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Fare Evasion
I was caught using someone elses freedom pass in error instead of my own oyster on London Underground. My details were taken but I wasn't given an on the spot fine. i have only just recieved a summons. I used the freedom pass in error, I happend to be carrying it on the day and used the freedom pass instead of my own oyster card. I have a record on my oyster card that on the first leg of my journey i used my oyster card - the revenue inspector was not interested. The statement he has put together is slightly inaccurate also. I am due in court in 4 weeks and haven't a clue what to do. I have read many forums and some people are saying to plead guilty to get a lighter fine. I'm not concerned about the fine but the criminal record that may be attached to this event. I also read that it could be an idea to call the prosecution manager and to and plead an out of court settlement - is this something anyone would recommend. Is it worth hiring a solicitor or should I represent myself. It was a genuine error and I do not want to receive a criminal record because of it. Can someone advise if found guilty and fined that also means you get a criminal record? Or you can escape a criminal record with just a fine. I am very muddled and I don't know what to do, I'm absolutely terrified of what is going to happen. Any answers or advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
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Fare Evasion
"reea" wrote in message ... I was caught using someone elses freedom pass in error instead of my own oyster on London Underground. My details were taken but I wasn't given an on the spot fine. i have only just recieved a summons. I used the freedom pass in error, I happend to be carrying it on the day and used You're going to have to come up with a convincing reason why you "just happened" to have someone else's freedom pass in you pocket in the first place. Personally, I can't think of a reason I would believe if I were the jury tim |
Fare Evasion
"tim....." wrote in message ... "reea" wrote in message ... I was caught using someone elses freedom pass in error instead of my own oyster on London Underground. My details were taken but I wasn't given an on the spot fine. i have only just recieved a summons. I used the freedom pass in error, I happend to be carrying it on the day and used You're going to have to come up with a convincing reason why you "just happened" to have someone else's freedom pass in you pocket in the first place. Personally, I can't think of a reason I would believe if I were the jury I'm fairly sure someone posted almost exactly the same 'tale of woe' a year or two back. I don't think the eventual result was ever reported back... Google might know... Paul S |
Fare Evasion
On 16 Oct, 19:15, reea wrote:
I was caught using someone elses freedom pass in error instead of my own oyster on London Underground. My details were taken but I wasn't given an on the spot fine. i have only just recieved a summons. Never trust any legal advise you get on the internet You'll have to explain why you were carrying someone elses freedom pass around. If you have oyster history showing a regular journey that might help your case. If the freedom pass was in daily use up to that point you're going to have problems. |
Fare Evasion
Never trust any legal advise you get on the internet Quite. If you want legal advice I would suggest you pop down to your local Citizens Advice Bureau who will be able to explain to you what to do, and help put your mind to rest about what is likely to happen. |
Fare Evasion
In message , at 22:34:06 on Thu, 16
Oct 2008, tim..... remarked: You're going to have to come up with a convincing reason why you "just happened" to have someone else's freedom pass in you pocket in the first place. Personally, I can't think of a reason I would believe if I were the jury Depends who the Freedom Pass belonged to, and why he had it. If it was his wife's and had picked it up from the council office that day, and was in the process of taking it home - then the possession would be understandable (even if the accidental nature of the use might be a more difficult thing to explain). -- Roland Perry |
Fare Evasion
On 17 Oct, 08:35, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 22:34:06 on Thu, 16 Oct 2008, tim..... remarked: You're going to have to come up with a convincing reason why you "just happened" to have someone else's freedom pass in you pocket in the first place. Personally, I can't think of a reason I would believe if I were the jury Depends who the Freedom Pass belonged to, and why he had it. If it was his wife's and had picked it up from the council office that day, and was in the process of taking it home - then the possession would be understandable (even if the accidental nature of the use might be a more difficult thing to explain). -- Roland Perry Are freedom passes oyster cards? - If so, then if you had one in your wallet along with your normal Oyster (as suggested, say you were picking it up or it just happened to be in a pile with the rest of your normal credit cards et al. that morning etc.) and the barrier reader found it before your oyster and used it instead....these are contactless cards that live out of sight, after all. Does anyone know what happens if you have multiple oysters next to each other when you swipe? |
