whose land reaches back as far as Thames Road, sometimes with separate buildings fronting on to Thames Road. "What is the name of this road" is often a surprisingly difficult question to answer: it is not rare for the two sides of a road to have different names, although this is a particularly unusual example, because there are Thames Road properties on both sides of the road, and there are Strand On The Green properties on both sides of the road, and the experience of someone driving along the road is that both sides of the road are changing name back and forth. In particular, there are some properties numbered as Strand On The Green on the north side of the road east of the point where Thames Road starts, which defeats your argument. Therefore I don't consider my original post to be in need of correction. Just a thought. What you see on Strand on The Green are the backs of the houses. Same as the top end of Park Lane whose "actual address" is far less prestigeous. So possibly in both cases the owners have taken advantage of the fact that their houses stand on two thoroughfares and have chosed the better one - even fitting a letter box if necessary. And just so lang as there's no intention to decieve that's presumably o.k. Here's another thought: if you had a letterbox on both sides, could you have two addresses? Do addresses in fact belong to letterboxes, and not houses? All I remember reading is that the first 20 or so houses in Park Lane from the Marble Arch end, aren't actually in Park Lane at all but in Dunraven Street. I don't know what they put on their letterheads. And as Park Lane only has houses on one side....I've never bothered to actually check where No 1 is. michael adams .... That's true, mutatis mutandis, of internet addresses and network interfaces. I was very confused when i realised that my computer didn't actually have an internet address, but my network card did! And am still slightly confused by the fact that it's my computer which has the domain name ... isn't it? tom -- an optical recording release. copyright digitally mastered. ., |
Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London
michael adams wrote:
"Richard J." wrote in message om... michael adams wrote: Just a thought. What you see on Strand on The Green are the backs of the houses. Same as the top end of Park Lane whose "actual address" is far less prestigeous. So possibly in both cases the owners have taken advantage of the fact that their houses stand on two thoroughfares and have chosed the better one - even fitting a letter box if necessary. As you say, "just a thought". If you'd actually been there, I've been there any number of times. The houses with the oriel windows are similar in style to those in Park Lane. The rear of the house was intended to provide a view - Park Lane into Hyde Park[,] Strand on The Green onto the River. Weren't you aware of that? Well, of course the river side of the house was intended to provide a view of the river. That's why it was built in that location. Not sure why you think that's the back of the house, though. Zoffanys House faces the River IIRR. At the time the various houses were built there was no thoroughfare only the Green behind, and houses were built facing in either direction. All were identified simply as Mr X's Hse on the Strand on the Green. If there was only the Green behind, the only thoroughfare was the towpath, so why are you denying that the natural "front" was on the towpath? [snip] ... you would realise that your thought doesn't match the architecture and position of most of the buildings. Was your previous post pure conjecture as well? Are you denying that some houses on the river side of River Road were originally built facing in opposite directions ? Some facing the river and some backing onto it ? Ah, so not all of them backing on to it, as you previously suggested. Since the houses we are talking about mostly pre-date River Road, I'm not sure how you define "facing" and "backing on to" the river and its towpath when those were the only thoroughfares. -- Richard J. (to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address) |
Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London
"Richard J." wrote in message om... michael adams wrote: "Richard J." wrote in message om... michael adams wrote: Just a thought. What you see on Strand on The Green are the backs of the houses. Same as the top end of Park Lane whose "actual address" is far less prestigeous. So possibly in both cases the owners have taken advantage of the fact that their houses stand on two thoroughfares and have chosed the better one - even fitting a letter box if necessary. As you say, "just a thought". If you'd actually been there, I've been there any number of times. The houses with the oriel windows are similar in style to those in Park Lane. The rear of the house was intended to provide a view - Park Lane into Hyde Park[,] Strand on The Green onto the River. Weren't you aware of that? Well, of course the river side of the house was