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Crossrail NOT making connections
On Dec 8, 1:33*pm, Mr Thant
wrote: On 8 Dec, 11:47, Tom Anderson wrote: It would be less good for the people of the part of east London that many Londoners erroneously refer to as Essex, of course. There's nothing erroneous about the River Lea. It's a previous administrative boundary, but has no more meaning or significance than the current one. |
Crossrail NOT making connections
In message
, at 05:30:59 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, MIG remarked: Brentwood is the first station in Essex on that line, as I recall. Within the current administrative county of Essex, yes. There have only ever been administrative boundaries. There are postal boundaries too. Ah true, and there are telephone codes, Which rarely have published boundaries. but they are there purely for operational convenience of service providers and also change. They are based on things like the number of delivery points and capacity of exchanges. And whose relevance to this conversation is a little obscure. Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Essex, IG1 1DD Yes, but it's still the address of the London Borough of Redbridge. Which is in Essex. I don't think the Royal Mail includes county names in addresses any more. They use Post Towns (which every village has, and don't imply that the village is actually in that town). A postal address is structured data about delivery points, not a description of where a place really is. It's true that Post-towns for an address may not be in the same county as the address - for example, some villages in Bucks have "Henley" (Oxon) as the post town, but the village is still in Bucks. There is a strange situation in Surrey I think in that some of their administrative offices are not in the region that they administer (ie Kingston). Some of Surrey's County Council offices are in the Borough Of Kingston, an area they no longer administer. -- Roland Perry |
Crossrail NOT making connections
On Dec 8, 2:49*pm, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 05:30:59 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, MIG remarked: Brentwood is the first station in Essex on that line, as I recall. Within the current administrative county of Essex, yes. There have only ever been administrative boundaries. There are postal boundaries too. Ah true, and there are telephone codes, Which rarely have published boundaries. but they are there purely for operational convenience of service providers and also change. *They are based on things like the number of delivery points and capacity of exchanges. And whose relevance to this conversation is a little obscure. Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Essex, IG1 1DD Yes, but it's still the address of the London Borough of Redbridge. Which is in Essex. It may have been in a previous "administrative county of Essex", but that never had any more significance than the current one. It also isn't really the reason why "Essex" is/was in the postal address. The Post Office/Royal Mail has its own system for classifying addresses which are based on its operations and not on past or present administrative boundaries. |
Crossrail NOT making connections
In message
, at 07:26:10 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, MIG remarked: Yes, but it's still the address of the London Borough of Redbridge. Which is in Essex. It may have been in a previous "administrative county of Essex", but that never had any more significance than the current one. So you claim there's no significance to administrative boundaries either? It also isn't really the reason why "Essex" is/was in the postal address. The Post Office/Royal Mail has its own system for classifying addresses which are based on its operations and not on past or present administrative boundaries. So what is the rational basis for claiming that Brentwood is the first railway station in Essex? If neither administrative nor postal boundaries make any sense? -- Roland Perry |
Crossrail NOT making connections
On Dec 8, 3:46*pm, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 07:26:10 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, MIG remarked: Yes, but it's still the address of the London Borough of Redbridge. Which is in Essex. It may have been in a previous "administrative county of Essex", but that never had any more significance than the current one. So you claim there's no significance to administrative boundaries either? Er, no. There's significance to all these things or they wouldn't exist. It also isn't really the reason why "Essex" is/was in the postal address. *The Post Office/Royal Mail has its own system for classifying addresses which are based on its operations and not on past or present administrative boundaries. So what is the rational basis for claiming that Brentwood is the first railway station in Essex? If neither administrative nor postal boundaries make any sense? I don't think I did say that administrative boundaries don't make any sense, I just said that previous ones were no more significant than current ones. The current one has the extra significance of being current of course. Maybe it's one of those self-definition things that they have on equal opportunities questionnaires. People in Ilford feel themselves to be Essex people and face the same prejudices and barriers in life as Essex people. Or something like that. |
Crossrail NOT making connections
On Mon, 8 Dec 2008, MIG wrote:
