Hi all,

I've seen a lot of signs recently declaring roads to be private. What does
this mean? Am I allowed to drive down it? If I crash or kill someone, will
the outcome be different to the outcome on a public road?

I have also seen signs, particularly guarding the car parks of small
pretentious blocks of flats, saying "No Turning". Has anyone ever been
prosecuted for turning their car on a road so marked?

While I was using a private shortcut which serves the numerous car repair
garages which occupy the arches of the Piccadilly Line viaduct in South
Harrow, a big van containing three men whizzed onto my side of the road to
pass a parked car blocking their side of the road. Judging by the smug look
on the drivers face, he presumed that my little Kia Pride (which looks a lot
like a Nissan Micra) would stop and let them through. He was wrong, and we
met face to face at the narrow part. After about half a minute of my
legendary stare he reversed and I got through the gap. Afterwards I wondered
who had been in the right - if they worked at or owned one of the garages,
did they have priority over me? But then again, they might have just been
using it as a shortcut, like me. It doesn't seem possible that priority
would depend on something which is so difficult to ascertain. Or is there no
legally defined "right side of the road" on a private road?

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 00:05:31 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote:

Hi all,

I've seen a lot of signs recently declaring roads to be private. What does
this mean? Am I allowed to drive down it? If I crash or kill someone, will
the outcome be different to the outcome on a public road?

Certainly there is the standard stuff like speed limits and Road Tax
not applying. Fine if you have a big country estate with lots of
roadway and a classic sports car collection, but most of the private
roads in london are far too short - the one where my sister's house is
certainly is. Not sure about the insurance situation, or indeed
applicable charges for drunk-driving, death by dangerous driving, etc.

I have also seen signs, particularly guarding the car parks of small
pretentious blocks of flats, saying "No Turning". Has anyone ever been
prosecuted for turning their car on a road so marked?

Technically it would be trespassing.

While I was using a private shortcut which serves the numerous car repair
garages which occupy the arches of the Piccadilly Line viaduct in South
Harrow, a big van containing three men whizzed onto my side of the road to
pass a parked car blocking their side of the road. Judging by the smug look
on the drivers face, he presumed that my little Kia Pride (which looks a lot
like a Nissan Micra) would stop and let them through. He was wrong, and we
met face to face at the narrow part. After about half a minute of my
legendary stare he reversed and I got through the gap. Afterwards I wondered
who had been in the right - if they worked at or owned one of the garages,
did they have priority over me? But then again, they might have just been
using it as a shortcut, like me. It doesn't seem possible that priority
would depend on something which is so difficult to ascertain. Or is there no
legally defined "right side of the road" on a private road?

Probably not. I suppose a private road could be deemed to be
opposite, if the owner so wished.
--
Nick Cooper

[Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!]

The London Underground at War:
http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm
625-Online - classic British television:
http://www.625.org.uk
'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic:
http://www.thingstocome.org.uk

"Nick Cooper" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 00:05:31 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote:

Hi all,

I've seen a lot of signs recently declaring roads to be private. What
does
this mean? Am I allowed to drive down it? If I crash or kill someone,
will
the outcome be different to the outcome on a public road?

Certainly there is the standard stuff like speed limits and Road Tax
not applying. Fine if you have a big country estate with lots of
roadway and a classic sports car collection, but most of the private
roads in london are far too short - the one where my sister's house is
certainly is. Not sure about the insurance situation, or indeed
applicable charges for drunk-driving, death by dangerous driving, etc.

Don't know about other offences, but you can still be prosecuted for
drink-driving if you are in a place to which the public have access, like a
car park and presumably a private road that isn't fenced off or gated.

Alec

I have also seen signs, particularly guarding the car parks of small
pretentious blocks of flats, saying "No Turning". Has anyone ever been
prosecuted for turning their car on a road so marked?

Technically it would be trespassing.

