New subsurface trains
 

Whilst escaping from rain in Euston today I popped in to see the model.
Amongst the features of interest:

* The carriages have a strong overground feel to them, both on the outside
and inside.

* The carriages are linked like current DLR cars and trams with passengers
able to walk the length of the train. This may, however, make it impossible
to have a half-length train for Chesham - see below.

* There are door open buttons - will TfL ever make up their mind about
these? - but no, as far as I could see, door close buttons.

* There's a mixture of seats including sideways, cross ways and fold down. I
have to say I don't like the angle of the seats for long journeys on the
Met.

* The seats are attached to the wall rather than the floor, allowing bags to
be put under them.

* There will be airconditioning on the trains, taking advantage of the old
arrangements in the tunnels for steam.

* The carriages will be used on all four sub-surface lines with platform
lengthenings where necessary (and presumably also track variations). As well
as the possibility of formal line rearrangements (e.g. Met to Barking and
turning the rest of the H&C and Circle into a Tea-Cup) this also makes it
easier to run special services, particularly to bypass engineering works.
(How likely is a Wimbledon to Barking via Baker Street through service when
the Embankment route is out of action?) However it could create problems for
the Chesham shuttle service - the bay road at Chalfont & Latimer is too
short for a full-length train (as would be a restored bay at Chesham) and
the station prevents expansion.

(Come to think of it isn't one of the latest timetable proposals aiming to
replace the shuttle service with through trains diverted from Amersham?)

New subsurface trains
 

On 1 Oct, 21:49, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote:
* The carriages have a strong overground feel to them, both on the outside
and inside.

They're Electrostars with a different bodyshell profile and quite a
lot of bespoke fittings.

* There are door open buttons - will TfL ever make up their mind about
these? - but no, as far as I could see, door close buttons.

The doors auto-close after 40 seconds to keep the air-conditioned air
in, and the button is to re-open them.

* There's a mixture of seats including sideways, cross ways and fold down. I
have to say I don't like the angle of the seats for long journeys on the
Met.

The carriage on the left is Met (mixed longitudinal and transverse),
the one on the right is Circle/District (transverse both sides).

* The carriages will be used on all four sub-surface lines with platform
lengthenings where necessary (and presumably also track variations).

The Met will still have its own unique trains. (8 vs 7 cars and a
unique seating layout)

(How likely is a Wimbledon to Barking via Baker Street through service when
the Embankment route is out of action?)

You'd still have to find a drivers that are trained on all the parts
of the route.

(Come to think of it isn't one of the latest timetable proposals aiming to
replace the shuttle service with through trains diverted from Amersham?)

Yes. I can't see anything else happening.

U

New subsurface trains
 

On 1 Oct, 22:36, Mr Thant
wrote:
On 1 Oct, 21:49, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote:

* The carriages have a strong overground feel to them, both on the outside
and inside.

They're Electrostars with a different bodyshell profile and quite a
lot of bespoke fittings.

* There are door open buttons - will TfL ever make up their mind about
these? - but no, as far as I could see, door close buttons.

The doors auto-close after 40 seconds to keep the air-conditioned air
in, and the button is to re-open them.

* There's a mixture of seats including sideways, cross ways and fold down. I
have to say I don't like the angle of the seats for long journeys on the
Met.

The carriage on the left is Met (mixed longitudinal and transverse),
the one on the right is Circle/District (transverse both sides).

* The carriages will be used on all four sub-surface lines with platform
lengthenings where necessary (and presumably also track variations).

The Met will still have its own unique trains. (8 vs 7 cars and a
unique seating layout)

(How likely is a Wimbledon to Barking via Baker Street through service when
the Embankment route is out of action?)

You'd still have to find a drivers that are trained on all the parts
of the route.

(Come to think of it isn't one of the latest timetable proposals aiming to
replace the shuttle service with through trains diverted from Amersham?)

Yes. I can't see anything else happening.

