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East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
On Feb 13, 4:04*pm, Mr Thant
wrote: On 13 Feb, 15:41, "Paul Scott" wrote: Another point that isn't clear, is what happens when the extra 4 tph from Clapham Junction via the SLL, and the extra 2 tph peak only trains to/from Crystal Palace enter the mix. *AFAICT that could mean up to 14 tph extended to H&I, as there only ever seems to be New Cross - Dalston Junction terminators mentioned... It's been stated that the West Croydons will terminate at Dalston Junction with New Crosses and Crystal Palaces running through. I don't know how the peak extras or the phase 2 trains fit into this. U Please forgive me for asking a couple of dumb questions, but I can easily see that I do not know this subject matter nearly as well as the rest of you: 1) Has anybody heard anything on a North Battersea station for the ELLX? If so, where would be the proposed location? At the end of Culvert Road where it deadends into the train tracks (actually, there is then an automobile tunnel under the first set of tracks, and then a foot path over the second set of tracks. Is that anybody has proposed it? 2) At Clapham Junction, is the platform entirely already there? Or would there have to be some construction work? 3) I've been reading about this proposed "once-weekly" train from Ealing Broadway to Wandsworth - the first question that comes to my untrained mind is, "What in the world good is a once-weekly train service???" 4) And I guess from Mr Thant's post, that nobody knows of the Phase 2 trains from Clapham Junction will deadend at Surrey Quays or keep on going - surely they have this all figured out by now??? (years ago???) Thanks in advance for any answers/comments. Glad I found this forum. |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
On 16 Feb, 16:42, wrote: On Feb 13, 4:04*pm, Mr Thant wrote: On 13 Feb, 15:41, "Paul Scott" wrote: Another point that isn't clear, is what happens when the extra 4 tph from Clapham Junction via the SLL, and the extra 2 tph peak only trains to/from Crystal Palace enter the mix. *AFAICT that could mean up to 14 tph extended to H&I, as there only ever seems to be New Cross - Dalston Junction terminators mentioned... It's been stated that the West Croydons will terminate at Dalston Junction with New Crosses and Crystal Palaces running through. I don't know how the peak extras or the phase 2 trains fit into this. U Please forgive me for asking a couple of dumb questions, but I can easily see that I do not know this subject matter nearly as well as the rest of you: 1) *Has anybody heard anything on a North Battersea station for the ELLX? *If so, where would be the proposed location? *At the end of Culvert Road where it deadends into the train tracks (actually, there is then an automobile tunnel under the first set of tracks, and then a foot path over the second set of tracks. *Is that anybody has proposed it? A North Battersea/ Battersea High Street station is not seriously on the agenda whatsoever. One did exist between 1863 - 1940, see: http://www.abandonedstations.org.uk/...ndon_Line.html 2) *At Clapham Junction, is the platform entirely already there? *Or would there have to be some construction work? Platform 1 has to be reinstated - this will require work to the deck it sits on. Platform 1 is the other side of the island platform from platform 2 (obvious I suppose!), which is the platform currently used by the LO/ WLL trains today. There were some rumours that cost cutting meant they were going to try and both the whole ELLX and WLL services from a single platform (p2) but this would be insane, asking for trouble and essentially unworkable - the scheme needs p1 to be reinstated. 3) *I've been reading about this proposed "once-weekly" train from Ealing Broadway to Wandsworth - the first question that comes to my untrained mind is, "What in the world good is a once-weekly train service???" A long story! Basically it would exist to fulfil legal obligations, nothing more, just like the rail replacement bus supposedly currently does (though it's arguably legally dubious). 4) *And I guess from Mr Thant's post, that nobody knows of the Phase 2 trains from Clapham Junction will deadend at Surrey Quays or keep on going - surely they have this all figured out by now??? (years ago???) No - the ELLX trains from Clapham Jn would continue at least as far as Dalston Junction, possibly on to Highbury & Islington. No trains would terminate at Surrey Quays. |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