On Dec 8, 11:47*am, Tom Anderson wrote: On Sun, 7 Dec 2008, Mr Thant wrote: That said, I've decided all Crossrail trains will terminate at Stratford. The people of Essex can go to their rooms and think about what they've done. Actually, that would probably suit the people of Essex quite well, since almost all of them live beyond Shenfield, and thus have to change to get onto Crossrail anyway - having it start at Stratford means they'll be more likely to get a seat. It would be less good for the people of the part of east London that many Londoners erroneously refer to as Essex, of course. Brentwood is the first station in Essex on that line, as I recall. Correct. And as the only station in Essex which wouldn't have fast trains to Stratford [1], they would be particularly hard done by. tom [1] This is probably not true. -- Taking care of business |
Crossrail NOT making connections
On Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 04:44:26 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, MIG remarked: It would be less good for the people of the part of east London that many Londoners erroneously refer to as Essex, of course. Brentwood is the first station in Essex on that line, as I recall. Within the current administrative county of Essex, yes. There have only ever been administrative boundaries. There are postal boundaries too. I've never understood why past administrative boundaries are deemed to have more significance than current ones and somehow represent eg the "real" Essex. Because many people grew up when (eg) Ilford was fully "in Essex", and continue to refer to it as Essex because of its postal address. The borough council, for example, publish the address of: Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Essex, IG1 1DD It would be equally correct to write: Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Outer Mongolia, IG1 1DD Since the Royal Mail no longer use counties. tom -- Taking care of business |
Crossrail NOT making connections
On Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Mr Thant wrote:
On 8 Dec, 11:47, Tom Anderson wrote: It would be less good for the people of the part of east London that many Londoners erroneously refer to as Essex, of course. There's nothing erroneous about the River Lea. You've evidently never been there - there are a great many outstandingly erroneous things about it! The algal scum covering the section between the waterworks and the Hertford canal junction in the summer, for starters. tom -- Taking care of business |
Crossrail NOT making connections
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Crossrail NOT making connections
In message , at
16:03:04 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Tom Anderson remarked: Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Essex, IG1 1DD It would be equally correct to write: Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Outer Mongolia, IG1 1DD No, because it makes no sense. -- Roland Perry |
Crossrail NOT making connections
In message , at
16:01:51 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Tom Anderson remarked: Brentwood is the first station in Essex on that line, as I recall. Correct. And as the only station in Essex which wouldn't have fast trains to Stratford [1], they would be particularly hard done by. That's the current situation I think. [1] This is probably not true. Wildly untrue. None of the stations between Shenfield and Southend have fast trains to London, for example. -- Roland Perry |
Crossrail NOT making connections
On Dec 8, 8:15*pm, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:01:51 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Tom Anderson remarked: Brentwood is the first station in Essex on that line, as I recall. Correct. And as the only station in Essex which wouldn't have fast trains to Stratford [1], they would be particularly hard done by. That's the current situation I think. *[1] This is probably not true. Wildly untrue. None of the stations between Shenfield and Southend have fast trains to London, for example. It's true if "fast" means "non-stop from Shenfield". They all have trains that go non-stop from Shenfield, and some non-stop from Billericay. Brentwood is currently only served by trains that do all stations off- peak and substantial number of stations in the peak. It wouldn't be a change to get a similar service under Crossrail. It's the only station in Essex (current boundary ...) not to have non-stop trains even to Stratford, but then it's the sort of station that non-stop trains don't stop at, so not really surprising. |
Crossrail NOT making connections
On Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:01:51 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Tom Anderson remarked: Brentwood is the first station in Essex on that line, as I recall. Correct. And as the only station in Essex which wouldn't have fast trains to Stratford [1], they would be particularly hard done by. That's the current situation I think. [1] This is probably not true. Wildly untrue. None of the stations between Shenfield and Southend have fast trains to London, for example. Really? The next train to leave Prittlewell, the 2048, calls all stops to Shenfield, then Romford, Stratford and Liverpool Street, taking 16 minutes to get from Shenfield to Stratford - which i'd consider fast. Would you not? Perhaps you'd call this semi-fast? This illustrates the terminological difficulties we recently touched on in another thread! tom -- blackguard, coward, git, guttersnipe, hooligan, ignoramus, liar, rat, swine, stoolpigeon, and traitor |
Crossrail NOT making connections
On Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 16:01:51 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Tom Anderson remarked: Brentwood is the first station in Essex on that line, as I recall. Correct. And as the only station in Essex which wouldn't have fast trains to Stratford [1], they would be particularly hard done by. That's the current situation I think. [1] This is probably not true. Wildly untrue. None of the stations between Shenfield and Southend have fast trains to London, for example. Really? The next train to leave Prittlewell, the 2048, calls all stops to Shenfield, then Romford, Stratford and Liverpool Street, taking 16 minutes to get from Shenfield to Stratford - which i'd consider fast. Would you not? Perhaps you'd call this semi-fast? This illustrates the terminological difficulties we recently touched on in another thread! Although if you'd said "between Fenchurch Street and Southend", you'd have nailed me, of course. tom -- blackguard, coward, git, guttersnipe, hooligan, ignoramus, liar, rat, swine, stoolpigeon, and traitor |
Crossrail NOT making connections
On Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 16:03:04 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Tom Anderson remarked: Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Essex, IG1 1DD It would be equally correct to write: Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Outer Mongolia, IG1 1DD No, because it makes no sense. Neither of them are correct. Both of them would get delivered correctly. tom -- blackguard, coward, git, guttersnipe, hooligan, ignoramus, liar, rat, swine, stoolpigeon, and traitor |
Crossrail NOT making connections
On Dec 8, 8:41*pm, MIG wrote:
On Dec 8, 8:15*pm, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 16:01:51 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Tom Anderson remarked: Brentwood is the first station in Essex on that line, as I recall. Correct. And as the only station in Essex which wouldn't have fast trains to Stratford [1], they would be particularly hard done by. That's the current situation I think. *[1] This is probably not true. Wildly untrue. None of the stations between Shenfield and Southend have fast trains to London, for example. It's true if "fast" means "non-stop from Shenfield". *They all have trains that go non-stop from Shenfield, and some non-stop from Billericay. Brentwood is currently only served by trains that do all stations off- peak and substantial number of stations in the peak. *It wouldn't be a change to get a similar service under Crossrail. *It's the only station in Essex (current boundary ...) not to have non-stop trains even to Stratford, but then it's the sort of station that non-stop trains don't stop at, so not really surprising. I was expressing that badly. I am getting at it not having trains that go non-stop to Stratford from no further out than Shenfield. But really this boils down to it being the only station in Essex (current boundary) that isn't further out than Shenfield. |
Crossrail NOT making connections
In message , at
20:46:04 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Tom Anderson remarked: Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Essex, IG1 1DD It would be equally correct to write: Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Outer Mongolia, IG1 1DD No, because it makes no sense. Neither of them are correct. Both of them would get delivered correctly. One has additions which are helpful (to the public if not the Post Office's automatic sorting machine), the other is comedy. -- Roland Perry |
Crossrail NOT making connections
In message
, at 12:41:36 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, MIG remarked: Brentwood is the first station in Essex on that line, as I recall. Correct. And as the only station in Essex which wouldn't have fast trains to Stratford [1], they would be particularly hard done by. That's the current situation I think. *[1] This is probably not true. Wildly untrue. None of the stations between Shenfield and Southend have fast trains to London, for example. It's true if "fast" means "non-stop from Shenfield". That isn't a useful definition of "fast" in this context. They all have trains that go non-stop from Shenfield, and some non-stop from Billericay. Some trains, perhaps. I think one an hour misses Romford. Brentwood is currently only served by trains that do all stations off- peak and substantial number of stations in the peak. It wouldn't be a change to get a similar service under Crossrail. But I remember it when most of the Brentwood trains were semi-fast. It's the only station in Essex (current boundary ...) not to have non-stop trains even to Stratford, Only if non-stop means "stops every station as far as Shenfield, then has one or two stops". (Which is true of many stations on the Colchester line as well as the Southend line). but then it's the sort of station that non-stop trains don't stop at, so not really surprising. Semi-fasts worked well in the past - when Gidea Park was the "edge of London" as far as stoppers was concerned. -- Roland Perry |
Crossrail NOT making connections
In message , at
20:43:55 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Tom Anderson remarked: None of the stations between Shenfield and Southend have fast trains to London, for example. Really? The next train to leave Prittlewell, the 2048, calls all stops to Shenfield, And you call that "fast"?? Sheesh. -- Roland Perry |
Crossrail NOT making connections
Roland Perry wrote:
Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Essex, IG1 1DD Yes, but it's still the address of the London Borough of Redbridge. Which is in Essex. Letters addressed to: Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, IG1 1DD Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Redbridge, IG1 1DD Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, London, IG1 1DD Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Redbridge, London, IG1 1DD Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, London Borough of Redbridge, IG1 1DD Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Nevernever Land, IG1 1DD ....will all get to the same place. (For some reason a lot of my eBay traffic has come from Richmond-upon-Thames and I've sent to customer supplied addresses for "Surrey", "London" and "[no county entry]". All have arrived at the same rate.) It's true that Post-towns for an address may not be in the same county as the address - for example, some villages in Bucks have "Henley" (Oxon) as the post town, but the village is still in Bucks. Yes because of where the mail goes via. But the Royal Mail dropped the requirement for the county to be included back in 1996 when they switched over their systems, and they're fine whether you use the administrative county, the traditional county, the ceremonial county, the postal county, a made up county or nothing at all. There is a strange situation in Surrey I think in that some of their administrative offices are not in the region that they administer (ie Kingston). Some of Surrey's County Council offices are in the Borough Of Kingston, an area they no longer administer. A hangover from the creation of Greater London. There seem to have been umpteen schemes over the years for relocating to Woking but nothing ever seems to come of them. |
Crossrail NOT making connections
Mr Thant wrote:
It would be less good for the people of the part of east London that many Londoners erroneously refer to as Essex, of course. There's nothing erroneous about the River Lea. So why do I, living in Forest Gate to the east of the Lea, never here or feel this Essex spirit here? |
Crossrail NOT making connections
On Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 20:43:55 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Tom Anderson remarked: None of the stations between Shenfield and Southend have fast trains to London, for example. Really? The next train to leave Prittlewell, the 2048, calls all stops to Shenfield, And you call that "fast"?? Sheesh. Fast from Shenfield. Sorry, we're using different definitions of the term here, and thus arguing at cross purposes. I don't know if you remember, but we were talking about Crossrail, and connecting with it, particularly if it only ran to Stratford, as Mr Thant - flippantly, i think - suggested. What's relevant there is whether any given station in Essex has a service which will get you to Stratford, to catch a Stratford-Crossrail train, more quickly than you would if you went to Shenfield and changed onto a Shenfield-Crossrail train there. This boils down to whether a station has a service which runs non- or few-stop Shenfield - Stratford. Shenfield does, thanks to expresses which call there. All stations beyond Shenfield do, as that's how the London leg of their routes work. Brentwood is the only station which doesn't. Of course, most of those trains aren't fast over all of their route. Almost none of them are, in fact - just the Norwich intercities, i think, and those don't even stop at Stratford. tom -- blackguard, coward, git, guttersnipe, hooligan, ignoramus, liar, rat, swine, stoolpigeon, and traitor |
Crossrail NOT making connections
MIG wrote:
Maybe it's one of those self-definition things that they have on equal opportunities questionnaires. People in Ilford feel themselves to be Essex people and face the same prejudices and barriers in life as Essex people. Or something like that. A sweeping statement - have you told that to the people lobbying for the postcode to be changed to E20 so that businesses there don't appear to be outside London? |
Crossrail NOT making connections
"Roland Perry" wrote :
Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Essex, IG1 1DD Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Outer Mongolia, IG1 1DD Neither of them are correct. Both of them would get delivered correctly. One has additions which are helpful (to the public if not the Post Office's automatic sorting machine), the other is comedy. Incorrect, actually. Since the day that Tony Benn introduced postcodes, adding the 'county' has been a waste of ink. It's utterly redundant to the sorting process and the postman on his round. And I fail to see how it helps anybody else, especially in and around London, when several Essex, Kent and Surrey addresses (not to mention 100% of Middlesex), are actually part of Greater London. County has a historical value for those who value local history, such as Men of Kent and Kentish Men plus Yorkshire Folk, but to most normal human beings, the county is an irrelevance. Sorry. -- Andrew Interviewer: Tonight I'm interviewing that famous nurse, Florence Nightingale Tommy Cooper (dressed as a nurse): Sir Florence Nightingale Interviewer: *Sir* Florence Nightingale? Tommy Cooper: I'm a Night Nurse Campaign For The Real Tommy Cooper |
Crossrail NOT making connections
On Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 20:46:04 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Tom Anderson remarked: Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Essex, IG1 1DD It would be equally correct to write: Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Outer Mongolia, IG1 1DD No, because it makes no sense. Neither of them are correct. Both of them would get delivered correctly. One has additions which are helpful (to the public if not the Post Office's automatic sorting machine), the other is comedy. I don't see how the former is helpful. If you want to write them a letter, then the postcode is sufficient, and the addition of Essex is completely superfluous. If you actually want to go there, the addition of Essex is actually unhelpful, because if you have modern maps and are not aware that there's a bit of London which thinks it's in Essex, you'll be looking on the wrong page. Unless you just look up Ilford directly, in which case the county designation again is completely superfluous. tom -- blackguard, coward, git, guttersnipe, hooligan, ignoramus, liar, rat, swine, stoolpigeon, and traitor |