U

I was having a moment of curiosity last night about the train lengths,
and vaguely recalled (and seemed to find mentions of) platform
lengthening as part of the upgrade...but no details. Don't suppose
anyone knows any?

New subsurface trains
 

Jamie Thompson wrote:

I was having a moment of curiosity last night about the train lengths,
and vaguely recalled (and seemed to find mentions of) platform
lengthening as part of the upgrade...but no details. Don't suppose
anyone knows any?

I can't recall details myself but the lengthening was announced on a display
next to the model carriage(s) with a promise of longer Circle and H&C
trains. However if the Mets are still going to be even longer it could
continue to cause crowd problems on the shared tracks when passengers often
have no idea which particular line train will turn up next, making it harder
to disperse them along the platform.

New subsurface trains
 

Mr Thant wrote:

* There's a mixture of seats including sideways, cross ways and fold
down. I
have to say I don't like the angle of the seats for long journeys on the
Met.

The carriage on the left is Met (mixed longitudinal and transverse),
the one on the right is Circle/District (transverse both sides).

Interesting, since my recollection is the carriages are being billed as for
all four lines. (And the map diagrams inside are all Mets.) This does sound
as though a spanner has been put in the works of trains that can easily
switch lines as and when necessary.

* The carriages will be used on all four sub-surface lines with platform
lengthenings where necessary (and presumably also track variations).

The Met will still have its own unique trains. (8 vs 7 cars and a
unique seating layout)

As I said in my other post, I think this will continue the problems at some
Circle/H&C/Met stations. The Liverpool Street to Moorgate portion of my
trips often involves a lot of guesswork about where the end car will stop
at.

(How likely is a Wimbledon to Barking via Baker Street through service
when
the Embankment route is out of action?)

You'd still have to find a drivers that are trained on all the parts
of the route.

True, but if the stock is transferable can the drivers also be trained for
redeployment and specials where necessary?

New subsurface trains
 

No drivers will still operate on their allotted lines, any attempt to
change this arrangement and introduce an element of flexibility would
have to be negotiated with the unions, drivers are also supposed to
drive over a route at least every 6 months to retain their route
knowledge, although I'd happily never see Chesham again!

The reason that all the carriages are decorated with Met diagrams is
that the Met will be the first line to get these new trains.

True, but if the stock is transferable can the drivers also be trained for
redeployment and specials where necessary?

New subsurface trains
 

On Thu, 2 Oct 2008, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:

Mr Thant wrote:

* There's a mixture of seats including sideways, cross ways and fold
down. I have to say I don't like the angle of the seats for long
journeys on the Met.

The carriage on the left is Met (mixed longitudinal and transverse),
the one on the right is Circle/District (transverse both sides).

Interesting, since my recollection is the carriages are being billed as for
all four lines. (And the map diagrams inside are all Mets.)

I noted that, somewhat pessimistically, the network maps in these future
trains were still showing the ELL as being bustituted. :)

This does sound as though a spanner has been put in the works of trains
that can easily switch lines as and when necessary.

I think the difference in length will be a bigger spanner.

* The carriages will be used on all four sub-surface lines with platform
lengthenings where necessary (and presumably also track variations).

The Met will still have its own unique trains. (8 vs 7 cars and a
unique seating layout)

As I said in my other post, I think this will continue the problems at
some Circle/H&C/Met stations. The Liverpool Street to Moorgate portion
of my trips often involves a lot of guesswork about where the end car
will stop at.

So don't wait for the end car!

Someone here noted the deficiency of grabbable rails, i think. I visited
the mockups today, and i agree: if you're standing next to the fixed
seats, you may have trouble finding something to grab (that won't get you
arrested). I couldn't see any reason why longitudinal rails couldn't have
been fitted above the fixed seats, as they are above the tip-up seats and
in the vestibule.

I neglected to take my bike in to see how it would fit in the vestibule
and luggage space. Not sure how the staff would have reacted to that!