Fare Evasion
"Jamie Thompson" wrote in message
... On 17 Oct, 08:35, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 22:34:06 on Thu, 16 Oct 2008, tim..... remarked: You're going to have to come up with a convincing reason why you "just happened" to have someone else's freedom pass in you pocket in the first place. Personally, I can't think of a reason I would believe if I were the jury Depends who the Freedom Pass belonged to, and why he had it. If it was his wife's and had picked it up from the council office that day, and was in the process of taking it home - then the possession would be understandable (even if the accidental nature of the use might be a more difficult thing to explain). -- Roland Perry Are freedom passes oyster cards? - If so, then if you had one in your wallet along with your normal Oyster (as suggested, say you were picking it up or it just happened to be in a pile with the rest of your normal credit cards et al. that morning etc.) and the barrier reader found it before your oyster and used it instead....these are contactless cards that live out of sight, after all. Does anyone know what happens if you have multiple oysters next to each other when you swipe? They certainly work the same way and I always keep my Oyster (pre 0930 travel) and Freedom Pass (any other time) in separate wallets just to make sure I don't get charged when I should be travelling free. Keeping the nice bright orange ticket wallet helps make sure you don't confuse it with anything else too! MaxB |
Fare Evasion
The message
from Jamie Thompson contains these words: On 17 Oct, 08:35, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 22:34:06 on Thu, 16 Oct 2008, tim..... remarked: You're going to have to come up with a convincing reason why you "just happened" to have someone else's freedom pass in you pocket in the first place. Personally, I can't think of a reason I would believe if I were the jury Depends who the Freedom Pass belonged to, and why he had it. If it was his wife's and had picked it up from the council office that day, and was in the process of taking it home - then the possession would be understandable (even if the accidental nature of the use might be a more difficult thing to explain). -- Roland Perry Are freedom passes oyster cards? - If so, then if you had one in your wallet along with your normal Oyster (as suggested, say you were picking it up or it just happened to be in a pile with the rest of your normal credit cards et al. that morning etc.) and the barrier reader found it before your oyster and used it instead....these are contactless cards that live out of sight, after all. Does anyone know what happens if you have multiple oysters next to each other when you swipe? Freedom Passes are Oyster Cards. Freedom Passes are orange and brown, ordinary Oyster cards are blue and bright turquoise. These colours are easily accidentally confused - not. I read a similar story a few years ago in this very newsgroup. I didn't believe the OP ?Michelle? then and I certainly don't believe the OP here now. I am a wheelchair user who frequently gives my Freedom Pass to my partner so he can push me through a gate but we don't have that sort of 'accident' even though he is DEAD SCATTY. Pull the other one, it's gt bells on! |
Fare Evasion
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 22:34:06 on Thu, 16 Oct 2008, tim..... remarked: You're going to have to come up with a convincing reason why you "just happened" to have someone else's freedom pass in you pocket in the first place. Personally, I can't think of a reason I would believe if I were the jury Depends who the Freedom Pass belonged to, and why he had it. If it was his wife's and had picked it up from the council office that day Never having had one, I have no idea if it works this way, but somehow I doubt it. tim |
Fare Evasion
Sounds like an open and shut case to me. Your best bet would be to
get down to your local citizens advice bureau and get some legal advice but i dont fancy your chances of getting off. If the reason that the first journey was on an oyster was that is was before the freedom pass was valid then you would have no chance ! |
Fare Evasion
Jamie Thompson wrote:
