On 12 Jan, 10:24, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:

On 12 Jan, 00:27, Mizter T wrote:

On 11 Jan, 16:47, Mr Thant
wrote:

(snip)

I think what it means is that the NR station's ticket barrier isn't
programmed to do PAYG and rejected Abigail's Z1-3 Travelcard. Since
the DLR has its own ticket barrier and exit in the vicinity of the
station, there's no need to go through the NR station to get out from
the DLR. This seems as good a way as any of reminding people PAYG
isn't usable on NR.

That's a very interesting interpretation, one that hadn't crossed my
mind - I simply though it was the result of sloppy programming.

I have to say that *if* this is the case then it actually sounds like
a fairly good way of avoiding problems, particularly of people trying
to get in to the station whilst attempting to use Oyster PAYG for
travelling on the NR trains.

The SET gateline hasn't been reprogrammed, and did return error code
57 (PAYG not accepted) when i tried my PAYG Oyster on it.


Thanks for the report from the field - so Mr Thant's hypothesis
appears to be correct. A slightly strange arrangement, but I think
it's for the best - and of course one can bear in mind that it is just
a relatively temporary arrangement as the NR network should be
accepting Oyster PAYG by the end of the year.


On a slightly related note, the TfL fare finder appears to return no
fares for Richmond - Clapham Junction journeys.
I wonder what would be charged for an actual PAYG journey (via
Willesden Junction or Earls Court and West Brompton.)


The TfL Fare finder also returns no fares for Kew Gardens - CJ and
Gunnersbury - CJ.

I guess this is either a mistake, or a purposeful omission from the
public Fare finder to try and dissuade people from thinking Oyster
PAYG is valid on the SWT.

Actually I've just checked the Fare finder for a Wimbledon - CJ fare
(via District line and West Brompton) and it does return fares for
that journey, so I dare say the missing fares from Richmond/ Kew
Garden/ Gunnersbury is more likely to be in error.

So yeah, I also wonder how a real journey would be charged.
Essentially depends on whether or not the public Fare finder database
reflects the 'real' Oyster database.

On 12 Jan, 11:12, John Ray wrote:

Matthew Dickinson wrote:

On a slightly related note, the TfL fare finder appears to return no
fares for Richmond - Clapham Junction journeys.
I wonder what would be charged for an actual PAYG journey (via
Willesden Junction or Earls Court and West Brompton.)

The fare via Willesden Jct (London Overground) is £3.20 SDS or £6.40
SDR, according to Avantix Traveller. The South West Trains route is cheaper.


Matthew was referring to the Oyster PAYG fares not the paper ticket
fares, and was making reference to the associated TfL Fare finder
which can be found on the web he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/fa...09/farefinder/

I think it was just a purely hypothetical question - I don't think
Matthew was suggesting that, for Richmond to CJ journeys, travelling
via the District line or London Overground was a sensible idea!

The reason why it is interesting is that Oyster PAYG is accepted at
both Richmond and CJ, but only for travel on District Line and LO
services. The issue being that there's nothing to prevent a passenger
erroneously using it - whether through intentional or unintentional
misuse - on SWT between these two stations, even though it is not
valid on this route. Well, of course there are posters advising
passengers of this information, and RPIs on trains and at stations,
but nonetheless people will inevitably do it anyway.

I dare say Matthew was pondering about whether Richmond - CJ fares had
been purposefully omitted from the public TfL Fare finder so as to
dissuade people from using Oyster PAYG for journeys on SWT. There's
not really enough evidence to say one way or the other, it's just
speculation.

On 12 Jan, 08:33, Mwmbwls wrote:
On Jan 12, 8:20*am, Bearded wrote:

For Wharfies travelling in from Woolwich and points East, the good news
is that the interchange at Poplar is cross-platform in both directions.

We had only a couple of minutes to wait.

Excellent ride - none of the hunting experienced elsewhere on the network.

This will make life so much easier for lots of people. Well done DLR.

Ken
--
Writer / editor on London's River

Was it well loaded on its first real working day?

A Woolwich dwelling, Canary Wharf working mate texted me this morning
saying "tipped up at 8:30. found Trams were going only as far as
Blackwall - nothing as far as Poplar for at least the next 4 trains.
getting on the bus to N Greenwich".

I have been bleating on about this extension to him for ages, too. Bah.

In message
Mizter T wrote:


On 12 Jan, 10:24, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:

On 12 Jan, 00:27, Mizter T wrote:

On 11 Jan, 16:47, Mr Thant
wrote:

(snip)

I think what it means is that the NR station's ticket barrier isn't
programmed to do PAYG and rejected Abigail's Z1-3 Travelcard. Since
the DLR has its own ticket barrier and exit in the vicinity of the
station, there's no need to go through the NR station to get out from
the DLR. This seems as good a way as any of reminding people PAYG
isn't usable on NR.

