Here's one of those 3d diagrams for Liverpool Street/Moorgate :http://
www.crossrail.co.uk/80256B090053AF4C/Files/liverpoolstreet3d/$FILE/liverpool+street+3d_lg.jpg

The grey bits are the old station (and the even paler grey bits,
unhelpfully added, are the streets).

If you look closely though, there are bits of the 'old station(s)'
that make no sense:
-a rectangular bit west of the central line, and west of the disused
curve for the metropolitan line, at liverpool street.
-two very thin tubes (which look too small for lift shafts), just to
the right of that rectangular bit
-a long passage below and slightly south of the main ticket hall at
moorgate, and just north of the metropolitan line (just beyond the
east end of the platforms). This passage has a curve to the south at
the western end
-a long thin passage directly above the northern line, and parallel
with it, south of the platforms (and south of the ticket hall).
-a round/circular room under the steps that lead from the ticket hall
to the east side of moorgate. A long passage passes next to it, with
junctions towards it, so this may be some form of disused lift shaft,
but I thought that the northern line ticket hall had always been on
the west side of moorgate?
-a strange short passage, with some sort of disc around the middle,
below the east end of the long passage by that circular room

Does anyone know the explanations for these?

On 31 Jan, 16:14, lonelytraveller
wrote:
Here's one of those 3d diagrams for Liverpool Street/Moorgate :http://www.crossrail.co.uk/80256B090053AF4C/Files/liverpoolstreet3d/$FILE/li...

The grey bits are the old station (and the even paler grey bits,
unhelpfully added, are the streets).

If you look closely though, there are bits of the 'old station(s)'
that make no sense:
-a rectangular bit west of the central line, and west of the disused
curve for the metropolitan line, at liverpool street.
There used to be a railway station there called 'broad street', but it
got demolished in the 1980s (the broadgate centre is built where it
used to be). The central line used to have a direct exit to broad
street station, and the 'rectangular bit' is the former ticket hall
for that exit; I can't remember exactly how it connected at platform
level, but there are exits at the south end of the platforms (the
westbound ends) that lead into a corridor that headed up in that
direction.

-two very thin tubes (which look too small for lift shafts), just to
the right of that rectangular bit
I'm not sure. I remember the broad street exit having an escalator (at
right angles to all the other escalators at liverpool street), so I
don't think it can have been lifts. Maybe one was for the emergency
stairs?

-a long passage below and slightly south of the main ticket hall at
moorgate, and just north of the metropolitan line (just beyond the
east end of the platforms). This passage has a curve to the south at
the western end
This joined the deeper lines with the metropolitan line, before they
rebuilt it to add the escalators. It used to connect up with the
metropolitan line underpass (that's why there's an underpass as well
as an overpass), but these days of course its hidden behind a bland
door.

-a long thin passage directly above the northern line, and parallel
with it, south of the platforms (and south of the ticket hall).
That used to be a signal box, you can see the ladder contraption thing
for it just as you arrive/leave the platforms by train. I'm not sure
if its used for anything now. Judging by all the drips coming from it
I dont think its been used for anything for years.

-a round/circular room under the steps that lead from the ticket hall
to the east side of moorgate. A long passage passes next to it, with
junctions towards it, so this may be some form of disused lift shaft,
but I thought that the northern line ticket hall had always been on
the west side of moorgate?
Yes its a lift shaft. The northern city line (now Worst Capital
Connect) originally had their own entrance on the east side of
moorgate. Britannic House (the current building on that side) was
built after they put the escalators in, and redesigned the ticket hall
to be underground. There's an airvent in the exit on that side that
feeds into the shaft.

There were passages on either side, as usual, but the passage on the
side nearest the platforms was, if I was told the truth, cut off when
they extended the line south (the extension was abandoned very
quickly, which is why the tunnel doesn't go more than a few metres
further on the platform 10 side than on the platform 9 side). Those
doors on the 'wrong side' of the tracks should therefore give access
onto what remains of the passage.

Unusually, the emergency stairs wrapped round the lift shaft, but
there's hasn't been much left of them since they built Britannic
House. I think you can still get at the remains by using the
precariously thin walkway at the end of platform 10.

-a strange short passage, with some sort of disc around the middle,
below the east end of the long passage by that circular room
That sounds very unusual so are you certain that it was definitely a
disk?

On 3 Feb, 22:05, wrote:
On 31 Jan, 16:14, lonelytravellernospam_lonelytraveller_nos...@hotm ail.co.uk wrote:
Here's one of those 3d diagrams for Liverpool Street/Moorgate :http://www.crossrail.co.uk/80256B090053AF4C/Files/liverpoolstreet3d/$......
I've just spoken to my father about this, so I've now got some more
accurate information, assuming his memory's still reasonably accurate,
and I can interpret his doodles the right way.