On 17 Oct, 08:35, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 22:34:06 on Thu, 16 Oct 2008, tim..... remarked: You're going to have to come up with a convincing reason why you "just happened" to have someone else's freedom pass in you pocket in the first place. Personally, I can't think of a reason I would believe if I were the jury Depends who the Freedom Pass belonged to, and why he had it. If it was his wife's and had picked it up from the council office that day, and was in the process of taking it home - then the possession would be understandable (even if the accidental nature of the use might be a more difficult thing to explain). -- Roland Perry Are freedom passes oyster cards? - If so, then if you had one in your wallet along with your normal Oyster (as suggested, say you were picking it up or it just happened to be in a pile with the rest of your normal credit cards et al. that morning etc.) and the barrier reader found it before your oyster and used it instead....these are contactless cards that live out of sight, after all. Does anyone know what happens if you have multiple oysters next to each other when you swipe? Been there, done it. I have a freedom pass & a oyster card (for use before 9am) Not thinking I had them both in my wallet, I later found that the oyster had been debited (no way of telling if the Freedom Pass had been scanned) -- Tony the Dragon |
Fare Evasion
In message , at 15:28:12 on Fri, 17
Oct 2008, tim..... remarked: You're going to have to come up with a convincing reason why you "just happened" to have someone else's freedom pass in you pocket in the first place. Personally, I can't think of a reason I would believe if I were the jury Depends who the Freedom Pass belonged to, and why he had it. If it was his wife's and had picked it up from the council office that day Never having had one, I have no idea if it works this way, but somehow I doubt it. You think there is a rule that says you always have to pick them up in person? -- Roland Perry |
Fare Evasion
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 15:28:12 on Fri, 17 Oct 2008, tim..... remarked: You're going to have to come up with a convincing reason why you "just happened" to have someone else's freedom pass in you pocket in the first place. Personally, I can't think of a reason I would believe if I were the jury Depends who the Freedom Pass belonged to, and why he had it. If it was his wife's and had picked it up from the council office that day Never having had one, I have no idea if it works this way, but somehow I doubt it. You think there is a rule that says you always have to pick them up in person? From the website: Q. Can someone go on my behalf to apply for the freedom pass? A. No, you must apply in person. See How to apply for a freedom pass. tim |
Fare Evasion
In message , at 17:38:50 on Fri, 17
Oct 2008, tim..... remarked: You think there is a rule that says you always have to pick them up in person? From the website: Q. Can someone go on my behalf to apply for the freedom pass? A. No, you must apply in person. See How to apply for a freedom pass. That is applying. I'm talking about picking it (or a replacement) up. -- Roland Perry |
Fare Evasion
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 17:38:50 on Fri, 17 Oct 2008, tim..... remarked: You think there is a rule that says you always have to pick them up in person? From the website: Q. Can someone go on my behalf to apply for the freedom pass? A. No, you must apply in person. See How to apply for a freedom pass. That is applying. I'm talking about picking it (or a replacement) up. It doesn't explicitly say but the implication is that it's issued on the spot (and if it isn't surely they post it to you) tim |
Fare Evasion
In message , at 20:30:37 on Fri, 17
Oct 2008, tim..... remarked: You think there is a rule that says you always have to pick them up in person? From the website: Q. Can someone go on my behalf to apply for the freedom pass? A. No, you must apply in person. See How to apply for a freedom pass. That is applying. I'm talking about picking it (or a replacement) up. It doesn't explicitly say but the implication is that it's issued on the spot (and if it isn't surely they post it to you) Is there a rule against having someone collect a replacement, if yours is lost or needs renewing? (This is only one of several scenarios, but the most likely I think; unless the OP has a better explanation). -- Roland Perry |
Fare Evasion
"Helen Deborah Vecht" wrote in message ... Freedom Passes are Oyster Cards. Freedom Passes are orange and brown, ordinary Oyster cards are blue and bright turquoise. These colours are easily accidentally confused - not. I read a similar story a few years ago in this very newsgroup. I didn't believe the OP ?Michelle? then and I certainly don't believe the OP here now. Pull the other one, it's gt bells on! This is it, google found it: "On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 20:40:20 +0000, Michelle wrote: I don't know if anyone can help, but any further advice will be much appreciated. I recieved the letter from london underground saying legal proceedings may be initiated against me. I'm supposed to send the letter back within 10 days with my full details and if I