Blackfriars closure
 

"One of the capital's busiest Underground stations is to shut for nearly
three years. Blackfriars station, used by about 44,000 City workers and
tourists every day, will close for works to upgrade the main line
Thameslink."

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle4467645.ece

March 2009 until late 2011.

"Yesterday's announcement prompted concerns about commuter disruption, with
the nearest Tube stations ten minutes' walk away. There were also fears of
delays to the planned works because Network Rail has been criticised for
presiding over several project overruns."

Nice to see the Times taking the pessimist view...

"Richard Parry, London Underground's director of strategy and service
development, said: "The redevelopment of Blackfriars Underground station is
part of Network Rail works. Once the works are complete, customers will get
a new upgraded station with step-free access, increased capacity and better
interchange facilities between the Tube and national rail services."

Are LU trying here to make this into a NR problem? Presumably NR are
updating Blackfriars underground because as it stands it just won't cope
with the increase in passengers expected. Could it ever have been considered
possible to upgrade the mainline station without the underground? I doubt
it, so why take this line in public?

Far better surely for LU to just announce that the whole station is being
remodelled, and our colleagues at NR are leading the project...

Paul S

Blackfriars closure
 

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...
"One of the capital's busiest Underground stations is to shut for nearly
three years. Blackfriars station, used by about 44,000 City workers and
tourists every day, will close for works to upgrade the main line
Thameslink."

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle4467645.ece

March 2009 until late 2011.

"Yesterday's announcement prompted concerns about commuter disruption,
with the nearest Tube stations ten minutes' walk away. There were also
fears of delays to the planned works because Network Rail has been
criticised for presiding over several project overruns."

Nice to see the Times taking the pessimist view...

"Richard Parry, London Underground's director of strategy and service
development, said: "The redevelopment of Blackfriars Underground station
is part of Network Rail works. Once the works are complete, customers will
get a new upgraded station with step-free access, increased capacity and
better interchange facilities between the Tube and national rail
services."

Are LU trying here to make this into a NR problem? Presumably NR are
updating Blackfriars underground because as it stands it just won't cope
with the increase in passengers expected. Could it ever have been
considered possible to upgrade the mainline station without the
underground? I doubt it, so why take this line in public?

Far better surely for LU to just announce that the whole station is being
remodelled, and our colleagues at NR are leading the project...

Paul S
How long was T4 out of service, until late 2006?

Blackfriars closure
 

Paul Scott wrote:

"One of the capital's busiest Underground stations is to shut for nearly
three years. Blackfriars station, used by about 44,000 City workers and
tourists every day, will close for works to upgrade the main line
Thameslink."

Blackfriars is the station closest to my old school (City of London) and if
it had been closed when I went there I would have been almost permanently
late in the mornings and in the afternoons the combined effect of getting to
the nearest station (Temple?) and the mainline timetable would have almost
doubled my journey home. Nice!

"Richard Parry, London Underground's director of strategy and service
development, said: "The redevelopment of Blackfriars Underground station
is part of Network Rail works. Once the works are complete, customers will
get a new upgraded station with step-free access, increased capacity and
better interchange facilities between the Tube and national rail
services."

Oh yes, I've had *so* many problems interchanging with the current set-up at
Blackfriars!

Blackfriars closure
 

Blackfriars closure
 

"Paul Scott" wrote in
:

"One of the capital's busiest Underground stations is to shut for nearly
three years. Blackfriars station, used by about 44,000 City workers and
tourists every day, will close for works to upgrade the main line
Thameslink."

The network rail media centre has a lovely image of the new South Bank
entrance at Blackfrairs (click on the image for a hi-res version). Not
only is the signage to the London Underground corporate image (I assume the
tube is staying on the North bank) but it is clearly a 4-VEP leaving the
new station ....

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co...ReleaseID=3854
&NewsAreaID=2&SearchCategoryID=2

David

Blackfriars closure
 

In message , Philip
Hardy writes

How long was T4 out of service, until late 2006?