intended to provide a view of the river. That's why it was built in that location. Not sure why you think that's the back of the house, though. Zoffanys House faces the River IIRR. At the time the various houses were built there was no thoroughfare only the Green behind, and houses were built facing in either direction. All were identified simply as Mr X's Hse on the Strand on the Green. If there was only the Green behind, the only thoroughfare was the towpath, .... What I meant was a named thoroughfare. Obviously the residents will have used horses and horsedrawn transport in addition, using an unnamed roadway or pathway around the actual Green. When the houses were built, the whole thing, towpath, houses, and any road or pathway between the green and houses were all known as Strand on the Green. .... so why are you denying that the natural "front" was on the towpath? .... Because as in the City and Westminster, the watergates amd water stairs were at the backs of buildings not at the front. As in Somerset House and all the other large houses which fronted onto the er Strand. Before the Embankment was built. .... [snip] ... you would realise that your thought doesn't match the architecture and position of most of the buildings. Was your previous post pure conjecture as well? Are you denying that some houses on the river side of River Road were originally built facing in opposite directions ? Some facing the river and some backing onto it ? Ah, so not all of them backing on to it, as you previously suggested. .... I was in a rush. And anyway the subsequent influence of Estate agents and the example of Park Lane certainly come into it somewhere. .... Since the houses we are talking about mostly pre-date River Road, I'm not sure how you define "facing" and "backing on to" the river and its towpath when those were the only thoroughfares. .... There was access around the Green. In fact most Greens are deliniated by having a path or roadway running around them. Otherwise they wouldn't be Greens. There are no front doors on the river side of a number of the houses which means that they're backing onto the river. Others have flood barriers and smaller doors. In the houses such as Zoffany's which definitely are facing the river, and even with the smaller artisans cottages further along, the doors are at the top of a flight of steps. It might be found thet a number of the houses still have impressive front doors on their north side, which would formerly have faced the Green. michael adams -- Richard J. (to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address) |
Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London
"Adrian Stott" wrote in message ... On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 00:54:47 +0100, "michael adams" wrote: Obviously the residents will have used horses and horsedrawn transport in addition, using an unnamed roadway or pathway around the actual Green. When the houses were built, the whole thing, towpath, houses, and any road or pathway between the green and houses were all known as Strand on the Green. Was there ever a towpath there? Isn't approaching that bank by boat impossible at low tide? It was the OP who first referred to a "towpath" - quote "Richard J." wrote in message om... Since the houses we are talking about mostly pre-date River Road, I'm not sure how you define "facing" and "backing on to" the river and its towpath when those were the only thoroughfares. /quote I simply went along with his usage so as not to confuse the issue any further. I think that the towpath now is on the other side of the river in this length, next to the navigation channel which has sufficient depth for navigation at low tide. If you insist - picky What's on the opposite bank is a "footpath" - with numerous trees etc between the path and the river which would have ruled out any use of rope, "Towpaths" are most commonly found on canals where horses were used to tow the barges. And where the more normal means of propulsion i.e sail or oar weren't available. /picky For anyone who's interested the railway bridge in the vicinity may have suffered bomb damage during the War as some of the piers are different - plainer and without the original embellishments. This is from the Kew footpath side. There's also one odd pier on the Strand-on-The Green end as well http://i34.tinypic.com/2qicj5t.jpg picture of bridge 800x600 michael adams Adrian . Adrian Stott |
Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London
michael adams wrote:
"Adrian Stott" wrote in message ... On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 00:54:47 +0100, "michael adams" wrote: Obviously the residents will have used horses and horsedrawn transport in addition, using an unnamed roadway or pathway around the actual Green. When the houses were built, the whole thing, towpath, houses, and any road or pathway between the green and houses were all known as Strand on the Green. Was there ever a towpath there? Isn't approaching that bank by boat impossible at low tide? It was the OP who first referred to a "towpath" - quote "Richard J." wrote in message om... Since the houses we are talking about mostly pre-date River Road, I'm not sure how you define "facing" and "backing on to" the river and its towpath when those were the only thoroughfares. /quote I simply went along with his usage so as not to confuse the issue any further. I was using "towpath" to mean the path that runs along the river bank. I wasn't implying that it was used to tow barges or other boats. The word is often used in this wider sense, including several examples on the PLA website. -- Richard J. (to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address) |
Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London
On Jul 27, 1:24*pm, "John Rowland"
wrote: MatSav wrote: "John Rowland" wrote in ... In Thames Rd aka Strand On The Green, just west of the railway bridge is an alley called Post Office Alley which contains a small old floodgate at the river end. Set into one wall of this alleyway is a line of solid metal knobs which are shaped like carpentry dovetails. The line is level (i.e. level with a spirit level rather than level with the rather sloping ground). There is nothing in the other side of the alley. I presume they serve some flood defence purpose but I can't figure it out. Any clues? Photograph he http://americangrey.co.uk/index.php?showimage=489 Thanks! You find the most secret little wonderful place in London... and then you find out that several Beetles movies have been shot there. Sigh. It looks to me like they may just have been some sort of fixing for shuttering when the render was applied to the brickwork - but why is the rendering higher on that wall than the opposite wall? Either that, or there's a mezzanine floor inside the building, and the dovetail joints are exactly that! Here's the pic I took... I should have included that with the first post, but I didn't know how many people would be interested.http://www.geocities.com/pikkulapsi/Rimg0199-mod.jpg Interested? Well, I am. The dovetail 'knobs' do seem to be attached to the ends of large rectangular beams equally spaced. I am wondering whether the building above and to the right of the photo was built up on these beams to keep the floor-level above flood-level, though it sees extravagant to cast them from iron for this purpose. The only function the 'knobs' could have then, would be to aid slinging them into place. Strange though. Tone |
Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London
In message , michael adams
writes What's on the opposite bank is a "footpath" - with numerous trees etc between the path and the river which would have ruled out any use of rope, The trees have all grown since the demise of barge towing. In fact, the chestnuts on the Kew bank, opposite Strand on the Green, were deliberately planted to enhance the view. They were not there in the age of towing for the reason you state. The actual towing path along the Thames was entirely on the south (Surrey) side for many miles upstream of London. There are a few riverside walks on the north bank, but they are not continuous and were never part of an actual towpath. "Towpaths" are most commonly found on canals where horses were used to tow the barges. And where the more normal means of propulsion i.e sail or oar weren't available. There was certainly some towed transport on the Thames, but the river is strongly tidal (originally as far as Kingston) and so most carriers made use of the tides, aided by wind where possible, rather than towing. For anyone who's interested the railway bridge in the vicinity may have suffered bomb damage during the War as some of the piers are different - plainer and without the original embellishments. I think that's more than likely - and also, perhaps, an answer to the OP's query. There was severe damage to the area around Old Post Office Alley in 1940 as the result of a land mine (which destroyed most of the adjacent City Barge pub). I'll try to remember to take a look next time I got to the latter, but I suspect the metal knobs are the ends of tie rods to stop any further bulging of a weakened wall. Although that part of Chiswick now appears peaceful and affluent, it had some nasty scrapes during WW2, including (not far from Strand on the Green) the first V2 rocket to fall on London - hushed-up at the time as a "gas explosion". -- Paul Terry |
OT - Cencus and boat addresses - was(Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London)
In article , Tom