On Feb 16, 6:33*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 16 Feb, 16:42, wrote: On Feb 13, 4:04*pm, Mr Thant wrote: On 13 Feb, 15:41, "Paul Scott" wrote: Another point that isn't clear, is what happens when the extra 4 tph from Clapham Junction via the SLL, and the extra 2 tph peak only trains to/from Crystal Palace enter the mix. *AFAICT that could mean up to 14 tph extended to H&I, as there only ever seems to be New Cross - Dalston Junction terminators mentioned... It's been stated that the West Croydons will terminate at Dalston Junction with New Crosses and Crystal Palaces running through. I don't know how the peak extras or the phase 2 trains fit into this. U Please forgive me for asking a couple of dumb questions, but I can easily see that I do not know this subject matter nearly as well as the rest of you: 1) *Has anybody heard anything on a North Battersea station for the ELLX? *If so, where would be the proposed location? *At the end of Culvert Road where it deadends into the train tracks (actually, there is then an automobile tunnel under the first set of tracks, and then a foot path over the second set of tracks. *Is that anybody has proposed it? A North Battersea/ Battersea High Street station is not seriously on the agenda whatsoever. One did exist between 1863 - 1940, see:http://www.abandonedstations.org.uk/...ndon_Line.html 2) *At Clapham Junction, is the platform entirely already there? *Or would there have to be some construction work? Platform 1 has to be reinstated - this will require work to the deck it sits on. Platform 1 is the other side of the island platform from platform 2 (obvious I suppose!), which is the platform currently used by the LO/ WLL trains today. There were some rumours that cost cutting meant they were going to try and both the whole ELLX and WLL services from a single platform (p2) but this would be insane, asking for trouble and essentially unworkable - the scheme needs p1 to be reinstated. 3) *I've been reading about this proposed "once-weekly" train from Ealing Broadway to Wandsworth - the first question that comes to my untrained mind is, "What in the world good is a once-weekly train service???" A long story! Basically it would exist to fulfil legal obligations, nothing more, just like the rail replacement bus supposedly currently does (though it's arguably legally dubious). 4) *And I guess from Mr Thant's post, that nobody knows of the Phase 2 trains from Clapham Junction will deadend at Surrey Quays or keep on going - surely they have this all figured out by now??? (years ago???) No - the ELLX trains from Clapham Jn would continue at least as far as Dalston Junction, possibly on to Highbury & Islington. No trains would terminate at Surrey Quays. Thanks for that. I just have two more short questions if you don't mind: (1) No, the "North Battersea" station that I am referring to (or the "supposedly proposed North Battersea station") would be located he http://www.multimap.com/maps/?qs=Culvert+Road%2C+London&countryCode=GB#map=51.4 7047,-0.15918|17|4&bd=useful_information&loc=GB:51.47135 :-0.15843:17|Culvert%20Road,%20London|Culvert%20Road ,%20London,%20England,%20SW11%205 Do you see where Culvert Road goes under/over the tracks and then meets up with Eversleigh Road (actually, it doesn't actually meet up - the final part is a footbridge over the last set of tracks). I know a guy down the street from me who says his girlfriend works at some architect's office where they have drawn up some plans (might just be some basic drawings - I don't know) for just such a station/stop/ platform (i.e., I'm not talking about the old Battersea High Street station. This station is already on the selected route/track and just would require extra money (who knows where that would come from). Have you heard anything about this??? I'm sure it's a pipedream until somebody comes up with the money, and in these tight times, it ain't gonna happen.lll (2) With regards to the ELLX trains going from Clapham Junction and continuing on as far as Dalston Junction - that sounds great - it would finally make the Clapham Junction area excellent for commuting to the City (Shoredtich station, which is walkable to the City). But my question concerns the "Liverpool Street Station" spur that I see on the map on Wikipedia. And it has this pictu http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sh...verpool_St.jpg Would a commuter from Clapham Junction be able to go direct to Liverpool Street station? Or would the commuter have to switch to that spur that I see in that picture? Or would the commuter have to walk/take the bus. I'm trying to assess the accessability for commuting to the City. Commuting to Canary Wharf looks excellent (streets ahead of the current mess of grabbing a packed train to Waterloo, then walking a mile to get to the Jubilee Line and then get on another packed train which takes ages to get to Canary Wharf. Thanks in advance. |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
wrote:
Thanks for that. I just have two more short questions if you don't mind: (2) With regards to the ELLX trains going from Clapham Junction and continuing on as far as Dalston Junction - that sounds great - it would finally make the Clapham Junction area excellent for commuting to the City (Shoredtich station, which is walkable to the City). But my question concerns the "Liverpool Street Station" spur that I see on the map on Wikipedia. And it has this pictu http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sh...verpool_St.jpg Would a commuter from Clapham Junction be able to go direct to Liverpool Street station? Or would the commuter have to switch to that spur that I see in that picture? That picture is well out of date, [no doubt someone will shortly tell us exactly when the track was lifted connecting the LU ELL to Liverpool St - 1970s?], the new build Overground ELL rises up to the east of the closed Shoreditch station (pictured) and crosses the Liverpool Street lines on a new high level approach, over the infamous GE19 bridge that collapsed last year while being positioned. Paul |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
