"AstraVanMan" wrote in message
...
In addition to all the tube (and DLR) links mentioned, an international
station at Stratford means that Eurostar passengers to/from many parts
of Essex and East Anglia do not have to go to central London to change.

When Crossrail is built, it will mean that Eurostar passengers to/from
the west of London won't need to change in central London.

And if the proposed plan to run Eurostar services on the west coast
mainline materialises, Stratford will be the only London stop.

It'll be the new Clapham Junction.

Indeed.

Willesden Junction could be turned into one too: build new platforms on the
main WCML lines and maybe even the GWML (as it passes so close). With
Crossrail 1 passing through, as well as all the GWML and WCML traffic, and
the Bakerloo and North London Lines (Orbirail by then?), you'd have a decent
hub for West London with connections to Gatwick (South Central), Heathrow
(Crossrail), the west (GWML), the north and midlands (WCML), and lots of
London. If NoL Eurostar services ever start, this would be an ideal
additional or alternative stop to Stratford. And a useful place to start
the HSL to the north.

With the ELL (and hence the creation of a true Orbirail service), and the
addition of Met and Chiltern platforms turning West Hampstead into more of a
hub, you'd have a decent inner-London hub network linked by the Orbirail
network and tube/Crossrail/Thameslink connections into the centre.

Or maybe I'm just dreaming... :-)

Angus

"Matthew Malthouse" wrote in message
.. .

} There is also an extention to the DLR that will provide dual
platforms
} at the extsiting Stratford and a new terminus at the International
} station.
}
}
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/dlr/developmen...d/stations.htm
}
} Looking at the maps, would option 2 (which seems like a wholly new DLR
} route to Stratford) mean abandonment of the current DLR line to
} Stratford, or would there then be 2 ways to get there via different
} routes? I'm not from the area but thats how the map reads to me. Option
} 1 looks like an extension to the current layout.

It's all rather lacking in detail but it seems that the prefered option
2 would use the North London Line corridor from Custom House to
Stratford as DLR thsu providing a direct link between Startfor
International and London City Airport.

Nothing on the site suggests the abandonment of the Stratford to Poplar
branch and indeed that would seem foolish as it's a direct link to
Canary Wharf and very busy mcuh of the time. However foolish transport
decsisions are not entirely unknown.

What happens to the North London Line as a concequence of building DLR
option 2 is not stated.

I thought the intention (if you look at the DLR Stratford extension maps
closely - see the orange (?) route) is to divert the NLL services into
Stratford main station and up the Lea Valley.

Angus

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 09:38:12 +0100 Angus Bryant wrote:
} "Matthew Malthouse" wrote in message
} .. .
}
} } There is also an extention to the DLR that will provide dual
} platforms
} } at the extsiting Stratford and a new terminus at the International
} } station.
} }
} }
} http://www.tfl.gov.uk/dlr/developmen...d/stations.htm
} }
} } Looking at the maps, would option 2 (which seems like a wholly new DLR
} } route to Stratford) mean abandonment of the current DLR line to
} } Stratford, or would there then be 2 ways to get there via different
} } routes? I'm not from the area but thats how the map reads to me. Option
} } 1 looks like an extension to the current layout.
}
} It's all rather lacking in detail but it seems that the prefered option
} 2 would use the North London Line corridor from Custom House to
} Stratford as DLR thsu providing a direct link between Startfor
} International and London City Airport.
}
} Nothing on the site suggests the abandonment of the Stratford to Poplar
} branch and indeed that would seem foolish as it's a direct link to
} Canary Wharf and very busy mcuh of the time. However foolish transport
} decsisions are not entirely unknown.
}
} What happens to the North London Line as a concequence of building DLR
} option 2 is not stated.
}
} I thought the intention (if you look at the DLR Stratford extension maps
} closely - see the orange (?) route) is to divert the NLL services into
} Stratford main station and up the Lea Valley.

I've not found a map that admits to that close an inspection. Can you
point me in the right direction?