Anderson on Mon, 28 Jul 2008 at 16:43:40 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote On Mon, 28 Jul 2008, michael adams wrote: Here's another thought: if you had a letterbox on both sides, could you have two addresses? Do addresses in fact belong to letterboxes, and not houses? That's true, mutatis mutandis, of internet addresses and network interfaces. I was very confused when i realised that my computer didn't actually have an internet address, but my network card did! And am still slightly confused by the fact that it's my computer which has the domain name ... isn't it? Even more off topic, it is a good job that houses do not have dynamic addressing like many computers, sorry network cards, sorry networks. Would be just like finding 'Holly' last year. For census purposes does a boat have an address, particularly if it is a genuine CC'er? The numbers are probably not significant today, however, how did the census deal with this problem when significant numbers of narrowboat and barge workers, lived aboard and moved round the country on a daily basis? Maybe this should be the subject of a new thread? 'I went to bed on "The Strand" and woke up on "Gas Works Alley".' -- Nicholas David Richards - "Oł sont les neiges d'antan?" |
OT - Cencus and boat addresses - was(Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London)
On Wed, Aug 06, 2008 at 10:24:16AM +0100, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
In article , Tom Anderson said: Here's another thought: if you had a letterbox on both sides, could you have two addresses? Do addresses in fact belong to letterboxes, and not houses? The former. Sort of. The building I live in has three flats in it, numbered 1, 2 and 3. Flats 2 and 3 share a common front door and hallway, having their own doors off that. As far as normal people are concerned, that's three flats and three addresses. Post for flats 2 and 3 is delivered through a single letterbox. Consequently, as far as the post office is concerned, there are only *two* addresses, one for flat 1, and one for the shared letterbox of flats 2 and 3. This is quite irritating, especially when stupid programmers working for stupid companies insist that I tell them my address by typing in my postcode and then selecting one of the addresses that the post office think exist. Normally it doesn't matter, of course, but it does matter when I'm trying to do something like order a pizza late at night and want the delivery boy to ring *my* doorbell and not have to guess at random between mine and my upstairs neighbour's. -- David Cantrell | London Perl Mongers Deputy Chief Heretic comparative and superlative explained: Huhn worse, worser, worsest, worsted, wasted |
OT - Cencus and boat addresses - was(Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London)
David Cantrell wrote:
On Wed, Aug 06, 2008 at 10:24:16AM +0100, Nicholas D. Richards wrote: In article , Tom Anderson said: Here's another thought: if you had a letterbox on both sides, could you have two addresses? Do addresses in fact belong to letterboxes, and not houses? The former. Sort of. The building I live in has three flats in it, numbered 1, 2 and 3. Flats 2 and 3 share a common front door and hallway, having their own doors off that. As far as normal people are concerned, that's three flats and three addresses. Post for flats 2 and 3 is delivered through a single letterbox. Consequently, as far as the post office is concerned, there are only *two* addresses, one for flat 1, and one for the shared letterbox of flats 2 and 3. This is quite irritating, especially when stupid programmers working for stupid companies insist that I tell them my address by typing in my postcode and then selecting one of the addresses that the post office think exist. Normally it doesn't matter, of course, but it does matter when I'm trying to do something like order a pizza late at night and want the delivery boy to ring *my* doorbell and not have to guess at random between mine and my upstairs neighbour's. If the pizza boy has two brain cells to rub together he will figure out that lower flats tend to have lower doorbells, and flats with people awake late at night tend to have lights on. |
OT - Cencus and boat addresses - was(Post Office Alley inChiswick, London)
On Aug 7, 1:23 pm, "John Rowland"
wrote: If the pizza boy has two brain cells to rub together he will figure out that lower flats tend to have lower doorbells, and flats with people awake late at night tend to have lights on. AIUI, this isn't a key criterion applied in pizza boy recruitment. -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org |
OT - Cencus and boat addresses - was(Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London)
On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:06:24 +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
Normally it doesn't matter, of course, but it does matter when I'm trying to do something like order a pizza late at night and want the delivery boy to ring *my* doorbell and not have to guess at random between mine and my upstairs neighbour's. Why doesn't the delivery person just call you? -- jhk |
OT - Cencus and boat addresses - was(Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London)