Am Mon, 16 Feb 2009 16:42:37 UTC, schrieb
auf uk.railway : 3) I've been reading about this proposed "once-weekly" train from Ealing Broadway to Wandsworth - the first question that comes to my untrained mind is, "What in the world good is a once-weekly train service???" Going to church or Sunday school? Cheers, L.W. -- ----------------------------------------------------- |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
In article
, wrote: (2) With regards to the ELLX trains going from Clapham Junction and continuing on as far as Dalston Junction - that sounds great - it would finally make the Clapham Junction area excellent for commuting to the City (Shoredtich station, which is walkable to the City). But my question concerns the "Liverpool Street Station" spur that I see on the map on Wikipedia. And it has this pictu http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sh...verpool_St.jpg Would a commuter from Clapham Junction be able to go direct to Liverpool Street station? Or would the commuter have to switch to that spur that I see in that picture? That spur was taken out many years ago and is not going to be replaced. -- David Wild using RISC OS on broadband www.davidhwild.me.uk |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
If Clapham Junction to Canary Wharf really is going to be faster than
the via Waterloo route, I think it'll do the line more bad than good because it will be absolutely packed from opening. |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
"Lüko Willms" wrote in message
Am Mon, 16 Feb 2009 16:42:37 UTC, schrieb auf uk.railway : 3) I've been reading about this proposed "once-weekly" train from Ealing Broadway to Wandsworth - the first question that comes to my untrained mind is, "What in the world good is a once-weekly train service???" Going to church or Sunday school? On Tuesdays? |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
On Feb 16, 8:47*pm, sweek wrote:
If Clapham Junction to Canary Wharf really is going to be faster than the via Waterloo route, I think it'll do the line more bad than good because it will be absolutely packed from opening. Well, if it becomes packed it might just justify longer trains then :) |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
Jamie Thompson wrote:
On Feb 16, 8:47 pm, sweek wrote: If Clapham Junction to Canary Wharf really is going to be faster than the via Waterloo route, I think it'll do the line more bad than good because it will be absolutely packed from opening. Well, if it becomes packed it might just justify longer trains then :) Difficult to have longer trains without a total rebuild of Surrey Quays, Wapping, and Rotherhithe at least. Which would be on the far too difficult list unless I'm mistaken. SDO would not be practical in the core part of the route, so it has been proposed in the past that the deep stations would close rather than be lengthened. Paul |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
Recliner wrote:
"Lüko Willms" wrote in message Am Mon, 16 Feb 2009 16:42:37 UTC, schrieb auf uk.railway : 3) I've been reading about this proposed "once-weekly" train from Ealing Broadway to Wandsworth - the first question that comes to my untrained mind is, "What in the world good is a once-weekly train service???" Going to church or Sunday school? On Tuesdays? Well, wouldn't you burn in Hell [1] if you travelled by train on the /Sunday/? [1] No, not the one in Norway. -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
On Feb 16, 8:47*pm, sweek wrote:
If Clapham Junction to Canary Wharf really is going to be faster than the via Waterloo route, I think it'll do the line more bad than good because it will be absolutely packed from opening. Sweek, Surely the ELLX from Clapham Junction to Canada Water will be faster than going into Waterloo and then changing to the Jubilee line - I mean, the trains all slow down in rush hour in the morning coming into Waterloo because they have to find an empty platform. And then you've got that quarter-mile hike to the Jubilee line amongst great masses of humanity, and then you're on an Underground line which runs slower than a BR train. But even if it were the same speed, people will still opt for the ELLX because of the sweat factor, i.e. if you are on the ELLX then you will be on an air-conditioned train car, and you won't have to get sweated up in the summer by doing the hike to the Jubilee line. I agree with you - the ELLX will be jam-packed from Day One. And that doesn't even consider the fact that if you are travelling from Clapham Junction to Liverpool Street station that the ELLX would be a HUGE advantage of the current method of getting there (i.e. slow train into Waterloo, hike to Waterloo to City line, wait in line, sweat yourself out while you take the tube to Bank, then you've got to get to Liverpool Street station on the Central line - makes more sense to just take the ELLX to Shoreditch - while sitting down and in an air-conditioned car all the way. I tell you, it will be jam- packed from Day One. Given that there will only be 4tph, I figure there won't be any room to get on the ELLX by the first stop it makes (Queenstown Road) - after all, nobody is going to get OFF at Queenstown Road. It will be mayhem. And bankers and yuppies will finally consider the Clapham Junction area to be commutable to the City, so more of those people (like me) will live in the area and that will make it even worse. I plan to continue bicycling to Canary Wharf. |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