Crossrail NOT making connections
On Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:41:36 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, MIG remarked: Brentwood is the first station in Essex on that line, as I recall. Correct. And as the only station in Essex which wouldn't have fast trains to Stratford [1], they would be particularly hard done by. That's the current situation I think. *[1] This is probably not true. Wildly untrue. None of the stations between Shenfield and Southend have fast trains to London, for example. It's true if "fast" means "non-stop from Shenfield". That isn't a useful definition of "fast" in this context. Actually, in this context, it's the *only* useful definition. tom -- blackguard, coward, git, guttersnipe, hooligan, ignoramus, liar, rat, swine, stoolpigeon, and traitor |
Crossrail NOT making connections
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 20:43:55 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Tom Anderson remarked: None of the stations between Shenfield and Southend have fast trains to London, for example. Really? The next train to leave Prittlewell, the 2048, calls all stops to Shenfield, And you call that "fast"?? Sheesh. You would if you lived in Billericay. |
Crossrail NOT making connections
Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 16:03:04 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Tom Anderson remarked: Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Essex, IG1 1DD It would be equally correct to write: Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Outer Mongolia, IG1 1DD No, because it makes no sense. Neither of them are correct. Both of them would get delivered correctly. Although the latter would take a few weeks longer. |
Crossrail NOT making connections
Andrew Heenan wrote:
Since the day that Tony Benn introduced postcodes, adding the 'county' has been a waste of ink. It's utterly redundant to the sorting process and the postman on his round. It was actually in 1996 the requirement was dropped, long after Tony Benn. Indeed some of the 1972 Local Government Act changes were incorporated into the postal addresses - "Avon" was a particularly unpopular one. And I fail to see how it helps anybody else, especially in and around London, when several Essex, Kent and Surrey addresses (not to mention 100% of Middlesex), are actually part of Greater London. Not all of Middlesex - Spelthorne was put into Surrey and the postal counties never updated to that. But I agree it only adds to confusion. |
Crossrail NOT making connections
Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
Andrew Heenan wrote: And I fail to see how it helps anybody else, especially in and around London, when several Essex, Kent and Surrey addresses (not to mention 100% of Middlesex), are actually part of Greater London. Not all of Middlesex - Spelthorne was put into Surrey and the postal counties never updated to that. But I agree it only adds to confusion. And the Potters Bar part of Middlesex was given to Hertfordshire (which meant that the boundary between Barnet and Potters Bar went from having Hertfordshire on the south side only to having Hertfordshire on the north side only). |
Crossrail NOT making connections
In message , at 22:29:32 on Mon, 8
Dec 2008, Tim Roll-Pickering remarked: Letters addressed to: Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, IG1 1DD Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Redbridge, IG1 1DD Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, London, IG1 1DD Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Redbridge, London, IG1 1DD Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, London Borough of Redbridge, IG1 1DD Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Nevernever Land, IG1 1DD ...will all get to the same place. In Essex :) -- Roland Perry |
Crossrail NOT making connections
In message , at 22:31:43 on Mon, 8
Dec 2008, Andrew Heenan remarked: Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Essex, IG1 1DD Town Hall, 128-142 High Road, Ilford, Outer Mongolia, IG1 1DD Neither of them are correct. Both of them would get delivered correctly. One has additions which are helpful (to the public if not the Post Office's automatic sorting machine), the other is comedy. Incorrect, actually. Since the day that Tony Benn introduced postcodes, adding the 'county' has been a waste of ink. It's utterly redundant to the sorting process and the postman on his round. So what you meant to write was "Correct, actually". The additions of either Essex or Outer Mongolia not helping the Post office's automatic sorting machine. But for people who live the other end of the country, and haven't the faintest idea what "IG" stands for, adding "Essex" is quite helpful, and adding "Outer Mongolia" is puerile comedy. -- Roland Perry |
Crossrail NOT making connections
In message , at
22:33:26 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Tom Anderson remarked: I don't see how the former is helpful. If you want to write them a letter, then the postcode is sufficient, and the addition of Essex is completely superfluous. If you actually want to go there, the addition of Essex is actually unhelpful, because if you have modern maps and are not aware that there's a bit of London which thinks it's in Essex, you'll be looking on the wrong page. Unless you just look up Ilford directly, in which case the county designation again is completely superfluous. It's very helpful to have a steer that "IG" is in fact in the old county of Essex, and not Cornwall. -- Roland Perry |
