Congestion Charge Consultation
 

On Tue, Sep 02, 2008 at 07:44:55AM +0100, Walter Briscoe wrote:

It looks as if the result will be to modify the implementation.
I go for that. Although I think the western extension was a bad idea, I
think scrapping the hardware would be unconscionable.

Why is scrapping the hardware such a bad idea, given that you think the
extension itself is a bad idea? The hardware is only there because of
the congestion charging area that you want to see got rid of!

In any case, I expect that quite a lot of it is salvageable for re-use
elsewhere or could be sold.

--
David Cantrell | Hero of the Information Age

PERL: Politely Expressed Racoon Love

Congestion Charge Consultation
 

In message of Thu, 4
Sep 2008 12:12:46 in uk.transport.london, David Cantrell
writes
On Tue, Sep 02, 2008 at 07:44:55AM +0100, Walter Briscoe wrote:

It looks as if the result will be to modify the implementation.
I go for that. Although I think the western extension was a bad idea, I
think scrapping the hardware would be unconscionable.

I thought it was a bad idea because the last Mayor's case for it seemed
to be more a question of air quality than congestion. The democratic
case that there was a majority of Londoners in favour of it although
those in the area were against it did not impress me.


Why is scrapping the hardware such a bad idea, given that you think the
extension itself is a bad idea? The hardware is only there because of
the congestion charging area that you want to see got rid of!

I thought introducing it was wrong. I do not see continuing it so.


In any case, I expect that quite a lot of it is salvageable for re-use
elsewhere or could be sold.


I think re-use is not likely. Salvage values are likely to be low.

I view the original Congestion Charge area as a successful prototype.
There is a need for further development before it is fit to be used
elsewhere - including Manchester.

I think road-metering needs to be supported. It would look at the
congestion formed mainly by buses and taxis - many empty - in the
central area. The latter could usefully be encouraged to go elsewhere.
--
Walter Briscoe

Congestion Charge Consultation
 

On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 12:39:14 +0100, Walter Briscoe
wrote:

In message of Thu, 4
Sep 2008 12:12:46 in uk.transport.london, David Cantrell
writes
....
I go for that. Although I think the western extension was a bad idea, I
think scrapping the hardware would be unconscionable.

I thought it was a bad idea because the last Mayor's case for it seemed
to be more a question of air quality than congestion. The democratic
case that there was a majority of Londoners in favour of it although
those in the area were against it did not impress me.

The "air quality" case was a sop to keep the Greens in Ken's camp, as
well as to spin the economic failure of the WEZ. The hardware can go:
plate reading leads to plate cloning, and dodging the fixed cameras
(or their failure rate) can be seen by how often the mobile vans are
parked up right near the entry points.

I think road-metering needs to be supported. It would look at the
congestion formed mainly by buses and taxis - many empty - in the
central area. The latter could usefully be encouraged to go elsewhere.
None of the current plans work as you hope. Taxis are expensive in
London partly due to high upfront costs, the payback is the free ride
in the CZs and most bus lanes. None of the plans could fix the bus
bunching or off peak empty state of some routes (for which shared
taxis a la continent could be tried). See the road pricing as a form
of fiscal gouging with a lash of green paint.

--
Old anti-spam address cmylod at despammed dot com appears broke
So back to cmylod at bigfoot dot com

Congestion Charge Consultation
 

In message of Fri, 5 Sep
2008 16:35:12 in uk.transport.london, Colum Mylod
writes
On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 12:39:14 +0100, Walter Briscoe
wrote:

In message of Thu, 4
Sep 2008 12:12:46 in uk.transport.london, David Cantrell
writes

[snip]

The "air quality" case was a sop to keep the Greens in Ken's camp, as
well as to spin the economic failure of the WEZ. The hardware can go:

I assumed it was an attempt to inflict something perceived as harmful by
Ken's natural opponents. The same applies to Chelsea tractors.

Thos 2 issues caused me to swing my vote. So far, I am pleasantly
surprised I am not yet regretting it.

plate reading leads to plate cloning, and dodging the fixed cameras

Evidence?

(or their failure rate) can be seen by how often the mobile vans are
parked up right near the entry points.

I think road-metering needs to be supported. It would look at the
congestion formed mainly by buses and taxis - many empty - in the
central area. The latter could usefully be encouraged to go elsewhere.

None of the current plans work as you hope. Taxis are expensive in

There is experimental work in Southwark (gantries in Tooley Street)
which may yet bear fruit.

London partly due to high upfront costs, the payback is the free ride
in the CZs and most bus lanes. None of the plans could fix the bus
bunching or off peak empty state of some routes (for which shared
taxis a la continent could be tried). See the road pricing as a form

I hope Ibus will lead to better bus control. I regularly travel in buses
where a PA comes on saying something like "This bus is being held for a
few minutes to regulate the service". I spoke to a driver and was told
they get instructions to wait from a controller and CAN then select the
PA.

of fiscal gouging with a lash of green paint.


I am not yet as cynical as Colum. ;)
--
Walter Briscoe

Congestion Charge Consultation
 

Thos 2 issues caused me to swing my vote. So far, I am pleasantly
surprised I am not yet regretting it.

I'm regretting your vote, particularly after all the fares I commonly
pay were announced as going up between 7.4 and 11.1%. However if you're
happy with the current administration you obviously you like big holes
in the TfL budget, mendacious spin and press bias, fare rises,
congestion, the choice of public transport vehicles based on the
personal whim of someone with no relevant experience, increased
pollution and the scrapping of major improvement projects like partially
pedestrianising Parliament Square (Too expensive! Nasty to motorists!)
and the Cross River Tram. Oh, and consultation in some areas but not in
others, areas that just happen to vote Tory. Brilliant.