BAA never took the T4 out of service while the underground station was
upgraded ;-)

In reality, very little work was done to the T4 station other than a bit
of a deep clean.

The work was to create the junction for the T5 line and trains couldn't
run
through T4 whilst this was happening, it was not to upgrade T4.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

Blackfriars closure
 

On Aug 6, 7:20*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
"One of the capital's busiest Underground stations is to shut for nearly
three years. Blackfriars station, used by about 44,000 City workers and
tourists every day, will close for works to upgrade the main line
Thameslink."

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to..._sectors/trans...

March 2009 until late 2011.

"Yesterday's announcement prompted concerns about commuter disruption, with
the nearest Tube stations ten minutes' walk away. There were also fears of
delays to the planned works because Network Rail has been criticised for
presiding over several project overruns."

Nice to see the Times taking the pessimist view...

"Richard Parry, London Underground's director of strategy and service
development, said: "The redevelopment of Blackfriars Underground station is
part of Network Rail works. Once the works are complete, customers will get
a new upgraded station with step-free access, increased capacity and better
interchange facilities between the Tube and national rail services."

Are LU trying here to make this into a NR problem? Presumably NR are
updating Blackfriars underground because as it stands it just won't cope
with the increase in passengers expected. Could it ever have been considered
possible to upgrade the mainline station without the underground? I doubt
it, so why take this line in public?

Far better surely for LU to just announce that the whole station is being
remodelled, and our colleagues at NR are leading the project...

Paul S

10 minutes walk? To the nearest tube station? Gasps in horror... You
poor darlings ;-)

Blackfriars closure
 

On 6 Aug, 22:55, darkprince66 wrote:


10 minutes walk? To the nearest tube station? Gasps in horror... You
poor darlings ;-)

I know, that was my reaction. If we weren't spoiled we wouldn't be so
worried. Chancery Lane, Holborn etc aren't far. By the standards of
many towns and cities, Waterloo isn't far.

Francis

Blackfriars closure
 

On Aug 7, 1:48 am, " wrote:
On 6 Aug, 22:55, darkprince66 wrote:



10 minutes walk? To the nearest tube station? Gasps in horror... You
poor darlings ;-)

I know, that was my reaction. If we weren't spoiled we wouldn't be so
worried. Chancery Lane, Holborn etc aren't far. By the standards of
many towns and cities, Waterloo isn't far.

Francis

True, but it still makes you wonder how _necessary_ the closure really
is. As far as I recall, the works are to extend the platforms (to the
south bank) and create four through ones instead of two through and
three bays - I'm sure someone _could_ work out a way to do this
leaving one platform open each time (even if Northbound only or
whatever).

Blackfriars closure
 

wrote in message
...
On Aug 7, 1:48 am, " wrote:
On 6 Aug, 22:55, darkprince66 wrote:



10 minutes walk? To the nearest tube station? Gasps in horror... You
poor darlings ;-)

I know, that was my reaction. If we weren't spoiled we wouldn't be so
worried. Chancery Lane, Holborn etc aren't far. By the standards of
many towns and cities, Waterloo isn't far.

Francis

True, but it still makes you wonder how _necessary_ the closure really
is. As far as I recall, the works are to extend the platforms (to the
south bank) and create four through ones instead of two through and
three bays - I'm sure someone _could_ work out a way to do this
leaving one platform open each time (even if Northbound only or
whatever).

Blackfriars NR station will remain open for most of the time. It is
Blackfriars LUL which is to close (although trains will continue to run
through without stopping). The adjoining stations of Mansion House and
Temple are both less than half a mile away, while interchange passengers
have other stations where they can access the tube network.

The changes to the NR station are to change it from two through platforms,
plus three east side bays, all of 8-car length, to two through 12-car
platforms plus two west side bays. More significant is to rebuild the
circulating areas so that the station can cope with many more passengers,
including many more interchanging with LUL. There will be a new entrance on
teh south bank.

Peter

Blackfriars closure
 

In message , at 20:57:17 on Wed, 6
Aug 2008, Tim Roll-Pickering remarked:
Blackfriars is the station closest to my old school (City of London) and if
it had been closed when I went there I would have been almost permanently
late in the mornings and in the afternoons the combined effect of getting to
the nearest station (Temple?)

