I've often wondered and was reminded today, why is there a delay in
opening the doors for trains arriving at Victoria?
At other terminating stations the doors are released as soon as the
train has stopped, but at Victoria there seems to be a delay, anyone
know why?
--
Mark Varley
www.MarkVarleyPhoto.co.uk
www.BeautifulBondage.net
www.TwistedPhotography.co.uk
London, England.

On 22 Jan, 18:25, MarkVarley - MVP
wrote:
I've often wondered and was reminded today, why is there a delay in
opening the doors for trains arriving at Victoria?
At other terminating stations the doors are released as soon as the
train has stopped, but at Victoria there seems to be a delay, anyone
know why?


You're talking about the arrival of Electrostars into Victoria
mainline station. I don't know the details, but basically they used
GPS to get a fix on where they are. As a safety measure, they also
have a system that means drivers (or can guards also do this?) are
only able to release (i.e. open) the doors on the correct side of the
train. In the western (aka Brighton aka LBSCR [1]) side of the station
the platforms and the approaches to the platforms are all covered up
because of a number of developments that have been built 'on top' of
them - this all messes up the GPS signal reception from the satellite.

There's some kind of workaround to this - I've a feeling that they may
have created a 'fake' GPS signal for these covered platforms, but I'm
not too sure - basically it's a method of convincing the on-train
computer that it is indeed in Victoria station and the driver should
be allowed to release the doors. This process takes a bit of time, so
meanwhile one stands at the doors pressing the button and wondering if
the driver has gone to sleep or has done a runner and left you all in
there which is annoying because you've only got 15 minutes until
you're supposed to meet someone at Oxford Circus/ 20 minutes until
your train leaves from Kings Cross.

Not an ideal arrangement, but not the end of the world either!


-----
[1] London, Brighton and South Coast Railway

On Jan 22, 6:25*pm, MarkVarley - MVP
wrote:
I've often wondered and was reminded today, why is there a delay in
opening the doors for trains arriving at Victoria?
At other terminating stations the doors are released as soon as the
train has stopped, but at Victoria there seems to be a delay, anyone
know why?
--

I understood it was because the GPS system, which controls the
selective door opening, can't see any of its satellites when it is
under the building built on top of the platforms. The conductor has to
wait for the system to time out allowing it to be overriden. It only
really seems to affect the Southern platforms, the South-Eastern
platforms (1-7) generally seem to have normal opening times.

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...

On 22 Jan, 18:25, MarkVarley - MVP
wrote:
I've often wondered and was reminded today, why is there a delay in
opening the doors for trains arriving at Victoria?
At other terminating stations the doors are released as soon as the
train has stopped, but at Victoria there seems to be a delay, anyone
know why?


You're talking about the arrival of Electrostars into Victoria
mainline station. I don't know the details, but basically they used
GPS to get a fix on where they are. As a safety measure, they also
have a system that means drivers (or can guards also do this?) are
only able to release (i.e. open) the doors on the correct side of the
train. In the western (aka Brighton aka LBSCR [1]) side of the station
the platforms and the approaches to the platforms are all covered up
because of a number of developments that have been built 'on top' of
them - this all messes up the GPS signal reception from the satellite.

Do they really have so little trust in the guards to open the right set of
doors, they have to implement this?

And anyway, it's OK for stations where the platform can always be
determined, but al London, Clapham, E Croydon, Brighton (I could go on), the
actual platform a train is going to arrive at isn't always determinable.
(No, GPS isn't accurate enough to say if its on the up fast/down slow/etc
track.)

It is because one of the platforms at Victoria is shorter than the
others. I think it is platform 7 from memory. It takes the system a
bit longer to open the doors because it has to confirm that it is at
the right platform.

The system also has a problem at smaller two platform stations if one
platform is shorter than the other. There was a case where the london
bound platform could take 12 coaches but the country one only 8. As
the GPS was not sensitive enough to tell which platform the train was
at it would only open 8 coaches in both directions.