want to write any comments I can, but it will be used as evidence. I don't know what to do or what to say. I'm still scared as to what is going to happen. I keep thinking I'm going to prison because I was using a freedom pass as opposed to not having a ticket. Is this likely? If I'm fined, how much is likely in a case like mine? Would it make a difference if I write how sorry I am and how frightened I've been? Or should I write nothing? What happens if I don't send the letter back? Also someone here said if I get a criminal record for this it'll last for 5 years, is this true I thought it was for life? I honestly don't know what to do anymore. I feel so stupid for being in a rush that day and not thinking things through. I think someone suggested I seek help from a solicitor, how do I go about this? Sorry I have no idea how this works." Remarkably similar - both spell 'recieved' the same anyway... :-) Paul |
Fare Evasion
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 20:30:37 on Fri, 17 Oct 2008, tim..... remarked: You think there is a rule that says you always have to pick them up in person? From the website: Q. Can someone go on my behalf to apply for the freedom pass? A. No, you must apply in person. See How to apply for a freedom pass. That is applying. I'm talking about picking it (or a replacement) up. It doesn't explicitly say but the implication is that it's issued on the spot (and if it isn't surely they post it to you) Is there a rule against having someone collect a replacement, if yours is lost or needs renewing? It's not really going to be covered by a "rule", more like a "procedure" that is used for everyone. The procedure "is what it is", and I think it unlikely that it will be "someone collects it at a date/place different to the lodging of the application" as that is not going to be convenient for many people. tim |
Fare Evasion
On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 19:15:13 +0100, reea
wrote: I was caught using someone elses freedom pass in error instead of my own oyster on London Underground. My details were taken but I wasn't given an on the spot fine. i have only just recieved a summons. I used the freedom pass in error, I happend to be carrying it on the day and used the freedom pass instead of my own oyster card. I have a record on my oyster card that on the first leg of my journey i used my oyster card - the revenue inspector was not interested. The statement he has put together is slightly inaccurate also. I am due in court in 4 weeks and haven't a clue what to do. I have read many forums and some people are saying to plead guilty to get a lighter fine. I'm not concerned about the fine but the criminal record that may be attached to this event. I also read that it could be an idea to call the prosecution manager and to and plead an out of court settlement - is this something anyone would recommend. Is it worth hiring a solicitor or should I represent myself. It was a genuine error and I do not want to receive a criminal record because of it. Can someone advise if found guilty and fined that also means you get a criminal record? Or you can escape a criminal record with just a fine. I am very muddled and I don't know what to do, I'm absolutely terrified of what is going to happen. Any answers or advice would be appreciated. Thanks. There are a couple of newsgroups, uk.legal.moderated and uk.legal which may give some advice. I think the suggestion to go to the Citizens Advice is good. Mistakes happen, just stick to the truth, don't embellish on it and maybe the court will accept your story. |
Fare Evasion
In message , at 23:53:07 on Fri, 17
Oct 2008, tim..... remarked: Is there a rule against having someone collect a replacement, if yours is lost or needs renewing? It's not really going to be covered by a "rule", more like a "procedure" that is used for everyone. The procedure "is what it is", and I think it unlikely that it will be "someone collects it at a date/place different to the lodging of the application" as that is not going to be convenient for many people. For many people it will be convenient for someone else to collect a replacement for a lost pass - saving them the trip. Just like I often buy railway tickets for my wife because I happen to be passing the station, and she then doesn't have to queue up on the day of travel. -- Roland Perry |
Fare Evasion
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 23:53:07 on Fri, 17 Oct 2008, tim..... remarked: Is there a rule against having someone collect a replacement, if yours is lost or needs renewing? It's not really going to be covered by a "rule", more like a "procedure" that is used for everyone. The procedure "is what it is", and I think it unlikely that it will be "someone collects it at a date/place different to the lodging of the application" as that is not going to be convenient for many people. For many people it will be convenient for someone else to collect a replacement for a lost pass - saving them the trip But not for everybody. My point is that there doesn't need to be a second trip. If the pass isn't issued over the counter during the first trip (at which personal attendance is compulsory), it can (and IMHO should) be posted to the intended recipient tim |
