In article
,
(somersetchris) wrote:

On Sep 17, 7:20*am, asdf wrote:
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:17:34 -0700 (PDT), MIG wrote:
As I understand it, it's shortage of rolling stock which needs
the Euston trains to go to Stratford. With fewer trains on a
Sunday there are some available to go to Euston.

I don't think it is lack of rolling stock, as there are sufficient
units spare (for starters, all three class 508s are available) to
run at least a Euston - Willesden Jcn shuttle. However, there
would be a probably be a lack of paths between Queens Park and
Willesden Junction due to the increased Bakerloo service at
least during the peaks.-

I was just gonna say, presumably the 508s can't be used for any
services other than into Euston, and with so many lines closed,
there
can't be a shortage.

Can't Watford Junction to Stratford be done entirely on DC? (There's
a
dual-electrified stretch where the 313s normally switch to AC, but
presumably DC can still be used.)

(Not that there can possibly be a stock shortage. If there's enough
stock to run the normal Euston-Watford and NLL services, then there's
enough to run Euston-Watford as normal and Stratford to Willesden Jn
going via Primrose Hill instead of West Hampstead.)

The reason why the trains switch to AC is because trains using the DC
stretch along there would have to go at half power.

Isn't that just a general feature of the 313s? As built for the GN they
ran in series only on DC because the Northern City Line section is
limited to 30 MPH anyway. It doesn't affect the 508s and I thought the
313s transferred to the NLL/Euston Watford Service were modified.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Sep 17, 4:34*pm, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article
,







(somersetchris) wrote:
On Sep 17, 7:20*am, asdf wrote:
On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:17:34 -0700 (PDT), MIG wrote:
As I understand it, it's shortage of rolling stock which needs
the Euston trains to go to Stratford. With fewer trains on a
Sunday there are some available to go to Euston.

I don't think it is lack of rolling stock, as there are sufficient
units spare (for starters, all three class 508s are available) to
run at least a Euston - Willesden Jcn shuttle. However, there
would be a probably be a lack of paths between Queens Park and
Willesden Junction due to the increased Bakerloo service at
least during the peaks.-

I was just gonna say, presumably the 508s can't be used for any
services other than into Euston, and with so many lines closed,
there
can't be a shortage.

Can't Watford Junction to Stratford be done entirely on DC? (There's
a
dual-electrified stretch where the 313s normally switch to AC, but
presumably DC can still be used.)

(Not that there can possibly be a stock shortage. If there's enough
stock to run the normal Euston-Watford and NLL services, then there's
enough to run Euston-Watford as normal and Stratford to Willesden Jn
going via Primrose Hill instead of West Hampstead.)

The reason why the trains switch to AC is because trains using the DC
stretch along there would have to go at half power.

Isn't that just a general feature of the 313s? As built for the GN they
ran in series only on DC because the Northern City Line section is
limited to 30 MPH anyway. It doesn't affect the 508s and I thought the
313s transferred to the NLL/Euston Watford Service were modified.


Yes, I think this is the case. The Northern City trains are limited to
30 mph in the tunnels anyway. I don't think that there is any
difference in the power available under DC or AC. If there was any DC
speed limiters on the original units, they have certainly been removed
from the NLL units.

On 17 Sep, 06:25, Jamie Thompson wrote:
Given the works to be/being performed to enlarge the Hampstead tunnel
and bridges on the Gospel Oak routes to enable more freight to reach
the WCML without crossing the GEML or using the NLL,

This only applies to freight from the Tilbury direction. The NLL is
still going to be the most practical route for GEML freight. See the
diagram he
http://londonconnections.blogspot.co...on-is-for.html

A lot of other current NLL traffic could not easily be diverted away.
We're a long way from it being a segregated passenger route.

U

In article
,
(Andy) wrote:

On Sep 17, 4:34*pm, (Colin Rosenstiel) wrote:
In article
,
(somersetchris) wrote:

The reason why the trains switch to AC is because trains using the
DC stretch along there would have to go at half power.

Isn't that just a general feature of the 313s? As built for the GN
they ran in series only on DC because the Northern City Line section
is limited to 30 MPH anyway. It doesn't affect the 508s and I thought

the 313s transferred to the NLL/Euston Watford Service were modified.