Matthew
--
Záhid sharáb píné dé, masjid mein baith kar
ya woh jagah batá dé jahán Khudá na ho.
http://www.calmeilles.co.uk/

Matthew Malthouse wrote:

} It's all rather lacking in detail but it seems that the prefered option
} 2 would use the North London Line corridor from Custom House to
} Stratford as DLR thsu providing a direct link between Startfor
} International and London City Airport.
}
} Nothing on the site suggests the abandonment of the Stratford to Poplar
} branch and indeed that would seem foolish as it's a direct link to
} Canary Wharf and very busy mcuh of the time. However foolish transport
} decsisions are not entirely unknown.
}
} What happens to the North London Line as a concequence of building DLR
} option 2 is not stated.
}
} I thought the intention (if you look at the DLR Stratford extension maps
} closely - see the orange (?) route) is to divert the NLL services into
} Stratford main station and up the Lea Valley.

I've not found a map that admits to that close an inspection. Can you
point me in the right direction?

Have a look at the three photographic maps down at the bottom of the
page below. The lines are in blue, not orange - sorry for the
confusion!

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/dlr/developmen..._appraisal.htm

Angus

"AstraVanMan" wrote in message
...
In addition to all the tube (and DLR) links mentioned, an international
station at Stratford means that Eurostar passengers to/from many parts
of Essex and East Anglia do not have to go to central London to change.

When Crossrail is built, it will mean that Eurostar passengers to/from
the west of London won't need to change in central London.

And if the proposed plan to run Eurostar services on the west coast
mainline materialises, Stratford will be the only London stop.

It'll be the new Clapham Junction.

So what will they do with the old one?

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:33:16 +0100 Angus Bryant wrote:
} Matthew Malthouse wrote:
}
} } I thought the intention (if you look at the DLR Stratford extension maps
} } closely - see the orange (?) route) is to divert the NLL services into
} } Stratford main station and up the Lea Valley.
}
} I've not found a map that admits to that close an inspection. Can you
} point me in the right direction?
}
} Have a look at the three photographic maps down at the bottom of the
} page below. The lines are in blue, not orange - sorry for the
} confusion!
}
} http://www.tfl.gov.uk/dlr/developmen..._appraisal.htm

Aha. I see what you mean. I can't find any documentation reflecting
this change though. Searches of tfl and tfl/rail for "North London
Line" produce nothing of relevance.

Matthew
--
Záhid sharáb píné dé, masjid mein baith kar
ya woh jagah batá dé jahán Khudá na ho.
http://www.calmeilles.co.uk/

Matthew Malthouse wrote:

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:33:16 +0100 Angus Bryant wrote:
} Matthew Malthouse wrote:
}
} } I thought the intention (if you look at the DLR Stratford extension maps
} } closely - see the orange (?) route) is to divert the NLL services into
} } Stratford main station and up the Lea Valley.
}
} I've not found a map that admits to that close an inspection. Can you
} point me in the right direction?
}
} Have a look at the three photographic maps down at the bottom of the
} page below. The lines are in blue, not orange - sorry for the
} confusion!
}
} http://www.tfl.gov.uk/dlr/developmen..._appraisal.htm

Aha. I see what you mean. I can't find any documentation reflecting
this change though. Searches of tfl and tfl/rail for "North London
Line" produce nothing of relevance.

Indeed. But it seems the most logical thing to do if the Stratford -
North Woolwich line is taken over by DLR. See also John Rowland's
excellent site:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro..._e.html#DLRNLL

Also I wonder if Stansted Express will switch to runing via Stratford?
Stopping here either instead of or in addition to Tottenham Hale may be
useful. WA should be part of Greater Anglia by then anyway, so it may
not matter that it'd be running to Liverpool Street on the Stratford
lines rather than the Hackney ones.

Angus

Matthew Malthouse wrote in message ...
On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:06:30 -0000 Zonky wrote:
} Sorry, but what's the point of it? Turning an express train into a slow
} stopper for the last couple of miles?

The main point is that it will be 10 mins walk from my front door;
couldn't have let 'em do it otherwise.

