TroyTempest wrote:
Zen83237 wrote:

As previously mentioned, depots are further away from their start
point making it more difficult to put out service before any
accidents happen.
The 207 bendy depot at Stockley Park, for example,is about six miles
from its start point at Hayes bypass and a full fifteen from White
City (via the A40).
And the depot is not the most bus friendly location.

Secondly, the culture of "Hello? Claims Direct,a bus slid into your
car sir? Let me provide you with a lawyer" may have influenced
managers decisions to put members of the general public at risk.


Channel 4 news tonight had a bendy driver with an uncontrollable back half
of his bus. Looked a good enough reason to me not to bother with them...

Paul S

Also bear in mind that nearly all the bus garages are in the suburbs.
It's not a question of central London being full of buses that can
stop short.
As previously mentioned, depots are further away from their start point
making it more difficult to put out service before any accidents happen.

Yeah, yeah.

There were two dozen (approx) bendy buses at waterloo, about 400 metres from
the houses of parliament.
They never left the depot despite having clear roads and routes that never
leave zone 1.

Incompetence? Stupidity? Forgotten about? On fire? Embarrassing?
You tell me - because I'll bet One Shiney (non-forged) Pound* that Boris
won't ever tell us.

I'll even bet One Second Shiney Genuine Pound that not one journalist
actually *asks* Boris, because there's not one journo who EVER asks
difficult transport questions anymore - and not one that challenges Boris on
ANYTHING.

If it was Ken, Andrew Gillighan would be all over him like an unmentionable
rash). And the transport journos are so far up Boris' ****, they can almost
see Gillighan's shoes. But not quite.

;o)

Andrew

*In the unlikely event that I lose a Boris Bet (I've never lost one yet!),
first to claim gets the pound (or a euro - you choose).

"Paul Scott" wrote
Channel 4 news tonight had a bendy driver with an uncontrollable back half
of his bus. Looked a good enough reason to me not to bother with them...

But the regular pictures of double deckers being cut up by low bridges never
stopped you boarding them, I'll bet.

Paul Scott wrote:


Channel 4 news tonight had a bendy driver with an uncontrollable back half
of his bus. Looked a good enough reason to me not to bother with them...

Paul S


.... when it's snowing exceptionally intensively and the roads haven't
been gritted/ploughed? Or is this just the usual prejudice that jumps
on any evidence, however reed-thin, bypassing the usual processes of
rational thought?

To hell with it - let's even things up, how much gritting can you get
for £20m a year?

Tom

"Tom Barry" wrote...
Paul Scott wrote:
Channel 4 news tonight had a bendy driver with an uncontrollable back
half of his bus. Looked a good enough reason to me not to bother with
them...
... when it's snowing exceptionally intensively and the roads haven't been
gritted/ploughed? Or is this just the usual prejudice that jumps on any
evidence, however reed-thin, bypassing the usual processes of rational
thought?

CLUE: Bendies manage perfectly well in Poland, EVERY winter - and their
roads are worse than London's. And their buses are significantly older than
our beautifully maintained Citaros.
--
Andrew


If you stand up and be counted,
From time to time you may get yourself knocked down.
But remember this:
A man flattened by an opponent can get up again.
A man flattened by conformity stays down for good.
- Thomas J. Watson Jr.

On 2 Feb, 23:03, "Paul Scott" wrote:

TroyTempest wrote:

Zen83237 wrote:
As previously mentioned, depots are further away from their start
point making it more difficult to put out service before any
accidents happen.
The 207 bendy depot at Stockley Park, for example,is about six miles
from its start point at Hayes bypass and a full fifteen from White
City (via the A40).
And the depot is not the most bus friendly location.

Secondly, the culture of "Hello? Claims Direct,a bus slid into your
car sir? Let me provide you with a lawyer" may have influenced
managers decisions to put members of the general public at risk.

Channel 4 news tonight had a bendy driver with an uncontrollable back half
of his bus. Looked a good enough reason to me not to bother with them...


Nonsense. Perhaps they shouldn't have gone out today, I don't know,
though I would want to know a bit more about this incident and also
how they perform in snowy conditions. It should be borne in mind that
is basically doesn't snow in London, and when it does it hardly ever
snows that much. Also, out continental brethren seem to manage with
bendy buses just fine despite the weather. (Or maybe they'd take them
off the roads?) Regardless, I don't rate that as a solid argument
against them, it sounds more like a half-hearted sop of a safety
concern that the anti-bendy lot would be wont to come up with. Sorry
if that sounds a bit harsh, but there we go.

"Andrew Heenan" wrote in
:

"Paul Scott" wrote
Channel 4 news tonight had a bendy driver with an uncontrollable back
half of his bus. Looked a good enough reason to me not to bother with
them...

But the regular pictures of double deckers being cut up by low bridges
never stopped you boarding them, I'll bet.

False analogy, since a double decker having its top sliced off is
invariably the result of human error but an uncontrollable bendy on bad
roads is the result of climate error, for want of a better phrase.