Yes, I think this is the case. The Northern City trains are limited to
30 mph in the tunnels anyway. I don't think that there is any
difference in the power available under DC or AC. If there was any DC
speed limiters on the original units, they have certainly been removed
from the NLL units.

I don't think there was anything to "remove". The DC controls were
series-only. They would have had to be modified for full series-parallel
control, something not quite so simple.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 18 Sep, 01:09, Mr Thant
wrote:
On 17 Sep, 06:25, Jamie *Thompson wrote:

Given the works to be/being performed to enlarge the Hampstead tunnel
and bridges on the Gospel Oak routes to enable more freight to reach
the WCML without crossing the GEML or using the NLL,

This only applies to freight from the Tilbury direction. The NLL is
still going to be the most practical route for GEML freight. See the
diagram hehttp://londonconnections.blogspot.co...ground-disrupt...

A lot of other current NLL traffic could not easily be diverted away.
We're a long way from it being a segregated passenger route.

U

Well, if TPTB were so inclined, a (relatively) simple bridged curve
could connect the GEML slows to the Goblin:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ie=...ac71f8b35d6743
....I think there's ample room.

Just out of interest, what sort of "other current" traffic does the
NLL have, other than passengers, GEML freight, and Tilbury freight
(which I'm guessing includes all chunnel traffic)? I can't think of
anything else.

On 18 Sep, 01:09, Mr Thant
wrote:
On 17 Sep, 06:25, Jamie Thompson wrote:

Given the works to be/being performed to enlarge the Hampstead tunnel
and bridges on the Gospel Oak routes to enable more freight to reach
the WCML without crossing the GEML or using the NLL,

This only applies to freight from the Tilbury direction. The NLL is
still going to be the most practical route for GEML freight. See the
diagram hehttp://londonconnections.blogspot.co...ground-disrupt...

A lot of other current NLL traffic could not easily be diverted away.
We're a long way from it being a segregated passenger route.

U

Well, if TPTB were so inclined, a (relatively) simple bridged curve
could connect the GEML slows to the Goblin:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ie=...ac71f8b35d6743
....I think there's ample room.

Just out of interest, what sort of "other current" traffic does the
NLL have, other than passengers, GEML freight, and Tilbury freight
(which I'm guessing includes all chunnel traffic)? I can't think of
anything else.

On 18 Sep, 22:07, Jamie Thompson wrote:
Well, if TPTB were so inclined, a (relatively) simple bridged curve
could connect the GEML slows to the Goblin:http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ie=...=51.550665,0.0...
...I think there's ample room.

GEML freight runs on the fasts, on the north side.

Just out of interest, what sort of "other current" traffic does the
NLL have, other than passengers, GEML freight, and Tilbury freight
(which I'm guessing includes all chunnel traffic)? I can't think of
anything else.

The connections at the other end are more important - the Goblin has
no equivalent to Canonbury tunnel, meaning southbound ECML trains
can't get onto it eaily. Plus anything electric. Plus various
occasional traffic like diverted sleepers heading for the ECML.

U

"Mr Thant" wrote

The connections at the other end are more important - the Goblin has
no equivalent to Canonbury tunnel, meaning southbound ECML trains
can't get onto it eaily. Plus anything electric. Plus various
occasional traffic like diverted sleepers heading for the ECML.

OTOH there is no access from the NLL to the MML, whereas from the Goblin
there is the connection via Junction Road Junction.

Peter

On Fri, 19 Sep 2008, Peter Masson wrote:

"Mr Thant" wrote

The connections at the other end are more important - the Goblin has no
equivalent to Canonbury tunnel, meaning southbound ECML trains can't
get onto it eaily. Plus anything electric. Plus various occasional
traffic like diverted sleepers heading for the ECML.

OTOH there is no access from the NLL to the MML, whereas from the Goblin
there is the connection via Junction Road Junction.

That is a brilliant name for a junction.

tom

--
got a DOCTORATE in cold ROCKIN' IT

"Tom Anderson" wrote

Junction Road Junction.

That is a brilliant name for a junction.

When it had a signalbox with that as its name plate it ought to have been
twinned with Box, where the box nameplate read 'Box Signal Box'

Peter