Mansion House is much closer, to the East.

and the mainline timetable would have almost doubled my journey home.
Nice!

Nothing suitable available from Cannon St?

"Richard Parry, London Underground's director of strategy and service
development, said: "The redevelopment of Blackfriars Underground station
is part of Network Rail works. Once the works are complete, customers will
get a new upgraded station with step-free access, increased capacity and
better interchange facilities between the Tube and national rail
services."

Oh yes, I've had *so* many problems interchanging with the current set-up at
Blackfriars!

I changed there recently and it was a pain. Needed a National Rail
ticket so up lots of stairs to the ticket office from the tube. I was
then catching a northbound train so had to go downstairs and back up
again.
--
Roland Perry

Blackfriars closure
 

In message of Wed, 6 Aug 2008
20:57:17 in uk.transport.london, Tim Roll-Pickering
writes
Paul Scott wrote:

"One of the capital's busiest Underground stations is to shut for nearly
three years. Blackfriars station, used by about 44,000 City workers and
tourists every day, will close for works to upgrade the main line
Thameslink."

Blackfriars is the station closest to my old school (City of London) and if
it had been closed when I went there I would have been almost permanently
late in the mornings and in the afternoons the combined effect of getting to
the nearest station (Temple?) and the mainline timetable would have almost
doubled my journey home. Nice!

The Journey Planner shows City of London [Boys] School is a 5 minute
walk from Blankfriars and 7 from Mansion House but 15 from Temple.
I fancy that the service withdrawal will not be an acceptable excuse.
I take it you dropped geography, early in your school career. ;)
--
Walter Briscoe

Blackfriars closure
 

"Peter Masson" wrote in message
...

Blackfriars NR station will remain open for most of the time. It is
Blackfriars LUL which is to close (although trains will continue to run
through without stopping). The adjoining stations of Mansion House and
Temple are both less than half a mile away, while interchange passengers
have other stations where they can access the tube network.

I'll wager that Blackfriars became busier last year when
SPILL opened on the Thameslink route. I used to have a
quick hop from KXTL onto the Victoria line, to travel down
to Victoria. When SPILL opened, I was faced with the trek
along the full length of St Pancras and then into the Underground,
or changing at Blackfriars. A no-brainer really.

Other stations? Well, Farringdon may be close(ish) to Blackfriars,
but it's nine stops round the Circle line!

Hoping I don't have to work in Victoria again.
--
Garry Smith

Blackfriars closure
 

"Peter Masson" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Aug 7, 1:48 am, " wrote:
On 6 Aug, 22:55, darkprince66 wrote:



10 minutes walk? To the nearest tube station? Gasps in horror... You
poor darlings ;-)

I know, that was my reaction. If we weren't spoiled we wouldn't be so
worried. Chancery Lane, Holborn etc aren't far. By the standards of
many towns and cities, Waterloo isn't far.

Francis

True, but it still makes you wonder how _necessary_ the closure really
is. As far as I recall, the works are to extend the platforms (to the
south bank) and create four through ones instead of two through and
three bays - I'm sure someone _could_ work out a way to do this
leaving one platform open each time (even if Northbound only or
whatever).

Blackfriars NR station will remain open for most of the time. It is
Blackfriars LUL which is to close (although trains will continue to run
through without stopping). The adjoining stations of Mansion House and
Temple are both less than half a mile away, while interchange passengers
have other stations where they can access the tube network.

The changes to the NR station are to change it from two through platforms,
plus three east side bays, all of 8-car length, to two through 12-car
platforms plus two west side bays. More significant is to rebuild the
circulating areas so that the station can cope with many more passengers,
including many more interchanging with LUL. There will be a new entrance
on
teh south bank.


And still no stop on the W&C Line.

BTN

Blackfriars closure
 

According to this picture of what it'll look like when finished:
http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/ima...lackfriars.jpg

we're getting Mk 1 stock back! Yay!

