Crossrail Update
 

On Sep 24, 9:13*am, allan tracy wrote:
According to Private Eye, the ‘it's all gone quiet’ surrounding the
Crossrail project is due to the treasury having not yet signed off on
it.

Rumour is they won’t either and that the DfT is working furiously on a
cut down cheaper version involving tube size tunnels.

Perhaps with the current financial crisis, it’s not anticipated that
quite so many will be commuting to the City in future years.

This, if true, is very bad news. The day will come when Londonners
will regret it.

Adrian

Crossrail Update
 

On 24 Sep, 20:48, 1506 wrote:
On Sep 24, 9:13 am, allan tracy wrote:

According to Private Eye, the ‘it's all gone quiet’ surrounding the
Crossrail project is due to the treasury having not yet signed off on
it.

Rumour is they won’t either and that the DfT is working furiously on a
cut down cheaper version involving tube size tunnels.

Perhaps with the current financial crisis, it’s not anticipated that
quite so many will be commuting to the City in future years.

This, if true, is very bad news. The day will come when Londonners
will regret it.

Just remember that the current estimated cost of Crossrail is the same
as the Jubilee Line Extension (roughly the same length of tunnel,
twice as many stations) AND the Channel Tunnel Rail Link (same length
of tunnel plus 60 miles of track) AND the WCML works (revamp of 400+
route miles, Trent Valley quadrupling) PUT TOGETHER.

Ian

Crossrail Update
 

The Real Doctor wrote:
On 24 Sep, 20:48, 1506 wrote:
On Sep 24, 9:13 am, allan tracy wrote:

According to Private Eye, the ‘it's all gone quiet’ surrounding the
Crossrail project is due to the treasury having not yet signed off on
it.
Rumour is they won’t either and that the DfT is working furiously on a
cut down cheaper version involving tube size tunnels.
Perhaps with the current financial crisis, it’s not anticipated that
quite so many will be commuting to the City in future years.
This, if true, is very bad news. The day will come when Londonners
will regret it.

Just remember that the current estimated cost of Crossrail is the same
as the Jubilee Line Extension (roughly the same length of tunnel,
twice as many stations) AND the Channel Tunnel Rail Link (same length
of tunnel plus 60 miles of track) AND the WCML works (revamp of 400+
route miles, Trent Valley quadrupling) PUT TOGETHER.

Ian

???? Crossrail £13.?bn, WCRM £9bn, CTRL £4bn... Jubilee line
extension... hundreds of thousands?

Crossrail Update
 

On Sep 24, 3:07*pm, The Real Doctor wrote:
On 24 Sep, 20:48, 1506 wrote:

On Sep 24, 9:13 am, allan tracy wrote:

According to Private Eye, the ‘it's all gone quiet’ surrounding the
Crossrail project is due to the treasury having not yet signed off on
it.

Rumour is they won’t either and that the DfT is working furiously on a
cut down cheaper version involving tube size tunnels.

Perhaps with the current financial crisis, it’s not anticipated that
quite so many will be commuting to the City in future years.

This, if true, is very bad news. *The day will come when Londonners
will regret it.

Just remember that the current estimated cost of Crossrail is the same
as the Jubilee Line Extension (roughly the same length of tunnel,
twice as many stations) AND the Channel Tunnel Rail Link (same length
of tunnel plus 60 miles of track) AND the WCML works (revamp of 400+
route miles, Trent Valley quadrupling) PUT TOGETHER.

Ian

That figure sounds high to me.

The passenger carryings on Crossrail may render it one of the world's
most utilized railway lines. It will not quite have the cappacity of
a Paris RER line.

IMHO there is not chioce Crossrail has to be built.

Crossrail Update
 

On Sep 24, 3:07*pm, The Real Doctor wrote:
On 24 Sep, 20:48, 1506 wrote:

On Sep 24, 9:13 am, allan tracy wrote:

According to Private Eye, the ‘it's all gone quiet’ surrounding the
Crossrail project is due to the treasury having not yet signed off on
it.

Rumour is they won’t either and that the DfT is working furiously on a
cut down cheaper version involving tube size tunnels.

Perhaps with the current financial crisis, it’s not anticipated that
quite so many will be commuting to the City in future years.

This, if true, is very bad news. *The day will come when Londonners
will regret it.

Just remember that the current estimated cost of Crossrail is the same
as the Jubilee Line Extension (roughly the same length of tunnel,
twice as many stations) AND the Channel Tunnel Rail Link (same length
of tunnel plus 60 miles of track) AND the WCML works (revamp of 400+
route miles, Trent Valley quadrupling) PUT TOGETHER.