Crossrail NOT making connections
In message , at
22:34:14 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Tom Anderson remarked: It's true if "fast" means "non-stop from Shenfield". That isn't a useful definition of "fast" in this context. Actually, in this context, it's the *only* useful definition. You may think it useful, but it's actually completely wrong and unhelpful. I might accept "semi-fast", although the nearer you are to Southend the less this applies. -- Roland Perry |
Crossrail NOT making connections
In message , at
22:29:59 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, Tom Anderson remarked: I don't know if you remember, but we were talking about Crossrail, and connecting with it I thought we were talking about the likelihood that a person from Southend would travel to London via Shenfield (rather than to Fenchurch Street), if the line became Crossrail and all the trains became all-stations stoppers. -- Roland Perry |
Crossrail NOT making connections
In message , at 22:36:08 on Mon, 8
Dec 2008, John Rowland remarked: The next train to leave Prittlewell, the 2048, calls all stops to Shenfield, And you call that "fast"?? Sheesh. You would if you lived in Billericay. I'd call it semi-fast - but not if I lived in Prittlewell. -- Roland Perry |
Crossrail NOT making connections
On Dec 8, 10:31*pm, "Tim Roll-Pickering" T.C.Roll-
wrote: MIG wrote: Maybe it's one of those self-definition things that they have on equal opportunities questionnaires. *People in Ilford feel themselves to be Essex people and face the same prejudices and barriers in life as Essex people. *Or something like that. A sweeping statement - have you told that to the people lobbying for the postcode to be changed to E20 so that businesses there don't appear to be outside London? Nah, that's Walford. I was parodying a "self-definition" idea that I don't go along with. Most distinctions between people aren't worth making. Knowing who runs the local government might be worth noting. Therefore Ilford is in London and that's the end of it. |
Crossrail NOT making connections
On Dec 8, 9:43*pm, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:41:36 on Mon, 8 Dec 2008, MIG remarked: Brentwood is the first station in Essex on that line, as I recall. Correct. And as the only station in Essex which wouldn't have fast trains to Stratford [1], they would be particularly hard done by. That's the current situation I think. *[1] This is probably not true. Wildly untrue. None of the stations between Shenfield and Southend have fast trains to London, for example. It's true if "fast" means "non-stop from Shenfield". That isn't a useful definition of "fast" in this context. They all have trains that go non-stop from Shenfield, and some non-stop from Billericay. Some trains, perhaps. I think one an hour misses Romford. Brentwood is currently only served by trains that do all stations off- peak and substantial number of stations in the peak. *It wouldn't be a change to get a similar service under Crossrail. But I remember it when most of the Brentwood trains were semi-fast. As I was describing somewhere else in this thread a few daze ago. Brentwood was served by the Southends (and Southminsters sometimes) which did all stations to Romford, then Ilford and Stratford, and the all-stations started in from Gidea Park. Then the all-stations were extended to start from Shenfield and the Southends were moved to the fast tracks, so Brentwood got a more frequent but slower service (as did Harold Wood). Gidea Park got a reduced service. |
Crossrail NOT making connections
"Roland Perry" wrote
Tom Anderson remarked: I don't see how the former is helpful. If you want to write them a letter, then the postcode is sufficient, and the addition of Essex is completely superfluous. If you actually want to go there, the addition of Essex is actually unhelpful, because if you have modern maps and are not aware that there's a bit of London which thinks it's in Essex, you'll be looking on the wrong page. Unless you just look up Ilford directly, in which case the county designation again is completely superfluous. It's very helpful to have a steer that "IG" is in fact in the old county of Essex, and not Cornwall. As a matter of interest, where did 'IG' come from? In my view, its derivation is the least obvious of all the postcodes. I can work out all the other slightly obscure ones e.g. SP=Salisbury Plain, DG=Dumfries & Galloway etc., but the only suggestion I've ever heard for IG is Ilford & Gants Hill, which seems unlikely. |
Crossrail NOT making connections
"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote ...
It was actually in 1996 the requirement was dropped, long after Tony Benn. Indeed some of the 1972 Local Government Act changes were incorporated into the postal addresses - "Avon" was a particularly unpopular one. I know nothing (and could care less) about governmental 'requirements' - whether they 'required it' or not, it has been superfluous since the seventies. I suspect the 1996 change merely codified the day to day reality of the previous thirty-odd years. That's the level of efficiency I've come to expect form government bureaucracy. -- Andrew Interviewer: Tonight I'm interviewing that famous nurse, Florence Nightingale Tommy Cooper (dressed as a nurse): Sir Florence Nightingale Interviewer: *Sir* Florence Nightingale? Tommy Cooper: I'm a Night Nurse Campaign For The Real Tommy Cooper |
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