I overheard one of the TfL chaps (there was a huge posse there - there was
a deaf guy and a guy in wheelchair there, so maybe some kind of visit by
disabled people to inspect the new trains) mention a cunning design
featu the open buttons on the outside of the doors are at the edge, not
in the middle, which leads people who want to get on to move to the side
of the doorway, thus letting passengers off the train first, as the saying
goes. Since the doors will open automatically at any station busy enough
for this to be useful, i am skeptical about the utility of this.

tom

--
That's no moon!

New subsurface trains
 

Tom Anderson wrote:

As I said in my other post, I think this will continue the problems at
some Circle/H&C/Met stations. The Liverpool Street to Moorgate portion of
my trips often involves a lot of guesswork about where the end car will
stop at.

So don't wait for the end car!

It's the one nearest the subway at Moorgate for the interchange. If one is
fiollowing the advice to board the part of the train nearest the exit at the
destination, as so many crowd control notices over the years say, it helps
if there is only one such place to get that part.

More pertinantly the westbound platform at Liverpool Street gets badly
crowded as it is - being able to use the full length with confidence would
help.

I overheard one of the TfL chaps (there was a huge posse there - there was
a deaf guy and a guy in wheelchair there, so maybe some kind of visit by
disabled people to inspect the new trains) mention a cunning design
featu the open buttons on the outside of the doors are at the edge, not
in the middle, which leads people who want to get on to move to the side
of the doorway, thus letting passengers off the train first, as the saying
goes.

Anyone who thinks this has clearly never seen a national rail service with
the buttons at the side at a busy station. It makes little difference where
the buttons are located.

New subsurface trains
 

On 3 Oct, 00:36, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote:
Tom Anderson wrote:
As I said in my other post, I think this will continue the problems at
some Circle/H&C/Met stations. The Liverpool Street to Moorgate portion of
my trips often involves a lot of guesswork about where the end car will
stop at.
So don't wait for the end car!

It's the one nearest the subway at Moorgate for the interchange. If one is
fiollowing the advice to board the part of the train nearest the exit at the
destination, as so many crowd control notices over the years say, it helps
if there is only one such place to get that part.

For a regular user, it's not difficult to note that Barking/
Hammersmith/Circle etc means short train and Aldgate/Uxbridge/Watford
etc means long train (if the indicators are working).

(I mention this because you said "my trips". Fair enough that for
occasional travellers this won't be obvious at all.)

Also, don't trains stop at the eastern end at both Liverpool Street
and Moorgate anyway, with the variations in stop positions being at
the western end?


More pertinantly the westbound platform at Liverpool Street gets badly
crowded as it is - being able to use the full length with confidence would
help.

I overheard one of the TfL chaps (there was a huge posse there - there was
a deaf guy and a guy in wheelchair there, so maybe some kind of visit by
disabled people to inspect the new trains) mention a cunning design
featu the open buttons on the outside of the doors are at the edge, not
in the middle, which leads people who want to get on to move to the side
of the doorway, thus letting passengers off the train first, as the saying
goes.

Anyone who thinks this has clearly never seen a national rail service with
the buttons at the side at a busy station. It makes little difference where
the buttons are located.

New subsurface trains
 

MIG wrote:

It's the one nearest the subway at Moorgate for the interchange. If one
is
fiollowing the advice to board the part of the train nearest the exit at
the
destination, as so many crowd control notices over the years say, it
helps
if there is only one such place to get that part.

For a regular user, it's not difficult to note that Barking/
Hammersmith/Circle etc means short train and Aldgate/Uxbridge/Watford
etc means long train (if the indicators are working).

The indicators are often not giving information until shortly before the
train comes into the platform, instead beaming the mantra about north &
westbound trains. So you'd need to wait in a crowded area for this info
which defeats the purpose of crowd control.

Also, don't trains stop at the eastern end at both Liverpool Street
and Moorgate anyway, with the variations in stop positions being at
the western end?

At Moorgate they do, but at Liverpool Street they don't (when to going to
Euston Square which is the front of the train this is never a problem).