On Dec 13, 10:58*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 13 Dec, 22:02, Tom Anderson wrote:





On Sat, 13 Dec 2008, MIG wrote:

On Dec 13, 4:47*pm, Mizter T wrote:

Many (inc. Paul C) have said that better information should be provided
- I suspect the basic problem with providing this information is that
it might assist people in working out the potential loopholes that are
inherent with interchange validators, something I've hinted at in the
past though I note one contributor to this ng recently laid it out in a
straightforward manner. In other words spelling out exactly how they
work will assist people to abuse the system.

Much as I admire your knowledgeable and good-tempered contributions,
that has got to be the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.

Keeping the rules a secret in order to increase compliance with the
rules?

Mizter T is a former home secretary, AICMFP.

tom

You'll end up in Guantanamo for reason redacted if you're not
careful sonny!

I think that's what they call an unresolved journey ...

In message
, at
07:15:51 on Sat, 13 Dec 2008, Mizter T remarked:
I must say that I'm a fan (if that's not too odd a thing to say!) of
the facilities at St. Pancras - very clean and free to use.

When they are open. The main gents has been closed more often that it
was open on my trips in the last six months, and there's a perpetual
queue out of the door for the ladies.

The 'secondary' toilets beyond the Circle are ludicrously far away.

I suppose my usage of them is being subsidised by frequent Eurostar and
EMT travellers (such as yourself), stations shoppers and Champagne
quaffers - so thanks!

There ought to be another set of toilets upstairs near the Champagne
bar. They would be a better use of the space than yet another overpriced
restaurant.
--
Roland Perry

In message
, at
10:42:26 on Sat, 13 Dec 2008, Mizter T remarked:
Also, as Roland Perry states elsewhere the Off-peak Single is a rare
fare near London - indeed I'd say it's a rare fare for journeys wholly
within the south east (i.e. the old Network South East area).

Now that I live in the Midlands, I tend to regard "NSE area" and "near
London" as much the same concept
--
Roland Perry

On Sun, 14 Dec 2008, MIG wrote:

On Dec 13, 10:58*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 13 Dec, 22:02, Tom Anderson wrote:

On Sat, 13 Dec 2008, MIG wrote:

On Dec 13, 4:47*pm, Mizter T wrote:

Many (inc. Paul C) have said that better information should be provided
- I suspect the basic problem with providing this information is that
it might assist people in working out the potential loopholes that are
inherent with interchange validators, something I've hinted at in the
past though I note one contributor to this ng recently laid it out in a
straightforward manner. In other words spelling out exactly how they
work will assist people to abuse the system.

Much as I admire your knowledgeable and good-tempered contributions,
that has got to be the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.

Keeping the rules a secret in order to increase compliance with the
rules?

Mizter T is a former home secretary, AICMFP.

You'll end up in Guantanamo for reason redacted if you're not
careful sonny!

I think that's what they call an unresolved journey ...

Impossible - i'm pretty sure Guantanamo's gated.

tom

--
There is a faster way to find out...

On Dec 13, 9:07*pm, Mizter T wrote:

[much cut]

Yes it will. I'll stop pussyfooting around so much and expand on this.
I don't know the official terminology but touching on interchange
validators is in effect treated as a 'soft exit' from the PAYG system
- in other words it means that the passenger might be doing one of two
things, either
(a) finishing their PAYG journey and presumably continuing using
another paper ticket, or
(b) touching-in midway through their journey at the point of
interchange, and they will touch out later when they exit the system
at their destination.

In other words it is ambiguous, because the system cannot know what a
passenger intends to do. In any case if a passenger is inspected later
then their Oyster card will be legitimately validated (within the time
limit at least).

I'm not going to spell it out, but you can see how this could be
abused by someone who wanted to sidestep paying the whole fare due.



And for that matter do the Jubilee barriers work to both interchange Canning
Town to Leyton and finish the Oyster section of Canning Town to non-Oyster,
or does the latter require touching out on the platform barriers as well?

Again the unusual Jubilee line gates have the exact same 'interchange'
attributes as the interchange validators, because a passenger might
fall into either scenario (a) or scenario (b) which I outlined above.



Many (inc. Paul C) have said that better information should be
provided - I suspect the basic problem with providing this information
is that it might assist people in working out the potential loopholes
that are inherent with interchange validators, something I've hinted
at in the past though I note one contributor to this ng recently laid
it out in a straightforward manner. In other words spelling out
exactly how they work will assist people to abuse the system.

So instead it encourages people to get confused and make mistakes because
they don't know and can't find out how to do it correctly?

