TfL have now published the 2009 fares leaflet.

It's available at tube stations or at

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresandtickets/2930.aspx

No real surprises in it. The new mid-day off peak fares are the same
as the evening ones.

On 6 Dec, 22:30, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:
No real surprises in it. The new mid-day off peak fares are the same
as the evening ones.

The differential fares are now called "peak"/"off-peak" rather than
"0700-1900"/"all other times", which means a journey made between
1600-1900 is charged at "peak" rates but contributes to your "off
peak" cap.

The image on the front cover has been updated with the new Tramlink
livery (a more palatable version than the real thing, in fact), and
the DLR train has been moved further onto the page, but is still the
old design.

U

"Matthew Dickinson" wrote in message
...
TfL have now published the 2009 fares leaflet.

It's available at tube stations or at

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresandtickets/2930.aspx

No real surprises in it. The new mid-day off peak fares are the same
as the evening ones.

You would hope there wouldn't be any surprises, given the information was
published (and discussed here) in September...

However I don't recall discussing the morning peak fares starting at 0630
rather than 0700 before. Was that flagged up in advance?

Paul S

Matthew Dickinson wrote in
:

TfL have now published the 2009 fares leaflet.

It's available at tube stations or at

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresandtickets/2930.aspx

No real surprises in it. The new mid-day off peak fares are the same
as the evening ones.

The explanation of Oyster includes the paragraph

"Your Tube, DLR, London Overground and National
Rail pay as you go journey must be completed within
two and a half hours of you having touched in at the
start of your journey. If the time between touching
in and touching out exceeds two and a half hours
you will be charged more than the Oyster single fare
for your journey. If this happens, you will need to
call the Oyster helpline for assistance."

I belive this is the first that it has been documented (and is also a
change as the current limit is understood to be two hours).


David

On Dec 7, 4:04*pm, David Jackman pleasereplytogroup wrote:
Matthew Dickinson wrote :

TfL have now published the 2009 fares leaflet.

It's available at tube stations or at

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresandtickets/2930.aspx

No real surprises in it. The new mid-day off peak fares are the same
as the evening ones.

The explanation of Oyster includes the paragraph

"Your Tube, DLR, London Overground and National
Rail pay as you go journey must be completed within
two and a half hours of you having touched in at the
start of your journey. If the time between touching
in and touching out exceeds two and a half hours
you will be charged more than the Oyster single fare
for your journey. If this happens, you will need to
call the Oyster helpline for assistance."

I belive this is the first that it has been documented (and is also a
change as the current limit is understood to be two hours). * * * *

David

It doesn't say whether the timer is reset on touching in at an
intermediate point (eg OOS interchange). Presumably it is not, from
past threads, but someone might reasonably assuming that touching in
is touching in.

So if you go to Stratford, do whatever you need to do in half an hour,
and then go back home from Stratford, you could end up being charged 2
x £4 instead of 2 x £1.50 (or whatever the new fares are) for the
original journey not being completed in 2½ hours and an unresolved
touch out when you get home.

It seems to me that if all the touches are recorded, the system should
be able to recalculate the OOS as two journeys.

On 7 Dec, 16:19, MIG wrote:
So if you go to Stratford, do whatever you need to do in half an hour,
and then go back home from Stratford, you could end up being charged 2
x £4 instead of 2 x £1.50 (or whatever the new fares are) for the
original journey not being completed in 2½ hours and an unresolved
touch out when you get home.

Why Stratford? You can't get out of the station without actually
touching out. Have you had this problem there?

If it was somewhere like Shepherd's Bush and you arrived by
Overground, popped into Waitrose (or Morrisson's) and left by
Underground, you'd be more likely to run into it.

It seems to me that if all the touches are recorded, the system should
be able to recalculate the OOS as two journeys.

As far as I can tell, when you touch back in, it has to decide there
and then whether to reopen the previous journey. Recalculating
retroactively seems to be beyond the capabilities of the current
system.

U

On Dec 7, 4:42*pm, Mr Thant
wrote:
On 7 Dec, 16:19, MIG wrote:

So if you go to Stratford, do whatever you need to do in half an hour,
and then go back home from Stratford, you could end up being charged 2
x £4 instead of 2 x £1.50 (or whatever the new fares are) for the
original journey not being completed in 2½ hours and an unresolved
touch out when you get home.

