On Tue, 2 Dec 2008, 1506 wrote:

On Dec 2, 11:38*am, MIG wrote:

But it's hard to see that the solution is to shunt Crossrail down to
Hammersmith, when it should concentrate on striking out for Reading
and beyond.

Crossrail SHOULD reach Reading.

No, Crossrail should stop at Slough, and concentrate on being an
affordable and effective suburban railway, and not a pie-in-the-sky all
things to all people scheme.

tom

--
curry in a sack

"Tom Anderson" wrote

No, Crossrail should stop at Slough, and concentrate on being an
affordable and effective suburban railway, and not a pie-in-the-sky all
things to all people scheme.

Crossrail will go to Maidenhead, Heathrow, Shenfield, and Abbey Wood. Any
strong pressure to change any of these destinations is more likely to mean
that Crossrail doesn't happen at all than that changes will be made.
Subsequent add-ons are possible - Reading is the obvious one, so that diesel
trains out of Paddington can be eliminated from the Relief Lines, while the
Main Lines can become a totally 125 mph railway. Gravesend is a long shot,
but may be needed for (and financed by) development in the Thames Gateway.
Another destination west of Paddington would be nice, but no-one has come up
with any convincing case. Richmond - Kingston did not attract universal
support. Amersham - Aylesbury would be nice, so that the Met line can
concentrate on Uxbridge and Watford, while the fast lines beyond
Harrow-on-the-Hill would become single use by Crossrail, and electrified at
25 kV OHLE. But traffic density is insufficient to generate a business case.
More trains can't be pushed down the GWML - there's not teh demand, and
capacity is needed for freight west of Acton Yard. So I think we're stuck
with the Westbourne Park reversing sidings.

Peter

On 2 Dec, 17:50, Tom Anderson wrote:
Is that definite? What allows the H&C to run this currently impossible
frequency? Is this a T-cup thing?

The plan is to run the current Hammersmith-Whitechapel/Backing service
plus the Hammersmith-Circle service, which doubles the number of
trains on the Hammersmith-Paddington stretch.

Are Crossrail trains going to support third rail anyway for the Abbey Wood
bit? If so, you wouldn't even need to OHLEfy Hammersmith.

The bit to Abbey Wood is entirely segregated and thus uses OHLE.

U

On Dec 2, 10:51*pm, "Peter Masson" wrote:
"Tom Anderson" wrote

No, Crossrail should stop at Slough, and concentrate on being an
affordable and effective suburban railway, and not a pie-in-the-sky all
things to all people scheme.

Crossrail will go to Maidenhead, Heathrow, Shenfield, and Abbey Wood. Any
strong pressure to change any of these destinations is more likely to mean
that Crossrail doesn't happen at all than that changes will be made.
Subsequent add-ons are possible - Reading is the obvious one, so that diesel
trains out of Paddington can be eliminated from the Relief Lines, while the
Main Lines can become a totally 125 mph railway. Gravesend is a long shot,
but may be needed for (and financed by) development in the Thames Gateway..
Another destination west of Paddington would be nice, but no-one has come up
with any convincing case. Richmond - Kingston did not attract universal
support. Amersham - Aylesbury would be nice, so that the Met line can
concentrate on Uxbridge and Watford, while the fast lines beyond
Harrow-on-the-Hill would become single use by Crossrail, and electrified at
25 kV OHLE. But traffic density is insufficient to generate a business case.
More trains can't be pushed down the GWML - there's not teh demand, and
capacity is needed for freight west of Acton Yard. So I think we're stuck
with the Westbourne Park reversing sidings.

The problem to my disordered mind is that Crossrail will have to be
duplicated by local diesel trains all the way to Maidenhead in order
to cover the bit from Maidenhead to Reading (which is a huge hub).
The reason is presumably to save on some miles of electrification, but
it's not a logical place to terminate the services while making a
sensible use of paths.