"TroyTempest" wrote in message
...
Zen83237 wrote:
"MIG" wrote in message

Also bear in mind that nearly all the bus garages are in the suburbs.
It's not a question of central London being full of buses that can
stop short.

We haven't had snow this heavy for 18 years but did buses still run 18
years ago. What is different now to then.
Were bus drivers more skilled then?

Kevin


As previously mentioned, depots are further away from their start point
making it more difficult to put out service before any accidents happen.

The 207 bendy depot at Stockley Park, for example,is about six miles from
its start point at Hayes bypass and a full fifteen from White City (via
the A40).
And the depot is not the most bus friendly location.

Secondly, the culture of "Hello? Claims Direct,a bus slid into your car
sir? Let me provide you with a lawyer" may have influenced managers
decisions to put members of the general public at risk.

Bob

In see, so the bus companies don't get insurance then.

Kevin

"James Farrar" wrote in message
. 1.4...
"Andrew Heenan" wrote in
:

"Paul Scott" wrote
Channel 4 news tonight had a bendy driver with an uncontrollable back
half of his bus. Looked a good enough reason to me not to bother with
them...

But the regular pictures of double deckers being cut up by low bridges
never stopped you boarding them, I'll bet.

False analogy, since a double decker having its top sliced off is
invariably the result of human error but an uncontrollable bendy on bad
roads is the result of climate error, for want of a better phrase.

I don't know enough about bendy buses but there are drivers who cannot tow
caravans and those who can. I suspect that this is human error (although
incompetence might be a better word), particularly as bendy buses operate in
other countries with similar conditions.

There are many differences between bus operations in the 60s and 70s
and today. Here are a few:

VEHICLE & PAX
In the days of the "traditional: double-decker, eg Routemaster,
conductors would call 'seats on top" and persuade passengers to go up
rather than stand in the lower saloon.

Standing capacity was limited, with none of what the old regulations
used to call "perambulators or other wheeled conveyance" - in other
words, baby "buggies"

And, dare I say, passengers were "better behaved" with a sense of
shared responsibility and common purpose. If you try to interpret that
as some sort of right-wing racist rant, please see [1] below

ROADS, ROUTES & TRAFFIC

The roads are MUCH busier, with many more vehicles of all kinds -
including buses.

Here in SE London, the routes for both my local buses [244 and 380]
operate predominantly in residential roads.

The 380 in particular covers what must be one of the most challenging
routes in London on the section from Woolwich Dockyard to Blackheath -
steep hills, tight corners, lots of parked cars on both sides of the
road, and often very tight clearances, particularly where vans and SUVs
are parked.

When they do emerge on to main roads, for example between Plumstead and
Woolwich, these roads are highly congested in the rush hour with both
trucks heading to/from the Blackwall tunnel, local traffic and
commuters, more than a few of whom display poor lane discipline and a
lack of what's known as reasonable consideration for other road users.

Operating a route like that in conditions of poor adhesion and poor
visibility as we saw in yesterday's rush hour, would be irresponsible,
to put it mildly. It would put the bus, its passengers and other
vehicles / road users including pedestrians at risk.

SO: not lawyer-itis, not elfnsafety, and for goodness sake, not lazy
bus drivers. Just common sense.

Of course, there's an entirely separate issue about civil
contingencies, emergency planning, preparedness and the appropriate
levels of investment required.

But there London is not alone. Just a few days ago there was
astonishment chez Obama that Malia and Sasha's schools were closed
because there was some snow in and around DC.

"Back home in Chicago the schools never closed," an apparently bemused
President said [although we suspect that was a gentle prod at the
authorities in the District and there congressional paymasters].

The reason is simple: Chicago gets LOTs of snow every year. If you live
there or anywhere along the Great Lakes and Northern Midwest every
community has to plan for - and fund - its snowtime operations, because
between December and February or March heavy snow is as inevitable as
night and day. But when I worked in DC as a journalist I twice found
the government of the US effectively closed for business. Even the
Pentagon car park had spaces on one particularly bout of snow.

I made a joke of it in a feature article : "Don't tell the Kremlin.
They don't need all those missiles. All they need to do is watch the
weather forecast, and Washington DC could be theirs in a day. As long
as they brought their fur hats!"

But I wonder how Londoners would react if next year's council tax bill
had an extra line "weather precept - £50" or whatever?

Food for thought?

Ken

[1] I have mobility problems, requiring the use of a stick, and with
limited articulation of the knee can only fit into one or two seats.
Which group of pax most often allow me to board first and/or offer me
seats: black women aged mid-20s to 40s, particularly those with
children, who are often told "let the gentleman sit there - he needs
that seat more than you do" - and then provide interesting and engaging
travel companions.
Which least? White men, particularly under-40s.





On 2009-02-02 05:05:40 +0000, Epicentre said:

Matthew Dickinson wrote in
:

All TfL bus services have been suspended due to the snow.

I can't remember this happening in the 70s and 80s when we had the
same levels of snowfall, so I wonder what has changed...

I'm fairly certain it happened in 1979 when I had to walk back from Camden
Town to Stoke Newington one evening


--
Writer / editor on London's River