Ian

That figure sounds high to me.

The passenger carryings on Crossrail may render it one of the world's
most utilized railway lines. It will not quite have the cappacity of
a Paris RER line.


IMHO, there is no choice, Crossrail has to be built.

Crossrail Update
 

On Sep 24, 8:48 pm, 1506 wrote:
On Sep 24, 9:13 am, allan tracy wrote:

According to Private Eye, the ‘it's all gone quiet’ surrounding the
Crossrail project is due to the treasury having not yet signed off on
it.

Rumour is they won’t either and that the DfT is working furiously on a
cut down cheaper version involving tube size tunnels.


Would there be any point in a new east-west tube line? Does the
central line need relieving much? I suppose if it headed off to
Thamesmead or hackney if could have some purpose but it would stilll
duplicate a lot of the central/jubilee without solving the original
crossrail issue.

B2003

Crossrail Update
 

"Boltar" wrote

Would there be any point in a new east-west tube line? Does the
central line need relieving much?

The initial motivation for a new east-west cross-London line, which was
developed into Crossrail, was the severe overcrowding of the Central Line,
especially between Stratford and Chancery Lane.

Peter

Crossrail Update
 

"1506" wrote in message
...
On Sep 24, 9:13 am, allan tracy wrote:
According to Private Eye, the ‘it's all gone quiet’ surrounding the
Crossrail project is due to the treasury having not yet signed off on
it.

Rumour is they won’t either and that the DfT is working furiously on a
cut down cheaper version involving tube size tunnels.

Perhaps with the current financial crisis, it’s not anticipated that
quite so many will be commuting to the City in future years.

?This, if true, is very bad news. The day will come when Londonners
?will regret it.

Regret what? The jobs have been moving out of central cities at a rapid
rate for a long time. The need for transit will continue to shrink as the
jobs move away from the city to the better jobs elsewhere.

Crossrail Update
 

On Sep 27, 1:20*am, "Jack May" wrote:

Regret what? *The jobs have been moving out of central cities at a rapid
rate for a long time. *The need for transit will continue to shrink as the
jobs move away from the city to the better jobs elsewhere.

Which of course is one reason why we need projects like this, to boost
city centres and sustainable employment patterns - working in the
suburbs will be car-based, with all the congestion/pollution/carbon
emissions problems associated. And note that we're talking about
Britain here, where there hasn't been the same flight to the suburbs
as in North America.
Tim

Crossrail Update
 

"TimB" wrote in message

On Sep 27, 1:20 am, "Jack May" wrote:

Regret what? The jobs have been moving out of central cities at a
rapid rate for a long time. The need for transit will continue to
shrink as the jobs move away from the city to the better jobs
elsewhere.

Which of course is one reason why we need projects like this, to boost
city centres and sustainable employment patterns - working in the
suburbs will be car-based, with all the congestion/pollution/carbon
emissions problems associated. And note that we're talking about
Britain here, where there hasn't been the same flight to the suburbs
as in North America.

Indeed, the number of jobs in London Docklands has been rocketing, and I
don't think there's a long-term trend for them to fall elsewhere in
central London (though there may be some property 'voids' in the short
term).

Crossrail Update
 

Boltar wrote:

Would there be any point in a new east-west tube line? Does the
central line need relieving much?

Hell yes. Go to Bank* station on a weekday at 5pm and see how many
trains you have to wait for before you get to crush yourself onto one.
It's not exactly quiet off peak either. And the Central Line's recently
modernised, which added capacity.

Really, this is silly. It's my view that CrossRail is needed. It's very
expensive, but very important. The government need to decide if it's
going to happen or not and then either do it properly or forget about
it. London does not need or deserve a fudge and if that's what happens -
1506 said it - they'll regret it.

Philip.

* The Northern Line's just as bad, if not worse. The Thameslink upgrade
many help here.

Crossrail Update
 

Philip Hardy wrote:
Boltar wrote:

Would there be any point in a new east-west tube line? Does the
central line need relieving much?

Hell yes. Go to Bank* station on a weekday at 5pm and see how many
trains you have to wait for before you get to crush yourself onto one.
It's not exactly quiet off peak either. And the Central Line's
recently modernised, which added capacity.

Most tube lines at 5pm on a weekday in the city have trains that you have
to squeeze in to. It's part of the fun of commuting in London. Well, fun
if you are pressed up closely to some nice woman, but not as nice on a hot
day if you've some fat sweaty herbert holding a ceiling strap in front of
your face!!!