"Nicholas D. Richards" wrote in message ... Even more off topic, it is a good job that houses do not have dynamic addressing like many computers, sorry network cards, sorry networks. Would be just like finding 'Holly' last year. For census purposes does a boat have an address, particularly if it is a genuine CC'er? The numbers are probably not significant today, however, how did the census deal with this problem when significant numbers of narrowboat and barge workers, lived aboard and moved round the country on a daily basis? Maybe this should be the subject of a new thread? " The enumeration of people not in normal households on census night " http://homepage.ntlworld.com/hitch/gendocs/census2.html Contains a mine of information on such topics. To wit quote VESSELS ENGAGED IN INLAND NAVIGATION ~ [...] From 1871 onwards it became the responsibility of the enumerators to enumerate such vessels. They handed the person in charge of the vessel a ship's schedule, and collected them when completed. The information they contained was then entered into their enumerators' books at the end of the household entries. From 1881 this applied not only to vessels which had been given schedules prior to census day but also to barges and the like which appeared in the enumeration district on that day. Copyright © 1996-2003 John Hitchcock. All rights reserved. /quote michael adams .... 'I went to bed on "The Strand" and woke up on "Gas Works Alley".' -- Nicholas David Richards - "Oł sont les neiges d'antan?" |
OT - Cencus and boat addresses - was(Post Office Alley inChiswick, London)
On Aug 7, 5:49*am, John B wrote:
On Aug 7, 1:23 pm, "John Rowland" wrote: If the pizza boy has two brain cells to rub together he will figure out that lower flats tend to have lower doorbells, and flats with people awake late at night tend to have lights on. AIUI, this isn't a key criterion applied in pizza boy recruitment. Can you not label your bell with your name? |
Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London
Tom Anderson wrote:
Here's another thought: if you had a letterbox on both sides, could you have two addresses? Do addresses in fact belong to letterboxes, and not houses? I take it you know about Baarle-Nassau? I've just noticed that the Westbury Hotel gives its address as The Westbury Hotel Bond Street, Mayfair, London, W1S 2YF I was aware that estate agents have grown Hampstead and Cla'am to cover all London between them, but I was surprised to find that merely sounding like it might be a prestigious address is enough to summon "Bond Street" into existence. |
Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London
On Sat, 9 Aug 2008, John Rowland wrote:
Tom Anderson wrote: Here's another thought: if you had a letterbox on both sides, could you have two addresses? Do addresses in fact belong to letterboxes, and not houses? I take it you know about Baarle-Nassau? Oh yes. Surely everybody knows about Baarle-Nassau? I've just noticed that the Westbury Hotel gives its address as The Westbury Hotel Bond Street, Mayfair, London, W1S 2YF I was aware that estate agents have grown Hampstead and Cla'am to cover all London between them, but I was surprised to find that merely sounding like it might be a prestigious address is enough to summon "Bond Street" into existence. The only question is whether it's the Bond Street in Ealing or the one in Stratford! tom -- Everyone has to die sooner or later, whether they be killed by germs, crushed by a collapsing house, or blown to smithereens by an atom bomb. -- Mao Zedong |
OT - Cencus and boat addresses - was(Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London)
On Thu, Aug 07, 2008 at 01:23:47PM +0100, John Rowland wrote:
If the pizza boy has two brain cells to rub together he will figure out that lower flats tend to have lower doorbells, and flats with people awake late at night tend to have lights on. What if the bells are next to each other, and both flats have *some* lights on? And anyway, if he had two brain cells to rub together he'd be doing something more lucrative than delivering pizzas. -- David Cantrell | London Perl Mongers Deputy Chief Heretic PLEASE NOTE: This message was meant to offend everyone equally, regardless of race, creed, sexual orientation, politics, choice of beer, operating system, mode of transport, or their editor. |
OT - Cencus and boat addresses - was(Post Office Alley in Chiswick, London)
On Fri, Aug 08, 2008 at 11:35:52AM +0200, Jarle H Knudsen wrote:
On Thu, 07 Aug 2008 13:06:24 +0100, David Cantrell wrote: Normally it doesn't matter, of course, but it does matter when I'm trying to do something like order a pizza late at night and want the delivery boy to ring *my* doorbell and not have to guess at random between mine and my upstairs neighbour's. Why doesn't the delivery person just call you? Because I didn't give him my phone number, because the website didn't ask me for it, because the website was designed by idiots who thought that the PAF address would be sufficient. And because my phone is turned off in the evenings. -- David Cantrell | top google result for "topless karaoke murders" Deck of Cards: $1.29. "101 Solitaire Variations" book: $6.59. Cheap replacement for the one thing Windows is good at: priceless -- Shane Lazarus |
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