On 23 Jan, 09:29, wrote:
It is because one of the platforms at Victoria is shorter than the
others. *I think it is platform 7 from memory. *It takes the system a
bit longer to open the doors because it has to confirm that it is at
the right platform.
by
The system also has a problem at smaller two platform stations if one
platform is shorter than the other. *There was a case where the london
bound platform could take 12 coaches but the country one only 8. *As
the GPS was not sensitive enough to tell which platform the train was
at it would only open 8 coaches in both directions.

Just to clarify a couple of points. On Electrostar the guard does not
release the doors, the driver does it. The Victoria release takes a
while because the train does not receive the GPS signal owing to the
Victoria Place complex. For this reason when we attempt the door
release the train computer asks us where it is in order to know how
many doors to open.

Also note there is no facility to prevent wrong side door releases. t

On Jan 22, 7:07*pm, "Graculus"
wrote:
"Mizter T" wrote in message

...





On 22 Jan, 18:25, MarkVarley - MVP
wrote:
I've often wondered and was reminded today, why is there a delay in
opening the doors for trains arriving at Victoria?
At other terminating stations the doors are released as soon as the
train has stopped, but at Victoria there seems to be a delay, anyone
know why?

You're talking about the arrival of Electrostars into Victoria
mainline station. I don't know the details, but basically they used
GPS to get a fix on where they are. As a safety measure, they also
have a system that means drivers (or can guards also do this?) are
only able to release (i.e. open) the doors on the correct side of the
train. In the western (aka Brighton aka LBSCR [1]) side of the station
the platforms and the approaches to the platforms are all covered up
because of a number of developments that have been built 'on top' of
them - this all messes up the GPS signal reception from the satellite.

Do they really have so little trust in the guards to open the right set of
doors, they have to implement this?

It is a bit daft isn't it? If they don't trust the driver to open the
doors correctly how come they trust him to drive 200 tons of train up
to 100mph?

I suspect its just technology for its own sake, someone came up with a
bullet point list of "cool" features for the train order and some
wally actually signed it off without thinking it through.

B2003

On 23 Jan, 12:10, wrote:
It is a bit daft isn't it? If they don't trust the driver to open the
doors correctly how come they trust him to drive 200 tons of train up
to 100mph?

They don't. AWS exists because they don't trust drivers to spot every
red or yellow signal. TPWS exists because they don't trust drivers to
not ignore AWS, or to approach red signals and junctions at a safe
speed. ATP exists because they don't trust drivers to stay within the
speed limit. Deadman's handles exist because they don't trust drivers
to stay conscious and/or alive. Driver vigilance devices exist because
they don't trust drivers to concentrate on the job, in the
happenstance that they are alive and conscious.

On London Underground, tripcocks exist because they don't trust
drivers to notice red signals. Correct side door enable exists because
they don't trust drivers to open doors on the right side and/or stop
the train roughly next to the platform. Rollback protection exists
because they don't trust drivers to apply the brakes if the train
starts rolling backwards down a hill,

Basically, the only things they do trust the drivers to do is not
override or disable the safety systems. As far as is possible, they
are not otherwise trusted with the safety of the train.

U

On Jan 23, 2:53*pm, Mr Thant
wrote:
Basically, the only things they do trust the drivers to do is not
override or disable the safety systems. As far as is possible, they
are not otherwise trusted with the safety of the train.

The drivers are still driving the train however. All the ATP in the
world won't spot a car thats fallen off a bridge onto the track so the
driver still is required to stay alert. And its down to risk too - if
a train goes across a red light loads of people could be hurt. If the
train isn't quite aligned with the platform and driver opens the doors
someone at the far end of the train thinks "muppet" and walks up to
the next door. Seems to me its a solution looking for a problem.

B2003

"Graculus" wrote in message
...
(No, GPS isn't accurate enough to say if its on the up fast/down slow/etc
track.)
Should be - I get accuracy down to about a metre on a very old hand-held GPS
box. It's certainly good enough to work out the difference at Clapham
Junction because 12-car trains don't get held up when they call on the fast
line platforms, and I've seen it work correctly when a 12-car gets diverted
to the slow platforms. The SDO system just reverts to plan B if it finds
itself somewhere (like the SN platforms at Victoria) where the GPS isn't
good enough.

ISTR reading somewhere that the 377s going to the FCC route are having their
SDO modified to allow for better running between Blackfriars and Kentish
Town.

D A Stocks