More to the point, I bet you dollars to donuts that - once it is up
and running - that if you did a cost-benefit analysis for having a station/stop at Brixton, it wouldn't be justified. Why? Because the line will basically be unusable to residents of Brixton during the morning rush hour - after all, very few people are going to be getting OFF at Brixton, so there won't be any space for people to get ON. I figure a lot of the stops are going to be unusable. If figure the ELLX Phase 2 will basically be a great present for City and Canary Wharf workers who live around Clapham Junction. Largely unusable for everyone else (other times, yes, but during morning rush hour, no - will be 90% used by City workers that get on at Clapham Junction). The biggest benefit (I think) will be the lessening of traffic at Waterloo, on the Waterloo & City line, and on the Jubilee line (until you get to Canada Water). |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
|
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
Yes, I stand corrrected - I should have said "Wandsworth Road" and not
"Queenstown Road" (I don't know these stops very well because I don't use any trains from Clapham Junction to work at the moment) - I WILL try it out when it first opens in 2012. If I can get a seat each morning, I will ditch my bicycle and go from Clapham Junction to Canada Water and then to Canary Wharf. Sorry for the mistake. |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
On Feb 16, 9:49*pm, wrote:
On Feb 16, 8:47*pm, sweek wrote: If Clapham Junction to Canary Wharf really is going to be faster than the via Waterloo route, I think it'll do the line more bad than good because it will be absolutely packed from opening. Sweek, makes more sense to just take the ELLX to Shoreditch - while sitting down and in an air-conditioned car all the way. Sitting? Have you seen the interior layout? http://www.railwayherald.co.uk/issue...148.pdf#page=5 |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
On Feb 16, 11:13*pm, EE507 wrote:
On Feb 16, 9:49*pm, wrote: On Feb 16, 8:47*pm, sweek wrote: If Clapham Junction to Canary Wharf really is going to be faster than the via Waterloo route, I think it'll do the line more bad than good because it will be absolutely packed from opening. Sweek, makes more sense to just take the ELLX to Shoreditch - while sitting down and in an air-conditioned car all the way. Sitting? Have you seen the interior layout? http://www.railwayherald.co.uk/issue...148.pdf#page=5 Man, that's a stinker. Obviously, what is going to happen, is, just after the last train leaves, people are going to begin gathering at EXACTLY the right places on the Clapham Junction platform where they KNOW the door opens, in order to be one of the first ones in to grab a seat, thus, in order to get a seat the whole way from Clapham to Shoreditch/Canada Water, one will have to spend 15 minutes standing anyway (either in the heat, or the freezing cold) - and to get the seat, one would have to add almost 15 minutes to one's journey (to make sure you get there in time for when the prior train leaves. What a stinker! My guess is, the planners knew from the get-go that 4tph just wouldn't cut it - that that's basically a token service, and that it is going to be jam-packed from Day One, starting at the first station (Clapham Junction), so they took out as many seats as possible in order to pack as many people in like sardines. Looks like I'm going to stick with bicycling to Canary Wharf - at lesat that way I get a seat to sit on the whole way. |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
wrote My guess is, the planners knew from the get-go that 4tph just wouldn't cut it - that that's basically a token service, and that it is going to be jam-packed from Day One, starting at the first station (Clapham Junction), so they took out as many seats as possible in order to pack as many people in like sardines. Looks like I'm going to stick with bicycling to Canary Wharf - at lesat that way I get a seat to sit on the whole way. The existing SLL serevice (Victoria - London Bridge) is half-hourly with 2-coach trains, and even in the peaks most passengers get a seat. I am sure that the ELLX phase 2b service will be well used, but I wouldn't expect it to be jam-packed. Off-peak everyone who wants one will get a seat, with plenty of space for bikes and buggies, while in the peaks passengers who have to stand will, I would expect, have a reasonable space. It won't be anything like the quickest route from Clapham Junction to Canary Wharf (via Canada Water) or the City (via Whitechapel or walk from Shoreditch High Street) - going via Wazterloo will be much quicker - though the ELLX route will avoid a Zone 1 fare. Peter |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
"sweek" wrote ...