Really, this is silly. It's my view that CrossRail is needed. It's
very expensive, but very important. The government need to decide if
it's going to happen or not and then either do it properly or forget
about it. London does not need or deserve a fudge and if that's what
happens - 1506 said it - they'll regret it.

CrossRail has been needed for years. But the Government fudges rail
projects in the main in favour of road expansion.

Crossrail Update
 

On Oct 1, 1:02*pm, "Stephen O'Connell" wrote:
Hell yes. Go to Bank* station on a weekday at 5pm and see how many
trains you have to wait for before you get to crush yourself onto one.
It's not exactly quiet off peak either. And the Central Line's
recently modernised, which added capacity.

Most tube lines at 5pm on a weekday in the city have trains that you have
to squeeze in to. It's part of the fun of commuting in London. Well, fun
if you are pressed up closely to some nice woman, but not as nice on a hot
day if you've some fat sweaty herbert holding a ceiling strap in front of
your face!!!

The difference is that on most lines, there are actually trains that
it's possible to squeeze into (this said as a seasoned Victoria Line
pro not some kind of effete non-Londoner). On the Central at Bank at 5
(or at Bethnal Green at 8:30), there physically aren't.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Crossrail Update
 

On Sep 26, 5:20*pm, "Jack May" wrote:
"1506" wrote in message

...
On Sep 24, 9:13 am, allan tracy wrote:

According to Private Eye, the ‘it's all gone quiet’ surrounding the
Crossrail project is due to the treasury having not yet signed off on
it.

Rumour is they won’t either and that the DfT is working furiously on a
cut down cheaper version involving tube size tunnels.

Perhaps with the current financial crisis, it’s not anticipated that
quite so many will be commuting to the City in future years.

?This, if true, is very bad news. *The day will come when Londonners
?will regret it.

Regret what? *The jobs have been moving out of central cities at a rapid
rate for a long time. *The need for transit will continue to shrink as the
jobs move away from the city to the better jobs elsewhere.

The Merchant Banker, May, speaks again.

Jack, how often have you commuted in Greater London?

Crossrail Update
 

"Stephen O'Connell" wrote in message
...

Most tube lines at 5pm on a weekday in the city have trains that you have
to squeeze in to. It's part of the fun of commuting in London. Well, fun
if you are pressed up closely to some nice woman, but not as nice on a hot
day if you've some fat sweaty herbert holding a ceiling strap in front of
your face!!!

Or worse still, some arrogant f**fer wh can't wait for the next train so you
have his groin presses into you arse.

CrossRail has been needed for years. But the Government fudges rail
projects in the main in favour of road expansion.


And what road building schemes have Nu Labour invested in in the last 11
years while they have done nothing on Cross Rail and come to that the Tories
before didn't engage in any massive road building programmes so in all that
is a red herring.

Crossrail Update
 

Zen83237 wrote:
"Stephen O'Connell" wrote in message
...

Most tube lines at 5pm on a weekday in the city have trains that you
have to squeeze in to. It's part of the fun of commuting in London.
Well, fun if you are pressed up closely to some nice woman, but not
as nice on a hot day if you've some fat sweaty herbert holding a
ceiling strap in front of your face!!!

Or worse still, some arrogant f**fer wh can't wait for the next train
so you have his groin presses into you arse.

Yeah but those people do that deliberately!

Crossrail Update
 

On 3 Oct, 19:03, "Zen83237" wrote:
Most tube lines at 5pm on a weekday in the city have trains that you have
to squeeze in to. It's part of the fun of commuting in London. Well, fun
if you are pressed up closely to some nice woman, but not as nice on a hot
day if you've some fat sweaty herbert holding a ceiling strap in front of
your face!!!

Or worse still, some arrogant f**fer wh can't wait for the next train so you
have his groin presses into you arse.

********. If he's physically capable of getting on the train, then
he's doing the right thing by doing so; if you don't like it then you
should move to the countryside or travel at a time where your delicate
sensibilities are less offended.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Crossrail Update
 

On Sat, 4 Oct 2008 11:53:18 +0100, John B wrote
On 3 Oct, 19:03, "Zen83237" wrote:
Most tube lines at 5pm on a weekday in the city have trains that you have
to squeeze in to. It's part of the fun of commuting in London. Well, fun
if you are pressed up closely to some nice woman, but not as nice on a hot
day if you've some fat sweaty herbert holding a ceiling strap in front of
your face!!!