Why Stratford? You can't get out of the station without actually
touching out. Have you had this problem there?

I was trying to think of somewhere which was reported to have a
particularly long timeout. Maybe Shepherds Bush would be a more
approriate example.


If it was somewhere like Shepherd's Bush and you arrived by
Overground, popped into Waitrose (or Morrisson's) and left by
Underground, you'd be more likely to run into it.

It seems to me that if all the touches are recorded, the system should
be able to recalculate the OOS as two journeys.

As far as I can tell, when you touch back in, it has to decide there
and then whether to reopen the previous journey. Recalculating
retroactively seems to be beyond the capabilities of the current
system.

It may be, but I can't understand why, given that recalculating
retroactively seems to be what it does all the time, and that all
kinds of adjustment can be done manually at the ticket office (and
surely anything that the system can do can be automated).

There is certainly no moral justification, even if there might just
possibly be a practical one. The excuse for the unresolved fares is
that you are assumed to have been to an ungated station miles away if
you can't prove where you've been*. If all your touches are recorded,
that excuse really doesn't wash.

*An assumption of guilt not applied to travelcards or other tickets.

Mr Thant wrote

If it was somewhere like Shepherd's Bush and you arrived by
Overground, popped into Waitrose (or Morrisson's) and left by
Underground, you'd be more likely to run into it.

IIRC the original event was someone picking a shoe repair near Bow
Church / Bow Road OSI but Euston / Euston Square seems a likely place
too.

It seems to me that if all the touches are recorded, the system
should
be able to recalculate the OOS as two journeys.

As far as I can tell, when you touch back in, it has to decide there
and then whether to reopen the previous journey. Recalculating
retroactively seems to be beyond the capabilities of the current
system.

Does the touch back in have to be at a different barriered zone to
counts as an OSI? If so, returning by exactly the same route can't
trigger the problem.

And what if OOS touch is within the 30 minutes but already over the "2
hours" ?

One, very generous, solution would be to start a new "2 hour" period
each time you touched in

--
Mike D

"Michael R N Dolbear" wrote in message
news:01c958ac$8ae2ac20$LocalHost@default...


Mr Thant wrote

If it was somewhere like Shepherd's Bush and you arrived by
Overground, popped into Waitrose (or Morrisson's) and left by
Underground, you'd be more likely to run into it.

IIRC the original event was someone picking a shoe repair near Bow
Church / Bow Road OSI but Euston / Euston Square seems a likely place
too.

It seems to me that if all the touches are recorded, the system
should
be able to recalculate the OOS as two journeys.

As far as I can tell, when you touch back in, it has to decide there
and then whether to reopen the previous journey. Recalculating
retroactively seems to be beyond the capabilities of the current
system.

Does the touch back in have to be at a different barriered zone to
counts as an OSI? If so, returning by exactly the same route can't
trigger the problem.

And what if OOS touch is within the 30 minutes but already over the "2
hours" ?

One, very generous, solution would be to start a new "2 hour" period
each time you touched in

--
Mike D



So just to clarify what hours are now classed as peak?

On Dec 8, 8:12*am, wrote:
"Michael R N Dolbear" wrote in messagenews:01c958ac$8ae2ac20$LocalHost@default...







Mr Thant wrote

If it was somewhere like Shepherd's Bush and you arrived by
Overground, popped into Waitrose (or Morrisson's) and left by
Underground, you'd be more likely to run into it.

IIRC the original event was someone picking a shoe repair near Bow
Church / Bow Road OSI but Euston / Euston Square seems a likely place
too.

It seems to me that if all the touches are recorded, the system
should
be able to recalculate the OOS as two journeys.

As far as I can tell, when you touch back in, it has to decide there
and then whether to reopen the previous journey. Recalculating
retroactively seems to be beyond the capabilities of the current
system.

Does the touch back in have to be at a different barriered zone to
counts as an OSI? If so, returning by exactly the same route can't
trigger the problem.

And what if OOS touch is within the 30 minutes but already over the "2
hours" ?

One, very generous, solution would be to start a new "2 hour" period
each time you touched in

--
Mike D

So just to clarify what hours are now classed as peak?

For the price of a single journey or for capping? (Reminds me of an
episode of South Park where the aliens are confused if you don't use
the same word for everything.)