In message
, at
23:49:51 on Tue, 2 Dec 2008, MIG remarked:
The problem to my disordered mind is that Crossrail will have to be
duplicated by local diesel trains all the way to Maidenhead in order
to cover the bit from Maidenhead to Reading (which is a huge hub).
The reason is presumably to save on some miles of electrification

No, the reason is because Cross =rail's funding was hard to get, and
doesn't pay to get all the way to Reading, and in particular won't pay
for the remodelling of Reading that would get lumped in if Crossrail
were to go that far. What many people expect is for Crossrail and
Reading to get their works done from their separate budgets, and then
benefit from a "fill-in" from new money.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote

No, the reason is because Cross =rail's funding was hard to get, and
doesn't pay to get all the way to Reading, and in particular won't pay
for the remodelling of Reading that would get lumped in if Crossrail
were to go that far. What many people expect is for Crossrail and
Reading to get their works done from their separate budgets, and then
benefit from a "fill-in" from new money.

Paddington to Maidenhead is 24 miles, and on to Reading a further 12 - so
even without remodelling Reading it will cost quite a bit to wire on to
Reading. However, Reading to London passengers would be unlikely to use
Crossrail if it ran from Reading, as it will be much quicker to take a
non-stop HST to Paddington, and change to LUL or Crossrail there. So
terminating Croassrail at Maidenhead makes good business sense and
operational nonsense.

Peter

"Tom Anderson" wrote ...
Crossrail SHOULD reach Reading.
No, Crossrail should stop at Slough, and concentrate on being an
affordable and effective suburban railway, and not a pie-in-the-sky all
things to all people scheme.

Crossrail WILL reach Reading, offering myriad onward opportunities (look at
a rail map - where else should it go?); Crossrail WILL reach Ebbsfleet (it
would be crazy not to, until HS1 is extended to Heathrow!); Crossrail will
not stop at Shenfield, looking slightly confused, perhaps a little
embarassed.

But don't expect such obvious common sense until just after it opens - the
'current package' is all about getting the bloody thing built without too
many people whining "We Can't Afford it - Cancel It".

Once it's built, people with brains will start to say Shenfield? Abbey Wood?
Other Stations Halfway To A Logical Junction? Get Real!
--

Andrew
"If A is success in life, then A = x + y + z.
Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut." ~ Albert Einstein

On 3 Dec, 09:40, "Andrew Heenan" wrote:
Once it's built, people with brains will start to say Shenfield? Abbey Wood?
Other Stations Halfway To A Logical Junction? Get Real!

Cockfosters? Epping? West Ruislip? Amersham? Get Real!

Or: Welwyn Garden City? St Albans? Hertford North? Shenfield? High
Wycombe? West Croydon? etc etc

I'd reckon the number of London inner-suburban services terminating
nowhere in particular outweighs the number terminating at a "logical
junction", to apparently no harm.

U

In message , at 09:40:48 on Wed, 3
Dec 2008, Andrew Heenan remarked:
Crossrail WILL reach Reading, offering myriad onward opportunities (look at
a rail map - where else should it go?); Crossrail WILL reach Ebbsfleet (it
would be crazy not to, until HS1 is extended to Heathrow!); Crossrail will
not stop at Shenfield, looking slightly confused, perhaps a little
embarassed.

But don't expect such obvious common sense until just after it opens - the
'current package' is all about getting the bloody thing built without too
many people whining "We Can't Afford it - Cancel It".

Once it's built, people with brains will start to say Shenfield? Abbey Wood?
Other Stations Halfway To A Logical Junction? Get Real!

And where is the obvious place "past Shenfield"? Colchester is the
nearest that makes sense.
--
Roland Perry

"1506" wrote in message
...

Yes! In this instance the cost of conversion of the Hammersmith
branch would be a very small part of the overall cost of Crossrail.

The 'cost' needs to include the disruption to current users of services on
the branch while the conversion is being done. This could be substantial.

D A Stocks