Or worse still, some arrogant f**fer wh can't wait for the next train so you
have his groin presses into you arse.

********. If he's physically capable of getting on the train, then
he's doing the right thing by doing so; if you don't like it then you
should move to the countryside or travel at a time where your delicate
sensibilities are less offended.

'delicate sensibilities' are perhaps what used to be known as 'polite,
civilised behaviour'

Crossrail Update
 

On Sep 24, 9:13*am, allan tracy wrote:

According to Private Eye, the ‘it's all gone quiet’ surrounding the
Crossrail project is due to the treasury having not yet signed off on
it.

Rumour is they won’t either and that the DfT is working furiously on a
cut down cheaper version involving tube size tunnels.

Perhaps with the current financial crisis, it’s not anticipated that
quite so many will be commuting to the City in future years.

This, if true, is fantastic news.

I can't think of a single other project that's so deliberately
destructive of london's history; there was no need to destroy the much
loved Astoria when they could demolish the much despised Centrepoint;
there was no need to totally **** up the tube map when it would be
much more traffic-alleviating to divert the route via green park,
charing cross, aldwych, and then holborn.

Crossrail Update
 

On Sat, 4 Oct 2008 14:27:32 +0100, lonelytraveller wrote

I can't think of a single other project that's so deliberately
destructive of london's history; there was no need to destroy the much
loved Astoria when they could demolish the much despised Centrepoint;

Others would, of course, say that the Astoria is of little architectural
merit and that Centre Point was a icon of 60's design and a milestone in
Richard Seifert's career.

I suspect no-one would, however, argue that the piazza underneath and
surrounding the building was anything other than a disaster although, of
course, this wasn't completed to Siefert's and the LCC's original plans.

Crossrail Update
 

The "much loved" Astoria is in really bad state and shadow of the
former self - not much regret here (from a regular visitor).

Crossrail Update
 

In message
, at
03:50:23 on Mon, 6 Oct 2008, Alex
remarked:
The "much loved" Astoria is in really bad state and shadow of the
former self - not much regret here (from a regular visitor).

Is it suffering from planning blight though?
--
Roland Perry

Crossrail Update
 

On Sat, Oct 04, 2008 at 06:27:32AM -0700, lonelytraveller wrote:

I can't think of a single other project that's so deliberately
destructive of london's history; there was no need to destroy the much
loved Astoria ...

The Astoria is a ****-hole. The only thing wrong with demolishing it is
that when its replacement is built (for yes, the plans are to build a
replacement as part of the Crossrail station) it will be an equally
hideous corporate theatre ****-hole.

--
David Cantrell | top google result for "internet beard fetish club"

Googling for "Swedish lizard overlord" gives
this sig as the first result.

WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU, EH? EH?

Crossrail Update
 

On Oct 4, 11:53 am, John B wrote:
On 3 Oct, 19:03, "Zen83237" wrote:

Most tube lines at 5pm on a weekday in the city have trains that you have
to squeeze in to. It's part of the fun of commuting in London. Well, fun
if you are pressed up closely to some nice woman, but not as nice on a hot
day if you've some fat sweaty herbert holding a ceiling strap in front of
your face!!!

Or worse still, some arrogant f**fer wh can't wait for the next train so you
have his groin presses into you arse.

********. If he's physically capable of getting on the train, then
he's doing the right thing by doing so; if you don't like it then you
should move to the countryside or travel at a time where your delicate
sensibilities are less offended.

Physically getting on the train in those situations usually involves
shoving hard on the people already in there. You think thats ok?

I've been in that situation a few times where I'm already halfway out
of the door and some bugger tries to push me in. If they do manage to
get in I make damn sure its the most uncomfortable journey they've
ever had by flattening them against the door.

B2003

Crossrail Update
 

On Oct 4, 2:27 pm, lonelytraveller
wrote:
loved Astoria when they could demolish the much despised Centrepoint;

I quite like centrepoint. As far as 60s/70s towers go its one of the
better ones.

B2003

Crossrail Update
 

On Mon, Oct 06, 2008 at 12:17:46PM +0100, Roland Perry wrote:
on Mon, 6 Oct 2008, Alex
remarked:
The "much loved" Astoria is in really bad state and shadow of the
former self - not much regret here (from a regular visitor).
Is it suffering from planning blight though?

No, it's been a hole for years.

--
David Cantrell | London Perl Mongers Deputy Chief Heretic

All praise the Sun God
For He is a Fun God
Ra Ra Ra!