There used to be a railway station there called 'broad street', but it
got demolished in the 1980s (the broadgate centre is built where it
used to be). The central line used to have a direct exit to broad
street station, and the 'rectangular bit' is the former ticket hall
for that exit; I can't remember exactly how it connected at platform
level, but there are exits at the south end of the platforms (the
westbound ends) that lead into a corridor that headed up in that
direction.
A passage went straight on from the foot of the escalators, leading
(via a right angle) to the westbound platform. Another went left,
heading (via directly to the eastbound platform. Due to the angle of
the escalator, the landing had to be built above the track level, so
these passages each contained a flight of steps (so no easy straight-
to-platform experience for people going to broad street).

I'm not sure. I remember the broad street exit having an escalator (at
right angles to all the other escalators at liverpool street), so I
don't think it can have been lifts. Maybe one was for the emergency
stairs?
It turns out I was slightly wrong. Broad street had escalators AND
lifts (and stairs). There was a corridor parallel to the escalators,
meeting the passage to the eastbound (before the flight of steps), and
the end of this corridor passed the lift shaft containing two lifts.
Beyond the lift shaft, it turned left, and became the chamber for the
emergency stairs. Unlike most stations, the emergency stairs emerged
in the centre of the ticket hall, right in the way of the top of the
escalators.

Like most underground lifts, there was a parallel passage on the other
side for people heading in the other direction (or, in reality, for
people bone-headedly heading in the same direction and obstructing
people going the right way), but it wasn't really used, except that
during WWII it was converted into a shelter. This passage/shelter
stretches far enough to go over the southwest end of the westbound
platform (so it must be the jutting out bit in the ceiling at that
end), and presumably continued to the eastbound platform, but the
metropolitan line escalators at that end block it off (these
escalators were added fairly recently).

Guessing from the layout, I think the exit must originally have been
intended to be a normal lift-only (+stairs) exit, but they added
escalators at the last moment. The liverpool street exit is the same.
I'm not sure if they ever built the lift shafts for that (which would
have gone directly to the platforms), but they did build the emergency
stairs - once again they emerge right in the middle of the ticket hall
(the northerly one). Obviously these are covered up (apart from a
manhole cover) at the ticket hall level as they'd cause chaos being
located there, but the shaft would be an excellent way to quickly add
MIP lifts.

But I think the shafts for the stairs and for the lift for the broad
street exit are still there, so judging by your crossrail picture I
think they may be planning to reuse one of those as an MIP lift.

-a long passage below and slightly south of the main ticket hall at
moorgate, and just north of the metropolitan line (just beyond the
east end of the platforms). This passage has a curve to the south at
the western end
This joined the deeper lines with the metropolitan line, before they
rebuilt it to add the escalators. It used to connect up with the
metropolitan line underpass (that's why there's an underpass as well
as an overpass), but these days of course its hidden behind a bland
door.
Apparently its not actually the same underpass - the original one was
much further up the metropolitan line platforms, but the whole
metropolitan station (and cripplegate in general) was very heavily
bombed. The new underpass goes straight through the middle of this
interchange passage (so there should be corresponding doors either
side), but I can't think why they bothered re-building the underpass
there at all, when the bridge would do in that location, and
distributing people would be much better further up the platforms.

The tunnel itself lead to the south side lift lobby passage for the
great northern & city line. You can just about see on your diagram
that half way along, near the bendy bit, there was a junction with
some stairs leading to the west end of both lift lobby passages for
the northern line (the east end of the lobbys is the side leading to
the platforms). In your picture these lifts (there were 4, in two
shafts) are the subtle bulge just above the long metropolitan
interconnection passage, and the subtle bulge just below it to the
right.

The northern-line branch of the tunnel, in addition to joining up with
the lifts, also had a turning for a passage that joined up with the
northern line emergency stairs (in your picture, that's the extremely
subtle bulge just below the metropolitan interconnecting passage, even
further to the right from the lifts). Although the stairs are in an
awkward position (south of the lifts, rather than east), so you had to
reach them via a straight set of stairs/bridge from a cross passage
between the lift lobbys, it wasn't so awkward that it needed its own
connection to the met tunnel. Perhaps this was one of those idiotic
"well, that's what it says in the act of parliament, so we'll have to
build it" things, like the aldwych branch - its academic now as this
branch is mainly cut off by the northern line escalators.

By the way, the emergency stairs are not the same ones that lead from
the modern ticket hall to the northern line platforms (with an
intermediate exit for the WAGN platforms). These stairs are cunningly
shaped in a way that hides the original exit - originally, you went up
the straight flight of stairs from the platform, then round a curved
passage to the lift lobby, but the modern stairs branch off just where
the curved passage starts (its behind the ?blue? door at the top of
the straight bit). The modern stairs aren't shaped in a perfect spiral
- the bottom curve is much straighter, so that it doesn't interfere
with the curved passage.