While I was using a private shortcut which serves the numerous car repair
garages which occupy the arches of the Piccadilly Line viaduct in South
Harrow, a big van containing three men whizzed onto my side of the road
to
pass a parked car blocking their side of the road. Judging by the smug
look
on the drivers face, he presumed that my little Kia Pride (which looks a
lot
like a Nissan Micra) would stop and let them through. He was wrong, and
we
met face to face at the narrow part. After about half a minute of my
legendary stare he reversed and I got through the gap. Afterwards I
wondered
who had been in the right - if they worked at or owned one of the
garages,
did they have priority over me? But then again, they might have just been
using it as a shortcut, like me. It doesn't seem possible that priority
would depend on something which is so difficult to ascertain. Or is there
no
legally defined "right side of the road" on a private road?

Probably not. I suppose a private road could be deemed to be
opposite, if the owner so wished.
--
Nick Cooper

[Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!]

The London Underground at War:
http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm
625-Online - classic British television:
http://www.625.org.uk
'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic:
http://www.thingstocome.org.uk

In article , Nick Cooper wrote:
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 00:05:31 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote:

Hi all,

I've seen a lot of signs recently declaring roads to be private.
What does this mean? Am I allowed to drive down it? If I crash or
kill someone, will the outcome be different to the outcome on a
public road?

Certainly there is the standard stuff like speed limits and Road Tax
not applying. Fine if you have a big country estate with lots of
roadway and a classic sports car collection, but most of the private
roads in london are far too short - the one where my sister's house
is
certainly is. Not sure about the insurance situation, or indeed
applicable charges for drunk-driving, death by dangerous driving,
etc.

ISTR the rules were changed a few years ago to allow these laws to be
enforcable on private land



I have also seen signs, particularly guarding the car parks of
small
pretentious blocks of flats, saying "No Turning". Has anyone ever
been prosecuted for turning their car on a road so marked?

Technically it would be trespassing.

While I was using a private shortcut which serves the numerous car
repair garages which occupy the arches of the Piccadilly Line
viaduct in South Harrow, a big van containing three men whizzed
onto
my side of the road to pass a parked car blocking their side of the
road. Judging by the smug look on the drivers face, he presumed
that
my little Kia Pride (which looks a lot like a Nissan Micra) would
stop and let them through. He was wrong, and we met face to face at
the narrow part. After about half a minute of my legendary stare he
reversed and I got through the gap. Afterwards I wondered who had
been in the right - if they worked at or owned one of the garages,
did they have priority over me? But then again, they might have
just
been using it as a shortcut, like me. It doesn't seem possible that
priority would depend on something which is so difficult to
ascertain. Or is there no legally defined "right side of the road"
on a private road?

Probably not. I suppose a private road could be deemed to be
opposite, if the owner so wished.

The classic example of this is Savoy Place where the traffic drives on
the right.

"Stimpy" wrote in message
...
In article , Nick Cooper wrote:
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 00:05:31 +0100, "John Rowland"
wrote:

Or is there no legally defined "right side
of the road" on a private road?

Probably not. I suppose a private road could be
deemed to be opposite, if the owner so wished.

The classic example of this is Savoy Place where
the traffic drives on the right.

There are some public roads in London where cars drive on the right: I know
of The Hale (Tottenham), and the gaps in certain dual carriageways, for
instance Russell Lane (Whetstone).

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

I've seen a lot of signs recently declaring roads to be private. What does
this mean?

It means that it is not adopted as a public highway by the local highway
authority (usually the local council) but is owned by the residents or the
freehold owner of the land where the houses have been built.

Am I allowed to drive down it?

Yes, unless there is a sign telling you "residents only" in which case you
would be trespassing but nobody would be likely to sue you because you could
easily be visiting a friend who lives there. But if you regularly drove down
it as a short-cut they might begin to notice you and take your number and
sue you. Near me, there is a private road where an electronic sign suddenly
lights up and displays your registration number, which is a bit unnerving.


If I crash or kill someone, will
the outcome be different to the outcome on a public road?

No. You still require insurance, you could still be prosecuted for driving
without due care etc. I don't know about the speed limit but I should think
that in the absence of a speed limit sign the police would (someone correct
me if they know otherwise) enforce a 30mph speed limit.


I have also seen signs, particularly guarding the car parks of small
pretentious blocks of flats, saying "No Turning". Has anyone ever been
prosecuted for turning their car on a road so marked?

You mean sued (in a civil court) not prosecuted. Maybe they have been, but
only those directly involved would know. It seems very unlikely given the
likely expense. Again, it could be different if you were a serial offender.