Crossrail Update
 

"Zen83237" writes:

Or worse still, some arrogant f**fer wh can't wait for the next train so you
have his groin presses into you arse.

I have been in such a situation and did wait for the next train, but
that was just as crowded as was the one after that. I was not prepared
to wait any longer, so pushed my way onto the third train along with
everyone else.

Crossrail Update
 

On Oct 6, 4:35*pm, Boltar wrote:
On Oct 4, 2:27 pm, lonelytraveller

wrote:
loved Astoria when they could demolish the much despised Centrepoint;

I quite like centrepoint. As far as 60s/70s towers go its one of the
better ones.

The tower isn't the thing on my mind every time my mind boggles yet
again at the attitudes that must have prevailed in so many minds and
institutions at the same time when a whole block was built in the
centre of a city without a pavement to walk on.

Crossrail Update
 

MIG wrote:
On Oct 6, 4:35 pm, Boltar wrote:
On Oct 4, 2:27 pm, lonelytraveller

wrote:
loved Astoria when they could demolish the much despised Centrepoint;
I quite like centrepoint. As far as 60s/70s towers go its one of the
better ones.

The tower isn't the thing on my mind every time my mind boggles yet
again at the attitudes that must have prevailed in so many minds and
institutions at the same time when a whole block was built in the
centre of a city without a pavement to walk on.

Didn't the mindset go:

1) The USA is wonderful
2) No one walks in the USA
3) Ergo no provision for pedestrians is wonderful.

A lot of modern buildings on TCR northbound are set back, indicating a
desire at some point to widen the street, which may have contributed to
the lack of pedestrian access.

A study of changing attitudes to the USA over the last sixty years is
instructive - my grandad, who was Irish from the generation that still
saw emigration westwards as something that happened to extra good boys,
thought gold grew out of the streets there. My Dad grew up at the time
of Vietnam and has a substantially more jaundiced view. I, growing up
in the 1980s, think it's a nice place to visit but as a country it's
nothing special and could do with a tidy up and a lick of paint. Much
prefer European cities like Brussels, personally.

Tom

Crossrail Update
 

On Oct 8, 12:32*pm, Tom Barry wrote:
MIG wrote:
On Oct 6, 4:35 pm, Boltar wrote:
On Oct 4, 2:27 pm, lonelytraveller

wrote:
loved Astoria when they could demolish the much despised Centrepoint;
I quite like centrepoint. As far as 60s/70s towers go its one of the
better ones.

The tower isn't the thing on my mind every time my mind boggles yet
again at the attitudes that must have prevailed in so many minds and
institutions at the same time when a whole block was built in the
centre of a city without a pavement to walk on.

Didn't the mindset go:

1) The USA is wonderful
2) No one walks in the USA
3) Ergo no provision for pedestrians is wonderful.

A lot of modern buildings on TCR northbound are set back, indicating a
desire at some point to widen the street, which may have contributed to
the lack of pedestrian access.

A study of changing attitudes to the USA over the last sixty years is
instructive - my grandad, who was Irish from the generation that still
saw emigration westwards as something that happened to extra good boys,
thought gold grew out of the streets there. *My Dad grew up at the time
of Vietnam and has a substantially more jaundiced view. *I, growing up
in the 1980s, think it's a nice place to visit but as a country it's
nothing special and could do with a tidy up and a lick of paint. *Much
prefer European cities like Brussels, personally.

I rather like Cardiff. A pity Crossrail won't go that far (dragging
it back to the thread).

Crossrail Update
 

"MIG" wrote in message
...
On Oct 6, 4:35 pm, Boltar wrote:
On Oct 4, 2:27 pm, lonelytraveller

wrote:
loved Astoria when they could demolish the much despised
Centrepoint;

I quite like centrepoint. As far as 60s/70s towers go its one of
the
better ones.

The tower isn't the thing on my mind every time my mind boggles yet
again at the attitudes that must have prevailed in so many minds and
institutions at the same time when a whole block was built in the
centre of a city without a pavement to walk on.

There is a pavement to walk on. It was assumed that the Barbican
"highwalks" would have spread all across London

We got five ring roads from the planner kings (or at least a partial
try)
And Jubilee and Victoria in their halls of stone
No highwalks for pedestrians, still doomed to die
No Orbrail then for railways, who once ruled the throne.
But there's one mode that rules them all, although they won't admit
it.
For fast, fun trips around our town, ride a bike, you won't regret
it.

Jeremy Parker