Fare Evasion
"tim....." typed
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 22:34:06 on Thu, 16 Oct 2008, tim..... remarked: You're going to have to come up with a convincing reason why you "just happened" to have someone else's freedom pass in you pocket in the first place. Personally, I can't think of a reason I would believe if I were the jury Depends who the Freedom Pass belonged to, and why he had it. If it was his wife's and had picked it up from the council office that day Never having had one, I have no idea if it works this way, but somehow I doubt it. tim You get a letter from the Council and take it with two IDs to a Post Office in the same London Borough, in person.... -- Helen D. Vecht: Edgware. |
Fare Evasion
Roland Perry typed
In message , at 17:38:50 on Fri, 17 Oct 2008, tim..... remarked: You think there is a rule that says you always have to pick them up in person? From the website: Q. Can someone go on my behalf to apply for the freedom pass? A. No, you must apply in person. See How to apply for a freedom pass. That is applying. I'm talking about picking it (or a replacement) up. You get thosee from a Post Office too... -- Helen D. Vecht: Edgware. |
Fare Evasion
"Paul Scott" typed
"Helen Deborah Vecht" wrote in message ... I read a similar story a few years ago in this very newsgroup. I didn't believe the OP ?Michelle? then and I certainly don't believe the OP here now. Pull the other one, it's got bells on! This is it, google found it: "On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 20:40:20 +0000, Michelle wrote:" Remarkably similar - both spell 'recieved' the same anyway... :-) Paul Good to see my memory has not yet failed... -- Helen D. Vecht: Edgware. |
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Can anyone advise if I should use a solicitor? |
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The reason for having it on me is that my father misplaced the card. SInce having a stroke 6 months ago he has become very forgetful. I found it and held onto it until I would see him next. It was a very simple mistake which has got me into a very bad situation. This could jeoparidse my career - and I fear for this happening. |
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Fare Evasion
In message , at 11:54:13 on Sat, 18
Oct 2008, tim..... remarked: For many people it will be convenient for someone else to collect a replacement for a lost pass - saving them the trip But not for everybody. It only takes one person for whom it's more convenient, for it to be a plausible scenario. My point is that there doesn't need to be a second trip. If the pass isn't issued over the counter during the first trip (at which personal attendance is compulsory), it can (and IMHO should) be posted to the intended recipient So you are suggesting that there either isn't, or shouldn't be, any system to allow the collection of a replacement pass? Maybe you can look at the relevant websites to see what the situation is - the possibility doesn't of itself rule it out for me. -- Roland Perry |
Fare Evasion
In message , at 12:25:54 on
Sat, 18 Oct 2008, Helen Deborah Vecht remarked: I'm talking about picking it (or a replacement) up. You get thosee from a Post Office too... Do they *have* to be picked up in person, or can someone else do it for you? -- Roland Perry |
Fare Evasion
In message , at 12:24:26 on
Sat, 18 Oct 2008, Helen Deborah Vecht remarked: You get a letter from the Council and take it with two IDs to a Post Office in the same London Borough, in person.... For both original cards, and replacements? Are there no provisions for (eg) disabled cardholders to nominate someone else to pick it up? -- Roland Perry |
Fare Evasion
The clerical staff get those bonuses too? I no longer have contact with City workers which touches on pay but when I did (until a few years ago) it was certainly common for secretaries to be on £30,000-£40,000 with bonuses of £thousands. Clerical juniors will of course get less. But none of them were low paid by the standards of many of the people I used to work with. My point was rather that if the consequences of a conviction for the OP are serious then it may well be better to pay for advice, especially if the CAB cannot offer personal representation. On a separate point, I am not sure anyone has yet answered the OP's question about a criminal record. That and other questions is asked and answered ("yes, if you are convicted") in TFL's FAQs http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...ution-FAQs.pdf -- Robin |
Fare Evasion
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Fare Evasion
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