--
David Cantrell | London Perl Mongers Deputy Chief Heretic

Languages for which ISO-Latin-$n is not necessary, #1 in a series:

Latin

Blackfriars closure
 

wrote in message
...
On Aug 7, 1:48 am, " wrote:
On 6 Aug, 22:55, darkprince66 wrote:



10 minutes walk? To the nearest tube station? Gasps in horror... You
poor darlings ;-)

I know, that was my reaction. If we weren't spoiled we wouldn't be so
worried. Chancery Lane, Holborn etc aren't far. By the standards of
many towns and cities, Waterloo isn't far.

Francis

True, but it still makes you wonder how _necessary_ the closure really
is. As far as I recall, the works are to extend the platforms (to the
south bank) and create four through ones instead of two through and
three bays - I'm sure someone _could_ work out a way to do this
leaving one platform open each time (even if Northbound only or
whatever).

Er.. you've completely missed the point here - the news is about the long
term closure (two and a half years) of the LU platforms, not the Thameslink
ones.

Paul

Blackfriars closure
 

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Aug 7, 1:48 am, " wrote:
On 6 Aug, 22:55, darkprince66 wrote:

10 minutes walk? To the nearest tube station? Gasps in horror... You
poor darlings ;-)

I know, that was my reaction. If we weren't spoiled we wouldn't be so
worried. Chancery Lane, Holborn etc aren't far. By the standards of
many towns and cities, Waterloo isn't far.

Francis

True, but it still makes you wonder how _necessary_ the closure really
is. As far as I recall, the works are to extend the platforms (to the
south bank) and create four through ones instead of two through and
three bays - I'm sure someone _could_ work out a way to do this
leaving one platform open each time (even if Northbound only or
whatever).

Er.. you've completely missed the point here - the news is about the long
term closure (two and a half years) of the LU platforms, not the
Thameslink ones.

Interesting: I'd thought that it was the Thameslink platforms as well.

What are they doing to the LU platforms and access that will take 2½ years?
Obviously it's not track related if trains can still run through non-stop.

Blackfriars closure
 

Mortimer wrote:

Interesting: I'd thought that it was the Thameslink platforms as well.

There will be a major blockade for three/four weeks at London
Blackfriars (mainline) within the next few years (in relation to bridge
works I think). Other than that, the next few years will involve the
closure of the core Thameslink route during weekends and, from December,
weeknights as well. It is possible that some of these closures will
require services to/from London Blackfriars to be bustituted.

What are they doing to the LU platforms and access that will take 2½ years?
Obviously it's not track related if trains can still run through non-stop.

_Thameslink 2000 environmental statement : main report – inner area
(June 2004)_

2.7.6 On the north bank, the existing separate Network Rail and LUL
ticket areas will be combined into a single street level shared ticket
hall, accessed from a new station entrance off Queen Victoria Street.
The existing subway entrance to the station will be closed. A new space
accommodating the entrance, ticket hall and concourse will be created
behind a façade rising to the full height of the existing building at
167-179 Queen Victoria Street, which will be demolished. This new space
will also contain an LUL ventilation shaft and a mezzanine deck but will
otherwise be open to its roof, creating a ‘cathedral entrance’ to the
station. Access down to the Underground and up to the mainline station
will be beyond a shared ticket line via escalators and lifts. The
‘cathedral entrance’ concept supersedes the design described in the 1999
ES, which envisaged a single storey replacement to 167-179 Queen
Victoria Street (albeit one making provision for subsequent development
above it) – the so-called 'missing tooth'. Retail units will be provided
at street level and elsewhere within the station.


_Thameslink 2000 Statement of Case (March 2005)_

4.26 The design of the remodelled Underground Station now involves the
complete demolition of the existing station, apart from the track and
platform edge. It involves the provision within the new station of new
escalators and lifts for those whose mobility is impaired, in addition
to replacement of the existing station facilities and construction of a
combined Underground/National Railway Network.