What part of reducing traffic on the roads doesn't improve air quality,
anyway?

Tom (just come back through the WEZ in a cab, and it was nice and clear).

Congestion Charge Consultation
 

Tom Barry wrote:
Thos 2 issues caused me to swing my vote. So far, I am pleasantly
surprised I am not yet regretting it.

I'm regretting your vote, particularly after all the fares I commonly
pay were announced as going up between 7.4 and 11.1%. However if
you're happy with the current administration you obviously you like
big holes in the TfL budget, mendacious spin and press bias,

Are you claiming that Boris has caused big holes in the TfL budget (as well
as raising your fares)? There were reports of big holes that Ken left
before the election, but perhaps you think that was press bias, which is
hardly something that has only just appeared.

, fare rises, congestion,

I seem to remember the previous mayor imposed above-inflation fare rises
too, and would probably have done so again had he been re-elected. And
congestion has increased in the original zone since the WEZ was introduced,
has it not?

the choice of public transport vehicles based on the personal whim of
someone with no relevant experience,

Agreed, though we have yet to see this actually happen. I wonder whether
TfL will mount a rearguard action to retain the bendies.

increased pollution

Evidence? Rephasing traffic lights and scrapping the WEZ would arguably
reduce congestion and therefore pollution in the original charging zone.

and the scrapping of major improvement projects like
partially pedestrianising Parliament Square (Too expensive! Nasty to
motorists!) and the Cross River Tram.

You're complaining both about big holes in the TfL budget and about cost
reduction. You can't have it both ways!

Oh, and consultation in some areas but not in others, areas that just
happen to vote Tory.

Not sure what you're referring to there, but Ken's WLT consultation was a
farce, so is Boris really worse?

Despite your allegations of spin and press bias, you seem to be engaging in
those practices yourself. I didn't vote for Boris and I'm not saying he's
doing a good job (yet), but, hey, the election's over!
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

Congestion Charge Consultation
 

On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 16:11:10 +0100, Walter Briscoe
wrote:

In message of Fri, 5 Sep
2008 16:35:12 in uk.transport.london, Colum Mylod
writes
....
plate reading leads to plate cloning, and dodging the fixed cameras

Evidence?

Hard to come by, I admit. The odd article here and there on Welsh
tractors speeding through 100s of miles from home but no solid numbers
on cloning outside of the speculative "1 plate in 6" seen in a journal
of tabloid dimensions. The numbers of unenforced tickets is probably a
better gauge: 25% or so. I do think a PL or Latvian plate (plus
racial-stereotype moustache?) would work out better than a clone GB
plate as the DVLA is poor value for money...
...
None of the current plans work as you hope. Taxis are expensive in

There is experimental work in Southwark (gantries in Tooley Street)
which may yet bear fruit.
Interesting. I still think taxis, black cabs, are akin to private
transport owing to the numbers on accounts and the high prices. The
minicab biz has been heavily loaded by Ken with costs as the non-black
cab lot were tarred and feathered by him as a bad lot. Bus trip 90p,
taxi trip - what is it? - GBP8. Contrast with e.g. Barcelona.
...
of fiscal gouging with a lash of green paint.

I am not yet as cynical as Colum. ;)

Not yet! The current cabinet, in its rush to race to and over the
cliff end, seem to be in love with add-on taxation in Manchester and
Bristol. Boris might row back the WEZ but the stake's in the ground
for additional taxation, and excessive costs for it: Capita might be
on the way out but IBM don't promise much return on the high income.

--
Old anti-spam address cmylod at despammed dot com appears broke
So back to cmylod at bigfoot dot com

Congestion Charge Consultation
 

In message of Sun, 7 Sep
2008 23:26:12 in uk.transport.london, Colum Mylod
writes
On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 16:11:10 +0100, Walter Briscoe
wrote:

In message of Fri, 5 Sep
2008 16:35:12 in uk.transport.london, Colum Mylod
writes

[snip]

None of the current plans work as you hope. Taxis are expensive in

There is experimental work in Southwark (gantries in Tooley Street)
which may yet bear fruit.
Interesting. I still think taxis, black cabs, are akin to private
transport owing to the numbers on accounts and the high prices. The
minicab biz has been heavily loaded by Ken with costs as the non-black
cab lot were tarred and feathered by him as a bad lot. Bus trip 90p,
taxi trip - what is it? - GBP8. Contrast with e.g. Barcelona.
..

I rarely take a taxi and never use minicabs, but, when I do, it rarely
costs less than 12UKP. I think CC gives great benefits to public
transport and it should pay for them. I would prefer cabs to be
encouraged to rank rather than cruise empty. OTOH, we need better ranks.
Liverpool Street, in particular, is a joke since station modernisation.

of fiscal gouging with a lash of green paint.

I am not yet as cynical as Colum. ;)

Not yet! The current cabinet, in its rush to race to and over the
cliff end, seem to be in love with add-on taxation in Manchester and
Bristol. Boris might row back the WEZ but the stake's in the ground
for additional taxation, and excessive costs for it: Capita might be
on the way out but IBM don't promise much return on the high income.


What is proposed for Bristol?
Where does IBM intend to put their call centre? I was interested to hear
Mr Livingstone say that Croydon would have been better than Coventry.
--
Walter Briscoe

Congestion Charge Consultation
 

On Thu, Sep 04, 2008 at 12:39:14PM +0100, Walter Briscoe wrote:

I think road-metering needs to be supported. It would look at the
congestion formed mainly by buses and taxis - many empty - in the
central area. The latter could usefully be encouraged to go elsewhere.

Many empty? I wish they were, then I'd be able to get a taxi when I
want one!

--
David Cantrell | top google result for "topless karaoke murders"

You may now start misinterpreting what I just
wrote, and attacking that misinterpretation.