I suppose the point is that they can't make a mistake even if they are
'Oyster touch-happy' - i.e. the system is tolerant of people touching-
in several times. My hypothesis is that the way the system works is
not explained for fear that people will figure out how to scam it. As
more ungated National Rail stations enter the fray as more routes
accept PAYG, this issue only increases.

Not that I plan to try, but does that mean that if I was to get on the
DLR at, say, Greenwich and touch the pad there to start the journey,
and then keep jumping out and touching at various stations along the
way and then eventually exit through the barriers at Bank, would I be
charged for just the one journey or have a string or unresolved
journeys?

But I am not clear on whether there is a distinction between
"interchange" validators and other standalone validators (ie all along
the DLR) which are neither entry nor exit.

Maybe if I restricted my touches to Greenwich, Heron Quays and Canary
Wharf and then ended the journey at Bank it would be different from
touching at Mudchute etc.

On 14 Dec, 11:45, Tom Anderson wrote:

On Sun, 14 Dec 2008, MIG wrote:

On Dec 13, 10:58*pm, Mizter T wrote:

On 13 Dec, 22:02, Tom Anderson wrote:

(snip)

Mizter T is a former home secretary, AICMFP.

You'll end up in Guantanamo for reason redacted if you're not
careful sonny!

I think that's what they call an unresolved journey ...

Impossible - i'm pretty sure Guantanamo's gated.


Gated but it's entry only - once inside it appears that your journey
times out.

Of course there's a new operator on the scene in January who's stated
their intention to resolve matters, so it'll be interesting to see how
they do so - no possibility of penalty fares so it's either
prosecution or being set free (though possibly only to somewhere
outside the zonal system)... or is it - we shall see I suppose.

"Mizter T" wrote :
Of course there's a new operator on the scene in
January who's stated their intention to resolve matters,
so it'll be interesting to see how they do so - no
possibility of penalty fares so it's either prosecution or
being set free (though possibly only to somewhere
outside the zonal system)... or is it - we shall see I
suppose.

So long as he moves the depot from where its ownership is disputed, he gets
my vote. What d'ya mean, he doesn't want it?

He'll be wary of setting them free without installing some kind of satellite
tracking; they'll have a travel card talking to one satellite, and an ankle
bracelet talking to another. Is there a word for that, besides 'asbo'?
--

Andrew

"She plays the tuba.
It is the only instrument capable
of imitating a distress call."

On Dec 14, 12:41*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 14 Dec, 11:45, Tom Anderson wrote:







On Sun, 14 Dec 2008, MIG wrote:

On Dec 13, 10:58*pm, Mizter T wrote:

On 13 Dec, 22:02, Tom Anderson wrote:

(snip)

Mizter T is a former home secretary, AICMFP.

You'll end up in Guantanamo for reason redacted if you're not
careful sonny!

I think that's what they call an unresolved journey ...

Impossible - i'm pretty sure Guantanamo's gated.

Gated but it's entry only - once inside it appears that your journey
times out.

Of course there's a new operator on the scene in January who's stated
their intention to resolve matters, so it'll be interesting to see how
they do so - no possibility of penalty fares so it's either
prosecution or being set free (though possibly only to somewhere
outside the zonal system)... or is it - we shall see I suppose.

It may depend on whether capping can apply.

In article ,
(Duncan) wrote:

I expect that the automatic wide gates will be bi-directional
though based on other stations.

Which other station? None of the wide gates I know are bi-directional but
they are mainly FCC or TfL gates.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article
,
(Mizter T) wrote:

On 13 Dec, 18:26, "Michael R N Dolbear" wrote:

Mizter T wrote

On 13 Dec, 11:15, Roland Perry wrote:

Dec 2008, Michael R N Dolbear remarked:

Is there such a thing as a Off-peak Single ?

Depends on the route. I've found them to be less prevalent
near London.

There isn't for Richmond to London.

That's a fare that falls within the London zonal fares regime *-
since January 2007 all National Rail fares in the London zones,
regardless of TOC, are priced set according to a zonal fare scale
(though still issued on a point-to-point basis).

The only tickets available for such journeys are Anytime Singles,
Anytime Day Returns and Off-Peak Returns (aka CDRs) - plus of course

[...]

Thanks but I said " Off-peak Single ?

That was the point I was trying to make - within the London zones
there is no such thing as an Off-peak Single. Also, as Roland Perry
states elsewhere the Off-peak Single is a rare fare near London -
indeed I'd say it's a rare fare for journeys wholly within the south
east (i.e. the old Network South East area).

I can confirm that we only have Anytime Singles between Cambridge and
London now.

--
Colin Rosenstiel