The lobby at the other side of the lifts also had its own curved
passage that lead to the platforms. However, this exited much further
up the platforms, and the platform end of it has been taken over for
the entrance/exit access from/to the modern escalator. I think the
fragment from the lobby going over the tracks might still be there
(the bridge over the tracks was just beyond the end of the platform,
so you wouldn't be able to see it from the platforms anyway)

-a round/circular room under the steps that lead from the ticket hall
to the east side of moorgate.
Yes its a lift shaft. The northern city line (now Worst Capital
Connect) originally had their own entrance on the east side of
moorgate.

There were passages on either side, as usual, but the passage on the
side nearest the platforms was, if I was told the truth, cut off when
they extended the line south (the extension was abandoned very
quickly, which is why the tunnel doesn't go more than a few metres
further on the platform 10 side than on the platform 9 side). Those
doors on the 'wrong side' of the tracks should therefore give access
onto what remains of the passage.
They do, but....
when they started the extension south, they re-built the lift lobby
one floor higher up - its the higher up lobbys you can see on the
diagram, though you can also just about see the connecting passage to
the lower lobby on the south. That's why the round room on the diagram
looks like it goes down a floor lower than the lobby.

They re-jigged the headwall so that there was now a quarter circle
curved passage, with steps, to reach the northern lobby, and the
emergency stairs now connected, via a strafe, to the other platform
(platform 10) via a long passage (platform 10 ends further north). The
direction of the passage from the platform was then continued beyond
the junction with the emergency stairs to meet the southern lift lobby
passage (via a right angle junction) - when the metropolitan line
tunnel was added shortly later, it joined up at this corner. Because
they built the modern escalator landing towards the platform 10 side,
the platform 10 passage obviously no longer exists south of the former
emergency stairs (there's bits of escalator there instead).

They did start building the southern line extension for the platform
10 side too, but for some strange reason started further south, so
there's a non-tunneled "gap" between platform 10 and its southern
extension. Ironically, if they had joined it up/started at the
platform 10 end, the 1975 tube crash wouldn't have been anywhere near
as bad (as it would happen mostly in tight tunnel, keeping the train
on the tracks, and it not stopping at the platforms would have been
spotted by the guard more in time to prevent it getting so bad)

Unusually, the emergency stairs wrapped round the lift shaft, but
there's hasn't been much left of them since they built Britannic
House. I think you can still get at the remains by using the
precariously thin walkway at the end of platform 10.
Not quite accurate. The stairs do wrap round either side of the lift,
but these were always accessed via steps through the headwall at the
end of the platform - they still are (sort-of, see above), but you
can't see the access point because there's a "modern" cabin placed
immediately in front of it on the platform. The precarious walkway
actually leads to the original lobby on the other side of the lifts
from the mid-air door (the distance between these two doorways is
therefore the approximate width of a lift shaft). Presumably it also
leads to the tunnel with a "disc round it", which appears to be
adjacent and on the same level.

On 5 Feb, 19:29, wrote:
I've just spoken to my father about this, so I've now got some more
accurate information, assuming his memory's still reasonably accurate,
and I can interpret his doodles the right way.
Thanks, its very detailed.

Like most underground lifts, there was a parallel passage on the other
side for people heading in the other direction....
except that during WWII it was converted into a shelter.
Did they do that at other stations with long disused passages?

stretches far enough to go over the southwest end of the westbound
platform (so it must be the jutting out bit in the ceiling at that
end)
I've been wondering what that was for ages. Maybe the steps inside the
cupboard up there must lead up there.

The northern-line branch of the tunnel, in addition to joining up with
the lifts, also had a turning for a passage that joined up with the
northern line emergency stairs. ...
Perhaps this was one of those idiotic
"well, that's what it says in the act of parliament, so we'll have to
build it" things, like the aldwych branch - its academic now as this
branch is mainly cut off by the northern line escalators.
Maybe they built it because they were planning to block up the older
route to the stairs?
Your description suggests that the northern line lifts must be about
one floor below the northern city line level, so the old access route
to the emergency stairs should be about the same level as the northern
city line (on account of the bridge to take it across the lift lobby);
so maybe the extension of the northern city line south would have cut
through it, hence the reason for needing a new route to the emergency
stairs.

when they started the extension south, they re-built the lift lobby
one floor higher up
Why were they so short sighted when they built the original lobby?

Not quite accurate. The stairs do wrap round either side of the lift,
but these were always accessed via steps through the headwall at the
end of the platform - they still are (sort-of, see above), but you
can't see the access point because there's a "modern" cabin placed
immediately in front of it on ...
On platform 9? I think I know what you mean, but what's the "cabin"
there for?