That's a very interesting interpretation, one that hadn't crossed my
mind - I simply though it was the result of sloppy programming.

I have to say that *if* this is the case then it actually sounds like
a fairly good way of avoiding problems, particularly of people trying
to get in to the station whilst attempting to use Oyster PAYG for
travelling on the NR trains.

The SET gateline hasn't been reprogrammed, and did return error code
57 (PAYG not accepted) when i tried my PAYG Oyster on it.


Thanks for the report from the field - so Mr Thant's hypothesis
appears to be correct. A slightly strange arrangement, but I think
it's for the best - and of course one can bear in mind that it is just
a relatively temporary arrangement as the NR network should be
accepting Oyster PAYG by the end of the year.


On a slightly related note, the TfL fare finder appears to return no
fares for Richmond - Clapham Junction journeys.
I wonder what would be charged for an actual PAYG journey (via
Willesden Junction or Earls Court and West Brompton.)


The TfL Fare finder also returns no fares for Kew Gardens - CJ and
Gunnersbury - CJ.

The ticket office at Kew Gardens will sell you a ticket from there to
Waterloo via Richmond[1], so I assume they'll sell you one to CJ by the same
route.

[1] It's marginally quicker, but more expensive than District -
Jubbly/Bakerloo/Northern

--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html

In message
,
Martin Petrov writes

A Woolwich dwelling, Canary Wharf working mate texted me this morning
saying "tipped up at 8:30. found Trams were going only as far as
Blackwall - nothing as far as Poplar for at least the next 4 trains.
getting on the bus to N Greenwich".

Possibly because the official opening was at 9.00 this morning, with
Boris and the press in attendance, so I doubt there was a normal service
pattern around then.
--
Paul Terry

On 12 Jan, 12:29, Martin Petrov wrote:

On 12 Jan, 08:33, Mwmbwls wrote:

On Jan 12, 8:20*am, Bearded wrote:

For Wharfies travelling in from Woolwich and points East, the good news
is that the interchange at Poplar is cross-platform in both directions.

We had only a couple of minutes to wait.

Excellent ride - none of the hunting experienced elsewhere on the network.

This will make life so much easier for lots of people. Well done DLR.

Was it well loaded on its first real working day?

A Woolwich dwelling, Canary Wharf working mate texted me this morning
saying "tipped up at 8:30. found Trams were going only as far as
Blackwall - nothing as far as Poplar for at least the next 4 trains.
getting on the bus to N Greenwich".

I have been bleating on about this extension to him for ages, too. Bah.


Tell him to walk from Blackwall next time - seriously, do. Look at
this map - Blackwall is at the top-right:
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/oldmap.sr...&y=180250&ar=N

Negotiating the Aspen Way roundabout might look scary but you don't
have to - there's a big wide subway underneath it qhich is quite
unlike the claustrophobic subways of old - you can see it in the
middle of the roundabout from this aerial image:
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?FO...tyle=o&l vl=1

Without question I would go to Blackwall and walk in this situation -
it's really not very far at all.

The other really obvious point that has just come to me is that there
may be more trains to Poplar or Canary Wharf from Canning Town - which
would mean one wouldn't actually have to walk from Blackwall after all.

Mizter T wrote

On a slightly related note, the TfL fare finder appears to return
no
fares for Richmond - Clapham Junction journeys.
I wonder what would be charged for an actual PAYG journey (via
Willesden Junction or Earls Court and West Brompton.)


The TfL Fare finder also returns no fares for Kew Gardens - CJ and
Gunnersbury - CJ.

I guess this is either a mistake, or a purposeful omission from the
public Fare finder to try and dissuade people from thinking Oyster
PAYG is valid on the SWT.

Actually I've just checked the Fare finder for a Wimbledon - CJ fare
(via District line and West Brompton) and it does return fares for
that journey, so I dare say the missing fares from Richmond/ Kew
Garden/ Gunnersbury is more likely to be in error.

So yeah, I also wonder how a real journey would be charged.
Essentially depends on whether or not the public Fare finder database
reflects the 'real' Oyster database.

Also, if such a journey was made who would get the money ? and would
SWT get it all next year ?

--
Mike D

On 12 Jan, 14:03, "Michael R N Dolbear" wrote:

Mizter T wrote

On a slightly related note, the TfL fare finder appears to return
no fares for Richmond - Clapham Junction journeys.
I wonder what would be charged for an actual PAYG journey (via
Willesden Junction or Earls Court and West Brompton.)

The TfL Fare finder also returns no fares for Kew Gardens - CJ and
Gunnersbury - CJ.

I guess this is either a mistake, or a purposeful omission from the
public Fare finder to try and dissuade people from thinking Oyster
PAYG is valid on the SWT.