If Clapham Junction to Canary Wharf really is going to be faster than the via Waterloo route, I think it'll do the line more bad than good because it will be absolutely packed from opening. It'll almost certainly be quicker, and that's just one of the 'untapped' sources of travel that the overground will reveal. It'll be worth saving details of the proposed service pattern, and comparing that with what happens within a year or two of opening. I suspect that there will be increased sercies on sevral sections, and the 'old' East London Line will be much, much busier that it used to be. But even the proposed service levels are much higher than the previous levels, so they may cope! -- Andrew "She plays the tuba. It is the only instrument capable of imitating a distress call." |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
"Recliner" wrote :
3) I've been reading about this proposed "once-weekly" train from Ealing Broadway to Wandsworth - the first question that comes to my untrained mind is, "What in the world good is a once-weekly train service???" Going to church or Sunday school? On Tuesdays? Sunday's Sunday schools is a tad overbooked! |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
wrote:
On Feb 16, 11:13 pm, EE507 wrote: Sitting? Have you seen the interior layout? http://www.railwayherald.co.uk/issue...148.pdf#page=5 Man, that's a stinker. Obviously, what is going to happen, is, just after the last train leaves, people are going to begin gathering at EXACTLY the right places on the Clapham Junction platform where they KNOW the door opens... I suspect the layout choice was based on the perceived success of recent LU tube stock, and the apparent belief in TfL that if the Overground could be 'improved to meet the standards of LU services' everyone would flock to it. The same reasoning results in it being on the tube map. So the implication is that passengers will be happy with tube style internal conditions, with a vehicle capacity of 166 (with 30 odd seats) declared. Paul |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
On Feb 17, 9:48*am, "Peter Masson" wrote:
wrote My guess is, the planners knew from the get-go that 4tph just wouldn't cut it - that that's basically a token service, and that it is going to be jam-packed from Day One, starting at the first station (Clapham Junction), so they took out as many seats as possible in order to pack as many people in like sardines. *Looks like I'm going to stick with bicycling to Canary Wharf - at lesat that way I get a seat to sit on the whole way. The existing SLL serevice (Victoria - London Bridge) is half-hourly with 2-coach trains, and even in the peaks most passengers get a seat. I am sure that the ELLX phase 2b service will be well used, but I wouldn't expect it to be jam-packed. Off-peak everyone who wants one will get a seat, with plenty of space for bikes and buggies, while in the peaks passengers who have to stand will, I would expect, have a reasonable space. It won't be anything like the quickest route from Clapham Junction to Canary Wharf (via Canada Water) or the City (via Whitechapel or walk from Shoreditch High Street) - going via Wazterloo will be much quicker - though the ELLX route will avoid a Zone 1 fare. Peter Peter, I wouldn't even begin to compare the current Victoria - London Bridge service to the ELLX phase 2. And the Victoria - London Bridge Service was almost NEVER used by commuters going to Canary Wharf - I should know, because I live within walking distance of Battersea Bridge station and so I checked it out a couple of times to get to Canary Wharf. This was my experience: Lovely ride from Battersea Bridge to London Bridge - always got a seat - passenger cars fairly empty most of the way (this alone told me that it wasn't being used by City/Canary Wharf commuters - if not, where were they???). But then I got to London Bridge . . . . . . . a HUGE hike to the Jubilee line. Packed to the gills. Sometimes couldn't get one first train. Stuffy standing-up ride for two stops to get to Canada Water (where the ELLX will meet), and then the final leg to Canary Wharf. I said, "Never again" and took to my bicycle. Oh, and because it was a half-hourly service, if you missed the train . . . . . well, you had to wait a half hour for the next one (made more sense at that point to take the next train to Victoria and then hop on a District/Circle line to Westminster and then once again get on that jam-packed Jubilee line. Peter, I can assure you, no banker used that Victoria - London Bridge half-hourly service to get to the City/Canary Wharf. As for the fastest route being to go direct into Waterloo . . . . . I can see that being true for somebody who is already on a Waterloo- bound train (say, he is travelling in from Esher in Surrey), then, sure, it