While I was using a private shortcut which serves the numerous car repair
garages which occupy the arches of the Piccadilly Line viaduct in South
Harrow, a big van containing three men whizzed onto my side of the road to
pass a parked car blocking their side of the road. Judging by the smug
look
on the drivers face, he presumed that my little Kia Pride (which looks a
lot
like a Nissan Micra) would stop and let them through. He was wrong, and we
met face to face at the narrow part. After about half a minute of my
legendary stare he reversed and I got through the gap. Afterwards I
wondered
who had been in the right - if they worked at or owned one of the garages,
did they have priority over me? But then again, they might have just been
using it as a shortcut, like me. It doesn't seem possible that priority
would depend on something which is so difficult to ascertain. Or is there
no
legally defined "right side of the road" on a private road?

Same rules of the road apply.

"John Rowland" wrote in message ...
Hi all,

I've seen a lot of signs recently declaring roads to be private. What does
this mean? Am I allowed to drive down it? If I crash or kill someone, will
the outcome be different to the outcome on a public road?

Not sure about the answers to your specific questions but some 'road'
or 'traffic' laws/regulations do apply to private roads and some
don't.

If the legislation refers to 'Highways' then it does not apply to
private roads which are not Highways (careful - some private roads are
Highways, for example where there is a public right-of-way even though
the road is not maintained by the local authority). Highways are,
basically, public roads and footpaths although the Highways Act 1980
famously states "A Highway is a Highway or any part of a Highway."

If the legislation refers to 'roads' or 'streets' then it may well be
applicable to private roads as well as highways. A good example is
the New Roads & Street Works Act 1991, which regulates how roadworks
should be signed and layed out - this certainly applies to both public
and private roads.

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

I've seen a lot of signs recently declaring roads to be private. What does
this mean? Am I allowed to drive down it? If I crash or kill someone, will
the outcome be different to the outcome on a public road?

I have also seen signs, particularly guarding the car parks of small
pretentious blocks of flats, saying "No Turning". Has anyone ever been
prosecuted for turning their car on a road so marked?

While I was using a private shortcut which serves the numerous car repair
garages which occupy the arches of the Piccadilly Line viaduct in South
Harrow, a big van containing three men whizzed onto my side of the road to
pass a parked car blocking their side of the road. Judging by the smug
look
on the drivers face, he presumed that my little Kia Pride (which looks a
lot
like a Nissan Micra) would stop and let them through. He was wrong, and we
met face to face at the narrow part. After about half a minute of my
legendary stare he reversed and I got through the gap. Afterwards I
wondered
who had been in the right - if they worked at or owned one of the garages,
did they have priority over me? But then again, they might have just been
using it as a shortcut, like me. It doesn't seem possible that priority
would depend on something which is so difficult to ascertain. Or is there
no
legally defined "right side of the road" on a private road?


On that particular private road, I think there must be some form of
acknowledged right of way for the public.
I used to live in that area and have been using that alley for almost twenty
years without any complaints.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

"The Todal" wrote in message
...

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

I've seen a lot of signs recently declaring roads to be private. What
does
this mean?

It means that it is not adopted as a public highway by the local highway
authority (usually the local council) but is owned by the residents or the
freehold owner of the land where the houses have been built.

Presumably it also means that a right of way will not be established by
people using the road.

Colin Bignell

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 16:52:47 +0100 nightjar wrote:
}
} "The Todal" wrote in message
} ...
}
} "John Rowland" wrote in message
} ...
} Hi all,
}
} I've seen a lot of signs recently declaring roads to be private. What
} does
} this mean?
}
} It means that it is not adopted as a public highway by the local highway
} authority (usually the local council) but is owned by the residents or the
} freehold owner of the land where the houses have been built.
}
} Presumably it also means that a right of way will not be established by
} people using the road.

It would.

I used to live in deepest Suffolk and once a year the road (well, more
track) was temporarily gated and locked for a day expressly so as not to
create a public right of way. It was occasionally difficult to persuade
the men on the gates that as a resident I was not a member of the public
for their purposes.

Matthew
--
Záhid sharáb píné dé, masjid mein baith kar
ya woh jagah batá dé jahán Khudá na ho.
http://www.calmeilles.co.uk/