Actually I've just checked the Fare finder for a Wimbledon - CJ fare
(via District line and West Brompton) and it does return fares for
that journey, so I dare say the missing fares from Richmond/ Kew
Garden/ Gunnersbury is more likely to be in error.

So yeah, I also wonder how a real journey would be charged.
Essentially depends on whether or not the public Fare finder database
reflects the 'real' Oyster database.

Also, if such a journey was made who would get the money ? and would
SWT get it all next year ?


You raised a similar point in the "Oysterisation" thread so I've
addressed the broad point there.

Good question about what would happen in this situation. One presumes
that a Richmond or Wimbledon to Clapham Jn journey would have to be
charged according to the higher fare NR scale (when using Oyster PAYG)
- though perhaps a very small portion of the money might go to LU
based on the idea that people do take wacky routes, especially ones
that appear on the Tube Map as opposed to ones that don't (and the
direct SWT line doesn't).

A further question would be how would a Richmond to Wimbledon journey
be charged (and resulting revenue distributed) - I can see that some
people would travel by District line all the way, though going by SWT
and changing at CJ would be a far better route. And changing at Putney
for East Putney would avoid going into zone 2 whatsoever.

On 11 Jan, 17:34, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 07:06:19 -0800 (PST), Mr Thant
wrote:
On 11 Jan, 12:37, Paul Corfield wrote:
There are two entrances from what I can tell from plans and photos.

There's an escalator heading west that takes you to one entrance
building by the town centre. There's another escalator heading east
that takes you to the other entrance building next door* to the NR
station entrance (only a short block west of the first entrance), and
this floor also has a footbridge over the NR line to the far NR
platform. East of the two escalators there's a set of stairs taking
you up to a floor that's level with the nearside NR platform, and in
turn has stairs up to the footbridge and exit level. Finally, there
are lifts at either end of the platform that take you up to the two
different entrance buildings.

Having been there and used both entrances and got them sort of aligned
with (my understanding of) the town centre I can see what they've done.
I didn't do a full exploration of the layout and certainly didn't see
how it connects up with National Rail. That can wait for another time.

There were a fair number of people trying the line out and I was
somewhat surprised at how many people were using London City Airport on
a Sunday. *Other people milling about the town centre were certainly
noticing the fact that the line is now open.

London City Airport closes down - or more specifically doesn't have
any flights - between 12:30pm Saturday and 12:30pm Sunday, so that
might explain an afternoon rush, along with those who 'flymute' (not
my word - used elsewhere here already!) and also those who need to
wake up somewhere else for business on Monday morning.

See under 'Flying Hours':
http://www.lcacc.org/operations/operations.html


For me the most obvious advantage - after a long slog to Canning Town by
bus - is that the DLR gives a good springboard on to a lot of buses in
Woolwich which spread out far and wide. *It's also a pretty decent
interchange to the buses which is helpful.

Good point.


It seems rather extravagant. They seem to have placed a very high
value on building the station a little further west to connect to the
town centre, rather than in the cutting alongside the railway station
(the tunnel portal is even further east) and having the entrance
there.

(* -ish. There's a listed building between them)

Well I take your point but I think it is sensible that it is properly
linked to the town centre and to the railway station. *There'd be no
point building it and having the station stuck across a dual carriageway
road (by the actual Arsenal itself).

It's been a long while since I've been to Woolwich and I have to say
it's in need of a bit of a lift. Hopefully the DLR might make a
contribution by making it easier for people to get there.

Absolutely agree with that.

On 12 Jan, 13:23, Graeme Wall wrote:

In message
* * * * * Mizter T wrote:

On 12 Jan, 10:24, Matthew Dickinson
wrote:

(snip)

On a slightly related note, the TfL fare finder appears to return no
fares for Richmond - Clapham Junction journeys.
I wonder what would be charged for an actual PAYG journey (via
Willesden Junction or Earls Court and West Brompton.)

The TfL Fare finder also returns no fares for Kew Gardens - CJ and
Gunnersbury - CJ.

The ticket office at Kew Gardens will sell you a ticket from there to
Waterloo via Richmond[1], so I assume they'll sell you one to CJ by the same
route.

[1] It's marginally quicker, but more expensive than District -
Jubbly/Bakerloo/Northern



I'm in no doubt that they would - indeed the list of through fare
prices (aka Tube/Train fares in the internal parlance) is he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresa...ares/2892.aspx

The underlying point that I was picking up on was whether a number of
fares have been purposefully excluded from the public TfL Fare finder
so as to dissuade people using Oyster PAYG on routes on which it is
not valid, such as Kew Gardens via Richmond to Clapham Jn (i.e. most
of the way on SWT). I'm not sure if Matthew Dickinson had that in mind
when he mentioned this though!

I actually suspect that their omission from the Fare finder is just a
simple mistake - it would seem to be the most likely explanation.