doesn't make sense for him to get off his Waterloo-bound train and wait for another train (the ELLX) - that makes no sense. But for somebody who lives around Clapham Junction, it makes more sense to arrive in time to board the new ELLX and go direct to the City/Canada Water. Also depends on where you work in the City. If you work at the huge Broadgate complex, or anywhere along Bishopsgate, the ELLX will make the most sense. Obviously, if you work near the Bank entrance, then the Waterloo & City line might make more sense. But most of the big banks are centered around Broadgate/Bishopsgate, and the whole Waterloo route is a nightmare (trains slow down coming into Waterloo, then you disembark in a huge crowd and have to stand in a huge queue for the Waterloo & City line and it's never pleasant being packed together like sardines like that, and then there is another crush of people at the Bank end of things. I shudder whenever I think about it - I did enough times to chuck it in and get on my bicycle. Again, I'm just speaking for someone who lives near Clapham Junction - obviously for someone living in Esher or Richmond, bicycling in is not an option. I still think the ELLX phase 2 will be packed full starting at Clapham Junction - the appeal of being able to just take one train (no exhanges to other trains) - and an air- conditioned train - all the way to either the City (Shoreditch), or Canada Water (just 1 stop from Canary Wharf) has enormous appeal. I think the ELLX is a wonderful gift to those of us who live near Clapham Junction. |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
wrote I still think the ELLX phase 2 will be packed full starting at Clapham Junction - the appeal of being able to just take one train (no exhanges to other trains) - and an air- conditioned train - all the way to either the City (Shoreditch), or Canada Water (just 1 stop from Canary Wharf) has enormous appeal. I think the ELLX is a wonderful gift to those of us who live near Clapham Junction. I'm sure it will be popular, though I still think that, except perhaps for two or three peak trains, it won't be packed to the point of discomfort. Though I've just done some calculations - I think you're right that it will be as quick for a journey to Canary Wharf, starting at Clapham Junction, as going via Waterloo, and almost as quick to the City (assuming a final destination equidistant from Bank and Shoreditch High Street, the last bit being done on foot). Peter |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
On Feb 17, 12:27*pm, "Peter Masson" wrote:
wrote I still think the ELLX phase 2 will be packed full starting at Clapham Junction - the appeal of being able to just take one train (no exhanges to other trains) - and an air- conditioned train - all the way to either the City (Shoreditch), or Canada Water (just 1 stop from Canary Wharf) has enormous appeal. *I think the ELLX is a wonderful gift to those of us who live near Clapham Junction. I'm sure it will be popular, though I still think that, except perhaps for two or three peak trains, it won't be packed to the point of discomfort. Though I've just done some calculations - I think you're right that it will be as quick for a journey to Canary Wharf, starting at Clapham Junction, as going via Waterloo, and almost as quick to the City (assuming a final destination equidistant from Bank and Shoreditch High Street, the last bit being done on foot). Peter Peter, when looked at that way, I would say that commuters would pick the ELLX over Waterloo hands-down every time - why? - because of 2 reasons: (1) the commuter would never choose to make the unpleasant hike at Waterloo - just makes you get hot and sweaty, and (2) once you are on the Waterloo & City line, you are no longer on an air- conditioned train so why get off the air-conditioned ELLX??? Also, that unpleasant hike at Waterloo - that is also done in an unair- conditioned environment. Also, if one is working in the City, then one could easily take one of the many buses at Shoreditch heading towards Broadgate/Bishopsgate - getting buses at Bank is a pain in the rear (not enough of them - streets are too narrow) and seems to take time. Just my thoughts as a commuter. |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
Hate to keep on posting, but the more that I think about it, I think
you are partially correct - the City worker that works around Bank and west of there will choose your Waterloo/Bank route. But any City worker that works anywhere along the buildings along Bishopsgate (and that's where all the tall/large buildings are, think the Broadgate complex, that new Heron Tower monstrosity (due to be the tallest building in London, already under construction), the "Bishopsgate Tower" now under construction, Tower 42, etc - they are all over by Bishopsgate - or even further east (think the Gherkin Building (the Pineapple building), the Commercial Union building, Lloyds of London, etc) - if you don't want to hike, then a bus down Bishopsgate sounds appealing. |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