4.27 The closure of the Underground station during the period that these
works are carried out is necessary because the safety shield required to
separate the works from the running lines will reduce the available
platform area to such an extent that the station cannot be operated
safely for the majority of the construction period. Alternatives (such
as single platform operation and weekend only closures) have been
examined but all scenarios involve the reduction of the platform
available to below an acceptable standard of safety. The construction
strategy will be to close the station; get the work done in the shortest
possible time in the safest possible environment; and re-open to a
completed new station.

4.28 The closure would be for two years. A shield would be constructed
around the track and train envelope along the entire length of the
platforms. This would permit the works to construct the new station to
be carried out at the same time as the through running of District and
Circle Line trains.

Blackfriars closure
 

On 7 Aug, 15:17, "Mortimer" wrote:
"Paul Scott" wrote in message

...







wrote in message
....
On Aug 7, 1:48 am, " wrote:
On 6 Aug, 22:55, darkprince66 wrote:

10 minutes walk? To the nearest tube station? Gasps in horror... You
poor darlings ;-)

I know, that was my reaction. If we weren't spoiled we wouldn't be so
worried. Chancery Lane, Holborn etc aren't far. By the standards of
many towns and cities, Waterloo isn't far.

Francis

True, but it still makes you wonder how _necessary_ the closure really
is. *As far as I recall, the works are to extend the platforms (to the
south bank) and create four through ones instead of two through and
three bays - I'm sure someone _could_ work out a way to do this
leaving one platform open each time (even if Northbound only or
whatever).

Er.. you've completely missed the point here - the news is about the long
term closure (two and a half years) of the LU platforms, not the
Thameslink ones.

Interesting: I'd thought that it was the Thameslink platforms as well.

What are they doing to the LU platforms and access that will take 2½ years?
Obviously it's not track related if trains can still run through non-stop..


Given what happened at Bank ...

I bet there's just one passageway closed or something, which the
dubious simulation software they must be using has calculated to
result in thousands of deaths through overcrowding unless they close
the whole station.

Let's hope that they don't apply the same simulations to stations that
aren't having any work done, or they might realise that they have to
close all of them.

Blackfriars closure
 

MIG wrote:

Given what happened at Bank ...

I bet there's just one passageway closed or something, which the
dubious simulation software they must be using has calculated to
result in thousands of deaths through overcrowding unless they close
the whole station.

I guess you've just read Sky Rider's post by now, saved me looking it up,
cheers

:-)

Paul

Blackfriars closure
 

Roland Perry wrote:

Blackfriars is the station closest to my old school (City of London) and
if
it had been closed when I went there I would have been almost permanently
late in the mornings and in the afternoons the combined effect of getting
to
the nearest station (Temple?)

Mansion House is much closer, to the East.

True but I'd be coming from the west. Not that there's much difference.

and the mainline timetable would have almost doubled my journey home.
Nice!

Nothing suitable available from Cannon St?

I can't remember Epsom ever being served from there. Even when there was an
Epsom to Blackfriars service it was far too slow (and awkwardly timetabled)
to be any use.

Blackfriars closure
 

Walter Briscoe wrote:

Blackfriars is the station closest to my old school (City of London) and
if
it had been closed when I went there I would have been almost permanently
late in the mornings and in the afternoons the combined effect of getting
to
the nearest station (Temple?) and the mainline timetable would have almost
doubled my journey home. Nice!

The Journey Planner shows City of London [Boys] School is a 5 minute walk
from Blankfriars and 7 from Mansion House but 15 from Temple.
I fancy that the service withdrawal will not be an acceptable excuse.
I take it you dropped geography, early in your school career. ;)

I only did it for half a year at CLS (and there's no need to add "[Boys]" to
the title, regardless of the existance of CLSG - it was always "CLS") but
most of the geography I remember from school was physical geography, geology
and human geography rather than distance and location.

And most people tend not to think in terms of doubling back when journey
planning, so someone coming from Victoria or Embankment would instinctively
look to Temple. In any case half the eight minute advantage is swallowed up
by the Temple to Mansion House journey time and my recollection is that
Temple less congested.