Seriously, Stratford is already an interchange for Mainline, DLR,
Jubilee and Central services. With the DLR it will have a link to City
Airport. It will make passenger access significantly easier for a great
many people.

Additionally it has freight links with Harwich and Felixtowe. I don;t
know how much freight was a consideration byt it seems reasonable to
suspect that it played a part.

Matthew

I don't think freight had much to do with the choice to add a
Stratford station. If Quail is to be believed there will be no routes
off the CTRL from the South at Stratford. The only routes off the up
CTRL north of the Thames are at Dagenham, into Ripple Lane Yard and
the Ford plant; into St. Pancras station; and onto the WCML via
Primrose Hill. There is a a route off the Down CTRL at Stratford
into Temple Mills Yard.

I suspect that the main reasons that the station exists were as a stop
for domestic trains on the CTRL, and to provide a London stop for NOL
Eurostars off the WCML that does not require a St. pancras reversal.
Additionally, even though the interchange to other railways at
Strtford is terrible, Stratford is probably still more convenient to
the Docklands, and (more generally) to most points East of the the
City. If Crossrail is ever built, it will probably be more convenient
for many passengers from West fo town too. [Although this is probably
less true for the current proposed Crossrail routes than was true for
those current when the CTRL was being planned.]

It also looks as if trains can be reversed at Stratford, so it would
provide an alternate terminus in the even tthat St. Pancras was
unusable.

I have a few CTRL questions.

Will St. Pancras Eurostars still use the North Pole depot? If so, are
there plans to add a route out of the depot onto the Northbound WLL?
If not, then what facility will be used?

What is the connection into Temple Mills Yard for?

To what extent will a failure to complete TL2K before CTRL Phase 2 is
doen cause operational problems in the redeveloped St. Pancras, wheer
there will only be four platforms available the MML? [I suppose the 3
domestic CTRL platforms might also be available, but access to them
from the MML crosses the entire throat of the station on the flat, so
there is a limit to their usefulness].

On Thu, 18 Sep 2003 14:24:03 +0100 Angus Bryant wrote:
} Matthew Malthouse wrote:
}
} } http://www.tfl.gov.uk/dlr/developmen..._appraisal.htm
}
} Aha. I see what you mean. I can't find any documentation reflecting
} this change though. Searches of tfl and tfl/rail for "North London
} Line" produce nothing of relevance.
}
} Indeed. But it seems the most logical thing to do if the Stratford -
} North Woolwich line is taken over by DLR. See also John Rowland's
} excellent site:
}
} http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro..._e.html#DLRNLL

Good stuff.

The way that the tracks parallel each other it is very easy to imagine
the Jubilee taking over NLL services north of Stratford which would give
the line a marvelous loop right acoss the tube map. I think I remember
being told that this wasn't possible because it would mean tube and main
line stock sharing track which is a health and safety no-no. Shame,
it'd have been fun.

} Also I wonder if Stansted Express will switch to runing via Stratford?
} Stopping here either instead of or in addition to Tottenham Hale may be
} useful. WA should be part of Greater Anglia by then anyway, so it may
} not matter that it'd be running to Liverpool Street on the Stratford
} lines rather than the Hackney ones.

That would be nice too. Getting to Stanstead for the earlier (and
usually cheaper) flights is a right pain even living in a relatively
convenient area for Liverpool Street or Tottenham.

Matthew
--
Záhid sharáb píné dé, masjid mein baith kar
ya woh jagah batá dé jahán Khudá na ho.
http://www.calmeilles.co.uk/

"William E. Aitken" wrote in message
om...

I have a few CTRL questions.

Will St. Pancras Eurostars still use the North Pole depot? If so, are
there plans to add a route out of the depot onto the Northbound WLL?
If not, then what facility will be used?

What is the connection into Temple Mills Yard for?

ISTR that the original intention was to use North Pole to start off with
until a new depot was built at Temple Mills, hence the connection being
built now. I think (?) the Temple Mills depot had something to do with
maintenance of the domestic CTRL services too. As to whether this will ever
happen, I don't know.

Angus