In article
, () wrote: I live within walking distance of Battersea Bridge station Where?! -- Colin Rosenstiel |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
On Feb 17, 5:49*pm, wrote:
In article , () wrote: I live within walking distance of Battersea Bridge station Where?! -- Colin Rosenstiel I just had a nice chat with Colin, and I now realise that I should have been saying "Battersea Park station" and not "Battersea BRIDGE station". |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
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East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
"Mizter T" wrote in message ... On 12 Feb, 16:15, "Batman55" wrote: "Mizter T" wrote: http://www.london.gov.uk/view_press_...eleaseid=20938 Snip Funny, whilst on a trip today from Bromley via Clapham Jn, Willesden, Gospel Oak and Barking (yes I am!) and back to Bromley, I wondered why they don't switch the SL service from London Bridge at Wandsworth Road to Olympia (or some sensible point along the WLL)? Solves DH problem and gives another way of avoiding central London. Er, that wouldn't actually solve anything I'm afraid to say - the SLL service is being evicted from London Bridge and is essentially being replaced by the ELLX to Clapham Jn plus by a possible new Victoria - Peckham Rye - Bellingham service calling at all stations (except Battersea Park). This problem we keep hearing about with capacity at London Bridge, yet there is at least a 2 platform space on the SW side of the station , now occupied by cars. Not 12 cars maybe, but why cannot this be restored? MaxB |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
Commuters may also favour one train rather than two, even when the change is
fairly easy. -- Andrew If you stand up and be counted, From time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. - Thomas J. Watson Jr. |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
On 12 Feb, 19:13, Mizter T wrote:
On 12 Feb, 18:43, "Andrew Heenan" wrote: "Mizter T" wrote ... Anyway I didn't really mean to focus so much on the issues surrounding the oncoming ELLX link to Clapham Jn - I think it's great that it's happening, it completes the picture of an orbital route around London - but I don't think it's great because it'll look all neat and tidy on a map, I think it's great because it'll be genuinely useful. I agree and all credit to Boris for bringing Ken's dream to reality. And I'm not just being snarky; Ken saw the potential of the North London Line in his GLC days, and has carried on recognizing that underfunded inner London routes can be developed for Londoners, and fighting for funding. Boris has done well not to cut this like he has cut all the other projects - but he needs to prove himself by focussing on the next lines to be sequestered. As Ken would have done. Indeed, as Ken announced he would do. I absolutely agree about Ken and indeed I've made much the same point in the past - Livingstone has long had a passionate involvement in London's transport, and he brought this heritage to the table on becoming Mayor which led on to projects such as the ELLX and the London Overground takeover. In other words this was his doing, no doubt! TfL never got hold of Southern's Metro routes but we can at least be thankful that their fingerprints are all over the franchise requirements (more staffed and improved stations, more services etc) thanks to lobbying by TfL under the old Mayor. Afraid I can't really see Boris keenly pursuing the strategy of transferring custodianship of London rail routes over to TfL. I suppose it's possible that some things could change when the planets next align themselves, i.e. when the Mayor and the government are of the same hue (in 2010), though nothing in particular appears to be on the agenda in that regard.- I wonder how many other lines would be suitable for "London Overground" branding anyway? LTS - No real distinct services Great Eastern - will be crossrail West Anglia - possibly Enfield & Chingford services Great Northern - possibly Welwyn & Hertford services MML to St Albans - part of Thameslink Chiltern - not unless the "Chiltern Metro" proposals ever happen. Great Western - will be Crossrail, possibly West Ealing - Greenford could be LO branded SWT - maybe the Hounslow & Kingston loops and Chessington services. Southern - remains to be seen Southeastern - maybe the local services to Dartford & Hayes |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
"Matthew Dickinson" wrote:
I wonder how many other lines would be suitable for "London Overground" branding anyway? West Anglia - possibly Enfield & Chingford services Good idea. Great Northern - possibly Welwyn & Hertford services Really should have happened already. FCC to St Albans - part of Thameslink Good Idea SWT - maybe the Hounslow & Kingston loops and Chessington services. Southern - remains to be seen Southeastern - maybe the local services to Dartford & Hayes Some services, rather than whole lines, I suspect. -- Andrew "She plays the tuba. It is the only instrument capable of imitating a distress call." |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
On Feb 18, 5:28*pm, Matthew Dickinson
wrote: On 12 Feb, 19:13, Mizter T wrote: On 12 Feb, 18:43, "Andrew Heenan" wrote: "Mizter T" wrote ... Anyway I didn't really mean to focus so much on the issues surrounding the oncoming ELLX link to Clapham Jn - I think it's great that it's happening, it completes the picture of an orbital route around London - but I don't think it's great because it'll look all neat and tidy on a map, I think it's great because it'll be genuinely useful. I agree and all credit to Boris for bringing Ken's dream to reality. And I'm not just being snarky; Ken saw the potential of the North London Line in his GLC days, and has carried on recognizing that underfunded inner London routes can be developed for Londoners, and fighting for funding. Boris has done well not to cut this like he has cut all the other projects - but he needs to prove himself by focussing on the next lines to be sequestered. As Ken would have done. Indeed, as Ken announced he would do. I absolutely agree about Ken and indeed I've made much the same point in the past - Livingstone has long had a passionate involvement in London's transport, and he brought this heritage to the table on becoming Mayor which led on to projects such as the ELLX and the London Overground takeover. In other words this was his doing, no doubt! TfL never got hold of Southern's Metro routes but we can at least be thankful that their fingerprints are all over the franchise requirements (more staffed and improved stations, more services etc) thanks to lobbying by TfL under the old Mayor. Afraid I can't really see Boris keenly pursuing the strategy of transferring custodianship of London rail routes over to TfL. I suppose it's possible that some things could change when the planets next align themselves, i.e. when the Mayor and the government are of the same hue (in 2010), though nothing in particular appears to be on the agenda in that regard.- I wonder how many other lines would be suitable for "London Overground" branding anyway? LTS - No real distinct services Great Eastern - will be crossrail West Anglia - possibly Enfield & Chingford services Great Northern - possibly Welwyn & Hertford services MML to St Albans *- part of Thameslink Chiltern - not unless the "Chiltern Metro" proposals ever happen. Great Western - will be Crossrail, possibly West Ealing - Greenford could be LO branded SWT - maybe the Hounslow & Kingston loops and Chessington services. Southern - remains to be seen Southeastern - maybe the local services to Dartford & Hayes Like the DC lines Euston - Watford Junction, I would imagine that any services that transfer to TfL will be the ones that run mainly inside the current zones, maybe with a terminus just outside. So Southern is likely to be those running to Caterham, Epsom, Croydon plus the various Victoria - Crystal Palace - London Bridge / Beckenham etc (i.e. those formed mainly of 455s), For SWT I would add the Hampton court and maybe even the Woking / Guildford locals. For Chiltern, the services via Amersham might qualify (they are effectively part of a joint service already). Thameslink I would imagine that once services have settled down, TfL might take over the inner suburban routes, even if just branding and paying for evening services. |
East London Line phase 2b to Clapham Jn is GO!
On 12 Feb, 19:13, Mizter T wrote:
I wonder how many other lines would be suitable for "London Overground" branding anyway? LTS - No real distinct services Great Eastern - will be crossrail West Anglia - possibly Enfield & Chingford services Great Northern - possibly Welwyn & Hertford services MML to St Albans - part of Thameslink Chiltern - not unless the "Chiltern Metro" proposals ever happen. Great Western - will be Crossrail, possibly West Ealing - Greenford could be LO branded SWT - maybe the Hounslow & Kingston loops and Chessington services. Southern - remains to be seen Southeastern - maybe the local services to Dartford & Hayes Plus Orpington (both via Grove Park & Herne Hill). The Sevenoaks services will of course be Thameslink. -- Current nearest station: Shortlands |
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