The afternoon problem would have been more substantial because of the way
the South West Trains timetable operated - most of the doubled journey would
come from having to wait ages at Waterloo for an all stoppng service if I'd
missed the semi-fast. Morningwise my main source of delays was actually
Connex (or whatever it was called then) trains delaying SWT ones who in turn
missed their Raynes Park clearing, but Blackfriars was close enough to
absorb this without me being late.

Blackfriars closure
 

In message , at
15:17:42 on Thu, 7 Aug 2008, Mortimer remarked:
Er.. you've completely missed the point here - the news is about the long
term closure (two and a half years) of the LU platforms, not the
Thameslink ones.

Interesting: I'd thought that it was the Thameslink platforms as well.

What are they doing to the LU platforms and access that will take 2½ years?

Nothing that couldn't have been planned around at greater cost and
inconvenience to LUL. I expect they want to be able to go from the
current layout to the new one in one "big bang" rather than keep
fiddling around like they did at Kings Cross. And they are closing the
station "because they can".

Obviously it's not track related if trains can still run through non-stop.

Although there might be some changes of levels, I think rebuilding
Westminster subsurface station involved that.
--
Roland Perry

Blackfriars closure
 

Paul Scott wrote:

cheers

:-)

You're welcome.

Blackfriars closure
 

In message , Garry Smith
writes
I'll wager that Blackfriars became busier last year when
SPILL opened on the Thameslink route. I used to have a
quick hop from KXTL onto the Victoria line, to travel down
to Victoria. When SPILL opened, I was faced with the trek
along the full length of St Pancras and then into the Underground,
or changing at Blackfriars. A no-brainer really.

I'm sure you are right. I hardly ever used to use Blackfriars, but
recently have been using it on almost every visit to London, because the
interchange (although involving rather a lot of stairs up from the tube)
is still a whole lot faster than the awful trek the length of
St.Pancras.
If you are carrying luggage or even a heavy laptop computer, the shorter
connection becomes a lot more attractive.

I think it's really terrible that Blackfriars LU station is going to be
closed for so long, and just because of the elf-and-safety mafia, as far
as I can see. Still the M1 roadworks will be finished soon, so I guess
quite a few who have been taking the train from Thameslink stations will
start driving to London again.



--
Clive Page

Blackfriars closure
 

On 10 Aug, 18:23, Clive Page wrote:
I'm sure you are right. I hardly ever used to use Blackfriars, but
recently have been using it on almost every visit to London, because the
interchange (although involving rather a lot of stairs up from the tube)
is still a whole lot faster than the awful trek the length of
St.Pancras.

Err, Farringdon?!

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Blackfriars closure
 

Clive Page wrote:
I'm sure you are right. I hardly ever used to use Blackfriars, but
recently have been using it on almost every visit to London, because the
interchange (although involving rather a lot of stairs up from the tube)
is still a whole lot faster than the awful trek the length of St.Pancras.
If you are carrying luggage or even a heavy laptop computer, the shorter
connection becomes a lot more attractive.

Just out of interest, how busy is Blackfriars tube station compared to,
say, Farringdon tube station?

I think it's really terrible that Blackfriars LU station is going to be
closed for so long, and just because of the elf-and-safety mafia, as far
as I can see.

Indeed. But I see it as a necessary evil for the following reasons:
1) It would take more than 2 additional years to rebuild the tube
station if it was kept open throughout.
2) Based on the above, the tube station would start to become somewhat
more crowded than it is today once the longer Thameslink services begin,
until of course the works are complete - about 2 years later. I'm
assuming that completion of the mainline station does not depend on the
completion of the tube station, and if it did then the intorduction of
Thameslink Key Output 1 services would be delayed.
3) Temple station is only 10 minutes away to the west, and Mansion House
is slightly closer to the east.

Blackfriars closure
 

In message , at 18:23:17 on Sun, 10
Aug 2008, Clive Page remarked:
If you are carrying luggage or even a heavy laptop computer, the
shorter connection becomes a lot more attractive.

The true road warrior takes the precaution of having a light laptop
computer :)
--
Roland Perry